Folding Bikes - Newb Advice

Seriously looking at picking up a folder and using it as my daily ride. So far, just in looking online, reading comments here and comparing the different models, I'm pretty sold on a Downtube for the cost and convenience of being able to upgrade over time with pretty standard parts.

I've looked at some of the Dahon line (need to head to the local dealer to check out whats in stock) and like the Mu 24 (w/ the Dual Drive) and Speed TR (Dual Drive and hub generator).

If I get the Downtube, I would upgrade (slowly) to a Dual Drive and front hub generator. Looks like it would work out to be about the same $$ as the Mu or I could check out the Mu and upgrade to Dahon's generator hub. Folded size isn't too important-I might use the folder on the bus occasionally or toss it in the trunk if I'm getting a ride from a friend.

Any thoughts?

If you are relatively confident regarding what you want, then I would just get the finished product -- probably cheaper unless you do a lot of shopping around and do your own work.

You seem very fixed on the Dual Drive. Any reason why? I found the weight penalty to not be worth the benefit. I actually prefer a front derailleur or Capreo setup to achieve the desired the gear range.

You seem very fixed on the Dual Drive. Any reason why? I found the weight penalty to not be worth the benefit. I actually prefer a front derailleur or Capreo setup to achieve the desired the gear range.

A Capreo hub and skewer weigh just over a 1lb .. a Dual Drive hub, just over 2lbs.. the gear range of your 53/39 9-26 Capreo setup is 392% .. A relatively conventional Dual Drive running a 53t / 11-32 yields a 537% range ... with a 20" (460" diameter tire, like a Stelvio), you would have a gear inch range of 27 to 106 vs 22 to 118 .... that could be significant depending on the projected use of the bike.. since I own both a Reach Racer with a Capreo and a TSR with a Dual Drive, I can comment that I haven't found this 1lb penalty at the rear wheel to be that significant while on the road.. my times over my 20 mile runs are virtually identical... then, there's the value/convenience of the Dual Drive system which cannot be ignored, especially around town.. if you want the gear range, like the simplicity of a single front chainring the Sachs or Sram dual drive hubs are really tough to beat.

Yeah, the bike would be replacing my car and seeing some use pulling a trailer, so the higher gear range is a plus. I like the versatility-from what I understand about the DD, I could just use the 3 speed hub around the city on the flats and add in the gears when I hit the hills or load up the trailer. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that.

Just to stick my own two cents in...

I got my Dual Drive solely to achieve the gear range I needed for hills and towing (no front derailleur was available for my Swift), but I don't know if I'll have derailleurs on future bikes. The IGH is just generally nice.

Two things I like about it are the near-impossibility of damaging it during a commute and the usability of all 24 of the 3x8 speeds. Being able to shift while stopped is also nice, though not important enough to buy it for.

A Capreo hub and skewer weigh just over a 1lb .. a Dual Drive hub, just over 2lbs.. the gear range of your 53/39 9-26 Capreo setup is 392% .. A relatively conventional Dual Drive running a 53t / 11-32 yields a 537% range ... with a 20" (460" diameter tire, like a Stelvio), you would have a gear inch range of 27 to 106 vs 22 to 118 .... that could be significant depending on the projected use of the bike.. since I own both a Reach Racer with a Capreo and a TSR with a Dual Drive, I can comment that I haven't found this 1lb penalty at the rear wheel to be that significant while on the road.. my times over my 20 mile runs are virtually identical... then, there's the value/convenience of the Dual Drive system which cannot be ignored, especially around town.. if you want the gear range, like the simplicity of a single front chainring the Sachs or Sram dual drive hubs are really tough to beat.

There you go again messing things up with facts and stuff :p

There you go again messing things up with facts and stuff :p

haha... SC, If we were competing in the Olympic bicycle toss, I'd be with you 100% on the weight issue.. :thumb:

I will add that folded size ends up being more important over the long haul, in my experience, for an everyday utility bike. As well as the ability to be bagged quickly. That is, if you really plan on bringing it with you to a lot of locations and on a daily basis, I found that plans change or things "happen" such that the smaller fold comes in handy. Mind you -- and since you read through the forum you already know this -- there are tradeoffs from doing so. In your shoes, I would spend the effort to test ride as much as possible before plunking money on a setup with the Dual Drive and hub generator.

