General Cycling Discussion - Car/Bicycle Experiment Results

The last two weeks, I have conducted three experiments with cars. My first experiment was going under the speed limit, 21 mph in a 35 mph zone, while approaching a street to the right. I circled the blocks on both my bicycle and car at the same speed. On the bicycle, 60% of the cars tore around me to make a right turn, right in front of me. In the car, 20% of the cars did the same thing.

My second experiment was going the speed limit, which was 30 mph, in both the car and bicycle on a 2 lane road. On the bicycle, 72% of the people tore around me. In the car, 16% passed me. On the bicycle, I took up the entire lane.

My third experiment was exceeding the speed limit. It was a 30 mph speed limit, and I was going 40 mph (it is down hill). On the bicycle, 48% passed me. In the car, 8% passed me.

I conducted these experiments by continuously circling the blocks around and around until 25 episodes occurred of each of the three experiments.

My conclusion:
I think the 2nd and 3rd experiments are alarming! To me, they show how much cyclists are disliked my automobile drivers. The third experiments show that cars were mostly satisfied exceeding the speed limit, only if it was an automobile in front of them. If it was a bicycle, they disliked it being in front of them, even though they were exceeding the speed limit. You have to wonder why they have such an aversion toward us.

I've got a feeling that when gasoline prices shoot skyhigh that cyclist won't seem like a bunch of 'death wishers'. :D

I really think they get the most upset at us when we are going faster than the speed limit. On my old commute route when I lived in North Seattle the last stretch of my ride was a 1/2 mile long down hill spin and I was always at speed limit or slightly above it about 3 blocks into it. When I am riding the speed limit I always take the lane. Every morning someone would have to speed by me to pass and most times slow down to the speed limit when they got past me. Still do not understand it.

When I am riding the speed limit I always take the lane. Every morning someone would have to speed by me to pass and most times slow down to the speed limit when they got past me. Still do not understand it.

That happens with me too. I can easily hit 50MPH on the main descent off the plateau where I live. The speed limit is actually 35MPH. There are no shoulders so I of course take the lane. I'd have claimed it anyways. The road is two lanes on either side. Many cars do in fact change lanes to pass me only to pull in front of me and brake to below my speed.

i have always maintained that the problem with inattentive car drivers is: they don't realize how fast we are actually going on our bikes.

how small minded does one have to be to rev an engine to prove that their pedal foot can be pushed down with such force as to accelerate past a bike...

and lastly: where is it written that on a two lane road, a car can't slow up a bit when a car passes from the other direction to avoid having two cars & a bike all on the same plane.

Right, I'm not sure it's necessarily active dislike, but just the presumption that if you're in a car, guy X in front of you is on a bike, you should probably be going about 1.5x his speed. It doesn't matter what your speedometer says, let alone the Speed Limit sign.

This happens to me all the time. People give me plenty of room, and appear courteous, they just assume that I must be going really slow, when in fact, they're significantly exceeding the speed limit.

I for one don't understand why drivers want to pass cyclists so badly but then again I'm also a cyclist. I was out with my wife driving to see the annual tulip bloom earlier today and we wound up behind a group of four female cyclists. The section of road was a no-passing zone and also fairly narrow so it was not safe to pass them. My wife was driving and we maintained about four bike lengths distance behind until it was safe to pass. Maybe it's just me but I like watching cyclists ride. I of course was quite happy to sit back there to admire them and their bikes but of course was smart enough not to convey those very thoughts to my wife. ;)

this past week i was riding around my house and i pulled up to a stop sign along side a dude in his honda civic race rocket (you know the ones i mean). well we both pulled away from the stop sign at the same time but he had to prove to me that he was a tough guy so he sped ahead of me...only problem is that its a 40km/h zone which had a cop it in so he had to slow to 40 while i passed him at 50...the cops had seen the whole thing and on my way back they stopped me and had a good laugh about it. (i thought they were gonna give me a ticket for something haha)

the cops had seen the whole thing and on my way back they stopped me and had a good laugh about it. (i thought they were gonna give me a ticket for something haha)

Right now they're probably have a grand time laughing over the replays from the dashboard camera of you pulling ahead of the riceburner with the coffee-can muffler that makes loud farting noises. :D

I really think they get the most upset at us when we are going faster than the speed limit.

