Folding Bikes - London aggression and idiocy

I quite often cycle back from a friend's house at about 11:30 PM; it's around a 6 mile ride on the outskirts of London. I'm always on edge, there's always an indeterminate feeling of danger (though that probably characterises most of London). One of the reasons why I cycle is to avoid the sort of idiots that I'd have to pass on the streets or train, but unfortunately the same post-Thatcher 'everyone other than my immediate circle of friends is my enemy and even my friends would probably screw me over' mentality isn't off limits on the road. This time a passenger in a passing car decided it'd be fun to throw some sort of dessert/pudding thing at me which luckily only hit my rucksack, and the contents exploded on the road rather than on me. I didn't know what was happening in the moment, just heard and felt a bang and a shattering on the road behind, and I was going quite fast on a long straight, maybe 17 mph, so I really didn't need any distractions. I thought my rucksack had come open and something had dropped out but I was pretty sure I wasn't carrying anything too heavy or brittle that'd impact on the road like that. Had to stop and check myself over.

On that same stretch of road a few months back I was travelling around the same speed (and my bike was a little more twitchy than it is now due to certain mod) and a car pulled alongside me and some guy was trying to talk to me. ??

I've cycled considerately and according to the highway code and had cab drivers shout at me to 'get out the ******** way'. I've had people on foot call out at me whilst I'm travelling fast, one of them ordering me to 'Stop!'.

Last year I made the error of cycling past a large group of teenagers on Halloween and discovered that egg throwing is now traditional. Got hit on the back of the head/ear, again had no idea what I'd been hit by in the moment, was concentrating on the road. Felt like a soggy tennis ball with sharp bits (cut my ear a little). Phoned the police when I reached my destination. If it'd hit me in the eye I'd probably be blind and would have come off the bike.


What the hell?

Unfortunately this is the way the world is going to. As comfort level of populations increase and real survival problems decrease, people turns towards destruction. Drugs, patrimony destruction, robbery, people aggression are just some examples of problems related with wealth and individual liberties. I guess you agree with me, no?
Furthermore, this problem is not limited to London but to the whole world.

By the way, what bicycle were you riding?

Sadly yes, I have to agree. It's not quite that bad on my side of the woods but it does happen on occasion. I had someone stick their head out of a car and swore at me from the other side of the street for no reason at at all. I was riding my mountain bike at the time. It's only ever happened once I'm thankful to say. My teenage son told me he had a motorist spit at him while riding his BMX bike, random event for no relevant reason either.

My theory is that some people have such a low esteem about themselves that they have to take someone down in anyway they can in order to feel good about themselves.

Tis sad and tragic...

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Sorry to read of your troubles. I live 300 miles north of you, and though I have seen the occasional example of anti-bike yobbery, they are very rare - rare enough to be extraordinary. Last one was when on returning from a dinner at a friends at about one in the morning, I was seen approaching on my merc by a band of boozed up youths. Amid a jeering chorus, one of them bawled, 'Gi'us ya bike ya b@st@rd!'

Having had best part of a bottle of wine myself, I shouted back, 'Come and take it ya tw@ts!' as I came level with them and gave my legs a spinning in my 60" middle gear. They were close, and sprinted, but they couldn't get within twenty feet. Although I was only going about 16 mph, they couldn't sustain the speed on foot, and as I changed up to my 79" top, they were left cursing in the gloom.

That's about two years ago, and I've had no other yobbery since, although I've been cut up a few times by careless drivers.

Yikes. When this stuff happens, it really sucks; you feel like, well, a moving target. I wonder if that's some of what's behind this--I mean I wonder if there's a reason why there is the feeling of indeterminate danger from the biker's perspective and seemingly random, sh**ty aggression from some of the passing motorists and pedestrians.
Maybe the feeling has to do somehow with the physical nature of biking in particular places. For instance, maybe there's some kind of aggression impulse towards a biker because they are moving at about the right speed and are about the right size to draw some kind of chase instinct. I know people aren't lions or wolves, but perhaps there is some kind of bud of a predator drive that sometimes responds to a moving target like that. Of course, maybe being on a bike is just worse than being a moving target--it's being an easy one. I know avid runners who get the same kind of crap.

