Living Car Free - Ramps or Elevators?

Sometimes our urban planners put in elevators to raise bikes and wheel chair users and sometimes they have self power up ramps. In some places you use both, partway by ramp then the rest of the way by elevator, with adjacent stairs or escalator. Why not just ramps when space permits? It seems like elevators slow us down and breakdown too. On a ship design project I once ran a trade off study and found ramps to give better cargo through put, but the marine architects claimed the ramps wouldn't work in high sea states. I think they just said that to keep the cargo transport guy from mucking with their initial design. In some places where a pedestrian walkway crosses interstate highways, the ramps are several stories tall so it can't be an ADA rule that after a certain height you have to lift wheelchair users. Or maybe the highway people ignore that rule?

It looks like a lot of technical info is available on Google (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLC,GGLC:1969-53,GGLC:en&q=bicycle+ramp+elevator).

As for personal preference, I'll pick the ramp because it won't break down. Riding down them is fun too.

Around here all ped overpasses are posted against bike riding and skate boards. Another law ignored by cyclists. In buildings and ships i can see where a long ramp might eat up a lot of expensive volume. In the case of power failures when a building must be evacuated each chair user had better have several strong people on hand who will risk their own lives to stay behind to carry the user down any/all stairs.

Bicycles don't need long ramps like a wheel chair, just run a narrow trough up the side of the stairs to roll the bike along in. I have seen it done, and they are very common place in places like the Netherlands and Denmark, they might add 12"-14" to the overall width of a set of stairs. They have them on both sides, as well as down the middle in some cases. The one below has them along the outside edges of the stairway.

Aaron:)

http://www.bte-group.com/beheer/uploads/pics/trap_site.jpg

i ride my craptastc mountain bike everday now, as i dont have a car in england. Those stairs look fine even without the edge on the side, just sit back ono the saddle and work your way down.

i ride my craptastc mountain bike everday now, as i dont have a car in england. Those stairs look fine even without the edge on the side, just sit back ono the saddle and work your way down.

What about up?

I BELIEVE the principal of stairs is to walk up and down them...YMMV:innocent:

Aaron:)

I BELIEVE the principal of stairs is to walk up and down them...YMMV:innocent:

Aaron:)

I thought that btjzx6rr was talking about riding his bike down the actual steps. I was thinking, OK but it won't be so easy to ride back UP them again.

My manager at work is in a wheelchair. After watching him propel himself up a long ramp a couple of times I can see why a lift of some sort would be preferred.

My manager at work is in a wheelchair. After watching him propel himself up a long ramp a couple of times I can see why a lift of some sort would be preferred.

Around DC most wheelchair users have electric power. The elevators at the subway stations fail, there is never a day when some aren't out of service. The wheelchair users have to call for shuttle service from other stations. But anyway some highway overpasses have no elevator so the wheelchair users have to use long ramps there. It almost seems like a generational thing, the subway came from the 60s and 70s and has escalators, inclinators, elevators and stairs but no ramps. Some of the ped facilities built in the 90s are ramp only. Oh, but some of the overpasses from the 70s have ramp only too so thats not a hard and fast rule.

If there's space, I prefer ramps. They work with strollers, they work for me when arthritis is giving me hell, they work for elderly people with walkers... It's one solution that handles all kinds of problems gracefully. They do seem to have an upper limit of 3-5 stories of height, but that matches up well with stairs. (historically, buildings were limited to 5 floors because a taller building meant no one would willingly walk up that many stairs)

Elevators have very limited throughput, and seem to work best for relatively long distances. I usually don't use them for less than 3 flights of stairs.

Chair lifts are very useful to fill in the gaps where elevators and ramps are both unrealistic. Doesn't help cyclists one bit, or moms with strollers... but they break down far less often than an elevator.

Elevators have very limited throughput, and seem to work best for relatively long distances. I usually don't use them for less than 3 flights of stairs.


