Mountain Biking - New Bike - $800 limit - Felt or Jamis?

My '99 Trek 7000 exploded a few years ago and has been sent to the bike graveyard. I've been riding road bikes for the past three years but I've felt the itch to get on the trails again. I want a new cross country bike for less than $800.

I get a discount at a local sports store where they carry Felt and Jamis mountain bikes. I've been looking at the Felt Nine Comp (http://feltracing.com/09-catalog/hardtail-mountain/nine-series/09-nine-comp.aspx#) and the Jamis Durango 3 (http://jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/hardtails/durango/09_durango3_spec.html). I can get the Felt for $700 or the Jamis for $500. I'm just looking for opinions on which would be the better value. I will probably be riding this bike 3 or 4 times a month (maybe 50-80 miles/month) so it won't see nearly as much action as my road bikes.

I like the looks of the felt better but honestly I don't think you could go wrong with either. but I think if you could find something with mechanical disk brakes you might be better off. they are more easily adjustable while riding and with the mech's you spend 30 on cables if one brakes but with the hydro if a tube breaks it costs like 80 for a bleed kit. I think you should try and test the above and see what fits better.

Thanks for the input. I never really understood the point of disc brakes on a bike. I never had any trouble stopping myself with v-brakes on my trek but I guess people like the bling factor. Hydraulic brakes sound like a big pain in the ass.

I like the looks of the felt better but honestly I don't think you could go wrong with either. but I think if you could find something with mechanical disk brakes you might be better off. they are more easily adjustable while riding and with the mech's you spend 30 on cables if one brakes but with the hydro if a tube breaks it costs like 80 for a bleed kit. I think you should try and test the above and see what fits better.

Have you ever bought a bleed kit...they aren't anywhere near $80...most can be bought for about $20ish. And how many hydro hoses have you broken? I've been riding hydros for a while and haven't ever broken a hose.


Thanks for the input. I never really understood the point of disc brakes on a bike. I never had any trouble stopping myself with v-brakes on my trek but I guess people like the bling factor. Hydraulic brakes sound like a big pain in the ass.

I guess you don't ride terrain like what I have available around here. FYI, hydros are not a big pain in the ass. Hydros generally require much less attention than mechanicals or V-brakes.

That said, low end hydros suck...and at that pricepoint, you're getting low end hydros.

in that price range it is all about Bang for the Buck, Trek offers more, Gary Fisher can also be had in that range....both are good deals...Felts are very cool but Higher end products at that price all are very similar:thumb:

I guess you don't ride terrain like what I have available around here. FYI, hydros are not a big pain in the ass. Hydros generally require much less attention than mechanicals or V-brakes.


I ride in Marin and Tahoe and the only thing I don't ride in is snow. But I guess I will soon see the advantage of disc brakes.

Should the 29" vs 26" wheel be a factor in my decision? I've never ridden a 29er - does that make tires and wheels more expensive?

Whatever fits better.

I never really understood the point of disc brakes on a bike. I never had any trouble stopping myself with v-brakes on my trek but I guess people like the bling factor. Hydraulic brakes sound like a big pain in the ass.I find not slowing down or stopping in time a bigger PIA.

You . . . . must . . . . ride . . . . ver- . . . . y . . . . slow . . . . . ly.

OP:

The Felt is a 29'er, the Jamis is a 26'er

The felt has an MSRP of over $1300
The Jamis $975


You're asking about 2 different species and level of bike here.

Look at the Jamis Dakota Sport MSRP $1175
http://jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/hardtails/dakota/09_dakotasport.html

Possibly the Durango or Dakota 29'ers (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI297T01-Jamis+Dakota+29Er+Bike+07.aspx) instead of the 26'ers.


Here is a good deal on a Reynolds 631 Dragon (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI297T00-Jamis+Dragon+Comp+Bike+07.aspx)


I know these aren't at your "local sports store", but good deals.

I'm not pimping Jamis b/c I ride one. I just know a bit about them and knew where a deal or two would be.

