Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - The latest word in GPS

I'd be interested in a STICKY with a title like this, but for now...

I'm thinking I'd like to have a GPS by the time I start my next tour next summer, and I'd like to have it long enough to get to know it before then.

So every now and then I go online and look at them. It's very discouraging! I've never had one, the information on the various different ones is never quite compatible, and the most obvious questions (will this work for me?) are not addressed.

Furthermore, it all seems to change so rapidly.

So...

What are you, my fellow bicyclists, using these days, and what do you recommend?

Thanks!

I went with a plan old handheld, nothing specific to biking. This way I can use it in a vehicle or walking or whatever. Its somewhat of a compromise but I only need one then.
I went with expandable and AA powered so I didn't have to carry a charging cord everywhere as a couple spare AA's are smaller or I can utilize my existing AA charger

I have used both a marine handheld (Garmin GPS Map76 with handlebar mount) as well as the bike-specific Garmin Edge 705. They both have their advantages. As the above post indicates, if it is AA battery powered you can repower at almost any convenience store whereas if your Edge 705 goes dead and you don't have a generator set-up you're just plain dead. Units like the Map76 are good for off road/mountain bike use where the roads aren't shown on the map. You can use Google Earth and the unit's easy "point-and-click" style of creating waypoints without needing a computer interface to generate a route through the woods and tulies. The Edge 705 is great for organized road bike rides and training rides where the roads are well documented as it is easy to download routes from a computer that will give you turn-by-turn directions. And the Edge series give you a ton of data to play with including cadence, heart-rate, percent grade, elevation, etc. etc.

There is a mammoth thread on the Edge units in this forum created by Luv2climb that should probably be a Sticky. But just page down and you will find it. It's the one with thousands of views.

You'll want to look at the following...

1. Shock Proof
2. Waterproof
3. Map software
4. More importantly the availability of a secure mount for handlebars
5. Power consumption - Especially important are the use of readily available batteries. Don't go for the ones that use proprietary or are permanently encased for use on tours.
6. Ease of navigation with the menu buttons, and screens.
7. Simplicity - although this depends on whether you need to use it for other things....hiking, camping, driving.....etc. For example, some come with built in compasses, barometers, altimeters, hrm, cadence...etc..$$$
8. Size - You don't want it to big, but the map and details should still be legible especially in direct sunlight.
9. Cost


I've only tried Garmins, Megellans, and TomToms. Of the three I recommend Garmin. I've been using a 60csx for about 5 yrs (I think - don't know if they still make it). Very dependable, durable, and pretty much fits the list above. Only complaint is the old school lcd screen...sucks up a lot of juice.

For mounts...check out RAM.

the 6/705 is nice for touring but the battery will only last for 2 full days of touring. after that you'll need some way to recharge it.

......
I'm thinking I'd like to have a GPS by the time I start my next tour next summer, and I'd like to have it long enough to get to know it before then.
.............

Furthermore, it all seems to change so rapidly.

So...

What are you, my fellow bicyclists, using these days, and what do you recommend?

Thanks!

Hello Rudi,

hope you're well?

I've tried various WMx series PD(N)A devices over the last 2 years, with some really high resolution maps for this Country, but never been that happy with them, as the screen's a pain to see in sunshine (you get a lot more of that than we do ;-) )

I haven't bought a *dedicated* device like a Garmin because I felt it'd be out of date in a short time, replaced by the next latest & greatest.

So, recently my wife bought me an iPhone PAYG for my birthday/ Christmas present (expensive here!) & didn't mind me using it early :-)

Maps aren't as high res' as eg., "Memory Map" but the iPhone is just far more practical. For a start, it's readable in bright sunshine!

As other posters point out, batteries are very important, & I like the nice screen display on all the time, so I built a 4 AA cell pack with a USB socket from a duff computer PCI card, & that keeps the iPhone going for about 3 to 4 hours, then I have its own battery after that for about 2 more hours.

There are several "app's" on the iTunes store for cycling, running, etc., so I've been testing them, & today am trying "Trails" which looks promising.

There's another thread on here somewhere mentioning iPhone cycling gps app's.

For me, the iPhone wasn't much dearer than a high end Garmin, but manages to pack several useful gadgets for biking into one, & of course, it's far, far more flexible overall, than a dedicated device, but may not have all the features that many cyclists want, which are available in a dedicated device like a Garmin.

It depends what you want out of it really. I had to read tons of stuff, & try out many programs before I discovered what I really felt was useful during riding.

