Classic & Vintage - 87/88 3Rensho Super Record Export TT - my Thanksgiving project

Well, last night I managed to tweak my knee well enough to think it best if I didn't ride today. So instead, I cleaned up the 3Rensho TT frame that I picked up on Tuesday. Here's what I know about it so far:

Andrew Muzi at Yellow Jersey informs me it is either a late 87 or early 88 frameset, painted in the Team colors of that era (which team, I don't know). Frame takes a 24" front wheel, 700c rear, recessed mount brakes. Campagnolo vertical dropouts in the rear, over the BB cable routing. Fillet brazed frame other than the BB which is lugged, with a gusset reinforcement between the chain stays. I have been unable to find any photos online of a frame exactly like this one. The closest I've found has been over on the Yellow Jersey website of a custom built 87 frame with a curved top tube and lugs at the headtube.

Paint is in over all good condition. There is some chipping along the drive side chain stay, and behind the front forks, around the rear brake cable guides, and a few others here and there. I took down some of the surface rust with a brass brush on the dremel this morning, and appears all issues are on the surface only. I also applied a coat of wax to the entire frame, which really brought back the depth of the color, espeically the blue. Good news is that the headset and bottom bracket are both in good condition. Headset appears to be a C-Record, BB is Record as well. I slipped my Super Record crank arms over the spindle and appears that they seated nicely. There had been a shimano 105 crank on it, but appears there was no damange to the spindle due to such.

I am picking up the front wheel from the seller tomorrow morning. After that, not sure what to do with it. I have some SunTour parts, and a Super Record group I could build it with. As low as the head tube is, I think I'd either have to put bullhorn style bars on it, or just conclude I'm always going to ride on the hoods of any drop bar I'd put on. Honestly, after cleaning the frame, giving it a good once over, I'm not sure if I'm 'feeling' this bike. I jumped on the chance to pick it up because I didn't want it to become a fixie (there were 3Rensho perusit track frames as it is), and simply because how cool are funny bike frames! However, I think I am, and always will be, a sucker for lugs. Perhaps this one would be better served in the hands of a 3Rensho affectonado who will restore her to original. But for now, at least I can treat you all to some better photos!

a few people have asked about the size of the frame. By my best measurements, it has a 56.5cm ctc seat tube and about a 59cm virtual top tube.

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/3Rensho1.jpg
as photoed in CraigsList ad. I'm getting the front wheel tomorrow, didn't buy the rear.

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1321.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1322.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1323.jpg
Cleaned up and polished.

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1324.jpg
Shifters. Not sure what to make of the 3Rensho Dura-Ace AX right lever. Aftermarket? Orginal?

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1329.jpg
She's not pristine, but all of this is surface only and I treated with some rust inhibitor and waxed to protect. Decided against touchup paint for now.

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1334.jpg
the only "Lug" on the frame. Also, amazing how pretty the paint is after a coat of wax.

Nice frame , I read somewhere that they are more confortable than they look. You could probably get back a good part of your frame's purchase price with the shifters , I know I paid my frame with the 3Rensho parts that came with it!

There are no Ducks in the pics. We need Ducks. Not just any Ducks, but Mom Duck with baby Ducks trailing along.

Oh, and the frame is still really cool. I'm not sure exactly what to do with it, but it's really cool.

Thanks for saving it from an excrutiating conversion.

You want ducks? I should have stopped by the pond on my way home from last night's ride (the one that I think screwed up my knee) and snapped a few more photos. I took photos on the ride, but nothing worth sharing after I got home and looked at them.


Nice frame , I read somewhere that they are more confortable than they look. You could probably get back a good part of your frame's purchase price with the shifters , I know I paid my frame with the 3Rensho parts that came with it!

I guess I'll find out when I get it built up. The top tube is probably too long for me now that I've measured it. I'm all leg, and this bike has a lot of top tube. But, as the geometry of this thing is unlike anything I've ever encountered before, it may surprise me.

Hope the knee isn't serious. There is no good time for an injury.

I have to be over your way in the next couple of days. I'll take a drive down your street to get my duck fix.

It might well indeed be a surprise as to how comfy is when built. The question is what do you use it for after you finish building it up...... Still a nice, cool, and unique frame though.