You could find just as good of a deal on some other nice rides if you do some research on the web. Specialized makes some great 29'ers. as well as some awesome 26'er trail bikes.

Go to your local bike shop instead of your "local sports store" and see what they have for closeout stuff.

I find not slowing down or stopping in time a bigger PIA.

You . . . . must . . . . ride . . . . ver- . . . . y . . . . slow . . . . . ly.
Like I said, I haven't tried discs but I could lock up both wheels at any speed when I had v-brakes which to me means they have plenty of stopping power. It was always the friction (or lack thereof) between the tire and the dirt that was my biggest obstacle when stopping or slowing.


Look at the Jamis Dakota Sport MSRP $1175
http://jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/h...kotasport.html

Possibly the Durango or Dakota 29'ers instead of the 26'ers.


Here is a good deal on a Reynolds 631 Dragon


I know these aren't at your "local sports store", but good deals.

I'm not pimping Jamis b/c I ride one. I just know a bit about them and knew where a deal or two would be.

You could find just as good of a deal on some other nice rides if you do some research on the web. Specialized makes some great 29'ers. as well as some awesome 26'er trail bikes.

Go to your local bike shop instead of your "local sports store" and see what they have for closeout stuff.

I can order a specific model if I want through the sporting goods place so those Jamis's are an option as well. They actually have a respected full service bike shop inside the store. The reason I want to stay there is the 40% employee discount I get through my girlfriend. The Dakota Sport would be about $600 there.

I will just have to test ride a few of these and see which one I like. I'm excited to try a 29er and see how it compares to the ride of a road bike with those big wheels.

As far as the lower end shocks, is there a best of the bunch? I don't see myself replacing the stock one unless it really sucks (I stuck with the Judy XC on my Trek until the whole bike died). I've lost track of the hierarchy of shocks these days.

The Tora on the Dakota and the Felt is a good, durable fork. I'd steer clear of the Dart if at all possible. That would be a "deal killer" for me.

Like I said, I haven't tried discs but I could lock up both wheels at any speed when I had v-brakes which to me means they have plenty of stopping power. It was always the friction (or lack thereof) between the tire and the dirt that was my biggest obstacle when stopping or slowing.

I have never understood the argument that "locking up my wheels" means you have more stopping power. That is exactly why they put Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS) on automobiles -- so you don't lock up your brakes. Skidding is not as efficient as controlled braking. :notamused:

I have never understood the argument that "locking up my wheels" means you have more stopping power. That is exactly why they put Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS) on automobiles -- so you don't lock up your brakes. Skidding is not as efficient as controlled braking. :notamused:Exactly. I have an old Cornbinder pickup that I'm sure I can lock up the back end with the old driveline e-brake - - but that beast would by no means be the star of the skidpad. It would take out all the cones, most of the guys in lab coats with clipboards and the roadside diner in the next county.

you spend 30 on cables if one brakes


I'll happily sell you cables all day long for $20.

Discs give you more more modulation than V-brakes. Also if you bend up you rim after landing a sweet jump (ever take your bike off any?) your V-brakes will be hiccuping and jerking you along until you true the rim up. Disc brakes also save wear on your rims, and allow using rims without a brake surface, which will be lighter and have a smaller crossection.

Discs do occasionally get bent up, but they're easy to bend back and cheap to replace if you need to. I'm running Avid BB7 mechanicals - they're cheap, work great and I love the dual adjusting knobs.

I have never understood the argument that "locking up my wheels" means you have more stopping power. That is exactly why they put Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS) on automobiles -- so you don't lock up your brakes. Skidding is not as efficient as controlled braking. :notamused:

What I meant is that the v-brakes had the ability to stop the wheel so they certainly had the ability to slow it down. I understand now that disc brakes have better modulation and I know the benefits of that. Also, ABS systems actually stop you using a controlled skid so if you couldn't lock up the wheels it wouldn't work. Anyways, the analogy doesn't carry over to bikes because if the front wheel is stopped completely at speed that usually means you aren't on the bike anymore.

I love these threads.