I've been a DeLorme customer, and like their base maps. They make a handheld and it integrates nicely with their maps and software.

garmin is the only company making bike specific GPS units (water resistant, shock proof, appropriate form factor, bike specific software to go with it). they bring a new top-of-the-line unit to market every 2 years. not much else is happening. i would welcome more change.

there is no GPS unit that one could use on a bike and also for car navigation. the form factor is just not practical. ever tried? i did. it doesn't work in a safe and comfortable way.

some people try to crazyglue/mount their iPhones to their handle bars. good luck with that.

handheld outdoorsy GPS units could make a crossover into cycling, but i still have to find one that is as easy (and with the least posssible distraction) to handle on a bike as a garmin edge.

no other GPS offers third party hardware integration for power measurement. no other GPS has cadence and wheel magnet distance measurement integrated. i wish they would have a feature to use the built in buttons in the dura ace hoods though.

i wish there would be competition out there worth being mentioned. garmin edge units are expensive and could use a few GPS units from other manufacturers on the same shelf to adjust that.

* If you are into training aspects of a GPS, then the Edge series are the way to go.
* If you want great maps and the ability to store & display a state's worth of trails; go with the DeLorme PN-40. No contest. I have over 1200 miles of trails on mine and unlike the Garmin, it knows what trail the cursor is over. Unit also has color aerial imagery, USGS quads & vector Topo data loaded for the Colorado Front Range.

The DeLorme display is as readable as the 60C/70C series, albeit smaller, much better than Colorado/Oregon.
Redraws aerial imagery in a flash.
Ram-Mounts are of course available for it.

The inability of the Colorado to display more than one track and it's poorer sunlight visibility doomed it's use for me. Heart-rate monitor was nice though.

I have used the Garmin Vista HCX for light touring and off-road use.. Plenty of storage for maps with optional 1 or 2gb card.. I would suggest you buy the optional Garmin Topo Maps which has every road and trail in the USA.. With the 2gb card you can load most of the lower 48 states.. Best price is walmart for 190.00.. Will run solid for 2 days on 2aa batteries.. Don't have to worry about recharging and the feeble runtime of the Garmin edge 700 series..

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=8703
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=28229&pvID=29597

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6015174

Garmin eTrex Legend Cx

Cost-wise, it's the best you'll get. ($139 bucks + $14 for bike mount)
http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-eTrex-Legend-Mapping-Handheld/dp/B000CSSHG4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228754048&sr=8-1

Mount: http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Bicycle-Mount-Summit-010-10267-00/dp/B00004VX15/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_c

But if money's no object, I'd get the Garmin Edge 705 ($500 with HRM, Speed/cadence). Nothing else is as good and it's compatible with most power meters.
http://www.amazon.com/Edge-705-Bicycle-Monitor-Speed/dp/B000VREP8A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228754210&sr=1-1

Does anyone have a vista/legend HCx and a Cx to compare side by side how much more sensitive and accurate the H model is? I have an HCx and when sitting still or going slow it tends to bounce around a lot.
I'd also like to see Topo 2008 compared to the National Parks topo 24k to see how much better the maps are in the 24k, looking at the demo on their web site they don't look much better

the 6/705 is nice for touring but the battery will only last for 2 full days of touring. after that you'll need some way to recharge it.

Just use an external battery pack or two: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/

External battery packs are a pain, espically when you need more than one. I learned long ago to standardize on AA powered devices. I have one charger for home and one for travel and that takes care of two to three digital cameras, gps, scanner, two way radio, lights, etc. with lithium ion based gear I'd need to carry a bunch of different externals or spares as well as a rats nest of charging cords and transformers.

Does anyone have a vista/legend HCx and a Cx to compare side by side how much more sensitive and accurate the H model is? I have an HCx and when sitting still or going slow it tends to bounce around a lot.
I'd also like to see Topo 2008 compared to the National Parks topo 24k to see how much better the maps are in the 24k, looking at the demo on their web site they don't look much better

What do you mean by bounce around a lot?

If you mean:

1. Bounces physically in the bike mount - you probably need to put in a rubber piece or some electrical tape under the device (I had to do that to keep it secure in the mount).

2. The software/map/route bounces around - no, my Cx has never done that.

the logged coordinates. open the saved log in mapsource then zoom in on a place where you stopped for a bit and see how the log points bounce all around the map.

the logged coordinates. open the saved log in mapsource then zoom in on a place where you stopped for a bit and see how the log points bounce all around the map.

Mine does not do that. I think there's 1 of three explanations:

1. There's something wrong with your device
2. There's poor satellite reception there
3. There's some sort of electro-magnetic interference there

... If you want great maps and the ability to store & display a state's worth of trails; go with the DeLorme PN-40. ...

Anyone else have experience with the PN-40? Based on the online reviews and specs, it looks like the best of all worlds in GPS, but I've never actually seen one or talked to anyone who's used one. Thoughts???

I had a delorme a few years ago, the one that you used with a laptop. The (lack of) quality and support form them burned me on their stuff, I'll buy anything else first.

You'll want to look at the following...