If you're over this way, you have my phone number, drop me a call and you can come see the 3Rensho in person. As far as what to use it for, if it is "that" comfortable I may take it to a club ride for kicks. Otherwise, it'll share 'vintage ride time' duties with the Gazelle A-frame.

Not sure what I did to the knee. Felt a little strain coming off a stop in too low of gear on the ride, but that was on the back of the knee. Later last night I stepped out of the closet and then "BAM" the inside area of my knee just lit up on me. It's feeling 80% better today. I can feel it's not "right" yet, but isn't causing me pain.

I'll give a shout before I head that way.

Back of the knee sounds like possible saddle adjustment issues. Inside of the knee, not so much, and more serious. Hopefully just a tweak and a few days rest will take care of it.

I absolutley promise you will be the only 3Rensho funny bike in the parking lot at RBM before the ride starts!

You going to the Swapmeet down in Deep Ellum Saturday? I went to the first one, not overwhelming, but not a bad way to kill an hour of two.

Back to the game..............

mmmm Duck confit. . .

Nice. I would post it over on the fixie forum just to make them salivate. Some hipster would pay you mucho dollars for that bike, but I commend your nobility in preserving it.

my housemate has a 1987 Aero Team Miyata...very similar geometry, even a similar paint job, equally beautiful...the biggest difference i can tell is internal rear brake cable routing, but not a big difference:

http://www.miyatacatalogs.com/2007/12/mitaya-catalog-1987.html
(a bit down the page, can't directly link to the image)

it came with some DA components (headset and seatpost), and after a month or so stint as a fixed gear, he gave it a 600 rear/DA front, Sakae crankset and BB, and laced his own 24 spoke 24" front wheel. a great, very unique, and superaero build ;)

your 3Rensho should be an amazing build, can't wait to see it finished!

That is closer than any 3Rensho I've seen. Probably I have right now is that I don't have a seatpost that'll fit. I'm fairly sure that it takes a 26.8, I have a steel 26.6 that I used for taking photos, but A) it's really heavy and B) I'd rather not collapse the collar of the seat tube any more than I did for the photos. I didn't tighten the bolt as much as I would had I planned to sit on a saddle on top of that seat post. As far as builds, guessing I'll go with my Campagnolo super record group. Though if the SunTour Superbe crank I have fits well on the campagnolo spindle, I may go that route.

Anyone have an early cyclone or superbe short cage derialleur they would trade for a near mint condition Cyclone GT?

The nice thing about this frame is that once you have the basic components you can plug and play in several different configurations.

For example, you could get one of the simple SS conversion kits and turn it into a single speed. Or, set it up "time trial" style witha single front chainring, say 48t or 50t, and a cluster of your choice in back.

Here is a pick of my former Nashbar Aero Sprint for inspiration.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_2746a.jpg

One day I too will own a 3 Rensho! Then the world will bow to my power! BruuuuHoHahaha!
Nice bike :thumb:

The plot thickens! I picked up the front wheel this morning. Rim is unabled, aero profile, tubular. 24" Vittora Juniors tubular tire (unfortunately it appears there is a cut in the sidewall which is producing a buldge). Hub was horribly annodized on the outside, but spins like a million bucks. Hub looks fimilar, but can't quite match it up. Phil Wood is a possibility, or a Hi-E?! In any case, it's laced radially, 24 spoke. I've already gone to work cleaning up the hub, center area polished up beautifully, but getting the flanges cleaned up is going to take a lot more work unless I unlace the wheel, which I'm not inclinded to do. Photos coming in a moment.

Ok, front wheel photos. A hub ID would be great. I'm not holding out hope someone will ID the rim though.

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1339.jpg
full wheel

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1341.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1342.jpg
Hub closeup (pre clean up)

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1343.jpg
Here's where it stands now. Have to let my fingers rest some before going at it again. Dremel is too big to get in between the spokes (may have to ask for that snake extension thingy for Christmas), but the outside I've hit with the brass and nylon brush a little, as well as a polishing pad. Haven't touched the skewers yet.

Looks like an early American Classic hub to me.........I've got some like it. The QR is exactly the same. Judging by the early hub and finish /profile of the rim I'm gonna guess the rim is an Araya.

