Foo - Audiophiles make cyclists look prudent

These are the screws that hold the cartridge to the tone arm. For those not familiar with record players these are tiny 1cm long screws that could not possibly have any measurable effect on sound to 99.9% of people.

http://www.elusivedisc.com/images/SHECFS10-Large.jpg
They can be yours for the low low price of $199.



http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SHECFS10

These are the screws that hold the cartridge to the tone arm. For those not familiar with record players these are tiny 1cm long screws that could not possibly have any measurable effect on sound to 99.9% of people.

http://www.elusivedisc.com/images/SHECFS10-Large.jpg
They can be yours for the low low price of $199.



http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SHECFS10

want :o

I always liked this one (http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8454). And a couple of these (http://www.highcalibercable.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2) would be nice for the iPod.

I always liked this one (http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8454). And a couple of these (http://www.highcalibercable.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2) would be nice for the iPod.

:wtf: The iPod?

:wtf: The iPod?

if you got it hooked up to one of these,
http://www.podcastingnews.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/tube-ipod-dock.jpg

Ahh...audiophiles...the people in an endless search to make their music sound better than the live instruments themselves. :wtf:

Ahh...audiophiles...the people in an endless search to make their music sound better than the live instruments themselves. :wtf:

No kidding. The amount of money that gets sunk into some of these setups would pay for a few lifetimes of concert tickets.

The funny thing is, the deeper I got into music, the less I cared about audio electronics.

if you got it hooked up to one of these,
http://www.podcastingnews.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/tube-ipod-dock.jpg

huh... So, you want to spend a ton of cash to make a crappy digital file sound less crappy?

^^^ iPods can play lossless files, too. Not HDCD or DVD-Audio quality, but bit-for-bit identical to a CD.

^^^ iPods can play lossless files, too. Not HDCD or DVD-Audio quality, but bit-for-bit identical to a CD.


CD sounds like crap too.

^^^ iPods can play lossless files, too. Not HDCD or DVD-Audio quality, but bit-for-bit identical to a CD.

I blech at digital... I use my iPod on the go, or my computer for background music, but when really listening to something, I would go analog all the way...if I could afford it. :o

I blech at digital... I use my iPod on the go, or my computer for background music, but when really listening to something, I would go analog all the way...if I could afford it. :o




I just play live. It's not analog, it's the original source.:p



I also have one of those six foot long furniture cabinet turntables with integrated speakers. The wood really makes it sound natural, it resonates like an instrument.


I find high end audio to sound "cold". Too clean and neat. Real music is a little dirty.

I'll take CD over the squashed dynamic range, cross-channel blurring, and pitch variance of vinyl or tape.

huh... So, you want to spend a ton of cash to make a crappy digital file sound less crappy?

No I'm mostly vinyl guy, I don't even own an ipod. I can go from vinyl to digital so I can burn a cd for the car, but other I prefer my tunes on 12" of vinyl.

squashed dynamic range, cross-channel blurring, and pitch variance of vinyl or tape.


I'll take all of the above over the psycosis-inducing sound of a CD skipping or losing data.



I still use CD 99.9% of the time, but analog does not have a squashed dynamic range unless you add compression to eliminate the noise floor. CD has artificial dynamics that the original instruments did not have, and that only dogs can hear.

To keep a CD from skipping, treat it like your favorite records. The kids these days who never handled vinyl rarely understand how important it is. :D

the funny thing is, the deeper i got into music, the less i cared about audio electronics.


+1

http://www.audioresearch.com/images/VS55.jpg

Live, unamplified music is by far the best, but not everyone plays that so....

To keep a CD from skipping, treat it like your favorite records. The kids these days who never handled vinyl rarely understand how important it is. :D



Vinyl doesn't lose data progressively. CD's do. I don't care how well you handle them. They will lose data.

It's all about the preamp. Ever hear of UA? That's my dream preamp supplier.



http://www.audioresearch.com/images/VS55.jpg

Live, unamplified music is by far the best, but not everyone plays that so....

It's all about the preamp. Ever hear of UA? That's my dream preamp supplier.

?

http://mixonline.com/news/headline/UA710preampWeb.jpg

Vinyl doesn't lose data progressively. CD's do. I don't care how well you handle them. They will lose data.