Yes they do. To me it seems their ego is threatened because a cyclist can keep up with them and he/she doesn't have all of that engine power. It makes them look small because they are having to use a machine and we are not. At least that's what it seems like to me!

I really think they get the most upset at us when we are going faster than the speed limit.

Of course they do!!! :D

A fat guy on a bicycle, going faster than my 200hp machine?? Of course he'll overtake.. this is funny bit its true..

Its the same thing with us cyclist... what do you do, when a kid on a BMX passes you when your riding you in your jersey and everything on $2000 dollar bike? you would try to chase the kid and try overtake. And tell ourselves, he's just a kid on a BMX. he's no match!! (I have nothing against BMX bikes, I ride BMX and do tricks when I was younger)..

I don't think its a hate thing.. its just normal people trying to show who's stronger, and who's not... :D :D :D..

You have to wonder why they have such an aversion toward us.

One word: bigotry. I've conducted some experiments of my own in different parts of Australia with some interesting (but hardly surprising) results. I have compared the treatment I receive from drivers in different Australian states (NSW, Qld, Vic, Tas, SA), both in urban areas and rural areas. I have concluded that in the areas that have high instances of other forms of bigotry (the recent Lonely Planet guide to Queensland warns travellers of the high levels of racism in that state), tend to treat cyclists a lot worse than the more enlightened parts of the country.

This would also explain why the same behaviour on the bike tends to draw a more negative reaction from drivers than the same behaviour on a bicycle.



I don't think its a hate thing.. its just normal people trying to show who's stronger, and who's not...


Why then, are they apparently not so keen to do this to a guy who's driving an "inferior" car to theirs?

Its the same thing with us cyclist... what do you do, when a kid on a BMX passes you when your riding you in your jersey and everything on $2000 dollar bike? you would try to chase the kid and try overtake. And tell ourselves, he's just a kid on a BMX. he's no match!! I picked up a co-worker on my tandem as part of last year's Bike to Work Week. On the way in, as a guy whizzed past us, my stoker asked "What was that?" (She's blind, and this is her way of participating in BTWW). I replied, "Oh, some guy in spandex on a skinny little bike just passed us." Suddenly I feel this surge of power from the stoker crank. We almost caught up with him before he turned off.

I really think they get the most upset at us when we are going faster than the speed limit. On my old commute route when I lived in North Seattle the last stretch of my ride was a 1/2 mile long down hill spin and I was always at speed limit or slightly above it about 3 blocks into it. When I am riding the speed limit I always take the lane. Every morning someone would have to speed by me to pass and most times slow down to the speed limit when they got past me. Still do not understand it.
I think that some drivers don't want a cyclist in front of them because they are afraid that the cyclist might be in danger if he/she falls in front of their car. They don't want to deal with the possibility of suddenly having someone on the ground in front of their car.

I'm NOT defending this train of thought - just trying to explain a mindset.

Drivers get really PO'd when they are stuck in traffic & you're riding right past them in the bike lane, especially when you pass them 3 or 4 times and they are stuck, then when they finally get moving they have to rev their engine as they pass you. You can usually tell by looking at the driver that they've never ridden on a bike (or get any other form of exercise). What we're dealing with is just plain ignorance. Some will actually look you right in the face & then cut in front of you anyways. You know they saw you, but they don't care, they are going to go anyways. Then they are mad when you yell at them!

I think that some drivers don't want a cyclist in front of them because they are afraid that the cyclist might be in danger if he/she falls in front of their car. They don't want to deal with the possibility of suddenly having someone on the ground in front of their car. I agree somewhat.

Although, I'm attentive and considerate to cyclists in front of me, I'm always a little relieved to pass them. I think having someone as "unprotected" as a cyclist in front of a driver, makes said driver anxious.

Cyclists are either passing the tin coffins when they're stuck in gridlock, or 'impeding' them when traffic is flowing freely. And most tin coffin operators have the misimpression that they actually do 'own the road'.... :rolleyes:

Drivers get really PO'd when they are stuck in traffic & you're riding right past them in the bike lane, especially when you pass them 3 or 4 times and they are stuck

I can tell you that this is absolutely true when I'm driving and stuck in traffic. Admittedly, I'm angry at myself because I'm not on my own bike. :)

I think that some drivers don't want a cyclist in front of them because they are afraid that the cyclist might be in danger if he/she falls in front of their car. They don't want to deal with the possibility of suddenly having someone on the ground in front of their car.

