Mountain Biking - Log overs VS. Ramps

Hey, I was just wondering, if you had your choice, would you prefer getting over a log by means of sticks/smaller logs built up to make a log over type thing, or a ramp/jump off of the log?

Depends on how much speed I can get based on the trail. I personally would not want to see a ramp, want to jump off of it, and really have to accelerate to do so.

I would prefer a ramp.

Was riding the other day and I seem to have a fair bit of difficulty with log overs for some reason..

Neither.

What? Just clear the log off the trail? Seems like a waste.

How about riding over the log w/o a ramp? Are we talking redwood size tree trunk?

if you are traveling with a lot of speed before the obstacle, a ramp. i don't want to touch my brakes. ramps are hokey, though, if you're going slow.

What? Just clear the log off the trail? Seems like a waste.

I think what the Pus was saying was that unless it's like 3' in diameter...just go over the thing.:thumb:

depends on the flow of the trail. sometimes a ramp doesn't work well if in a spot where you can't get the right speed. case in point: we have a lot of logs around here that you have to clean in the middle of a climb - a ramp to jump is kinda' useless there.

IMO, if the trail/log gives you enough room to do so, you can do both.

or, you can learn to j or bunny hop over some of them. start small and work your way up.

this all dovetails nicely with the post a couple days earlier about getting over logs.

I think what the Pus was saying was that unless it's like 3' in diameter...just go over the thing.:thumb:

Oh, I understand. I was thinking like BIG log, like a 50 year old tree that got destroyed in a wind storm.

depends on the flow of the trail. sometimes a ramp doesn't work well if in a spot where you can't get the right speed. case in point: we have a lot of logs around here that you have to clean in the middle of a climb - a ramp to jump is kinda' useless there.

IMO, if the trail/log gives you enough room to do so, you can do both.

or, you can learn to j or bunny hop over some of them. start small and work your way up.

this all dovetails nicely with the post a couple days earlier about getting over logs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMmiNCPRSs&eurl=http://www.chainsmoke.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1789

Like that? I tried that once only with a slightly larger log. Worked Ok, but it would have been better with practice.

I think what the Pus was saying was that unless it's like 3' in diameter...just go over the thing.:thumb:

Yup. If I can bunny-hop it, I will. If I can grind over it, I will.

Also, I'm "old-school" (godz, I hate that term.) Mtn bikes used to have shoulder pads on the frame for extended carrying. I'm perfectly fine with dismounting, climbing over the tree, getting back on, and continuing on my way. I'm riding in the woods to get away from the noise, rush, etc of daily life. I can do a 'cross-style clear of the object in very little time; but longer than jumping it via a ramp, I suppose. Why build something?

If something must be built though, go for the stacked logs/branches thing. It's all about using natural stuff gathered from the area.

depends on the flow of the trail. sometimes a ramp doesn't work well if in a spot where you can't get the right speed. case in point: we have a lot of logs around here that you have to clean in the middle of a climb - a ramp to jump is kinda' useless there.

IMO, if the trail/log gives you enough room to do so, you can do both.

or, you can learn to j or bunny hop over some of them. start small and work your way up.

this all dovetails nicely with the post a couple days earlier about getting over logs.


I know I'm all old and crap, but does anyone else think that as FS bikes have become the standard, that MTB handling skills in general have gone downhill? (no pun intended)

Platy :: still kicking it on a 2000 Rocky Mountain hardtail

I'm still rocking an HT (but I would be riding an FS if I could afford one). For me, I love built up stunts and all, but I totally understand what you are getting at.

I'm still rocking an HT (but I would be riding an FS if I could afford one). For me, I love built up stunts and all, but I totally understand what you are getting at.

I think "stunts" and such have their place. Town Run trail in Indy, for instance, has both - normal trails AND elevated trails with seesaws, jumps, and such. That's the key - offering both so that people don't get scared off.

Still, for having all of that skill for stuff like jumps (using ramps), seesaws, and such, lots of riders I've seen lack basic skills.

For instance:
Can you bunny hop a 1.5 foot log using platform pedals?

You'd be amazed at the number of people who can't.

Avoiding or going "light" over obstacles seems to be a lost art, too. We get what seems like hundreds of wheels brought into the shop for repair that have obviously been slammed into everything the trail had to offer.

It makes me sad, really.

For instance:
Can you bunny hop a 1.5 foot log using platform pedals?



Bunny hop, no. Get over, yes. Also, I know what you mean, as I used to ride a full rigid. But I can go way faster on my HT.

I know I'm all old and crap, but does anyone else think that as FS bikes have become the standard, that MTB handling skills in general have gone downhill? (no pun intended)


No. On my FS bikes, I ride faster and more aggressively than I can on my HT. My handling skills haven't gone downhill, they've changed. It's all about progression. I don't have to pick micro-lines like I used to when riding my old rigid MTB (or even on the HT), now I can focus on macro-lines and go MUCH faster.