Buy the Jamis. The frames never break.

but I think if you could find something with mechanical disk brakes you might be better off. they are more easily adjustable while riding and with the mech's you spend 30 on cables if one brakes but with the hydro if a tube breaks it costs like 80 for a bleed kit. I think you should try and test the above and see what fits better.

:roflmao2:

I always thought a brake requiring NO adjustment was better.

What I meant is that the v-brakes had the ability to stop the wheel so they certainly had the ability to slow it down. I understand now that disc brakes have better modulation and I know the benefits of that. Also, ABS systems actually stop you using a controlled skid so if you couldn't lock up the wheels it wouldn't work. Anyways, the analogy doesn't carry over to bikes because if the front wheel is stopped completely at speed that usually means you aren't on the bike anymore.I will say again, if in a different way: You must not generally demand much of a bike if you have never taxed a V-brake beyond its ability to adequately slow or stop you.

dminor is in a bad mood today.

I will say again, if in a different way: You must not generally demand much of a bike if you have never taxed a V-brake beyond its ability to adequately slow or stop you.

Or you live in Florida. I have always said that v-brakes are plenty fine. Need to travel some more...

Skidding is not as efficient as controlled braking. :notamused:

I feel like being a smart arse today. "You don't want to lock up the wheels, because, at any thing OVER 35 MPH, stopping distances will be longer,"-Page 8 of the Windy City Chapter of the BMW Club of America High Performance Drivers Manual. But I totally agree with you and all you said about just because your wheels will lock doent mean you'll stop faster. Actually you probably will. Because you'll be on the ground.

I love these threads.

Buy the Jamis. The frames never break.

How many of you ******s snicker at me when I turn my back?

Why would any of us do that? I know that I for one envy your amazing hackness. You're like the chuck norris of hacks. Thats good

How many of you ******s snicker at me when I turn my back?

Wow, you can't even say w#a*n%k_e.r around here...you are a bunch of stiffy's.

can't say sp@z either. See: ****.

I cant say banned under my name either.

Wow, you can't even say w#a*n%k_e.r around here...you are a bunch of stiffy's.

You're wrong. We all have a bunch of stiffies which is why you can't say w*nker because it will turn into a frenzy.

You're wrong. We all have a bunch of stiffies which is why you can't say w*nker because it will turn into a frenzy.

I don't...what U got open in another tab?

eewww...don't do that while you type to me:twitchy:

Both hands on the keyboard, there, liquefied.

I don't understand why people are so afraid of hydraulic discs. I've had the same Hayes brakes on my Rocky Mountain Vertex since 2000. The bike has close to 10,000 miles on it. I've never had a leak, a burp, a fart, or anything out of the brakes.

V-Brakes, however, seriously let me down when I was coming down Nebo Ridge at 45mph. (Nebo ridge trail has a mile or 2 mile long - I've never looked - downhill exit with railroad ties across the trail every few feet.)

Me, I'd go for a Jamis.

I just bought a 08 Felt nine comp. I love the bike! Really nice geometry, half decent components, and Felt has a great reputation in the bike world, well, more road bikes.

Go for the felt, and I also went from V- Brakes on my Giant to hydraulics....


You will not go back!

If you havn't already spent your money you may want to look at fezzari.com they have a full suspension bike for $850.00 that has pretty good components for the price. the geometry is pretty nice too with a 69 degree head angle and they will custome fit the bike for you if you send them your measurements. Ive read a few customer reviews and they say the customer service is pretty good too. Oh yeah I saw their old models on sale but the new ones are better. The wiki peak is the one I'm talking about. I've never ridden one myself but I would gladly trade my extra long gary fisher wahoo for one.:deadhorse:
I've also read good reviews on the Giant yukon fx (also full suspesion) for between $750 and $900 depending on where you buy it. They both have disk brakes so you won't have to make that decision ( disks are good ):deadhorse:

Thx for blowing the dust off this thread...you work for Fezzari??? B/c this turned into a commercial awfully quick. If you look at the spec's, the Fezzari is spec'd lower than the Felt and Jamis. No matter what you think...you can't get a decent dually under 1k.