Well, when mine do, will you let me know?

Audiophiles are idiots.

But at least they won't get hit by a friggin bus. Their own families might murder them however.

I should make speakers.

Audiophiles are idiots.

But at least they won't get hit by a friggin bus. Their own families might murder them however.

I know a dentist who got bit by the audio bug so bad he stopped showing up for work. He was so into the pursuit of audio perfection he was spending all his time at home listening, tinkering, and modifying or in stores demoing potential new gear. His practice closed. His wife left him. The whole nine yards.

I understand buying studio equipment with high accuracy monitors for a flat response to get the best mix possible, and paying top dollar for that.

However, I just have never understood buying "audiophile" stuff like $500 wooden knobs. This type of stuff doesn't improve the sound quality much, and lightens the wallet far more than going with pro grade stuff that the top end mixers use.

An acquaintance of mine showed me his $80K stereo. It was rather amazing, but frankly, a $10K racing bicycle seems considerably less ridiculous all things considered, even if you're not into either hobby.

^^^ iPods can play lossless files, too. Not HDCD or DVD-Audio quality, but bit-for-bit identical to a CD.


Digital formats by there very nature are a lossy format. Digital audio files are sets of discrete signals sampled from a continuous analog signal.

The analog signal is sampled, converted to discrete signals. On playback the analog signal is then reconstructed from the discrete digital signals. A whole host of errors is introduced during this process; quantization error, timing jitter, bit errors, added noise in the form of dither, etc.

Digital audio is the Pringles potato chip of the music world

When the Boomers hit middle age most stopped buying stereos. The business want to stay in business so they just charge more per customer. I will grant you that stereos have gotten better over the years. But most would agree that the whole thing has gotten nuts.

I love magic pebbles.

Btw, they also spend hundreds, and even more, for power cords. Yup.
I could get into some of the really bizarre stuff, but I'll spare you.

Digital audio is the Pringles potato chip of the music world

Snobbery is the Pringles of the hi end audio world. Or something like that.

I just play live. It's not analog, it's the original source.:p



.

Live music IS analog!!!!

It is a signal (varying acoustic wave) that is continuous over all time.

Digital audio is the Pringles potato chip of the music world

Whether you like it or not, all other forms of audio are history.

Ahh...audiophiles...the people in an endless search to make their music sound better than the live instruments themselves. :wtf:
kind of like roadies making their bikes faster then they are.

I can speak from experience..

Most of the source material that you listen to on your ultra-high-end playback system was recorded using equipment with far cheaper components. Even SSL and Neve mixing desks are chock full of mid-grade op amps. Most of the discrete class A stuff in the studio has capacitors and resistors that you can buy for a few bucks. Recording studios just cannot afford to have ulra-high-end everything. Even cabling is just simple decent quality twisted-pair shielded cable.

Mastering studios have the expensive audiophile stuff, but I have never been to a commercial recording studio that had a 100% audiophile-grade signal path. And I have been to a lot of studios. Functional and affordable is the name of the game. The expensive stuff in studios nowadays is usually expensive because it is 45 years old and has some weird "vintage" cache. You can buy a Neumann U-47 microphone for maybe $7000 now, and they sound great BUT they have much more noise and distortion than a $2000 modern tube microphone.

For home use, I buy used... B&W 802 speakers and an Adcom 5800 series amplifier is good enough for me, and probably cost about the same as one piece of ultra high-end cable. I made my own speaker cable out of Cat5 network cable (52 pairs, braided) at a cost of maybe 5$ and equal in sound quality to Kimber.

I am seriously considering making speakers though, judging by the price some of them are going for, and the fact that I already have a full woodshop.

Whether you like it or not, all other forms of audio are history.


This is not true.

Vinyl records and turntables are experiencing a resurgence. Sales of analog mediums have been increasing every year for the last several years along with increases in the number of record pressing plants. Even the major labels have begun pressing records again.

Just take a look at www.acousticsounds.com to see the width and breadth of music available on vinyl and playback equipment available.

The next you know someone will say that vacuum tube electronics are obsolete.

The next you know someone will say that vacuum tube electronics are obsolete.

well.....i guess i'm happily obsolete..:thumb:

Whether you like it or not, all other forms of audio are history.

