Advocacy & Safety - Bicyclist beaten by Other Bicylist Over a Light

OK - i just don't get this. Is there more to this story? I thought Madison was a bike friendly city! :mad:


Bicyclist beaten after telling other riders to get lights
By Linda Spice of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Dec. 2, 2008 12:02 p.m.

A 51-year-old man bicycling in Madison suggested that two cyclists passing him put lights on their bikes before they followed him to his home and beat him, according to Madison police.

The victim told police he suffered pain to his head and ribs after being attacked outside of his home on Lakeside St. about 6:30 p.m. Nov. 26, according to a report released today.

The man told police he was riding on South Shore Drive when he heard someone from behind tell him that he would be passing on the left. He moved over and a man and a woman rode past.

As they did, however, he said, "Get a light." The other man turned and asked what he said.

The victim repeated, "Get a light."

The couple yelled loudly at the man, telling him to mind his own business, according to police. The victim said the other man attempted to run him off the road before the couple followed him to his home driveway.

That's where a conversation about lights continued and the woman told the victim that he seemed to have plenty of lights and asked for one. He gave her a light and told police he did not feel threatened.

The other man, however, appeared to still be upset about the original comment and allegedly clamped his hands around the victim's head. The other man then twisted the victim to the ground and kneed him in the ribs.

The victim told police he last saw the two people pedaling down South Shore Drive.

The first suspect was described as a white male, about 6 feet tall, wearing a dark-colored jacket and riding a Trek time trial bike .

The second suspect was a white female, about 5-feet-4-inches who rode an Orbea road bike with orange on the front.

http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/topstories/316796

Great, another couple of rich roadie snobs. Considering how much they spent on their bikes, I'm betting they won't be that hard to track down. Probably belong to the local pretentious club.

A Trek Lime is a "Roadie Snob" bike?

A Trek Lime is a "Roadie Snob" bike?

No Trek Lime; he said a Trek Time Trial (something like this ugly beast)

http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2009/large/equinox7_chired.jpg

And an Orbea of some sort.

Sorry, my bad. I guess I need to read more carefully!

Roadie ninjas beat up the Fred who was trying to help.

Cycling has such a great community.

what a surreal story.

am I really reading this right or is my 3AM drowsiness really starting to set in hardcore?

I remember one time I was riding and a drunk bum (they are all "cyclists" around here) yelled at me to turn on my light. I thanked him and gave him a buck. Shows how different people are, even if they have the same interests.

I remember one time I was riding and a drunk bum (they are all "cyclists" around here) yelled at me to turn on my light. I thanked him and gave him a buck. Shows how different people are, even if they have the same interests.

Whatz the difference between a drunk bum yelling "safety advice" at strangers, a loutish motorist yelling "safety advice" at strangers, and a Safety Nanny yelling "safety advice" at strangers?

Nothing. Though beatings of them should never exceed the violence of an electronic beat down.

So the roadies politely announce "passing left"; In return Fred, in a rude nasty tone yells "get a light" and continues the attitude until he gets put in a head lock and kneed in the ribs: AND everyone here only sees the roadies as the ones who were rude and wrong.

Especially bad when we are only getting one side of the story.

So the roadies politely announce "passing left"; In return Fred, in a rude nasty tone yells "get a light" and continues the attitude until he gets put in a head lock and kneed in the ribs: AND everyone here only sees the roadies as the ones who were rude and wrong.

Especially bad when we are only getting one side of the story.

The followed him home buddy. You trying to excuse a couple of wannabe Lance's for beating the crap out of a 50 year-old man?

The followed him home buddy. You trying to excuse a couple of wannabe Lance's for beating the crap out of a 50 year-old man?

A confrontation takes two parties.

Oh boy, let the demonization of "Lance-wannabes" begin anew :rolleyes:

Edit: Actually, it never stopped.

So the roadies politely announce "passing left"; In return Fred, in a rude nasty tone yells "get a light" and continues the attitude until he gets put in a head lock and kneed in the ribs: AND everyone here only sees the roadies as the ones who were rude and wrong.

Especially bad when we are only getting one side of the story.

This is true.

