Training & Nutrition - Basic Intervals help.

A young cycling friend as just won his first race. He really wants to get into cycling.

I asked him what type of training he does.... "none"

I want to give him a basic interval chart/table... something simple to start off with. He has a borrowed bike (mine), no HRM... not even a speedo. But he has a sports watch with a stopwatch function.

Before everyone starts screaming SEARCH!... that's what I've been doing for the last 30 mins. There's heaps of interval stuff out there bit it's either way to technical (VO2max, wattage) or designed for fatties (you have to wade through all the "Loose 100kg in just 30 seconds a day" shyte) just about to step on the treadmill after 20 years of watching TV.

All I need is a simple Starter, Intermediate, Intense, etc table, chart... Something I can print out for him (no email).

Anyone?

Much appreciated... cheers!

The simple equation is; hard training + hard recovery = legs.
Train hard, rest hard.

an investment in at least a heart rate monitor would be worthwhile, they can be had for under $30. a better investment than a cycling computer.

How old is your friend? The best thing for him IMO would be to search out a cycling club w/ a good junior team if he is under 18.

note, I am writing this to "you" but the intent is that the "you" is him, if that makes sense...

The easiest way to think about intervals is this... for any interval duration, go as hard as you can and still be able to complete the interval and the set. For example for a 5x5 (5 minutes, 5 times), it will be a pretty high effort but if you blow yourself out the first time so that you barely finish, your next one you probably won't be able to do. I like to do 5x5s on a hill so that I have a steady resistance and can easily check my performance on each interval (i.e. am I as far up the hill each time?)

As for duration, what aspect of your performance are you trying to improve? If you are trying to improve your ability to stay with a group for a long sustained effort, such as long climb, do 2x20 or 3x20. and if the goal is to be able to deal with surges do like 10x2 or something to that effect. I liked 5x5s but maybe focused a little too heavily on them last year, giving me good medium term power but never really developing my short term power...

I too was looking for something a basic interval rotation to start out with so thanks for asking Velomancer and for replying with something that I can understand UMD. If anyone has a good week long regimen that's easy to follow that would be perfect. Thanks

an investment in at least a heart rate monitor would be worthwhile, they can be had for under $30. a better investment than a cycling computer.

I don't know if I buy this.

Now don't get me wrong, I certainly used one when I was training, but I was a cat 3 and had done my first ironman before I strapped my chest the first time.

I'm not sure that I don't buy it either. In fact, I'm trying to think of the most effective training electronic right now and I can't decide.

1. Speedometer/odometer/trip meter/avg. speed unit. Basically all you need to know how the ride is going. Especially if you are familiar with the course. It falls short on windy days and on new terrain though. This isn't a problem if you're running cadence on your unit or have a good feel for your leg speed.

2. Wattage. It's effing brilliant stuff but too pricey to really suggest to a beginner.

3. HR. I love it in spinning class/interval stuff and to tell me how I'm feeling.

4. Ipod. Flame me. I never used one but I've gone on a few rides with one and really don't know how I ever survived without one.

I too was looking for something a basic interval rotation to start out with so thanks for asking Velomancer and for replying with something that I can understand UMD. If anyone has a good week long regimen that's easy to follow that would be perfect. Thanks

To build on what UMD proposed here is a weekly interval plan that is similar to what a competitive rider might do. However any plan you might look at only makes sense in the context of your longer term goals (which we don't have).

So, this would be a very simple plan that might make sense if you were trying to be a better road racer. All intervals should be performed at an intensity that is 90-100% of your best effort for the duration.

Base - 8 weeks
M - rest
T - 2 x 20' to start building to 3 x 20' or 1 x60' if you have a 1 hour climb you can do
W - rest or VERY easy recovery ride
R - same as Tue
F - rest
S - 2 hrs of Tempo - moderate pace - w a group if you can find one that doesn't hammer
S - Same as Sat (towards the end of the 8 weeks find faster group rides)

Build - 6 weeks
M - rest
T - 3 x 5' to start - building to 5 x 5' - add additional tempo or endurance miles/hours as needed
W - Endurance ride w 5-6 sprints
R - same as Tue or 2 x 20'/3 x 20'
F - rest
S - 2 hrs of Tempo - moderate pace - w a group if you can find one that doesn't hammer
S - Fast group ride

Specialize - 4 weeks
M - rest
T - 5 x 1' to start - building to 8 x 1' - add additional tempo or endurance miles/hours as needed
W - rest or VERY easy recovery ride
R - same as Tue or 2 x 20'/3 x 20'
F - rest
S - 2 hrs of Tempo - moderate pace - w a group if you can find one that doesn't hammer
S - Fast group ride or race that simulates the event you are targeting

The simple equation is; hard training + hard recovery = legs.
Train hard, rest hard.

an investment in at least a heart rate monitor would be worthwhile, they can be had for under $30. a better investment than a cycling computer.

