Road Cycling - Magnesium alloy extruded frames

Yes .. I have sent another similare thread but am desperately searcing for some in depth information. I am seriously considering the purchase of a magnesium alloy frame and would appreciate additionnal information. I am not talking about Aluminum with some Mg but +95% Mg alloy with some other elements. Those tubes are extruded and welded together probably with some kind of TIG or laser method process, stress releived, etc ... Frames branded under Merida (909), Paketa rocket, Pinarello dogma are using such Mg extruded tubes.. beside the usual information such as : lightness, vibration, corrosion .. what can you tell me ..

Thks in advance ..

will probably corrode boefore your eyes.

fsnl
sparky

steel

corrosion does not appear to be a problem if the frame is properly threated .. ie some pedals and stems use Mg alloys and have not shown signs of this problem even after many years..

steel ??

I remember when they used Mg for car wheels. Some of them cracked and failed. But then these appeared to be cast. Maybe the extruded would be tougher.

Joe

Similare issues appeared when they tried to produce cast frames .. and eventually stoppped I believe for the same reason .. I am talking of extruded tubes probably having a stress releive once welded ..

those car wheels are forged and need to be replaced after a couple of thousand miles because the go porous.

i wouldn't really hold any hopes for mg frames...

fsnl
sparky

How about the Pinarello Dogma? There is some info at Competitive Cyclist.

Well, Pinarello says they coat it with a layer of ceramics or something, so that air can't get in. Maybe they have a warranty or something? In any case,if you can afford a Pinarello Dogma, many probably isn't too much of an issue for you. Go for it. And remember to get the Dogma Ego lol 15,000 dollars.

I spoke to a guy who's son rode for a professional team in the Tour last year with the Pinarello Dogmas. He said they literally fell apart at the end of the season, and they had to return all the bikes. The time now rides with a new bike maker. They were definitely not satisfied with the Dogma- it doesn't sound like it has a lot of longevity.

Koffee

Th dogma is sweet , cant really go too much on hearsay....look at the good things they say about Trek

Don't ya think if it was a good frame material someone would be using it? Why do you want to go with Magnesium?

Thks Phat & Koffee .. and just for the record, I don't have the $ to by a Dogma .. although I am quite interested about the fact that an entire team had to return frame but this could be related to multiple causes. Mg alloys are regularly used in the high end automotive industry, aviation etc .. and once properly coated should be fine. Pinarello uses a variation of such an alloy produced by dedaccai and I would not consider them specialist or inovators in this field but rather co. just sticking their label. Mg alloys are known to be super light (extremely low density approx =1,80 g/cm3 which allows to produce a frame with higher dampening properties and rigidity for the same weight .. I am not by any way defending the use of Mg but have yet to find a major problem for their use .. pls keep this thread running .. we will eventually find something .. Cheers

Thks Phat & Koffee .. and just for the record, I don't have the $ to by a Dogma .. although I am quite interested about the fact that an entire team had to return frame but this could be related to multiple causes. Mg alloys are regularly used in the high end automotive industry, aviation etc .. and once properly coated should be fine. Pinarello uses a variation of such an alloy produced by dedaccai and I would not consider them specialist or inovators in this field but rather co. just sticking their label. Mg alloys are known to be super light (extremely low density approx =1,80 g/cm3 which allows to produce a frame with higher dampening properties and rigidity for the same weight .. I am not by any way defending the use of Mg but have yet to find a major problem for their use .. pls keep this thread running .. we will eventually find something .. Cheers

Thought I'd bring this back up to the top since I am looking at a Paketa Mg frame right now. Anyone else have an opinion about this techology or manufacturer.

Well, I was just offered a terrific deal on a Dogma, but after reading this thread, I have reservations about it. At minimum, I would hope to get three good seasons in with it. Anything beyond that would be gravy.

Anybody else know more about these frames. Anecdotes, hearsay, personal experience?

Yes .. I have sent another similare thread but am desperately searcing for some in depth information. I am seriously considering the purchase of a magnesium alloy frame and would appreciate additionnal information. I am not talking about Aluminum with some Mg but +95% Mg alloy with some other elements. Those tubes are extruded and welded together probably with some kind of TIG or laser method process, stress releived, etc ... Frames branded under Merida (909), Paketa rocket, Pinarello dogma are using such Mg extruded tubes.. beside the usual information such as : lightness, vibration, corrosion .. what can you tell me ..

Thks in advance ..

I know I'd like to try one. I personally would not be worried about corrosion. People also say the epoxy in carbon fiber frames degrades in sunlight, but I still see 10 yr old CF frames ridden and working just fine. If they lack real knowledge, people rely on rumors and hearsay, but rumors and hearsay are just that.

The pro team Fassa has been racing on Pinarello Dogma magnesium frames for the last three years, so they must work for them.

Magnesium is supposed to provide exceptional vibration dampening, so the story is they should be comfy.

If I was going to get one, the Merida might be the direction I'd go in if a dealer was available.

The pro team Fassa has been racing on Pinarello Dogma magnesium frames for the last three years, so they must work for them.


Just because a pro-team is paid to ride on a certain manufacturer's frames, does not make the frames faultless, nor are the riders all happy about riding them. You may call me a cynic, but there are reasons why some frames have been re-badged to keep the riders happy.

As for another true Dogma incident, my old cycling partner, <170 lbs., just sent back his dogma after the welds cracked!!! Is that worth the $7000? This is not the first time I've heard of this happening to the Dogma; I've scratched it off my short list. He's now on a six13 Cannondale.