I think I' probably on pretty safe ground by saying that the guy did not deserve the beat down (I find it remarkably easy to refrain from beating people up in my own life). But still, the guy should have minded his own business about the light.

Originally Posted by GutterNinja! The followed him home buddy. You trying to excuse a couple of wannabe Lance's for beating the crap out of a 50 year-old man?


A confrontation takes two parties.

Inneresting concept.

You're suggesting he got beat up 'cause he cowered insufficiently? Or something else?

You don't counsel **** victims for a day job, do you? Bet that "takes two to tango" 'tude would go over nicely...

A 51-year-old man bicycling in Madison suggested that two cyclists passing him put lights on their bikes before they followed him to his home and beat him, according to Madison police.


And that's what they did. The man gave them a light and they beat him.

with accurate descriptions of the bikes, I would guess that the cops could tract these two clowns down if they felt so inclined. But, I am sure they're too busy handing out speeding tickets for that.

So the roadies politely announce "passing left"; In return Fred, in a rude nasty tone yells "get a light" and continues the attitude until he gets put in a head lock and kneed in the ribs: AND everyone here only sees the roadies as the ones who were rude and wrong.

Especially bad when we are only getting one side of the story.

Geez, the next time someone disrespects me I guess I will just follow someone home and haul out the old .357 and finish the job properly. A little more than just rudeness here, how about assault and battery? It doesn't matter what the guy said it cannot justify these people following him after the initial exchange was over and reinitiating the dispute and beating the crap out of him.

So the roadies politely announce "passing left"; In return Fred, in a rude nasty tone yells "get a light" and continues the attitude until he gets put in a head lock and kneed in the ribs: AND everyone here only sees the roadies as the ones who were rude and wrong.

Especially bad when we are only getting one side of the story.

Double especially bad when we jump to our own conclusions with only one side of the story. Perhaps you should re-read the story and then edit your response to temper it down a bit. I'll help out a little here with some quotes:


suggested that two cyclists passing him put lights on their bikes

Where is the implication of a "rude nasty tone", or of any "yells" from the 51 year old cyclist?????


The couple yelled loudly at the man, telling him to mind his own business, according to police. The victim said the other man attempted to run him off the road before the couple followed him to his home driveway.

Ah hah, here is the report of the rude nasty tone and yelling, it came from the two lightless cyclists according to the report.


That's where a conversation about lights continued and the woman told the victim that he seemed to have plenty of lights and asked for one. He gave her a light and told police he did not feel threatened.

This makes it sound like one of two things were happening, either the situation was difusing or it was an agitated exchange, don't really know for certain.


The other man, however, appeared to still be upset about the original comment and allegedly clamped his hands around the victim's head. The other man then twisted the victim to the ground and kneed him in the ribs.

And now, with this portion of the report, we see who has anger issues and holds their anger the longest, and turns verbal comments into a violent physical attack.

'scuse me now, I think I'll go back to avoiding this section of the site. Nothing personal, just observations, have a very nice day. :rolleyes:

(ps, please don't stalk me or follow me home, okay? ;) )
(pps, someday I'd like to bicycle in Hawaii, I'll bring a spare light or two.)

If I were in a surly mood I'd yell at ninjas too, but I've only been caught unaware while fairly passive. I usually encounter them coming at me (against traffic, OF COURSE) in a bike lane at night, so I think I would be entitled to. If someone is passing me, hey, whatever dude, but not if they are adding injury to insult by going the wrong way.

They don't call those people bike ninjas for nothing, I guess.

Paul

I don't know what these two cyclists paid for their bikes, but judging by the initial price of the type of bikes that they have that yelling at them to get a light seems like a mute point. They should easily be able to afford a really nice light system, and it seems that not having one is by their own design. I do see a lot of roadies with lights though, but usually they have just the bare minimum to be legal. Only once did I recommend a cyclist to get a light, since she was riding against traffic at night, narrowly missing me to avoid the traffic, collided with a motorist who was making a right hand turn into a driveway, and ending up on the pavement.

They should easily be able to afford a really nice light system, and it seems that not having one is by their own design.

Not necessarily. It's happened to me before that I didn't bring my lights since I didn't think I'd be home before dark, and didn't want the hassle of carrying them with me after I locked the bike up. Of course, I got delayed, or just miscalculated how long I'd be out, and wound up riding lightless in the dark, though I didn't intend to.