+1, really. Blaupunkt once sold an in-dash record player, so you can have your beloved vinyl in the car -- but who's going to risk messing up a record by carrying around in their car? If I had vinyl here, I'd still end up digitizing it so I could take it with me every time I'm out of town... if I felt it was worth the effort, anyway.

Even 160 kbps AAC sounds good enough for me, and I play music for a living (LOUD, brassy music, to the point where I wear earplugs whenever we're indoors). The fanciest audiophile stuff I've heard sounded nice, or even effortlessly loud (which I can't do where I live now anyway), but nothing I've seen, in person or in print, is enough to replicate the kinds of ensembles that really get my rocks off.

These are the screws that hold the cartridge to the tone arm. For those not familiar with record players these are tiny 1cm long screws that could not possibly have any measurable effect on sound to 100% of people.

[snipped image]
They can be yours for the low low price of $199.

FIFY

Most high priced audio doodads like these screws, and super expensive cables, etc., are pure snake oil. People who buy this stuff are suckers.

My father spent tons of money on audiophile gear. Yet we could barely afford to feed ourselves.
Screw that.
That makes me feel much better about spending what I spend on road bikes. At least I have a budget.
Personally, I listen to music while riding or in the car. An ipod works just fine for me.

Even 160 kbps AAC sounds good enough for me, and I play music for a living (LOUD, brassy music, to the point where I wear earplugs whenever we're indoors).

Are you in one of the service bands?

This is not true.

Vinyl records and turntables are experiencing a resurgence. Sales of analog mediums have been increasing every year for the last several years along with increases in the number of record pressing plants. Even the major labels have begun pressing records again.


Oh, it's true. The trend you cite is an audiophile niche. And it can work for you to a limited extent. But who cares? The audiophile niche is limited, and it continues to be served. So everybody's happy.

Of course, audiophiles are never really happy. We all know that.

Are you in one of the service bands?

Yup. Not the cleanest, but we play better while moving than any of the others, and are arguably the loudest military music ensemble on the planet. Certainly helps when we don't have to waste any personnel on woodwinds or strings. :D

FWIW..

The last holdout for analog master tape manufacturers, Quantegy, stopped producing all analog tape a while ago. This industry at one time had at least 4 major players in Ampex, 3M, BASF and Agfa. Apparently all the big rock guys hoarded the various stocks of tape when it happened.

They claim they are going to start producing tape again but I am not placing bets..

http://www.quantegy.com/

so yeah..eventually everything will be digital. Even if you buy an LP of the music, the master recordings will have been done on ProTools or some other kind of hard disk recording.

Yup. Not the cleanest, but we play better while moving than any of the others, and are arguably the loudest military music ensemble on the planet. Certainly helps when we don't have to waste any personnel on woodwinds or strings. :D

I know a few guys in the Airmen of Note.

Snobbery is the Pringles of the hi end audio world. Or something like that.

You pretty well summed up this thread. :thumb:

This industry at one time had at least 4 major players in Ampex, 3M, BASF and Agfa.3M stopped making something? I always got the feeling that they're big enough to keep making products well into obscurity. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they still make 5.25" floppy disks...

mmmmmmmm Pringles..........

http://www.alessioproietti.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/drooling-homer.gif

Yeah, why's everyone always so down on Pringles? They may not contain anything resembling "food", but damn if they aren't tasty anyway.

Certainly helps when we don't have to waste any personnel on woodwinds or strings. :D

Best post ever on BikeForums.

(note my user ID)

This is not true.

Vinyl records and turntables are experiencing a resurgence. Sales of analog mediums have been increasing every year for the last several years along with increases in the number of record pressing plants. Even the major labels have begun pressing records again.

Just take a look at www.acousticsounds.com to see the width and breadth of music available on vinyl and playback equipment available.

The next you know someone will say that vacuum tube electronics are obsolete.

You are absolutely right; I was fortunate to hang with some pretty amazing folks that showed me the difference in classical and acoustic tracks on "audiophile" vinyl LPs remastered from the original analog tapes. Isolated turntables, great phono preamps all contribute to audio reproduction that many of us will unfortunately not get a chance to hear.

I'd really recommend checking out the folks over at head-fi - they're tops in headphone and IEM specification and review. A great set of either, perhaps along with a headphone amp can lead to an amazing audio experience.