Whats the sticker on the rim say? Super hard anodized?

The only decal on the rim is from the shop it was bought from. I think you are right about the rim being an Araya. Likely a Araya ADX4.

Thanks for the suggestion of the Am.Classic. If the skewer matches, then you're probably right.

edit:

Haha, yeah, the hub is American Classic. I had done a search on VeloBase, knew they looked like an American brand, checked out the Phil and the Hi-E, but neglected to look at the American Classic listing. This is why I made the visual list feature on the site, should learn to use my own features...

Ah, more good news. Found a shop selling a couple of different 24" tubular tires! *sign of relief*

I second the notion of it maybe being an Araya rim - I have a track tubular rim that looks identical (except that it is unmachined, of course.)

The cut in the tire sidewall:
http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1346.jpg

Threw a few parts on for fun. May swap over to my Super Record group, the Cyclone GT just looks so out of place and I don't think the chain I have will play all that well with it unless I stay on the small ring (it was shortened for my Gazelle running the Super Record derailleurs).

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1347.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1348.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1349.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1350.jpg

(no comments on how a TT doesn't need a 12-28 cluster either. :p)

Well, the 3Rensho did help me solve one mystery. Confirmed that half the spare wheels/hubs I have around here are actually 126mm spacing and not 120mm as I had for some reason thought! Its a lot easier to measure the width between rear dropouts than it is between the locknuts of a hub in a built wheel!

Also think I'm going to pull the suntour stuff and go with the Super Record parts. The more I think about the chain I've got to put on it the more I think that's the better plan. The shifters may be a bit out of place, but I'm not going to swap on a set of campy levers on when I already have the shimano ones installed.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/Carnac.jpg

2 hours 27 minutes.

( and the question is: How long will it take Jon to decide to keep this bike after putting
on a Super Record gruppo).

So nice.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/Carnac.jpg

May a Shimano derailer nest in your shorts.

-Kurt

:roflmao2: :lol: :roflmao:

First I need to locate a 26.8mm seatpost. Perferably borrow one so I can see if this frame even fits me! Not to mention deal with that front tire. (surprised no one has commented on it, I guess that means everyone is agreement it needs to be replaced)

I think I have the Cyclone RD you were asking about, but after reading through the posts, it sounds like you might have changed your mind.

I think I have the Cyclone RD you were asking about, but after reading through the posts, it sounds like you might have changed your mind.

Yeah, just for Marty I threw the Campy S.Record on it. Amazingly this bike actually has shorter chainstays than my Gazelle AB-Frame which is no relaxed rear triangle either. Guess the vertical drops allow for that to some degree over the short horizontal drops on the Gazelle. I discovered this as I hooked up the chain and on the small-small combo the chain was still very slack. I'm going to have to take some links out if I want to run this in the small chainring at all.

Marty, start your timer...

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1352.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1353.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1356.jpg

People are going to hate me for saying this.....

But you should ditch the campy HS and get your hands on a Tange aerodynamics HS. I had a shogun TT bike 700/24 and managed to track one down. The style along with dia compe aero G brakes, went to perfect with the funnybike geo.

and then:

http://www.43bikes.com/fortythree/araya-web/ax-group.jpg

SR fits it like a glove. I wouldn't use anything else.

-Kurt

You know, if I keep it, I probably would go with a shimano Dura-Ace AX group. Maybe other than the cranks, unless I could get my hands on as set of the reducers to run other pedals. There was even a member who posted nearly a complete group recently in the ForTrade thread. It is after all a Japanese built frame, I wouldn't hesitate to run a Shimano or SunTour group on it. And the Dura-Ace AX style brakes would look perfectly in place on this frame. Later today I'm going to try to get the brakes hooked up (and obviously some sort of bar/stem combo on it. I need to see if the 26.6 seatpost I have can be clamped down firm enough to hold without damaging the frame. I'm nearly positive the frame takes a 26.8. CV-6 sent me a Regal saddle I can mount on it for a test ride, or what I should do is put the Regal on my Gazelle for the ride tomorrow and put the Rolls on the 3Rensho. Decisions decisions. Get a couple frames and enough spare parts around and one can spend an entire winter playing musical bike parts between them. :)

Well, scratch that idea of taking a test ride today. Remember that cut in the side wall I posted? Well it ruptured. Apparently at about 10am this morning as my wife informs me, it woke her up. Tore about an inch hole along the sidewall, and then split the tread across the the other side.