$850'ville is populated with decent hardtails. Duallies live elsewhere.


Th Giant Yukon FX is also a boat anchor. What is your fixation with dual suspension anyways? You think adding a rear shock makes it better in some form? In both of these cases, the OP would have alot more fun on the Jamis or the felt. I'd prob. go Jamis b/c it's spec'd better...but I haven't heard much about the Marzocchi 22.

No don't work for um just think I'd be a lot happier with one of those lower priced full suspension bikes than I have been on my gary stretch limo fisher wahoo that i've been riding down (as for the question about why I like full suspension) steep boulder filled 3-10" boulders shoots in missouri at chadwick motorcycle park and many other rock and root filled trails. I guess maybe if I hadn't started out riding a cheap bike that was built too long, in my opinion, and the bike shop hadn't sold both my brother and I a size too large frame, which we have learned not too like through the last 2 years and one of which now has a broken chainstay (perhaps it wouldn't be broken if their was a suspension to take some of the beating from the rocks and roots) and perhaps if I rode only smooth singletrack maybe I would like a hard tail a little more.
Oh by the way if you like full suspension and the geometry looks good to you it is worth upgrading the yukon or the fezzari frameset. Just because they are not specked as well doesn't mean much because in 2 years of riding we've replace every part on our bikes (fishers) but the fork and if we liked the bikes it would be worth putting a better fork on them.
If he likes hard tails then he can go for the bikes you're advertising for if not than I simply gave out another option.
You don't own the local bike shop do you, chelboed? I hope your not afraid someone might look at another bike that may or may not be a better bike for their riding conditions and choose for thierself which one they like? I guarantee neither of these bikes is walmart quality, their is a lifetime warrantee on the fezzari frame and the pivot bearings are sealed bearings not bushings, so my opinion is they are worth looking at. Personally I like to have the knowledge of my options before I get suckered into another bike I will end up hating.

Oh yeah maybe you should ask some of the wordcup dh riders about that rear shock thing, maybe they would have a satisfactory answer. It may have something to do with being able to ride fast over obstacles while retaining contact with the ground aka traction or maybe it has something to do with how well they soak up the hits from jumps and drops and allow you to run lower tire pressure without getting as many pinch flats ( iv'e talked myself into it, I want a dually now).

You may be able to find the review on the Giant yukon fx at mbaction.com they seemed to have some fun on a cheap dually, but my opinion is that I like the geometry of the new wiki peak from fezzari (not the old model which is on sale or should I say is a closeout with the same price it always had, just cheaper than the new model.)

Also Ive noticed that someone on a dually is winning 4cross against other guys on hardtails and the slopestyle guys like dually bikes too.

Oh and many duallys have an option for people like you who just love getting all beat up by a rigid bike, it's called lock out.

just one question though, what is so bad about a rear shock and why does this upset people who love riding ancient technology? I guess we could all go back to riding wooden bikes, with wood tires also.

No don't work for um just think I'd be a lot happier with one of those lower priced full suspension bikes than I have been on my gary stretch limo fisher wahoo that i've been riding down (as for the question about why I like full suspension) steep boulder filled 3-10" boulders shoots in missouri at chadwick motorcycle park and many other rock and root filled trails. I guess maybe if I hadn't started out riding a cheap bike that was built too long, in my opinion, and the bike shop hadn't sold both my brother and I a size too large frame, which we have learned not too like through the last 2 years and one of which now has a broken chainstay (perhaps it wouldn't be broken if their was a suspension to take some of the beating from the rocks and roots) and perhaps if I rode only smooth singletrack maybe I would like a hard tail a little more.
Oh by the way if you like full suspension and the geometry looks good to you it is worth upgrading the yukon or the fezzari frameset. Just because they are not specked as well doesn't mean much because in 2 years of riding we've replace every part on our bikes (fishers) but the fork and if we liked the bikes it would be worth putting a better fork on them.
If he likes hard tails then he can go for the bikes you're advertising for if not than I simply gave out another option.
You don't own the local bike shop do you, chelboed? I hope your not afraid someone might look at another bike that may or may not be a better bike for their riding conditions and choose for thierself which one they like? I guarantee neither of these bikes is walmart quality, their is a lifetime warrantee on the fezzari frame and the pivot bearings are sealed bearings not bushings, so my opinion is they are worth looking at. Personally I like to have the knowledge of my options before I get suckered into another bike I will end up hating.