I'm NOT defending this train of thought - just trying to explain a mindset.

And you're right. I often think about that myself while riding. That was one thought that I had before I posted this.

I think that some drivers don't want a cyclist in front of them because they are afraid that the cyclist might be in danger if he/she falls in front of their car. They don't want to deal with the possibility of suddenly having someone on the ground in front of their car.

I'm NOT defending this train of thought - just trying to explain a mindset. Yup, that's probably what they're thinking, if even subconsciously. What I find remarkable about this thinking is that the converse apparently does not occur to the person thinking it. IOW, does someone passing you because s/he's worried about being behind you not think that you have as much reason to be worried about being behind her/him? I'm no more likely to fall in front of a car than a car is likely to do something dangerous in front of me. I know I'm in control of my vehicle. I can only trust and hope that someone in front of me is in control of hers/his.

I have been going downhill at about 50 mph(long, steep hill, which i earned because i climbed it first). The speed limit is 40 mph, i was in the right hand side of the right lane, almost riding on the white line. People were still passing me, and very rapidly. I can see two reasons: First, people do not want to be beaten by a bicycle. Secondly, I think that most people, as has been mentioned before, do not want to be responsible if the cyclist wipes out.

I have been going downhill at about 50 mph(long, steep hill, which i earned because i climbed it first). The speed limit is 40 mph, i was in the right hand side of the right lane, almost riding on the white line. People were still passing me, and very rapidly. I can see two reasons: First, people do not want to be beaten by a bicycle. Secondly, I think that most people, as has been mentioned before, do not want to be responsible if the cyclist wipes out.

Wow... you're braver than I! When I'm descending at those speeds, I claim the middle of the lane. This prevents people from passing me in the same lane and gives me room to float around if I need to in the curves. If cars need to pass me, they'll have to do so by changing lanes.

It was a nice straight decent about an 11-14% gradient over about .75 miles, otherwise I would have taken up one lane. I thought that my computer was BSing me, but it sure wasn't! I was mostly trying to avoid the gravel on the roadside.

I had a similar problem. Coming out of my highschool parking lot. I was going 20mph which is VERY reasonable for a parking lot. I pulled up to the stop sign that leads onto the street. A big Lexus SUV decides it can't wait for me to pull out so it nudges right up next to me. Roads clear. I take off next to the SUV and start to turn onto the little sidewalk leading to the trails. At this point I am not in the lane at all. The SUV takes it upon itself to REVVVV right next to me as I'm pulling off the road.


Another occasion.. I was traveling... 30mph down my road, which is a 25mph zone. SUV comes up (I have bad luck with SUVs...) and starts getting on thier horn and tailgating me... which is INCREDIBLY dangerous to the rider... any little tripup and *BAM* under a 4 ton vehicle.

Its frustraing to say the least.

Throw up the one finger salute in any such situation.

The Lexus got one >=)


My town is a very rural area with lots of Mid-Upperclass type lawyers, doctors, etc.

Not to say that all such people are like this, but a LOT of my town suffers from extreme social elitism which shows in such situations...

I think that some drivers don't want a cyclist in front of them because they are afraid that the cyclist might be in danger if he/she falls in front of their car. They don't want to deal with the possibility of suddenly having someone on the ground in front of their car.

Nope, that's not it. I don't see too many of them taking that logic at stop signs and so on.

The Lexus got one >=)


My town is a very rural area with lots of Mid-Upperclass type lawyers, doctors, etc.

Not to say that all such people are like this, but a LOT of my town suffers from extreme social elitism which shows in such situations...

Not really all that different to the lunatics in red sports-cars around here -- although I personally have more trouble with rednecks in utes.

However, if you're being tailgated, the best thing to do is slow right down (I'm talking something like 10km/h here). It's far more effective than merely flipping the bird. I can wait all day if necessary.

Well I wasn't infront of them at the time. I was going slow on the side of the road merging into a sidewalk path leading to the trails. Thats when they burned past me.

I think it's mainly because drivers don't trust a cyclist do obey the law and not do something stupid. When I'm driving my car, quite frequently I see cyclists do extremely stupid things like cutting across 3 lanes of traffic without even indicating making cars slam their brakes on to avoid running them over.