P.S. If it helps, my personal experiences with the Dual Drive were not bad at all. With regards to finding replacement parts, you should search the Bike Friday YAK archives for posts from John S. Allen on the topic.

The problem is that I am still living in a city that is slowly making the switch from a recreational market to a more balanced one in regards to bikes. We only have one dealer with folding bikes, the Dahons. I'll test out the Dahons they carry. The Downtube has the 30 day trial period and is well within budget, so I can easily afford to test it out.

The dual drive isn't that heavy. It is a very good and efficient gearing system for is pricing point. I would have thought the TR would give you more versatility in the long-term. I've test ridden this model and found it to be a very robust ride. Even though it's slightly heavier the gearing range compensates for this and the bike can really shift in the higher gears. Hills of course no problem at the lower range. A Downtube is a good starter bike and ideal for moderate upgraded but might cost more to add these components in the long-term. Also less hassle buying it complete and pre-made up front.

The dual drive isn't that heavy. It is a very good and efficient gearing system for is pricing point. I would have thought the TR would give you more versatility in the long-term. I've test ridden this model and found it to be a very robust ride. Even though it's slightly heavier the gearing range compensates for this and the bike can really shift in the higher gears. Hills of course no problem at the lower range. A Downtube is a good starter bike and ideal for moderate upgraded but might cost more to add these components in the long-term. Also less hassle buying it complete and pre-made up front.

I'm thinking that perhaps my negative impression with the DualDrive was from an older (2004) model. I just got a 2008 Dahon MuP24 off Craigslist (to give as a Christmas present). The new DualDrive looks different and feels lighter than the version I had. I stand corrected and will update my bias meter.:o

I believe that ICE, Moulton, and Pacific all sell 9-32 Capreo systems. You don't get the gradual gear steps, but you do get the range. You also get some additional metal. Not sure what it comes out to weight-wise.

I believe that ICE, Moulton, and Pacific all sell 9-32 Capreo systems. You don't get the gradual gear steps, but you do get the range. You also get some additional metal. Not sure what it comes out to weight-wise.

http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/trikes/features.htm#gears

I'm thinking that perhaps my negative impression with the DualDrive was from an older (2004) model. I just got a 2008 Dahon MuP24 off Craigslist (to give as a Christmas present). The new DualDrive looks different and feels lighter than the version I had. I stand corrected and will update my bias meter.:o

With the caveat that the Dual Drive isn't exactly on top of my list of things to monitor, I don't believe that any substantive changes were made to the Dual Drive in that time. I think that there is a lot of uncertainty with respect to maintaining and setting up the system. Consequently, there are more poorly running DDs out there than expected.

I'm thinking that perhaps my negative impression with the DualDrive was from an older (2004) model. I just got a 2008 Dahon MuP24 off Craigslist (to give as a Christmas present). The new DualDrive looks different and feels lighter than the version I had. I stand corrected and will update my bias meter.:o

Hey Alan how are you? Hope you had a lovely Thanksgiving :)

Dual Drive aside, how is Dahon's Mu line in general? They had a Mu P8 at the LBS and they could get the dynohub and lace it on for me.

Dual Drive aside, how is Dahon's Mu line in general? They had a Mu P8 at the LBS and they could get the dynohub and lace it on for me.

Well, I have a Mu P24 (with DualDrive :p) sitting in my living room right now. I've just taken a 3 mile ride with it, so take my comments for what they're worth.

The overall build quality, fit and finish look very good. The components are excellent too. (I have gotten to like the Dahon seatpost pump quite a bit.) The fold is a little clumsy, with the handlebars between the wheels, you have to fiddle with it to not interfere with the fold. But once folded, a magnet holds the wheels together and the package stands by itself. You can push it on its wheels with an extended seat post. Since I own mostly 16" folded bikes, the fold is larger than my other bikes.

The cockpit length/height is very good for me at 6', with enough room for a taller person. The 20" wheels ride very nicely and is quite stable.

So, overall, it's earned a good first impression from me.