How old is your friend? The best thing for him IMO would be to search out a cycling club w/ a good junior team if he is under 18.

HRM is not possible. We live in a developing country where they don't even have proper HR equipment in the hospitals. The only club is one I set up and resources are scant. Thanks though.

note, I am writing this to "you" but the intent is that the "you" is him, if that makes sense...

The easiest way to think about intervals is this... for any interval duration, go as hard as you can and still be able to complete the interval and the set. For example for a 5x5 (5 minutes, 5 times), it will be a pretty high effort but if you blow yourself out the first time so that you barely finish, your next one you probably won't be able to do. I like to do 5x5s on a hill so that I have a steady resistance and can easily check my performance on each interval (i.e. am I as far up the hill each time?)

As for duration, what aspect of your performance are you trying to improve? If you are trying to improve your ability to stay with a group for a long sustained effort, such as long climb, do 2x20 or 3x20. and if the goal is to be able to deal with surges do like 10x2 or something to that effect. I liked 5x5s but maybe focused a little too heavily on them last year, giving me good medium term power but never really developing my short term power...

This is good... thanks.

To build on what UMD proposed here is a weekly interval plan that is similar to what a competitive rider might do. However any plan you might look at only makes sense in the context of your longer term goals (which we don't have).

So, this would be a very simple plan that might make sense if you were trying to be a better road racer. All intervals should be performed at an intensity that is 90-100% of your best effort for the duration.

Base - 8 weeks
M - rest
T - 2 x 20' to start building to 3 x 20' or 1 x60' if you have a 1 hour climb you can do
W - rest or VERY easy recovery ride
R - same as Tue
F - rest
S - 2 hrs of Tempo - moderate pace - w a group if you can find one that doesn't hammer
S - Same as Sat (towards the end of the 8 weeks find faster group rides)

Build - 6 weeks
M - rest
T - 3 x 5' to start - building to 5 x 5' - add additional tempo or endurance miles/hours as needed
W - Endurance ride w 5-6 sprints
R - same as Tue or 2 x 20'/3 x 20'
F - rest
S - 2 hrs of Tempo - moderate pace - w a group if you can find one that doesn't hammer
S - Fast group ride

Specialize - 4 weeks
M - rest
T - 5 x 1' to start - building to 8 x 1' - add additional tempo or endurance miles/hours as needed
W - rest or VERY easy recovery ride
R - same as Tue or 2 x 20'/3 x 20'
F - rest
S - 2 hrs of Tempo - moderate pace - w a group if you can find one that doesn't hammer
S - Fast group ride or race that simulates the event you are targeting

AHH! HAA! This is exactly what we're after... LT... THANKS!... BTW my young friend came THIRD in his first Crit today... imagine what he could do with proper training....

The short term goal is to get him as fit as possible. I may have access to proper coaches, or be able to send him overseas, in the near future... but this is a great start.

Just so I understand. 2x20', 5x1' etc is: sets x minutes with recovery in between.... yes?

thanks again!

I also have to give thanks. I'm reading the Training Bible but it would take me two more weeks it seems to develope a good training plan. I'll start with the one you laid out LT and build on that.

Glad that helps. Yes, the first number denotes sets, and the second minutes (duration).

In terms of rest between intervals (rbi) I would do the following...

2x20' w 5' rbi or a 4/1 work/rest ratio
5x5' w 5' rbi or a 1/1 work/rest ratio (you can shorten the rest period to make the wkt tougher and simulate race conditions but make sure you've recovered enough to make the next effort a quality effort)
6x1' w 5' rbi or a 1/5 work/rest ratio (given these are REALLY hard)

Sounds like you have someone w some serious natural talent. Good luck!

I also have to give thanks. I'm reading the Training Bible but it would take me two more weeks it seems to develope a good training plan. I'll start with the one you laid out LT and build on that.

Again, glad this helps. I've read Friel, Carmichael, Coggan/Allen, and even Eddie B (which tells you how old I am :D).

Everyone comes at it from a slightly different angle but in the end they are more alike than they are different, at least in terms of their more current training prescriptions.

When setting up interval training, is there a guideline on how much time to spend in a specific zone?

I use the Joe Friel zones where the LTHR represents 100%:

Zone 1: 65% to 81% Recovery
Zone 2: 82% to 88% Aerobic
Zone 3: 89% to 93% Tempo
Zone 4: 94% to 100% Subthreshold
Zone 5a: 101% to 102% Superthreshold
Zone 5b: 103% to 105% Aerobic capacity

I think of the Recovery and Aerobic zones as "go all day" zones. How about the other zones? I'm sure I'd have trouble trying to do more than a few seconds in zone 5b, but what is a realistic expectation for # of sets and time at that zone, and the others from 3 to 5b?