So the roadies politely announce "passing left"; In return Fred, in a rude nasty tone yells "get a light" and continues the attitude until he gets put in a head lock and kneed in the ribs: AND everyone here only sees the roadies as the ones who were rude and wrong.

Especially bad when we are only getting one side of the story.

I think that the comments are about the disproportionate response. Rude is one thing. Beating someone else up is taking it to a new level.

Not necessarily. It's happened to me before that I didn't bring my lights since I didn't think I'd be home before dark, and didn't want the hassle of carrying them with me after I locked the bike up. Of course, I got delayed, or just miscalculated how long I'd be out, and wound up riding lightless in the dark, though I didn't intend to.

One reason why I have an fairly inexpensive, compact set of lights attached to all my bikes, even on my winter commuter with it's HID system, the inexpensive head lights are detachable and small enough to fit in seat tool bag.

It seems quite possible to me that the bikes were stolen, which would make them not "Lance wannabes" but garden-variety bike thieves, for whom such behaviour would be perfectly in keeping.

It seems quite possible to me that the bikes were stolen, which would make them not "Lance wannabes" but garden-variety bike thieves, for whom such behaviour would be perfectly in keeping.

Must have been a polite bike thief - who knew road etiquette!!

"The man told police he was riding on South Shore Drive when he heard someone from behind tell him that he would be passing on the left."

errrr at least polite initially - until he beat the crap out of Fred.

Roadie ninjas beat up the Fred who was trying to help.

Cycling has such a great community.



Must have been brown belts....not yet ninjas.

It seems quite possible to me that the bikes were stolen, which would make them not "Lance wannabes" but garden-variety bike thieves, for whom such behaviour would be perfectly in keeping.

Oh, come on.

Update (http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/316889) on story and the discussion (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=491259) in the Great Lakes subforum.

For those of you who are too lazy to read either of my links. The victim is the owner of a very well respected high-end LBS here in Madison, so it's unsurprising that he would be annoyed that other night cyclists don't have lights and why he would recognize the bikes. All you haterz who like to snark about "safety nannies" and "rude toned freds"... why should he mind his own business? He's a fellow cyclist who, I'm quite sure, would rather not read in the paper that two cyclists without lights had been hit and killed by a driver.

Oh, come on.

+1 two bike thieves riding together on expensive bikes is a ridiculous notion.

He's a fellow cyclist who, I'm quite sure, would rather not read in the paper that two cyclists without lights had been hit and killed by a driver.

After his subsequent encounter, I'm not so sure he'd have minded if these two cyclists met such an end.

After his subsequent encounter, I'm not so sure he'd have minded if these two cyclists met such an end.

I'm sure this kind of thing is a perfectly acceptable post for 4chan... but don't do it here.

the roadies were idiots for riding without lights and following the guy home and beating him; the guy was an idiot for not minding his own business in the first place.

I love it how the nanny state has gotten bicyclists to police themselves on issues like lights, whatta buncha morans!

I myself only make such comments to roadies who pass too fast and close without warning, who gives a crap whether they have lights or not?

the roadies were idiots for riding without lights and following the guy home and beating him; the guy was an idiot for not minding his own business in the first place.

I love it how the nanny state has gotten bicyclists to police themselves on issues like lights, whatta buncha morans!

I myself only make such comments to roadies who pass to fast and close without warning, who gives a crap whether they have lights or not?

Because it reflects badly on all cyclists. If you think we're not lumped together into the same group with people who lose their licenses and 13 year olds who can't yet drive you're not paying attention. C'mon folks, I thought this was ADVOCACY and Safety. Not "Put on our Blinders" and "Mind Your Own Business".

the 'reflects badly on all cyclists' argument is old and tired, give it a rest for a change. Everyone is responsible for their own safety on the road, and if you're not up to snuff, well that's what traffic cops are for.

the 'reflects badly on all cyclists' argument is old and tired, give it a rest for a change. Everyone is responsible for their own safety on the road, and if you're not up to snuff, well that's what traffic cops are for.