1. Shock Proof
2. Waterproof
3. Map software
4. More importantly the availability of a secure mount for handlebars
5. Power consumption - Especially important are the use of readily available batteries. Don't go for the ones that use proprietary or are permanently encased for use on tours.
6. Ease of navigation with the menu buttons, and screens.
7. Simplicity - although this depends on whether you need to use it for other things....hiking, camping, driving.....etc. For example, some come with built in compasses, barometers, altimeters, hrm, cadence...etc..$$$
8. Size - You don't want it to big, but the map and details should still be legible especially in direct sunlight.
9. Cost


I've only tried Garmins, Megellans, and TomToms. Of the three I recommend Garmin.

I think the advice is above is spot on. I want to add more more, not necessary but can be useful.

10. City Navigator in MicroSD card. -- This will put all the road maps of the US on your Garmin handheld. I like this feature in case my routes don't pan out, I can always get back home because it will guide me turn by turn just like Tom Tom.

11. 15 Minute batter charger --- RayOvac sell 15 minute battery chargers that don't take HOURS to recharge. Very useful.

This is how I create route.

1. After each turn a "WayPoint" is marked in the software. (on your PC)
2. You then take 40-80 "WayPoints" and saved as a "Route" which is then uploaded to your handheld.
3. Create routes riding through subdivisions avoiding major highways. I see cyclists all the time taking roads that are direct but these are in fact very dangerous high speed expressways. The type of route you will create will have lots of turns, more hills but will be far safer.
4. Set up the GPS so that it always continues with the route ahead. This will enable you to deviate with the route instead of forcing your to hit each "WayPoint" that you may have already passed.

Unfortunately, you're limited to a number of Routes that you can store on the GPS. Other than bringing a laptop, is there anyway some can download Routes from the internet into a Garmin device? Anyone?

11. 15 Minute batter charger --- RayOvac sell 15 minute battery chargers that don't take HOURS to recharge. Very useful.



those 15 minute chargers are the worst you can buy, you'll be lucky to get 100 cycles out of your batteries. there is a reason other chargers take a while to charge, its because they are charging within the design spec of the batteries. If you want a charger get a maha.

Also buy city naviagtor on dvd if you want to include the topo maps as well (withought swapping cards). I have both and was able to put 48 states from city navigator and most of the topo east of the mississippi all on one 2G card. When you buy themk already on the cards you can't combine them.

those 15 minute chargers are the worst you can buy, you'll be lucky to get 100 cycles out of your batteries. there is a reason other chargers take a while to charge, its because they are charging within the design spec of the batteries. If you want a charger get a maha.

Also buy city naviagtor on dvd if you want to include the topo maps as well (withought swapping cards). I have both and was able to put 48 states from city navigator and most of the topo east of the mississippi all on one 2G card. When you buy themk already on the cards you can't combine them.

I don't know how many cycles you get but 100 is a good number. Just get four batteries and now you have 200 days of touring. Being able to recharge in 15 minutes is very convienent and can be done at a rest stop while eating lunch.

Well decent batteries are rated for 1000, cheap batteries are rated for 500. The other issue is the overheating caused by the too fast charging causes reduced capacity and higher self discharge.
I wait zero minutes because I keep a spare charged set of low self discharge batteries, even with the lower capacity (2000mAh as opposed to 2500-2700 for the higher capacity) I still end up with better run time because of all the issues with the higher capacity and charging too fast. what happens is charging in 15 minutes is too fast to accuratly determine full charge so you never get a decent full charge. My Garmin GPs rated 12 hours with alkalines runs 16+ hours on eneloops charged with a decent charger.
The main reason though is the sudden failure the batteries have when charged too fast like that so you may be out on your tour and charge your batteries and find out that was cycle that killed them.

Although I have a gps for the car, I am considering buying a gps for my road bike. I also would use it for occasional hikes. I am considering vista, legend, or 60csx Garmin units, but largely because of my confusion regarding what maps I would need to also buy if I go with a Garmin gps, I am also considering the Delorme PN-20. Cost is a key factor so the Edge 605 and 705 are probably out. Mostly, I want an accurate, reliable and easy to use unit that has good color mapping capability. Any thoughts on which gps I should buy?

I have some quesitons on purchasing mapping software from Garmin. First, am I correct that I should not just buy an "update?" Second, is it enough to get the topo maps, or do I also need to get the North America city maps? Third, should I avoid buying the software on ebay and should I spend a bit more to buy it on Amazon.com -- if it is cheap is it likely to be a problem? Finally, is it better to buy the dvd rather than the plug and play chip? Thanks for your help!