I know that none of us here would do something like that, but the car drivers just don't trust cyclists. They see just one do something illegal and their brain automatically thinks that all cyclists are the same. It's like that with most things, you don't notice something unless you're specifically looking for it. Someone in a car won't pay any attention to a cyclist riding along obeying the law, but if they see one run a red light, or cut someone off, then they'll start noticing and think how irresponsible we all are.

I think it's mainly because drivers don't trust a cyclist do obey the law and not do something stupid. When I'm driving my car, quite frequently I see cyclists do extremely stupid things like cutting across 3 lanes of traffic without even indicating making cars slam their brakes on to avoid running them over.

Yep, that's why I quit riding with the group that I used to. At a red stop light, they would take off and not wait until it turned green. I stayed and waited. Of course, I was left behind and they thought I was the stupid one. But ya, you are right. I almost hit a cyclist, with my car, that was riding at night and had no reflectors or lights. He made a u-turn across 4 lanes and I just caught a glimpse of him and slammed on my brakes. What an idiot!

I think it's mainly because drivers don't trust a cyclist do obey the law and not do something stupid. When I'm driving my car, quite frequently I see cyclists do extremely stupid things like cutting across 3 lanes of traffic without even indicating making cars slam their brakes on to avoid running them over.

I think what we're overlooking here is that cyclists aren't the only ones who do stupid things and break the law. In fact, cyclists don't do it anymore often than motorists or pedestrians. However, for some reason, cyclist breaches tend to get a lot more "coverage" than breaches from everyone else. I think that reason is bigotry.

However, for some reason, cyclist breaches tend to get a lot more "coverage" than breaches from everyone else. I think that reason is bigotry.

I guess one could call it that. I think it's somewhat human nature to judge an entire minority group of individuals based on the actions of a few when the few display a behaviour that stands out. Let's face it, we as cyclists are a minority despite the fact that we are already representative of a greater part of society. In the greater scheme of society, we're no different than anyone else but in the much more constrained world of traffic we're definately classified as a minority road user. As such, humans being what they are try and judge others based on what information they have. Since most road users have little information about cycling and cyclists, they can only form expectations based upon what they can see and identify with. This restricted amount of information to the general public is what does cyclists harm. In general, a cyclist behaving responsibly will not get much notice from the other road users. They will have little to no impact on other traffic. This is a good thing. However, a cyclist misbehaving will make a mental mark and a noticable impact.

Now this is where the minority factour comes into play. A motorist misbehaving will also make a mark upon another motorist but that other motorist can identify and is familiar with motorists and thus can counterbalance such impacts with the knowledge that not all motorists are like that. Afterall, he/she is also a motorist and he/she knows of other motorists that do not act in an offending manner.

Likewise, as cyclists we do the same thing when we regard other cyclists. However a motorist who is unfamiliar with cycling will prejudge any cyclist he/she sees and at best may be uncertain as to how to handle themselves around cyclists or at worst display animosity towards that cyclist based on a previous encounter with a bad cyclist. And along the same vein, I've encountered cyclists who don't understand motorists.

One could definately call this prejudice or bigotry... I guess. I don't know. I'm not trained to define and apply that terminology to societal behaviours but that's simply how I see things.

Those of us who are both cyclists and motorists understand that there is really no "us" and "them" because we do not regard ourselves in any kind of minority or majority and we understand that the actions of the few bad apples should not condemn the entire orchard.

So what's the solution? This is a social engineering problem. The solution I believe is to get the general public more involved (or at least interested/educated) with cycling. The more the general road user can identify with cyclists, the less interoperability problems will arise. Afterall, private car drivers have less problems (although some still exists) coexisting with commercial vehicle operators simply because they can identify better with them, are more accustomed to them and better understand how they behave. It's all going to boil down to education.

P.S. If none of this is making any sense, it's probably because I've written it at 0200 localtime.

Since most road users have little information about cycling and cyclists, they can only form expectations based upon what they can see and identify with. This restricted amount of information to the general public is what does cyclists harm. In general, a cyclist behaving responsibly will not get much notice from the other road users. They will have little to no impact on other traffic. This is a good thing. However, a cyclist misbehaving will make a mental mark and a noticable impact.

Unfortunately, in the real world, there will always be people who misbehave. While a lot of people like to preach about "bad cyclists give us all a bad name", there will always be bad cyclists, just as there will always be bad drivers or bad pedestrians -- unless we get nazi-like law enforcement to counter it. I act responsibly in traffic for pure safety reasons, yet I still get treated like crap on the roads. Only today I had four yobbos trying to pick a fight with me (good luck catching me in the traffic, dickheads!).