Oh yeah maybe you should ask some of the wordcup dh riders about that rear shock thing, maybe they would have a satisfactory answer. It may have something to do with being able to ride fast over obstacles while retaining contact with the ground aka traction or maybe it has something to do with how well they soak up the hits from jumps and drops and allow you to run lower tire pressure without getting as many pinch flats ( iv'e talked myself into it, I want a dually now).

You may be able to find the review on the Giant yukon fx at mbaction.com they seemed to have some fun on a cheap dually, but my opinion is that I like the geometry of the new wiki peak from fezzari (not the old model which is on sale or should I say is a closeout with the same price it always had, just cheaper than the new model.)

Also Ive noticed that someone on a dually is winning 4cross against other guys on hardtails and the slopestyle guys like dually bikes too.

Oh and many duallys have an option for people like you who just love getting all beat up by a rigid bike, it's called lock out.

just one question though, what is so bad about a rear shock and why does this upset people who love riding ancient technology? I guess we could all go back to riding wooden bikes, with wood tires also.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

He isn't anti-full suspension; that's me. He doesn't see the point in CHEAP full suspension. I agree with him. Cheap FS bikes are heavy, sloppy, and generally....crap. And the bike you're talking about has a Dart 2 fork - not exactly known for having a long life.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

He isn't anti-full suspension; that's me. He doesn't see the point in CHEAP full suspension. I agree with him. Cheap FS bikes are heavy, sloppy, and generally....crap. And the bike you're talking about has a Dart 2 fork - not exactly known for having a long life.


Your right reading comprehension is your freind, he asked what my fixation was with full suspension and I answered.

As for your generalization that no cheap dually can be any good I have read some pretty good things about the fezzari and the new model looks even better than the old, it has geometry more similar to an all mountain and althought the parts arent what you get from a $2000 dually they can be upgraded at anytime, as for the dart 2 not lasting long I've been beating the crap out of a dart 1 for over 2 years and it is still going strong, however the wahoo frame is broken.

Honesty is also your friend and if you take a subjective look at fezzari bikes I think you would see that a company which is building full blown dh rigs and sponsoring racers is not simply into building k-mart crap.

I only put myself through the trouble of telling anyone about these bikes because I wish the lbs would have told me the truth, I may have saved a few more dollars and gotten a bike that would have fit me correctly (unlike the lbs who sold me an oversized bike and then later said they expected me to hang it up in the garage and forget about it after a few months) fezzari takes your mesurements and specs the bike for your size (all for free) which the bike shop did not and I've searched and found some happy reviews about their customer service which I cannot say about the bike shop where I bought my fisher.

Anyhow just trying to help maybe, he should try doing some searches on the internet as well as the bike forum if he actually even wants a full suspension bike.

I'd rather own a cheap dually and have better skills by the time I need to buy another, than to have a broken hardtail and have to go buy another hardtail because I'm skeeeered to buy a lower end (yet professionally designed and built) dual suspension.

Oh yeah I also like to buy most of my high end bike parts online from shops in california because they are usually at least half price of the local bike shop which never treats us right anyway.

Although the Fezzari Wiki Peak appears to be a good value for a full suspension cross country bike, I doubt it would hold up to many "steep boulder filled 3-10" boulders shoots in missouri at chadwick motorcycle park."

I like the DH WC comment...made me snicker.

Oh yeah maybe you should ask some of the wordcup dh riders if they'd ride the Fezzari...I bet they would.


I'm not anti-dually at all. If I could afford a killah dooley...I'd be riding one...SX, Heckler, Preston, Bullit...whatevah. I'm just saying that people get "fixated" on dual suspension thinking it's an upgrade when actually a well built hardtail will beat a mediocre dually hands down.