I'll ride my bike 20 miles then I'm so lazy I use the elevator to go up ONE flight.

:o

I'll ride my bike 20 miles then I'm so lazy I use the elevator to go up ONE flight.

:o

My rule is elevators up...stairs down:lol: But I will go up if it is only one floor or so, or I am in a hurry.

I have learned to check to make sure the doors are openable from the stairwell side. One time I was in a 14 story building on the top floor and wanted to go down 2 floors, rather than wait for the elevator I took the stairs, had to all the way to the ground floor to get out of the stairwell:notamused: THEN ride the elevator back up to the floor I wanted.

Aaron:)

My rule is elevators up...stairs down:lol: But I will go up if it is only one floor or so, or I am in a hurry.

I have learned to check to make sure the doors are openable from the stairwell side. One time I was in a 14 story building on the top floor and wanted to go down 2 floors, rather than wait for the elevator I took the stairs, had to all the way to the ground floor to get out of the stairwell:notamused: THEN ride the elevator back up to the floor I wanted.

Aaron:)

Architects and designers are facilitating our addiction to elevators and other non-human-powered transportation. Always give the people what they want!

It all depends on whom the service is for. Cyclists can easily carry a bike up or down stairs (though I appreciate a narrow bike ramp on the stairs). A fit wheelchair user can use a ramp, though a proper ramp has a very low grade and takes a LOT of land to implement properly. For some people, however, a ramp is worse than stairs - this was the case for my grandmother many years ago.

It all depends on whom the service is for. Cyclists can easily carry a bike up or down stairs (though I appreciate a narrow bike ramp on the stairs). A fit wheelchair user can use a ramp, though a proper ramp has a very low grade and takes a LOT of land to implement properly. For some people, however, a ramp is worse than stairs - this was the case for my grandmother many years ago.

The stairs/bike ramp I posted is in the Netherlands...I don't think I would particularly want to be hoisting and Oma or Opa type bike up and down stairs:p

Aaron:)

It all depends on whom the service is for. Cyclists can easily carry a bike up or down stairs (though I appreciate a narrow bike ramp on the stairs). A fit wheelchair user can use a ramp, though a proper ramp has a very low grade and takes a LOT of land to implement properly. For some people, however, a ramp is worse than stairs - this was the case for my grandmother many years ago.

You'll usually see a ramp+stairs, if the ramp is well designed. A ramp takes up so much space that the stairs often can be integrated into the design "for free". Takes something like 10-15 feet of space to get the grade low enough for a ramp that can substitute for 3 steps. A spiral ramp usually can manage to integrate a flight of stairs in the center.

And cyclists may be able to manage bikes on stairs easily, but I sure can't! Guess I'm not a cyclist then :). Most stairs that you run into around here are 1900 or 1950s standard, so the rise is relatively steep, and the run is um... small. Too small for my size 9 women's feet to fit on a whole step. When I do run into more modern code stairs, it's not quite so bad, but even 1970s code is kinda dicey.

You'll usually see a ramp+stairs, if the ramp is well designed. A ramp takes up so much space that the stairs often can be integrated into the design "for free". Takes something like 10-15 feet of space to get the grade low enough for a ramp that can substitute for 3 steps. A spiral ramp usually can manage to integrate a flight of stairs in the center.

And cyclists may be able to manage bikes on stairs easily, but I sure can't! Guess I'm not a cyclist then :). Most stairs that you run into around here are 1900 or 1950s standard, so the rise is relatively steep, and the run is um... small. Too small for my size 9 women's feet to fit on a whole step. When I do run into more modern code stairs, it's not quite so bad, but even 1970s code is kinda dicey.
I was in an 1881 designed building Sunday and the rise/run on the stairs was quite small. It was the old Pension Building. It would be very easy to carry a bike up those stairs. I mentioned to a friend that the workers probably had to carry loads of paper up and down. The horizontal areas of the stairs were very wide maybe 2 1/2 or 3 feet and the vertical maybe 4 inches.