Overall, current riding styles are different than when rigid or HTs were the norm.

I think "stunts" and such have their place. Town Run trail in Indy, for instance, has both - normal trails AND elevated trails with seesaws, jumps, and such. That's the key - offering both so that people don't get scared off.

Still, for having all of that skill for stuff like jumps (using ramps), seesaws, and such, lots of riders I've seen lack basic skills.

For instance:
Can you bunny hop a 1.5 foot log using platform pedals?

You'd be amazed at the number of people who can't.

Avoiding or going "light" over obstacles seems to be a lost art, too. We get what seems like hundreds of wheels brought into the shop for repair that have obviously been slammed into everything the trail had to offer.

It makes me sad, really.

Easily can bunny hop a 1.5 foot log.

Can't progress without crashing/ damaging equipment. Got to learn from mistakes.

Coming from the northeast, I've come used to rocks and roots and riding on them is second nature. There are sections where the only way through that section is over alot of rough terrain. Those times it's just easier to loosen up on the bike and let the bike go it's own way.

Logs as others have said depends on the flow of the trail and the general placement of the downed tree. If it's a downhill type of course where jump could be a benefit, a ramp will likely get built up. If it's a normal trail it's a log crossing with peices of limb making the up and down slope. In the case the log isn't that big, just leave as is. With the case of it would really mess up the flow of the trail, assuming it's a fast, smooth and very flowy section trail where it went down, it may just be beneficial to clear most of the downed tree from the trail and leave a bit of it and build a crossing/ramp over it for those that would like to use it.

All I'm using for a mtb is a little 4130 slalom hardtail and I feel faster on it than I did when I had the fisher.

I know I'm all old and crap, but does anyone else think that as FS bikes have become the standard, that MTB handling skills in general have gone downhill? (no pun intended)What rock have you been living under? Full suspension has allowed me to push limits I might not have dreamed of otherwise. In fact, if I hadn't got hooked on FS, I'd probably just be riding dirt bikes instead. Bicycles became interesting (to me anyway) when they sprouted legs. (BTW, I'm OLD)

The Freds' Mtn bikes used to have shoulder pads on the frame for extended carrying.

Fixed!

No. On my FS bikes, I ride faster and more aggressively than I can on my HT. My handling skills haven't gone downhill, they've changed. It's all about progression. I don't have to pick micro-lines like I used to when riding my old rigid MTB (or even on the HT), now I can focus on macro-lines and go MUCH faster.

Overall, current riding styles are different than when rigid or HTs were the norm.

I'm talking about riders who are just now starting, and are starting with a FS bike. ie: those who never acquired the skills that a HT requires. I've been riding road a lot more now (no trails near me), and I'm seeing some of these people coming into the Road World (tm) [lol] as well and they have NO bike handling skills. They just ride over everything. Fine on a FS, not so fine on a road bike.

^^ :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

While there is some merit to the hardtail thing, it's mostly myth. Only thing the hardtail provides now is forcing you to eye better lines.

Oh, and a deadfall is a deadfall; nothing mystic or sacred about it.

http://www.huntsoutboards.com.au/welcome/images/stihl039_lg.jpg

Oh, and a deadfall is a deadfall; nothing mystic or sacred about it.

http://www.huntsoutboards.com.au/welcome/images/stihl039_lg.jpg

Okay. I see what kind of rider you are now. The sort who got all of our local trails closed.

...(no trails near me)...

Well no kidding you don't see the benefit of a fully. You're from indiana and have no trails to ride on!

Just jokes. I was born and raised a hoosier. that said, i'm still riding a hardtail in the rocky mountain west. that said, you also won't find me on ladder bridges or dropping six feet of gnar.

Okay. I see what kind of rider you are now. The sort who got all of our local trails closed.


You just stepped into alot of trouble with that statement.

While there is some merit to the hardtail thing, it's mostly myth. Only thing the hardtail provides now is forcing you to eye better lines.

And you don't have to pick lines to the same degree on a FS so it's more of a rigid/HT specific skill. And if one is learning on a FS bike...your skills develop to suit that bike.

And you don't have to pick lines to the same degree on a FS so it's more of a rigid/HT specific skill. And if one is learning on a FS bike...your skills develop to suit that bike.

Which is absolutely true.

Okay. I see what kind of rider you are now. The sort who got all of our local trails closed.

Are you serious? I guess you don't live anywhere with real trails and real trees. A chainsaw is a necessary tool for trail maintenance...especially after a nice wind storm. Our government agencies who do some of the trail maintenance also use them to clear deadfall.

I'm seeing some of these people coming into the Road World (tm) [lol] as well and they have NO bike handling skills. They just ride over everything. Fine on a FS, not so fine on a road bike.