I'd rather ride a GnardTail than a Pogo stick any day. But...throw a used dually of good quality into the equation...and I'll go for the boing all day long.

Although the Fezzari Wiki Peak appears to be a good value for a full suspension cross country bike, I doubt it would hold up to many "steep boulder filled 3-10" boulders shoots in missouri at chadwick motorcycle park."

The way I think, our wahoo's held up for a while but now one is broken where the dual suspension may have held up a little longer, if not I'd warrantee the frame and if the shock broke I would assume there is a warantee of a year or so but if not I'd want to upgrade as long as the frame is good. All I'm saying is that I've read good reviews and I've seen a youtube video of someone going off a 5' drop to almost flat. I don't know how many times he could do this but I bet my cheap fisher frame would not have liked a drop like that even once nor would my knees or my head when I hit the handlebars.

Oh by the way why do you doubt that it would take the abuse if a bottom of the line hard tail took it for a couple of years before giving out?

I think I'd take the chance if I had the money, but this isn't about me I was simply offering another option or two, remember the giant yukon the guys at mountain bike action thought it was well worth going for that one over a hardtail in the $800 range but hey they may have been paid off although I doubt it I think they were just trying to show a good option for us poor boys.

I like the DH WC comment...made me snicker.

Oh yeah maybe you should ask some of the wordcup dh riders if they'd ride the Fezzari...I bet they would.


I'm not anti-dually at all. If I could afford a killah dooley...I'd be riding one...SX, Heckler, Preston, Bullit...whatevah. I'm just saying that people get "fixated" on dual suspension thinking it's an upgrade when actually a well built hardtail will beat a mediocre dually hands down.

I'd rather ride a GnardTail than a Pogo stick any day. But...throw a used dually of good quality into the equation...and I'll go for the boing all day long.

The question was whether the dh riders thought that a rear shock was all that important, not whether they would ride a fezzari or not but to answer that question, fezzari does sponsor dh racers although they may not be steve peat or sam hill and they may not be in world cup races yet but hey how many of us are racing worldcup dh races anyway? The point is that the bikes have as good a geometry and use as good of materials as most of the rest, the shock has rebound adjustment so it ain't a pogo stick and the fork can be replaced with something better down the road. I know some people can't ride a fork without all the multiple adjustments but my brother and I have been riding on that junky dart 1 fork for over 2 years and to our amazement we are riding faster on oversized hardtail bikes with a crappy fork than most of the people we see with $2000-$5000 dual suspension bikes. So I see no problem with buying a good frame and upgrading the components later or perhaps if someone wants to spend more money at once they could buy one of the higher priced bikes in that product line and get better components to start out with and skip the whole dart 2 fork delima.

Here's the deal you can always change out parts on a good frame to have a better bike but you cannot upgrade the parts on a hardtail to make it into a dually.

The reason I mention this once again is that when I bought a bike I was lied to and told I couldn't get a full suspension (except at wal-mart) for less than $1300 and I only wish I had known about either fezzari or giant yukon fx at that time because I may have saved up a few more pennies. If I progressed beyond what that bike could handle then I would have to buy a new bike, It is not hard to progress beyond what a hardtail can handle, depending on what your riding style may be.

blah blah, yada yada.....

Here's the deal you can always change out parts on a good frame to have a better bike but you cannot upgrade the parts on a hardtail to make it into a dually.

The reason I mention this once again is that when I bought a bike I was lied to and told I couldn't get a full suspension (except at wal-mart) for less than $1300 and I only wish I had known about either fezzari or giant yukon fx at that time because I may have saved up a few more pennies. If I progressed beyond what that bike could handle then I would have to buy a new bike, It is not hard to progress beyond what a hardtail can handle, depending on what your riding style may be.

Incorrect.

I present, The Shockster:

http://www.lightningbikes.com/Shockster%20003.jpg

They have, thankfully, gone out of business I'm sure. It worked so badly....well, as badly as an $800 full suspension bike.