The way I see it, preaching about "bad cyclists" is not going to make this problem go away. We either deal with the bigotry, or learn to live with it. I've taken the latter option -- I'm now almost totally desensitised to driver abuse. I actually think this is quite sad. To regard such behaviour as normal, where it would not be tolerated in any other facet of life.



One could definately call this prejudice or bigotry... I guess. I don't know. I'm not trained to define and apply that terminology to societal behaviours but that's simply how I see things.

As I related in my first post in this thread, the anti-cyclist bigotry seems to be more common in areas where other forms of bigotry (be it racism, homophobia, whatever) are more prevalent. The problem is not with cyclists, just as it's not with the minority groups in the other forms of bigotry. The problem is with the bigots. To be honest, I'm really not convinced that education is the answer.

Here in Queensland, people have had just as long as the rest of the country to get over the other forms of bigotry, yet they seem to be slow learners. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to learn to "respect" cyclists. I think the solution here comes down to law-enforcement again. They may never learn to respect cyclists, but if they become accustomed to refraining from hurling abuse/projectiles at cyclists by other means, that is good enough for me.



Afterall, private car drivers have less problems (although some still exists) coexisting with commercial vehicle operators simply because they can identify better with them, are more accustomed to them and better understand how they behave. It's all going to boil down to education.


To be honest, I generally don't have that many problems with commercial vehicle operators, save for one or two bus companies, and a certain taxi fleet. Certainly trucks (the real ones, not the ute drivers with small penis syndrome) don't bother me a great deal. As I said in another thread, if driving was left only to the professionals, I don't think any of us would have the problems we do now. The problems arise when you get amateur morons, who haven't been required to look at the road rules for years (assuming they were ever required to know them, which is doubtful in itself), and who seem to think that bikes don't belong on public roads.

Again, if the laws about leaving enough room to pass cyclists (which exist in most parts of the world) were actually enforced, many of these problems would disappear. They don't have to enjoy giving us enough space, they just have to do it.



P.S. If none of this is making any sense, it's probably because I've written it at 0200 localtime.

It made perfect sense to me. Perhaps all of your posts should be written at that time! ;)

It is all because most everyone is in too much of a hurry. Drivers pass cyclist even if you are going as fast as they are because they are afraid a some point you are going to slow them down.
Trouble is most cyclist have the same syndrome. If all you worry about is your average speed then you are in the same boat as they are. The ' Must do every thing fast' attitude eats up your brain and makes it where you can not enjoy the present moment.

I think what we're overlooking here is that cyclists aren't the only ones who do stupid things and break the law. In fact, cyclists don't do it anymore often than motorists or pedestrians. However, for some reason, cyclist breaches tend to get a lot more "coverage" than breaches from everyone else. I think that reason is bigotry.

On another thread you chose to argue with me aboutr bikes seeming to have the right to break the law. Now when good exqamaples are given to you you call it bigotry. Make up you mind

On another thread you chose to argue with me aboutr bikes seeming to have the right to break the law.

No, what I said was that bicycles have no less right to break the law than anybody else. That only suggests cyclist can break the law if you argue that motorists, pedestrians, farnarklers and everyone else out there has the right to break the law. I leave that one for you to decide.



Now when good exqamaples are given to you you call it bigotry. Make up you mind

Good examples of what? All I said is that breaches of the law by different groups should receive equal "coverage". If this doesn't happen, it's simply bigotry on the part of the small-minded majority.

No, what I said was that bicycles have no less right to break the law than anybody else. That only suggests cyclist can break the law if you argue that motorists, pedestrians, farnarklers and everyone else out there has the right to break the law.

:rolleyes:

No one has the "right" to break the law thats the point.

Sometimes Chris I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguing :D

I think what we're overlooking here is that cyclists aren't the only ones who do stupid things and break the law. In fact, cyclists don't do it anymore often than motorists or pedestrians. However, for some reason, cyclist breaches tend to get a lot more "coverage" than breaches from everyone else. I think that reason is bigotry.

Here in the tourist area, the tourists will just walk out in front of cars, while looking right at them.

:rolleyes:

No one has the "right" to break the law thats the point.

So why then, if it isn't bigotry, do the breaches of one group get more coverage than the breaches of another?