What? I wouldn't say road riding requires a significant amount of bike handling skill compared to XC or DH.

cut him some slack. try to guess the amount of forest service land or blm land east of the missippi.

Okay. I see what kind of rider you are now. The sort who got all of our local trails closed.

People with chainsaws got your local "mountain biking" (considering Indiana I use that term very loosely) trails closed?

Was it bloody?

Well no kidding you don't see the benefit of a fully. You're from indiana and have no trails to ride on!

Just jokes. I was born and raised a hoosier. that said, i'm still riding a hardtail in the rocky mountain west. that said, you also won't find me on ladder bridges or dropping six feet of gnar.

lol.
I lived in Colorado and Wyoming for several years. I was a mechanic at The Hub in Aspen for a while.

People with chainsaws got your local "mountain biking" (considering Indiana I use that term very loosely) trails closed?

Was it bloody?

Yeah, yeah....no mountains here, I know. It IS very hilly in southern Indiana, but that's the extent of it.

The trails were closed due to the removal of "natural deadfalls" and the damage caused by the construction of ramps and such.
After a period of being closed, DePauw University bought the land, plowed over all of our trails, covered them with gravel, and made it a "nature park". You can still ride there, but there's nothing to do but go around and around.

The other trails that were closed were owned by the Nature Conservancy. They don't like bikes much, but they tended to ignore their presence on this property. We stayed on the trails and kept a low profile. No skidding, no berms, no damage at all if possible. Then someone went in with a chainsaw and cut down a few trees, built a seesaw, a bunch of ramps, and dug into a hillside to make a huge berm. The property is now patrolled and anyone with a bike is reported for vandalism and trespassing.

Okay. I see what kind of rider you are now. The sort who got all of our local trails closed.

:eek: Uh Oh.

*hides*

Okay. I see what kind of rider you are now. The sort who got all of our local trails closed.

I see what kind of "person" you are now. The sort who jumps to blanket generalizations and makes decisions based on opinion and not fact.

Did it cross your mind that people can get permission from land managers and trail coordinators to do trail maintenance with...oh mah gosh...a chainsaw???

Don't jump up in D's face b/c some idiot in your back yard "did it wrong".

Oh and ca7erham...build a booter.

how can fs vs rigid vs ht still be a freaking valid conversation piece. Wow...

As for the log, it depends on the trail. There are really 3 viable options
1 - build steps in the log laterally so that there is an "easy" part, hard and then natural. Gives everyone a chance to learn how to propell their bike over an obstacle
2 - if the trail before the log is fast enough, you could easily put a ramp. Keep in mind landing too. Unless there are experienced riders you need to have room for error, both in the width of the trail and how long the landing is. Remember most beginners fly off of jumps drifting to their dominant hand.
3 - rollover - self expanatory and likely the easiest solution. There isn't much consideration required for this, unless you want to go really skinny.

Always get permission. You don't want to randomly start touching trails. You might find you offend a builder or the maintenance team and/or worse, piss of the landowner/gov't.

Damn, this thread has more zing than most! :)

I started to do trail building and maintenance this past summer, and a chainsaw is a wonderful device when used properly. If it weren't for chainsaws, we'd spend all of our rides stepping over logs 3' above the trail every 30 yards.

a chainsaw is a wonderful device when used properly

Yah...wouldn't wanna hold the wrong end.

Yah...wouldn't wanna hold the wrong end.

:roflmao:

Yah...wouldn't wanna hold the wrong end.. . . especially if you are a chainsaw juggler:

YouTube - Chainsaw Juggling on AA-square Amsterdam

Okay. I see what kind of rider you are now. The sort who got all of our local trails closed.

I want to apologize to dminor for that one. I'm still a little pissed about what happened to the trails here, and am a little sensitive about it.

I'm a bit of a retro-grouch when it comes to mountain bikes too. I think that is apparent.

I had an FSR when I lived in Colorado, and I hated it. I traded it for a first-year Bianchi BOSS. I had a Haro MX3 that I used for jumping off of things, but I never really liked it either. Then I had a Haro Sonix. Didn't like it, either. I just can't get into FS bikes, apparently. Not that you care. Just sayin'.

Well, that was big of you:thumb:

Oh and ca7erham...build a booter.

Is that one of those big wooden ramps?

Hehehe
http://mos.bikeradar.com/images/blogs/DSC07801-480-90-480-70.JPG

Yeah, thats what I figured. Make the far side of the log over the landing zone?

http://mos.bikeradar.com/images/blogs/DSC07801-480-90-480-70.JPGTHAT one looks like fun!

See, my fear with stuff like that (and dirt jumping) is that I'm going to land on my rear wheel and flip over and get racked by the handle bars.