I prefer to buy the DVD rather than the pre-loaded Micro SD for my garmin. When you buy the microSD you can't add anything to it. So if you want city navigator and topo 2008 you then have to carry two microsd cards, where if you buy the DVD versions you can select the maps you want from both and it will build one combined that will work on a single card. It takes a while to build that map but I'm running it under Wine on a 1.2GHz laptop and I just built a full card one time and haven't had to mes with it since.

enine, Thanks for your quick reply! I noticed on ebay last night that the Legend Cx is only $139 on amazon, or I might get a different unit on ebay. If I will be using the gps primarily as a cue sheet for rides, any suggestion which way I should go?

You should probably get the HCx, the H is the newer more sensitive chipset. I have the Legend HCx, it can get a signal everywhere, I even toss it in the center console of my truck on long trips just to log and it still gets a signal there.

Thanks. Do you have an opinion regarding the Delorme?

I used a delorme product a few years back and didn't care for it but haven't tried any of their new stuff so I can't say how they are.

enine, Thanks for your quick reply! I noticed on ebay last night that the Legend Cx is only $139 on amazon, or I might get a different unit on ebay. If I will be using the gps primarily as a cue sheet for rides, any suggestion which way I should go?

I have the Legend CX and it's been able to get the signal everywhere! For $139.00 dollars, that's a steal because I've paid twice that amount. Maybe the Ebay GPS is refurbished?

I think what's very important is to get the software from Garmin instead of Ebay. I purchased the software from Ebay and it was bootlegged! Yup, they sell stolen software from Ebay all the time plus it was an older version!

Steve, this has been helpful. After reading your response and the previous comments, and spending alot of time surfing the web, I have all but decided to get the Legend or Vista HCx. I think the cost will be a bit more than $139 (I now realize that the unit that was $139 was an older version of the Legend - not the HCx). The price on Amazon for the Legend or Vista HCx is about $200, which still seems like a good deal. Based on your comments, I will get the software (City Navigator 2008) from Garmin, Amazon or REI (not ebay).

Steve, this has been helpful. After reading your response and the previous comments, and spending alot of time surfing the web, I have all but decided to get the Legend or Vista HCx. I think the cost will be a bit more than $139 (I now realize that the unit that was $139 was an older version of the Legend - not the HCx). The price on Amazon for the Legend or Vista HCx is about $200, which still seems like a good deal. Based on your comments, I will get the software (City Navigator 2008) from Garmin, Amazon or REI (not ebay).

Based on everything I've read, the PN-40 is a better deal. For $339 you will have the latest in GPS technology (equivalent or better than HCx in signal acquisition) with built in maps that are significantly better than City Navigator. You can also add other maps as additional layers (think of it like google earth for the GPS) for minimal fees ($29.95 for all the maps you want each year), which you can't do with any Garmin product.

I haven't got one yet, but I've made up my mind when I do...

I paid $269 for my Legend HCx but that was in Jan, I had $200 in gift cards for cabella's but the price was a little lower at places like amazon. I saw them for 199 just a couple months after so the Cx should be a good bit lower since its an older model.
Just because there are people selling copies of software on ebay doesn't mean everyone is, I got a counterfit sandisk memory card from Amazon before so there are crooks everywhere. CityNavigator 2009 is out now I beleive.
Garmin works in layers also, at least with city navigator and topo2008, you can select or unselect the maps and they will cover each other. There are third party programs that will make transparent maps that will allow the map below to show though.
The Legend HCx is limited to a 2G MicroSD card as is does not support SDHC. I have heard there are 4G non SDHC cards that may work but I found that I hit the 2025 map limit anyway as the topo maps are all small due to being the same as the USGS quads.
The legend does have some quirks as well. You can log to internal memory or sd card. Internal memory is a little small and the tracks are limited to a certain number of points and it will average longer ones to keep them under that limit. Logging to an sd card doesn't have any size limits but you can't playback a track on the decive. The logs on the sd card are in standard gpx format so no need to export from garmin's software and you can place the legend into usb storage mode and access it on anything then without need for garmin's software.
The newer version of mapsource changed the way maps are drawn and everyone is rolling back to the older because its so slow.

Mine does not do that. I think there's 1 of three explanations:

1. There's something wrong with your device
2. There's poor satellite reception there
3. There's some sort of electro-magnetic interference there

Seems to be a known issue with the legend/vista's, http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=205913 is the most recent thread on it as people test to see if this new 2.8 firmware fixes it or not.

Based on everything I've read, the PN-40 is a better deal. For $339 you will have the latest in GPS technology (equivalent or better than HCx in signal acquisition) with built in maps that are significantly better than City Navigator. You can also add other maps as additional layers (think of it like google earth for the GPS) for minimal fees ($29.95 for all the maps you want each year), which you can't do with any Garmin product.

I haven't got one yet, but I've made up my mind when I do...

The PN 40 is very new but the initial buzz is pretty good. Hopefully, it will push Garmin to do a better job than they have in the past in this under served market. The main drawback of the PN 40 is the small screen size.