Northern California - New project

Hey folks,

I'm taking a stab at building a lugged steel single speed/fixed gear and thought I'd share my progress with you all.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/3047074948_12def250f1.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/3059917361_0fa1311945.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3042/3062339913_bc404d8cfe.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3196/3066813807_4e8044ef0e.jpg

So far so good. My brazes aren't pretty but, I think they're strong. They'll look better when I'm done and have a chance to clean it up.

It's been a lot of fun so far. As a matter of fact, if anyone is interested, I'd be willing to put in all the labor for free to build you a lugged bike of your specification (geometry, size, etc) if you want to just pay for the parts. Then again, maybe you want to see a finished bike that hasn't fallen to pieces first! =)

Beauty!

PM on its way.

Dang, that sounds like fun. Have you ever built a frame before? I would think that it'd be easier to start with a welded frame, but maybe not.

What kind of tubing and lugs are you using? Paul fork end?

I'll be interested to see the final result. :)

This is my first frame. Welded frames might be easier if you already knew how to tig weld, but I don't. Also, you don't need as much "jigging" with lugged frames as you would with welded frames. I did build a pseudo jig anyway to help with laying out some of the pieces.

I'm using Deddacciai tubing bought from novacycles.com. The lugs are Long Shin stamped lugs. The fork is a nova cycles generic carbon fiber fork.

I'll update the post when I make some progress.

Very nice. How much will the completed frame weigh?

edit: Just noticed novacycles.com is in Rocklin, CA. Nice and close.

I don't know... I'll weigh it once I finish it up. I'll weigh it pre-paint, post-paint, and with the fork and headset. And finally, with all the parts attached.

Nova is close... their website isn't very good though. However, their service via phone has been pretty decent so far.

Brazed the track ends today:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/3081168137_ba7e14ca5f.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/3082009382_0924e6cae9.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3098/3081168489_c5ac8dbe7c.jpg

How hard is it to keep everything aligned while you're brazing the pieces together? Or are the lugs snug enough that there's not enough movement to worry about? Nova Cycles is just a couple of blocks from my house...it's becoming difficult to keep from heading over there. :P

Tom

Looking good so far, this is a fun thread to follow!

What model is your tube miter jig? i just looked through the Grizzly catalog and couldn't find it.

Chieftan - Some pieces are harder to keep aligned than others. Friction does a decent job of keeping the pieces together for the most part. However, without a real jig, some of my lug angles have come out a degree or two off since the lugs do have some play in them. I use a craftsman digital angle finder to keep the rotational alignment good though, and that's probably more important. Otherwise, you can see the basic angle iron jig that I have to help with keeping the stays in place for brazing. The jig is actually something I found on instructables:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Almost-jigless-bicycle-frame-building/

Fastev - that is a Grizzly tube notcher. Tell you the truth, I've had a lot of problems with it. One of the bolts was already stripped. The notcher shaft does not line up with the tube fixture. And the angle indicator is garbage. That being said, Grizzly has been very responsive to my complaints. They're sending me a new bolt and shaft assembly free of charge (which hopefully solve my problems.) In the meantime, I've used a flat file to align the tube fixture with the notcher and found a spare bolt to replace the stripped one. However, for the money, I can't complain that much.

Here's the link:
http://grizzly.com/products/G8686

Mine is painted green and doesn't look nearly as clean and quality as the one in the pic.

A friend of mine just got this and he seems happy with it:
https://jointjigger.websitesource.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28

It is a lot pricier though.

Here's a video of one of my earlier brazing attempts if you're interested:

http://vimeo.com/2366268

UPS man brought my wheels today. I just threw some tubes and tires on and mocked up the the bike as is.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/3084016128_18266c24e1.jpg

Just gotta take a hair dryer to the decals.

That looks seriously fun. Building my own bike frame is on the to-do-one-of-these-days list.

Here's a video of one of my earlier brazing attempts if you're interested:

http://vimeo.com/2366268

Nice. Are you from Nebraska?

One thing, you should get heat resistant gloves or go with no gloves. The latex would stick to your skin if it gets melted somehow.

Nice. Are you from Nebraska?

One thing, you should get heat resistant gloves or go with no gloves. The latex would stick to your skin if it gets melted somehow.