Regards,
Steve - 3 lbs away from leaving the Clydesdale peloton

When setting up interval training, is there a guideline on how much time to spend in a specific zone?

It's so dependent on what you need to train, that is addressing your weaknesses as a rider. The mistake that most riders make is mis-diagnosing their weaknesses. Most think they need to do shorter duration, higher intensity intervals because they are getting dropped in races or fast group rides when the pace picks up.

In most cases their threshold is too low and they go anaerobic too quickly when the going gets tough. The best thing you can do is build your threshhold by doing 2x20' intervals (6-8 weeks to maximize gains) at roughly 90% of one (1) hour power, or what is commonly called the Sweet Spot Training (SST).

I've attached an article on SST that describes the benefits of building your threshold power using SST. The best thing about it SST is done at an intensity that doesn't beat you up physically or psychologically, therefore you can do lots of it, and you get most of the gain at a lower intensity that you would get if you were riding at a higher intensity near your threshold.

An SST pace can best be described as the pace at which it's hard to hold a conversation, but is not so hard that you start to feel the burn. Again most riders would be best served to train their threshold first, and then build power on the continuum that stresses the aerobic/anaerobic zone (5' intervals) and finally the mostly anaerobic zone (1' intervals) as they look to peak for a target event.

http://www.fascatcoaching.com/tempotraining.html

Just let the kid have fun! Does he want to start training hard/scheduled? If not, don't force him.

Just let the kid have fun! Does he want to start training hard/scheduled? If not, don't force him.

Please don't take this the wrong way but why would you be against someone training in a structured way? The reason I ask is I've heard this refrain before in regards to young adults getting into cycling, but you never hear it when it comes to other sports. I'm trying to think of the last time I heard this in regards to baseball, football, soccer, et al. I ride with a few juniors and they do structured training, along w some "unstructured" group rides, and guess what, they are having fun doing it, and improving.

I personally think the worst thing you can do is say to someone starting out in cycling, who is already racing and enjoying the sport, is "just go ride your bike". Why? Because often kids will over-train and develop bad habits. OK, my flame suit is on, and this is just my opinion, but I don't see the harm in some structure for a young athlete, assuming the kid is = or > roughly 15 years of age.

Last, I ABSOLUTELY agree with the statement that if the kid doesn't want to train, don't force him. The desire should come from within.

Please don't take this the wrong way but why would you be against someone training in a structured way? The reason I ask is I've heard this refrain before in regards to young adults getting into cycling, but you never hear it when it comes to other sports. I'm trying to think of the last time I heard this in regards to baseball, football, soccer, et al. I ride with a few juniors and they do structured training, along w some "unstructured" group rides, and guess what, they are having fun doing it, and improving.

I personally think the worst thing you can do is say to someone starting out in cycling, who is already racing and enjoying the sport, is "just go ride your bike". Why? Because often kids will over-train and develop bad habits. OK, my flame suit is on, and this is just my opinion, but I don't see the harm in some structure for a young athlete, assuming the kid is = or > roughly 15 years of age.

Last, I ABSOLUTELY agree with the statement that if the kid doesn't want to train, don't force him. The desire should come from within.

Really, you've never heard of this with other sports? Tiger Woods?

The fact that he did no structured training before you came along says something. I'm not saying don't do it, but just don't push him. It's the classic case of the trainer living vicariously through their pupil.

Really, you've never heard of this with other sports? Tiger Woods?

The fact that he did no structured training before you came along says something. I'm not saying don't do it, but just don't push him. It's the classic case of the trainer living vicariously through their pupil.

Hmm, you may have me confused w the OP. I'm not the one who asked for an interval routine for the unknown young rider.

In regards to Tiger his "training" was highly structured from the beginning. He was certainly born w an amazing swing and feel for the short game, but he was carefully guided by his father from day one. His dad din't just send him to the golf course and say have a good time. He also started to compete on the junior circuit at a very early age, which in itself imposes structure. In fact I live in a town that routinely produces great junior golfers and believe me they start w "structured" instruction at a VERY early age.

In almost every sport today kids are getting structured training and instruction at an early age. My son plays junior golf, baseball, and basketball, and has been in various structured programs since he was 10, and he's progressed dramatically (now 14). There is no way he would have made the strides he's made had he played any of these sports casually and haphazardly. The same goes for his friends who have pursued football, tennis, soccer et al.

Last, structured training does not mean training can't be fun. You can impose structure and still make things fun for kids.

Just let the kid have fun! Does he want to start training hard/scheduled? If not, don't force him.