Also, I just set the 3Rensho up next to my 56cm ctt, and amazingly, if the top tube of the 3rensho was straight, the Fuji and 3Rensho would have nearly identical geometry. Seat tube is slightly longer, 3rensho's chain stays are about a half inch shorter, slightly lower BB, but the head tube lines up perfectly. So I guess once you factor in a little stem rise, some bullhorn style bars, one wouldn't be quite as stretched as I had previously thought on this bike.

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1357.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1358.jpg

http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1359.jpg

(guess it was better this happened at home than out on the road...)
http://thecuda.com/3Rensho/tn_IMG_1361.jpg

Nice work, what wax do you use?

Nice work, what wax do you use?

good ole fashioned turtle wax. "super hard shell" I've got a can that I've been using to wax frames since I bought my first Gazelle. Probably still got 95% of the can left! :lol:

Let me ask a slightly OT question. I have a line on a Schwinn Prologue funny bike frame. Where can I get a fork?

Thanks

RFC

Let me ask a slightly OT question. I have a line on a Schwinn Prologue funny bike frame. Where can I get a fork?

Thanks

RFC

Other than getting really lucking and coming across one or having one custom made, can't think of many options. I would not have bit on this frame had it not had both the fork and front wheel. 24" wheels / rims are still made so no wheel wouldn't be a deal breaker, but no fork, you're in for a long search or getting to know a frame builder.

good ole fashioned turtle wax. "super hard shell" I've got a can that I've been using to wax frames since I bought my first Gazelle. Probably still got 95% of the can left! :lol:

Careful storing Turtle Wax'ed machines in any non-climate controlled area (such as an enclosed, outdoor shed). Stuff has a tendency to mold into white spots. Granted, you can remove this white fuzz with a flick of a rag, but it is a nag nevertheless:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/alyeska8.jpg

-Kurt

Got a personal introduction to the 3Rensho today. It looks even better in person, and the pearl white is really nice. I give it at least two more days until he adds it to the permanent stash. He has already ordered the replacement tire for the front, after all.

It was the 2nd coolest frame set I had the pleasure to run across today.....:innocent:

Kurt, thanks for the warning. I wonder if it has anything to do with the humidity ya'll have to deal with down your way in addition to the tempatures of an enclosed space such as an outdoor shed. Anyways, if you have any better products you've discovered I'm all ears.

tx, you post pictures of that frame yet? Or do you just want to be a tease like bigbossman in his new frame thread. ;)

Lastly, to get back on topic a tad, I threw a 100mm stem and some flipped drop bars on the frame tonight to get an idea of how low a set of Nitto style bullhorns would put me. Looks like they're only going to be a little lower than my Fuji puts me when I'm down in the drops. Granted, I don't tend to stay in the drops on the Fuji for long periods of time, but does continue to confirm that the bike won't put the rider in as extreme of a position as one would initially think. I do need to locate a new post for it if I intend to ride it for a while. The 26.6 I have just fits too loose to use. I'm not going to risk any damage to the frame due to improper sized seat post.

You want ducks? I should have stopped by the pond on my way home from last night's ride (the one that I think screwed up my knee) and snapped a few more photos. I took photos on the ride, but nothing worth sharing after I got home and looked at them.



I guess I'll find out when I get it built up. The top tube is probably too long for me now that I've measured it. I'm all leg, and this bike has a lot of top tube. But, as the geometry of this thing is unlike anything I've ever encountered before, it may surprise me.

I lived in Dallas when the Vietnamese refugees were relocated there, after the collapse of the South Viet Nam government. Within about two weeks, we had no ducks or geese (or, I suspect, small dogs or cats) left in my neighborhood.

In Viet Nam, there was no such thing as an ornamental animal.

count on the seat tube to give you an accurate measurement of the frame. you have to use your long level to construct a virtual top tube, and it will be considerably shorter than the severely sloping actual top tube.