Seriously. We get the idea. You're not happy with your bikes or your LBS. We got that the first 18 times we read your 10,000 word long paragraphs.

I like the DH WC comment...made me snicker.

Oh yeah maybe you should ask some of the wordcup dh riders if they'd ride the Fezzari...I bet they would.


I'm not anti-dually at all. If I could afford a killah dooley...I'd be riding one...SX, Heckler, Preston, Bullit...whatevah. I'm just saying that people get "fixated" on dual suspension thinking it's an upgrade when actually a well built hardtail will beat a mediocre dually hands down.

I'd rather ride a GnardTail than a Pogo stick any day. But...throw a used dually of good quality into the equation...and I'll go for the boing all day long.

The question was whether the dh riders thought that a rear shock was all that important, not whether they would ride a fezzari or not but to answer that question, fezzari does sponsor dh racers although they may not be steve peat or sam hill and they may not be in world cup races yet but hey how many of us are racing worldcup dh races anyway? The point is that the bikes have as good a geometry and use as good of materials as most of the rest, the shock has rebound adjustment so it ain't a pogo stick and the fork can be replaced with something better down the road. I know some people can't ride a fork without all the multiple adjustments but my brother and I have been riding on that junky dart 1 fork for over 2 years and to our amazement we are riding faster on oversized hardtail bikes with a crappy fork than most of the people we see with $2000-$5000 dual suspension bikes. So I see no problem with buying a good frame and upgrading the components later or perhaps if someone wants to spend more money at once they could buy one of the higher priced bikes in that product line and get better components to start out with and skip the whole dart 2 fork delima.

Here's the deal you can always change out parts on a good frame to have a better bike but you cannot upgrade the parts on a hardtail to make it into a dually.

The reason I mention this once again is that when I bought a bike I was lied to and told I couldn't get a full suspension (except at wal-mart) for less than $1300 and I only wish I had known about either fezzari or giant yukon fx at that time because I may have saved up a few more pennies. If I progressed beyond what that bike could handle then I would have to buy a new bike, It is not hard to progress beyond what a hardtail can handle, depending on what your riding style may be.

" It is not hard to progress beyond what a hardtail can handle, depending on what your riding style may be. "
Have you progressed beyond what a hardtail can offer?

" It is not hard to progress beyond what a hardtail can handle, depending on what your riding style may be. "
Have you progressed beyond what a hardtail can offer?

It's broke. What do you think?

It's broke. What do you think?

That means nothing.

Any lump of meat could sit on a hardtail and break it if the trails were bad enough. A skilled rider could ride those same trails with no damage to the bike. Full suspension is for the rider, not for the bike.

Incorrect.

I present, The Shockster:

http://www.lightningbikes.com/Shockster%20003.jpg

They have, thankfully, gone out of business I'm sure. It worked so badly....well, as badly as an $800 full suspension bike.

Seriously. We get the idea. You're not happy with your bikes or your LBS. We got that the first 18 times we read your 10,000 word long paragraphs.

yeah, the problem is that aint no hardtail thats just a funky looking roadamajiger.

As for the 10,000 word letters, I'm just using my ability to type with all 10 fingers.

As for the 10,000 word letters, I'm just using my ability to type with all 10 fingers.

It struck me as, You using your ability to type fluff to hide the fact that your a hack. He He:thumb:

That means nothing.

Any lump of meat could sit on a hardtail and break it if the trails were bad enough. A skilled rider could ride those same trails with no damage to the bike. Full suspension is for the rider, not for the bike.

Allright I admit, you're right, I havn't started jumping road gaps on my wahoo yet but then again that might void the warrantee.

I'm amazed at how much we all agree on some things, full suspension is for the rider, as I said earlier I don't think my knees would like the hit from a 5' drop and the way I see it a full suspension would help my poor little knees out a little.

It is also amazing how many feathers get ruffled at the simple suggestion that someone could look at a good dual suspension bike at a fair price as an option to a bike shop hard tail. I'm sure you would all tell me that all the parts I've bought online were junk as well because they were not bought from your freinds at the bike shop for twice the price.