Don't worry, he's having fun.... and he's winning races... WITH NO TRAINING!!!!

He could well be representing his country in a years... even a few months.

He is young, healthy, focused and determined... he just needs a little help to get to the next level.

Once he's there I can probably get him professional training, coaching, a sports scholarship... who knows.

I'm not forcing anyone. In fact I have a problem holding him back. He asked me for help. I've seen kids blow there knees out and have to give up cycling before they're out of their teens because the just GO GO GO, cycle as hard and fast as they can.... not good!

Really, you've never heard of this with other sports? Tiger Woods?

The fact that he did no structured training before you came along says something. I'm not saying don't do it, but just don't push him. It's the classic case of the trainer living vicariously through their pupil.

Tiger Woods is a freak. The guy was over blessed with natural talent. The majority of us do it through hard work and dedication and never get anywhere close that kind of ability.

So what... just let him do his own thing, no support, no help... "hey bro you're pretty good, you could be great with a bit of training... see ya later"??????????

I just want to give the guy a print out so he can do some intervals...

He won or was placed in some pretty tough events, on a borrowed bike, borrowed shoes, second hand knicks and jersey... and quite a bit of natural talent.

Tiger Woods is a freak. The guy was over blessed with natural talent. The majority of us do it through hard work and dedication and never get anywhere close that kind of ability.

So what... just let him do his own thing, no support, no help... "hey bro you're pretty good, you could be great with a bit of training... see ya later"??????????

I just want to give the guy a print out so he can do some intervals...

He won or was placed in some pretty tough events, on a borrowed bike, borrowed shoes, second hand knicks and jersey... and quite a bit of natural talent.

this has nothing to do with your main question, just wanted to state i think the Tiger statement is wrong. half wrong at least ;).

it is well documented that he is one of, if not the, hardest working golfer on the tour. it takes both ability and dedication to excel to the level he has. teach that to this young stud rider and the skies the limit. good luck. later.

this has nothing to do with your main question, just wanted to state i think the Tiger statement is wrong. half wrong at least ;).

it is well documented that he is one of, if not the, hardest working golfer on the tour. it takes both ability and dedication to excel to the level he has. teach that to this young stud rider and the skies the limit. good luck. later.

I'm not using "freak" in a derogatory way... Freak as in unique, totally individual. He's is a freak because there are no others like him... or even close. Armstrong is one. Naomi Campbell too. Naturally gifted

A freak is: a person, animal or plant with an unusual physical abnormality; a person who is obsessed with, or unusually enthusiastic about a certain interest.

To be/get to/stay at the top one has to hard working and be dedicated... but first you need the opportunity try. That's all I'm providing by requesting a simple training programme.... the rest is up to "young stud". If he shows he's got what it takes, I can help open other doors.

The desire should come from within.

The basic difference in Tiger Woods and John Dailey.

Sounds like this kid has the desire, he just wants the tools to succeed.

I'm not using "freak" in a derogatory way... Freak as in unique, totally individual. He's is a freak because there are no others like him... or even close. Armstrong is one. Naomi Campbell too. Naturally gifted

A freak is: a person, animal or plant with an unusual physical abnormality; a person who is obsessed with, or unusually enthusiastic about a certain interest.

To be/get to/stay at the top one has to hard working and be dedicated... but first you need the opportunity try. That's all I'm providing by requesting a simple training programme.... the rest is up to "young stud". If he shows he's got what it takes, I can help open other doors.

i think we agree here. it wasnt the "freak" comment that i was responding too. it was the implication that he doesnt work hard or doesnt have to work hard because he is so blessed with talent. that is all. later.

The thing that is missing from here is how to determine at what training intensity the cyclist should be working at.

If he has no other way to see intensity, why not use the Borg Scale of perceived exertion?



6 - 20% effort
7 - 30% effort - Very, very light (Rest)
8 - 40% effort
9 - 50% effort - Very light - gentle walking
10 - 55% effort
11 - 60% effort - Fairly light
12 - 65% effort
13 - 70% effort - Somewhat hard - steady pace
14 - 75% effort
15 - 80% effort - Hard
16 - 85% effort
17 - 90% effort - Very hard
18 - 95% effort
19 - 100% effort - Very, very hard
20 - Exhaustion

It has been scientifically been demonstrated to be very accurate to Heart rate readings, and is a great way for a young athlete to learn to listen to his body. This is a very rough breakdown of how you might apply the Scale:

11 - 14 - Base conditioning
15 - 18 - Threshold work
18+ - Intervals

If he is still very young (13 - 16), their should be certain priorities in his training program - not just hammer it day in and day out - Physiologically his Systems are not yet ready for that type of training.

Hope this helps
James
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