I've had people literally run me off the road onto curbs, screaming angry, walkers yell different stuff. As of yet, no one has thrown anything, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Sudden aggression can result from resentment, sometimes resulting as a random unplanned response to something perceived as offensive.

Drunks could attack anything or anyone for whatever reason... nothing to do with the fact that you're on a bike. They'd attack you if you were riding a skateboard.

In my case, they were youths boasting testosterone levels amongst themselves in a pack, with arrogance seldom displayed when alone and isolated away from their group... "small man's disease" a friend of mine calls it. They only pick on safe targets, not necessarily cyclists. They'd leave me alone even if I was riding a pink polka-dot donkey, if I happen to be holding an AK-47 assault rifle (figuratively speaking).

But I think specific anti-cyclist aggression is probably an extension of "road-rage." I can't help but think of those mice experiments where one enclosure has just too many mice crowded in the maze, all competing for dwindling resources and their bit of personal space. They become hostile and extremely territorial. I suspect that whatever space a cyclist is taking up on the road ahead of them, is perceived as a territorial offense by a motorist in the verge of road-rage. Anything can act as a trigger, let's just hope it isn't you on your bike. :(

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Yes - it's not surprising to see that three ingredients are often present; booze, testosterone and youths in groups trying to show what high status males they are.

Watch this -> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WDFh5JdYh7I&feature=related

Wow, I thought this behavior was reserved for Americans! Is the rest of the world just following us down the dreadful path to horrific rudeness and uncivil behavior? I was in England and 5 years ago and cherished the relative politeness. Granted, there are parts of America that have maintained a far more civil decorum, the DC Metro area NOT being one of them. I guess I always thought that anti-cyclist aggression was an "American thing," unique in a place where cars dominate every aspect of our lives. To all you non-Americans out there, is this anti-cyclist attitude new?

For me, at least here in DC where I ride, things have been getting steadily better with regard to
tolerating cycling. It's far from perfect, but in the 12 years I've been riding, it has vastly improve. I am curious to hear if the reverse is happening elsewhere.

I think it is important to keep these outbursts of unpleasantness in perspective. Where I live in the northern UK, such yobbish conduct is exhibited by a tiny proportion of boozed up youths. In my experience, it is one interaction in thousands. I am sure there are bad areas where it would be more common, but most drivers are reasonably considerate, and most youths go about their business in a reasonable manner. From time to time, one may meet some drunken savages, high on alcohol, testosterone and their own stupid arrogance. It's not the general rule though. We can see from the replies that it happens all over from the southern hemisphere, to America and also in Europe.

I think it is important to keep these outbursts of unpleasantness in perspective.

Well said. Even though SF is worse than London, and much worse than Oslo before that, it still isn't too bad. It usually isn't outright aggressive behavior either - it's just people endangering me with their cars through complete obliviousness or excessive haste. Lately I've let it get to me - it's so frustrating that a few morons can endanger my life for no reason, and the police here appear to have more important things to do than enforce traffic laws. Makes me wish I were a green giant and could through them far into the Pacific ;)

The worst I ever had in London was abuse shouted at me from drunk teens. In SF I had a road rage attack that could very easily have been fatal except for a bit of luck. In general, the very few incidents I've had over here have been many orders of magnitude worse than in London - very rarely verbal abuse, but danger of severe injury due to road raging motorists and insanely poor and inhuman urban design.

So I'm the only one here who's been hit by a pudding. Or with a pudding, I guess that should be.

Wow, I thought this behavior was reserved for Americans!... I guess I always thought that anti-cyclist aggression was an "American thing," unique in a place where cars dominate... I am curious to hear if the reverse is happening elsewhere.

It could be a cultural thing. I heard that in places in Europe like France, Italy, or the Netherlands (all cycling cultures), people don't see cyclists so much as a nuisance. It's part of the mind-set of the population, where people would gladly wait and be held-up for an appointment when a street is temporarily closed due to a road-cycle touring race passing through. They'd probably get out of their cars and cheer and have a wine or something.

On the other hand, motorists in other countries just can't tolerate that at all, and lycra might as well be a red flag being waved at a bull.