Sometimes Chris I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguing :D

True. But there are worse things I could be doing. :p

It is all because most everyone is in too much of a hurry. Drivers pass cyclist even if you are going as fast as they are because they are afraid a some point you are going to slow them down.
Trouble is most cyclist have the same syndrome. If all you worry about is your average speed then you are in the same boat as they are. The ' Must do every thing fast' attitude eats up your brain and makes it where you can not enjoy the present moment.


Well part of cycling is the physical training and mental endurance that is built, so the attitude of "must keep this pace up" is much different from a cyclists mind than in a cagers.

Well part of cycling is the physical training and mental endurance that is built, so the attitude of "must keep this pace up" is much different from a cyclists mind than in a cagers.

Theres no difference. To ride faster you start taking chances. You start taking chances you increase the risk of crashes. Worse, with your nose against the stem you miss the ride. So whats the point of riding a bike? You could get the same workout on an excercise bike.

Theres no difference. To ride faster you start taking chances. You start taking chances you increase the risk of crashes. Worse, with your nose against the stem you miss the ride. So whats the point of riding a bike? You could get the same workout on an excercise bike. Oh, I dunno, maybe, getting somewhere? And IMHO, you take as much chance riding slow as riding fast. When you ride slow, the relative speed between you and other traffic is greater, giving other vehicles less time to react to your presence. Also, in a crash, a greater relative speed means greater impact. You simply mesh better with the rest of traffic the closer to car speed you can go.

Theres no difference. To ride faster you start taking chances. You start taking chances you increase the risk of crashes. Worse, with your nose against the stem you miss the ride. So whats the point of riding a bike? You could get the same workout on an excercise bike.



You could get the same workout but you wouldn't be out in the fresh air in real life.


I guess this is just an agree-to-disagree argument. There are many reasons for riding a bike, and many styles of riding. Personally, I take time for training rides, and time for cruising. Each to thier own.

I have nothing against anyone that rides fast. Enjoy! In fact I love watching The Tour. I just get a kick out of people in life with the go-fast mindset. In a hurry to go nowhere.

When you ride slow, the relative speed between you and other traffic is greater, giving other vehicles less time to react to your presence. Also, in a crash, a greater relative speed means greater impact. You simply mesh better with the rest of traffic the closer to car speed you can go.
I don't get your meaning here. Are you telling me you have less chance getting hit from behind by riding 30mph as 15mph? I believe it is wrong place at the wrong time. Like the orginal post said,cars are going to try to get around you even if you are going the speed limit.
The faster you ride the less time you have to react. I'd rather hit a van that pulled out in front of me at 15mph that 30mph.
The faster you ride the more likely you could crash from potholes, gravel, tire blowouts cornering and many other encounters.

I don't get your meaning here. Are you telling me you have less chance getting hit from behind by riding 30mph as 15mph?

Yep. It gives the driver more time to see you, not to mention that it reduced the speed differential between bicycle and car if you go faster, probably reducing the severity of any impact. It also means you can get across the particularly narrow patches quicker.


Like the orginal post said,cars are going to try to get around you even if you are going the speed limit.

In that case it makes no difference.



The faster you ride the less time you have to react. I'd rather hit a van that pulled out in front of me at 15mph that 30mph.

Actually, the time you have to react from someone pulling out in front of you is determined more by your positioning on the road than your speed. If you're hugging the kerb you'll have no time to react regardless of your speed. In other situations, I actually find that drivers are less likely to pull out in front of me if I'm going flat out than if I'm going slow.


The faster you ride the more likely you could crash from potholes, gravel, tire blowouts cornering and many other encounters.

Never had a tyre blowout on a corner in over 120,000km of riding. As far as the other things go, it's a judgement call. One pothole is actually very easy to avoid at any speed. If there are a heap of them, then slowing down is the right thing to do. Patches of gravel can be seen from a long way in anycase, and I'm not convinced that slowly is the best way to deal with them.

As a commuter it is much safer for you to ride as fast as you can try and be a close to the speed of traffic. They tend to pay more attention to you. I don't have much time to spend checking out the scenery in heavy traffic. There is way to much going on in urban traffic not to be paying attention to everything going on around you. I save that for my pleasure rides and that tends to be away from heavy traffic. If you are timid about traffic it will eat you alive (no exageration) stay on the trails then