I'm always amused when people say things like, "well, this material must suck because nobody uses it" or "brand X made a bike out of this material and it broke so it sucks". There are a lot of ways of utilising materials and it's the way that it's done that's more important than the material itself. As was previously mentioned, Mg has been used for high quality parts that seem to be holding up strong in both the bicycle and other industries. Likewise, there have been cases of the opposite. I will not speak to the quality of the Dogma but I would like to just point out that it is extremely narrowminded to discount a material without taking into consideration the manufacturing processes. I keep seeing people do this to everything from carbon fibre to titanium to aluminum and more.

I'm always amused when people say things like, "well, this material must suck because nobody uses it" or "brand X made a bike out of this material and it broke so it sucks". There are a lot of ways of utilising materials and it's the way that it's done that's more important than the material itself. As was previously mentioned, Mg has been used for high quality parts that seem to be holding up strong in both the bicycle and other industries. Likewise, there have been cases of the opposite. I will not speak to the quality of the Dogma but I would like to just point out that it is extremely narrowminded to discount a material without taking into consideration the manufacturing processes. I keep seeing people do this to everything from carbon fibre to titanium to aluminum and more.

I don't think anyone said Magnesium sucks; maybe it is not ready for PRIME-TIME. I am not discounting the magnesium usage but the quality of the frame from Pinarello when it comes to its craftsmanship. When I spend $7000 on a bike, I expect a flawless ride, and welds! I could care less about the manufacturing process and how they got the tubes to that point (I happen to care, but the point is: that is not the consumer's responsibility). I'm the end-user, not the manufacturer.

Yes, many discount newer materials when they have not been utilized correctly and to their fullest potential, but "extremely narrowminded"? I think your pushing it. I am very interested in the future of Mg, but not throwing my $7g's at it. The Serotta Ottrott ST is on top now.

I don't think anyone said Magnesium sucks; maybe it is not ready for PRIME-TIME. I am not discounting the magnesium usage but the quality of the frame from Pinarello when it comes to its craftsmanship. When I spend $7000 on a bike, I expect a flawless ride, and welds! I could care less about the manufacturing process and how they got the tubes to that point (I happen to care, but the point is: that is not the consumer's responsibility). I'm the end-user, not the manufacturer.

Yes, many discount newer materials when they have not been utilized correctly and to their fullest potential, but "extremely narrowminded"? I think your pushing it. I am very interested in the future of Mg, but not throwing my $7g's at it. The Serotta Ottrott ST is on top now.

Rebadged Pinarellos? :rolleyes:

There is nothing original about an Ottrott. It is an Exxon Graftek redux. And way overpriced at that. At least the Mg manufacturers are working in new territory.

Rebadged Pinarellos? :rolleyes:

There is nothing original about an Ottrott. It is an Exxon Graftek redux. And way overpriced at that. At least the Mg manufacturers are working in new territory.

Does no one actually read or comprehend on this forum?

My earlier statement was that some frames are re-badged for the pro-peloton, not unusual, and not referring to Pinarellos.

Second, I was not arguing about the originality of a frame, so whether I want and can purchase a Ottrott who cares about its originality??? It is one of the greatest frames on the market today, if you can or want to afford it. I am not familiar with the Exxon Graftek, but Ben Serotta makes some of the smoothest frames around, with customer spec'd customized carbon tubing, which I would pay for any day over being a guinea pig for an Mg frame.

Mg manufacturers working in new territory? It's just another alloy, I don't see how groundbreaking that is, advanced but not groundbreaking.

Magnesium in theory is great, and probably great for single season use for a pro, but the long term problems are tricky. It corrodes, it also undergoes electrolysis if another metal touches it. It's difficult to machine or cut or weld. I don't care what they plate it with, if it chips the finish, it will corrode fast, especially in coastal air. New alloys are not flammable at least.
My guess is for the minor increment in performance, it's not worth it.

Here's a bike with bamboo tubing. whatever...

Here is the summer update :

I got it straight from the Litech plant in Russia, race version of Mg frame, race 2 du's and a TT, put about 2000 km on it, no cracks, no apparent corrosion, feels great, good dampening, BB very stiff .. and if itall disappears in a yr who cares, it cost 450 USD (frame only)..
weight (2.6 lbs for the frame) ..

Don't ya think if it was a good frame material someone would be using it? Why do you want to go with Magnesium?

He has got to be different........ can't be seen on just ANY over-priced bike....

If you go by Star Trek rules, all future alloys will be tri-something: tritanium, trinesium...

For the technically curious, you may be interested in details of useful properties for materials found on bikes. Reynolds collaborate with a number of technical organisations to optimise materials, including the Institute of Metallurgy and Materials - University of Birmingham as well as our key materials suppliers worldwide.

https://vault2.secured-url.com/reynolds/compproperties.html

This thread may be of interest to some. It actually contains some informed opinions about Magnesium...

along with the oddball, "...don't smoke within 25' of the bike...", and, "...the frames self-destruct after one season..." posts.

www.cyclingforums.com/t184429-reynolds-mzm-magnesium-tubing.html

If you ever get sick of your Magnesium bike, you can always just take a small torch to it, and set the sucker on fire. AWESOME!!!! Although it may not have enough Mg (%)to ignite.

Has anyone here ever seen a good sized chunk of Mg burn? Too cool. :D

If you ever get sick of your Magnesium bike, you can always just take a small torch to it, and set the sucker on fire. AWESOME!!!! Although it may not have enough Mg (%)to ignite.

Wasn't that exact thing featured on an episode of MacGuyver? :)



Has anyone here ever seen a good sized chunk of Mg burn? Too cool. :D

I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me. ;)