That's a BS argument. You're just tired of hearing it. And legally, not only are you responsible for your own safety you also have a Legal Duty of Care due to all other users on the road. See the Uniform Vehicle Code that applies the law to all users of the road even Horse-drawn carriages and pedestrians.

Because it reflects badly on all cyclists. If you think we're not lumped together into the same group with people who lose their licenses and 13 year olds who can't yet drive you're not paying attention. C'mon folks, I thought this was ADVOCACY and Safety. Not "Put on our Blinders" and "Mind Your Own Business".

I don't want to be told how to dress, how to ride, how to behave, all for the brotherhood and unity of some mythical clan of cyclists.

I ride responsibly, and that's enough. I don't care if others do their own thing, and I don't care if other cyclists look down on me because my blinkie's not bright enough.

I don't want to be told how to dress, how to ride, how to behave, all for the brotherhood and unity of some mythical clan of cyclists.

I ride responsibly, and that's enough. I don't care if others do their own thing, and I don't care if other cyclists look down on me because my blinkie's not bright enough.

I don't think you get it. It's the non-cyclists who look down on cyclists. Hell, my own sister-in-law thinks that anyone who rides a bicycle must be an illegal alien and unable to obtain a drivers license (she lives in Arizona).

the 'reflects badly on all cyclists' argument is old and tired, give it a rest for a change. Everyone is responsible for their own safety on the road, and if you're not up to snuff, well that's what traffic cops are for.

Heh - I agree with randya... again.

I'm sure this kind of thing is a perfectly acceptable post for 4chan... but don't do it here.

If you found my post objectionable, go report it. Otherwise, save some bandwidth and move on.

Come to think of it, this kind of nagging is what got the cyclist in the article a knee to the ribs.

Somebody will think twice before spouting off next time.

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/article.php?article=24005

I love it. The LBS owner is the kind of guy that so many here, love to hate. He sells custom bikes for roadies and tri-folks. He was probably pissed that the guy was on a Trek, rather than one of his high priced Cervélo P3 or P4s.

I don't think you get it. It's the non-cyclists who look down on cyclists. Hell, my own sister-in-law thinks that anyone who rides a bicycle must be an illegal alien and unable to obtain a drivers license (she lives in Arizona).

I understand that. But I'm not interested in participating in a campaign to improve cyclists image. I just like riding my bike and I do okay with that. And actually, a lot of cyclists on A&S do indeed look down on cyclists who don't fit a certain mold.

If you found my post objectionable, go report it. Otherwise, save some bandwidth and move on.

Come to think of it, this kind of nagging is what got the cyclist in the article a knee to the ribs.

He took you to task for it which is better than just going to the mods right away, don't you think?

He took you to task for it which is better than just going to the mods right away, don't you think?

I'd rather he'd gone to the mods, personally. Less nonsense for me to read.

I don't think you get it. It's the non-cyclists who look down on cyclists. Hell, my own sister-in-law thinks that anyone who rides a bicycle must be an illegal alien and unable to obtain a drivers license (she lives in Arizona).

even if every cyclist behaved *perfectly* according to the law she would still think this, and cyclists would still be looked down upon by motorists

even if every cyclist behaved *perfectly* according to the law she would still think this, and cyclists would still be looked down upon by motorists

Exactly. The antipathy toward cyclists has very little to do with the behavior of cyclists as a whole, and very much to do with whatever bigotries, resentments, fears, or other untoward feelings adults in cars hold toward adults on bicycles.

Ok, let me get this straight. You are all quite happy to skewer some poor schmuck, after the fact, who gets creamed while riding at night without a light. Yet, when someone someone rides by you without a light you say nothing?

And NOW when someone does go out of his way to say something to another lightless cyclist and gets beat up for his efforts you jump down his throat with your "He should mind his own damned business"?

It is poor behavior to take someone to task in the court of public opinion when you can't keep consistency. If you are unwilling to speak out to other cyclists about their bad behavior while its happening; then you shouldn't feel that you have any right to do so afterwards with your smug "He had it coming to him for riding without lights".

As for my reporting it to a mod... I'm sorry I wasted your time and made you read my opinion. But, while your kind of attitude ticks me right off, my hope was that you'd read my post and say "yes, actually what I said was in poor taste". But, I'll gladly flag your post if that'll make you feel better.