Which is why I wear cammo shorts! :D
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So I'm the only one here who's been hit by a pudding. Or with a pudding, I guess that should be.

:lol: Yeah, you alone hold that title... haha. If it had hit you square on the chest, you could've brought it home and had a snack! :D

:lol: Yeah, you alone hold that title... haha. If it had hit you square on the chest, you could've brought it home and had a snack! :D

Better still if it had it him in the gob and then he could have enjoyed the flavours without the need to wash his jacket.




'Gob' is Geordie slang for mouth. Geordies are north easterners like me.

A pudding? A pudding! Things in London must be very nice indeed if the citizenry are throwing luxury desserts at cyclists. Round here folks are lucky if they scrap together a few bits of leaves and twigs to throw at me. Sometimes the most they can come up with is an old chipped hole. I can only dream of the day when people throw puddings, chocolate cakes and the like at me.

A pudding? A pudding! Things in London must be very nice indeed if the citizenry are throwing luxury desserts at cyclists. Round here folks are lucky if they scrap together a few bits of leaves and twigs to throw at me. Sometimes the most they can come up with is an old chipped hole. I can only dream of the day when people throw puddings, chocolate cakes and the like at me.

lol :roflmao2:

A pudding? A pudding! Things in London must be very nice indeed if the citizenry are throwing luxury desserts at cyclists. Round here folks are lucky if they scrap together a few bits of leaves and twigs to throw at me. Sometimes the most they can come up with is an old chipped hole. I can only dream of the day when people throw puddings, chocolate cakes and the like at me.

I had a brick thrown at me once while riding up 14th St in DC. A dessert such as pudding would have been far more pleasant. Do you know what kind of pudding it was? Chocolate would be divine!

You know, this thread has taught me to count my blessings. It is a good thing to look positively on what fate throws at you. A man sharing his pudding with you, however unexpectedly is a man sharing one of the good things in life.
:D

I had a brick thrown at me once while riding up 14th St in DC...

Take a lesson from EvilV... to look positively on what fate throws at you. If enough bricks get thrown at you, in time you can build a house!

(You just have to make sure they miss every single time, and you'll be alright.) :D

Take a lesson from EvilV... to look positively on what fate throws at you. If enough bricks get thrown at you, in time you can build a house!

(You just have to make sure they miss every single time, and you'll be alright.) :D

:roflmao2: That is one way to look at it. House or not, though, I would still prefer chocolate putting. With a little whipped cream on top. Yummmy! Now I need to go find me some dessert :D

I've cycled around the centre of London without incident quite often. Of course, 11.30 is pub leaving/last tube time, so the percentage of drunks will be high.

My concern with cycling at that time is not louts (maybe I've just been lucky) but more worrying about someone fresh from a pub stepping onto the road in front of me, or getting in a car and just not seeing me at all.

My worst experiences on London roads recently is the sheer number of cyclists moving in unpredictable ways. Bright clothes, looking over your shoulder and indicating allows you to change safely between lanes when there are only cars, but doesn't help with cyclists diving in and out of traffic. When I first started cycling in central London, I wasn't that used to dealing with this, so when I found myself in a scrum of a dozen or so cyclists near London Bridge waiting for the lights to change, I decided that discretion is the better part of valour, and removed myself to the footpath. Good thing, because when the lights changed, I heard the sound of about 1/2 the cyclists domino-ing into a pile as one of them lost their balance.

Second worst are cabbies. Frustratingly, they always seem to know you are there, but that doesn't stop them cutting you off if it will save the a second or two.

joan

ps if someone throws something brown and runny at you, check very carefully before assuming it's chocolate pudding.

pps. what's this doing in the folding forum?

The biggest concern in London traffic ought to be the risk of being crushed by the swinging rear end of a truck or a bus. More than half the cyclists killed in London recently have been the victim of long vehicles turning after the lights change and trapping a cyclist who has come alongside while they were stationary as they move off, execute their left turn and the rear wheels take a different track to the front ones. This mostly effects the more cautious and timid cyclists, often female, who are reluctant to get ahead of big vehicles at traffic lights and patiently wait alongside them. It is a lethal position to be in, and much more threatening than drunks, be they equipped with bricks or unwanted confectionery.