The welder/fabircator I go to for all my car related projects welds with no gloves.... However his rod is in a holder ;)

I don't recall if he wears them while using a torch/brazing.

No, I'm from Pennsylvania originally (go Penn State!) but one of my cousins is from Nebraska. Good call on the gloves. I usually remember to take them off but I get excited and forget sometimes.

I finished the chain and seat stays today!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3048/3086517172_10d20747b4_b.jpg

Major milestone! Still have to put in a bridge in between each of the sets of stays. Thinking about spending some time doing a decorative shallow V shape with scrap pieces just for fun. I think it's aligned pretty well but there's a good chance I may have to do some minor cold setting as well. Then I have to figure out what I'm going to do about paint. Hmm.... suggestions?

Did you bolt your jig together instead of welding? I'm hoping the answer is yes, as I haven't welded in 22 years. :)

How much do you want to spend on paint?

Do you want wet paint or powdercoat?

You can go cheap (rustoleum primer, color, and clearcoats), medium (powdercoat ~$125-$150), or expensive (custom painters).

That looks great! I'm putting together my parts list, I hope mine turns out that nice!

I bolted it together. And I c-clamped it to my work bench. It's not great, but it's ok.

As for paint, I'm thinking about going cheap and just clearcoating. Can you just clearcoat on bare metal? It won't be pretty, but I kinda like the brushed steel look and this way, I can remember all the mistakes I made. =)

I'm in the middle of making the braces now and might actually be done with it tonight!

Amazing. You are teasing us to build our own frame. That would be a very project to do indeed.
Yours turns out fantastic, I am looking forward to seeing the finish bike.
Congrats on the work done so far.

I wanted to put some braces between the stays but all my scrap was tapered so I had to use two pieces, butted together to make a single symmetrical brace. Instead of doing them plain jane straight across, I decided to give them a little flair and angled them a bit. Here's the result:

Chain stay stiffener:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3018/3088948876_30b4d76bfa.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/3088947124_f9a41071a0.jpg

Seat stay stiffener:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3265/3088949382_3a96fb85c3.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/3088109811_a3913582f9.jpg

The only other thing I did today was trim off the excess head tube. Now I just need to spend a little time making some of the joints a little prettier and then it's off to the bike shop to get the head tube faced and reamed for the headset and have the seat tube reamed for my seat post.

thats cool man-

im also in the phase of thinking of building a frame- possibly lugged-

my friend has a bike jig that he built for our schools metal shop- he built a road bike with it-

and i've been planning to use it to build a lugged track frame-

it is pretty easy brazing together a lugged frame?

would you happen to know of any good resources online to show specifically how to build a lugged frame?

Well, I'm not sure if I'd say it's easy. It depends on how much experience you have in a shop and working with tools and metal, etc. Brazing isn't rocket science, but it does take some experience to do well. If you do a search on youtube for brazing, you can get an idea of what it's about. My buddy posted some videos that were helpful. Search for mchimonas and they should come up. I think there were a series of 7 videos.

Otherwise, google is your friend. Check out bob brown, henry james, nova cycle supply, richard sachs. And if you have specific questions, let me know.

Plain clearcoat is probably okay but it'd be hard to tell when there's a scratch without waiting for rust to show up.

Dang, that sounds like fun. Have you ever built a frame before? I would think that it'd be easier to start with a welded frame, but maybe not.

What kind of tubing and lugs are you using? Paul fork end?

I'll be interested to see the final result. :)

Also lugged frames are easier for beginners because there are two pieces of metal heated up and then a hot liquid metal between them as a binding agent. It requires less precision of heat than a tig weld, not to mention that the lugs hold the tubes at the right angle as mentioned above.

Very cool.

Seriously cool

you've got a PM! thanks!

-david

*double post* sorry

Very nice job!

what type of camera/ lens are you using in those pics?

Frame looks good. Makes me want to bust out the braze.

Some of them are 20D some of them are 5D. Lenses are either a 100mm 2.8 macro or 50mm 1.8. The ones from last night are 5D and 100 mm macro.

As for paint, I'm thinking about going cheap and just clearcoating.I thought the same thing, but didn't post because I thought it'd be one of those things that only I would like. :P


not to mention that the lugs hold the tubes at the right angle as mentioned above.That's true. I guess if one started off with welding, they'd need some kind of full jig first.