I have a track 24" tubular and a 24" juniores tubular somewhere if you cannot find one to work.

count on the seat tube to give you an accurate measurement of the frame. you have to use your long level to construct a virtual top tube, and it will be considerably shorter than the severely sloping actual top tube.

I have a track 24" tubular and a 24" juniores tubular somewhere if you cannot find one to work.

Yeah, after putting the frame up next to my similar seat-tube sized Fuji I feel much better about the length of the bike. That 56.5 seat vs 59cm virtual top tube is a deceiving since I took that at a 90 degree angle from the center of the locknut of the headset. However once putting a stem and the flipped bars on, it looks no longer than the fuji in the reach in length, just a little lower. And I don't have the fuji set up all that agressively (for a modern carbon bike, I'm sure ya'll would like it better if I had the Gazelle set up behind it, but the fuji is what I rode this morning, thus sitting out already, and what had the closest seat tube).

edit:

just came across the next lead in the history of this frameset. The shop name "Business Cycles" is located both on the chainstay and the front wheel. I've tracked this to the Business Cycles of Miami, FL. Seems this bike is a long way from it's original home.

Took the bike over to Richardson Bikemart this morning to see if they could confirm the seatpost size. Looks like 26.8 is it, but probably going to need to be taken down to David at Southwest Frameworks for a quick seat tube reaming as it appears there's a few burrs or something in the tube making for a tight fit. I have to take the Serotta down to him in the next couple weeks so I'll do it then. While there the frame, dressed "to the nines" with the Campagnolo Super Record, drew quite the crowd of employees and customers alike. :thumb:

just came across the next lead in the history of this frameset. The shop name "Business Cycles" is located both on the chainstay and the front wheel. I've tracked this to the Business Cycles of Miami, FL. Seems this bike is a long way from it's original home.

You mean the 3Rensho is one of John Dacey's old machines, eh? He'd be amused to hear about that. Can you get me some photos?

-Kurt

Took the bike over to Richardson Bikemart this morning to see if they could confirm the seatpost size. Looks like 26.8 is it, but probably going to need to be taken down to David at Southwest Frameworks for a quick seat tube reaming as it appears there's a few burrs or something in the tube making for a tight fit. I have to take the Serotta down to him in the next couple weeks so I'll do it then. While there the frame, dressed "to the nines" with the Campagnolo Super Record, drew quite the crowd of employees and customers alike. :thumb:


Yea, they threw the Rossin up on the rack yesterday while I wandered around after getting my seat clamp bolt. When I was leaving there was a guy out front getting on an awesome Panasonic DX.

Seems it's cool vintage and classic weekend at the ol' LBS. Too bad jack wasn't there.

i love that 3rensho! it sounds like you've decided on bullhorns and that's good. drops just don't work on these frames IMO. here is a picture of my funny TT bike: someday i'll post some more on here, since c&v is my new favorite BF subforum :-)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8523/att1026063dz3.jpg

Sweet Pinny!

Please do post any more pics you have, and any other bikes as well!

Welcome to the madness.

My new 3Rensho

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_GD0mJI-y4Ic/STMRvNOT2aI/AAAAAAAAAc0/2x6-43By4sE/s800/IMG_3300.JPG
San Rensho with friends...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_GD0mJI-y4Ic/STMRiUt8beI/AAAAAAAAAd0/0O29DyUc74w/s800/IMG_3305.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_GD0mJI-y4Ic/STMRPe3o89I/AAAAAAAAAdg/EDfXviXUbwI/s800/IMG_3313.JPG
Elephant decal, cyclone decal

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_GD0mJI-y4Ic/STMRL49720I/AAAAAAAAAb4/ThEDlDEh-u8/s800/IMG_3315.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_GD0mJI-y4Ic/STMR0P9YIwI/AAAAAAAAAc8/M6KdiWB0RFc/s800/IMG_3298.JPG

anomly, congrats on snaggin one. That superbe / sugino crank and derailleur(s) looks oddly fimilar against that blue paint and super record export decal. :lol: The rest of your collection looks very nice as well. :)

and delicious, how funny you should post your Pinarello with Mavic on it. Just earlier today I thought how crazy the 3Rensho would look with that crank and some of the Mavic derailleurs. The Mavic stuff looks right at home on the Prologo, perhaps slightly less so on a 3Rensho.