Not just London it would seem, EvilV. This just in from a new member from the USA introducing himself at the Introductions Forum:

"I'm an old truck driver who keeps an Dahon Speed D-7 in his truck and can be seen riding to the nearest buffet all over the country. Looking forward to hanging out on the 50+ forum and the chance to butt in on some local rides as chance allows. Remember folks never ever ever pass a big truck on the right(we can't see you),not in your car especially not on your bike. Hundreds and hundreds of people start to drive a big truck for the first time everyday. 98% are gone within 6 months and most because they have hit something or someone. With so many unskilled people behind the wheel of semi's it's just not safe to be one the right side of one. I love to here about everyones favorite bike rides. Strangers sharing their local knowledge have led to my most enjoyable rides."

Yes Poko - for most of the world it is the right side of a truck that is the most lethal spot - here and in a few other spots, it's the left, depending of course on which side of the road the traffic drives. Personally - I keep well wide of these things either way and whether or not the guy 'could' see you, there is always the chance that he isn't paying much attention anyway.

Keep alert - assume every driver is a knacker, and ride like they are all insane. That way, we might get by for a while longer before ending up like the rest of the road kill out there.

Jefmcg, I posted in this forum just because I ride a folder and this is where I hang out. . . I don't think the incident was folder-related, though perhaps the 'clown bike' aesthetic does single one out more, and add an extra level of comedy for the perpetrator. In my case I doubt that has much to do with it as I'm on a 20" Dahon.

I've not ridden in central London for quite a long time, but boy, I remember years back trying to get more confident on those roads in rush hour, and I couldn't believe how fine the hardcore cyclists were cutting things. I'd imagine there's a lot of egotism along the main routes. I actually feel less confident now than I did all those years ago as I'm a better cyclist and more aware of potential dangers.

Maybe the reason this article is in the foldie forum, is because... if any type of bike ends up in a nasty accident due to objects being thrown at the cyclist, or God forbid the bike being run-over by a truck... the bike ends up being a fol...

Nah, I can't say it... :o


(sorry guys, too much sugar in my coffee)

I ride quite often in London, and have yet to have a verbal or physical attack from a driver. I have been cut up a few times, all, to my judgement, accidentally, and have seen LOADS of appalling cyclist behaviour. I've seen an Ozzie cyclist and a cabbie almost come to blows over what seemed to be both of their faults. I do suspect that my gorilla-like physique puts off most would-be assailants, and almost all my cycling in town happens during the day, rush hour at latest.

Back home in Southampton, however, I've had various youths and builders shout things from their Barry-ed up Saxos or white vans at me, and one particularly stupid pikey lad scream at me from the pavement. I was wearing a helmet, and as I pulled up at the lights he shouts "Oi, safety boy!!". So I turn and look at him. He shouts "Your Mum!". I continue to look at him. He shouts "I've ****ed your Mum!". At this point, I'm not sure what to do. It seems like he either wants to start a physical confrontation, or more likely, he wants me to act all timid, and try to ignore him. So I don't. Instead, I continue to meet his gaze, and I grin at him. This sends him absolutely apoplectic, and by the time the lights change, he's practically foaming at the mouth, screaming more and more things about my Mum, but interestingly, not showing any signs of wanting to get any closer. I figure I won that one, and that a 250lb man in a suit, with a cycle helmet on, grinning at you, can be an unsettling experience....

^ Yeah I agree Sammyboy... you definitely won that one. "Losing-it" is not cool and anybody who witnessed that confrontation knows who the ning-nong is (and he'll know it's him, too).

At the risk of going off-topic (but hopefully bring-in a bit of balance), has anyone had any positive experiences while riding a bike? For that matter, a folding bike? (lets try to keep this thread in the foldie forum shall we :thumb: :D )

There's a walkway/cycleway along the waters edge around a large estuary near my place (about a 10km loop from my house), and during sunny days I'd take the ol'bike out to suck-in some good atmosphere, fresh air and vitamin D (sunshine). I've had many instances where walkers would greet me "good morning" and "hey that's a nice looking bike" and "thank you" when I stop and let people through narrow sections. My run-ins with decent folk far outnumber those negative grumps, and they sure make my day!

Anyone else have'm? :)