Some of them are 20D some of them are 5D. Lenses are either a 100mm 2.8 macro or 50mm 1.8. The ones from last night are 5D and 100 mm macro.

This would explain the razor-sharp focus and great color balance of all of your photos, not exactly the norm here, haha :D

But anyway, this is AMAZING work. Keep those pics coming! Do you have an estimate, as far as parts go, for how much it would cost to build one of these frames?

My frame specifically cost about $350 when you add in the parts, shipping, silver, and fork. Without the fork, it would have been about $280.

Not to say lugs are a no brainer, but they are easier to do than TIG welding. The end result of a TIGed joint is a good joint, but it is loaded over a smaller area so the stakes are particularly high. TIG also uses more heat over a small area, and this can pull joints radically out of alignment if not done properly. Also the best tigged bikes are welded in a fixture and not cold set afterwards, so that raises the bar even further.

The normal perception among cyclists is that a monkey could do TIG, while it has a long list of disadvantages as a tubing joinery method. The truth is pretty much the opposite, it takes the most skill and gives the most advanced results. For instance the high heat is less likely to harm steel because it is concentrated in a very small area, over a very short period of time, but that is a recipe for disaster without a lot of skill.

Check out Caletti Cycles' website for a very detailed description of the TIG fabrication process.
http://www.caletticycles.com/process.htm

Hey folks - Just dropped my bike off at the Bike Nook to have the headset installed and the seat post reamed. They weighed it at 4.76 lbs. I'll have them re-weigh it after I get everything put together.

For the frame only? That's on par with other lugged frames I've seen.

Yes, the frame only. Although I guess I should have them weigh it after reaming and before installing the headset to shave off a few fractions of a gram.

got the bike back from the shop today and threw some parts on:
http://tinyurl.com/5jsou5

Me wants one of your frames! :love:

got the bike back from the shop today and threw some parts on

Wow! Very nice!:thumb:


As for paint, I'm thinking about going cheap and just clearcoating. Can you just clearcoat on bare metal? It won't be pretty, but I kinda like the brushed steel look and this way, I can remember all the mistakes I made. =)

You might take a look at Dupli-color products--they make a clear primer and auto clear coat spray. And if you really want to get fancy and cheap, they have "anodized" colors. From my bookmarks for a future project:

Adhesion Promoter Clear Prime (http://www.duplicolor.com/products/adhesion.html)r

Auto Spray Clear Top Coat (http://www.duplicolor.com/products/autospray.html)

Metalcast Anodized Color Paint (http://www.duplicolor.com/products/metalcast.html)


(the best price I found for these was at www.autobarn.net)

stan

I was actually thinking about the duplicolor "nite lite" product in clear. That way I can keep a reminder of my work (good parts and bad) and get a little safety without pasting reflectors or reflective tape all over it.

that is disgustingly awesome. excellent work!

I'm a super noob when it comes to appreciating frames, and so please forgive me for this question: how do you ensure frame integrity/strength? I vaguely recall ads that Cervelo ran during the last TdF showing some machines punching and tugging at Cervelo frames to demonstrate this point. Or am I a witless victim of mass hype? Thanks!

I'm a super noob when it comes to appreciating frames, and so please forgive me for this question: how do you ensure frame integrity/strength? I vaguely recall ads that Cervelo ran during the last TdF showing some machines punching and tugging at Cervelo frames to demonstrate this point. Or am I a witless victim of mass hype? Thanks!

Basically, you do a good braze or you don't.

Since he did them himself, he would know.

A big bike company has to do QC because they make so many bikes, with several employees working on them.

got the bike back from the shop today and threw some parts on:

I really like the "naked" look, no paint, no decal. Simple is beautiful.

Your bike is a work of art.

I rode the bike to BART and back today for a total of 7 miles. So far so good. It feels good, much lighter than my old Panasonic. The fit is perfect for me except I think I'm going to get some different handlebars. The reach to the bullhorns is just too long for me. I think these bars were more for TT type riding. Plus, my Panasonic has bullhorns so for variety, I might try a short set of risers. Make the look even more simple.

I'll probably ride it for a week or two like it is to get some more confidence the joints will hold and then take the parts off for a final sanding and then clear coat.