Southern California - Why Dont You Race ??

So today I did the Urban Cross cyclocross race in Palos Verdes Estates. As most people in the south bay know this area is very popular for cycling. Todays race had about 10-25 people entered into each catagory. However, I noticed about 500 cyclists riding around the area today who were NOT in the race. I just wonder, what are your reasons for NOT racing ?
From my experieces in jogging, the average race gets about 3,000 - 6,000 runners in a 5k or 10k. However, I have never seen more than 20-30 people in a cyclocross race in the south bay yet there are thousands of riders in the area all the time.
Most of the riders I see around the streets have full jerseys, expensive bikes and appear to be dedicated cyclists.
Why dont they race ? Why dont you race ? Just curious......

I don't race bikes for the same reasons I don't race cars, speedboats or airplanes.

Most people just aren't that competitive. Or good enough. Or care to put themselves at risk. Well more risk than JRA anyway.

I ride to relax, take my time, enjoy the outdoors.
Competing kind of takes that away, doesn't it.

Their faster than me? Good for them. But I bet I had just as much fun!
Maybe even more.

You're making a judgment based on very limited data. Those who race cyclocross are a small subset of those who race. The most popular type of racing in SoCal is road racing (criteriums). The bigger criteriums in SoCal attract 500+ racers.

My wife does running races and only the biggest races in SoCal attract thousands. You're lucky if the average 10K get 1,000 runners. There are a lot more people who run seriously than ride seriously. Also, running races generally don't require much in the way of "race skill" and running races have MUCH less risk involved than cycling races.

Basically, you're trying to compare apples to oranges.

BTW, I race because I like to race.

Like mentioned before it's cyclocross, not crits. Crits are pretty popular in Socal. Check out El Dorado Crit in Long Beach as well as Torrance Crit.

As for why I don't race, I'm just not in that kind of shape yet. I used to be in good running shape about 2 years ago in high school. Ran track and played soccer all 4 years, hit college took a break the first year took up cycling in the summer and now I'm trying to get into decent shape again. I want to race even if I'm not great at it, racing in general is like a high...it's fun.

As for why there are more runners vs. cyclist racing, running is cheaper. Much, much, much cheaper to compete.

I didn't race before because I didn't think I had the fitness to do it. In all honesty, I did. I've got a few races scheduled next year, and joining a team.

I've been running competitively for a few seasons now; while the Baker 2 Vegas run relay is my holy grail of events, I by far enjoy cycling more.

I do race, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for most people to not want to race. Mass start bike racing requires a very different skill set than riding in group recreational rides, and carries a lot higher risk than those rides. It also sucks up a huge amount of time-- you really can't just race once in a while, you have to race pretty regularly and focus a lot of your riding on being prepared for it. In running races most people are trying to get a better time than last time. In bike races (mass starts) the time is irrelevant-- just the order you cross the finish line matters.

I like to compete in activities that I know I'm very good at. Cycling is not one of them.....well, except for posong. :p :D

I like to compete in activities that I know I'm very good at. Cycling is not one of them.....well, except for posong. :p :D

If I followed that mantra I wouldn't compete at all.

I used to race, mostly road races in the 70's and 80's. Then I did some mountain bike races (and even one cyclo-cross!) in the late 80's/early 90's.

For me, it was just a whole lot of training focused on a relatively short-time event.

Now I ride double-centuries and try to finish in the best time possible (for me), knowing that there will be lots of riders who will be faster! A double gives me a full day of riding, i.e. more bang for my training and entry fee buck. So yes, it's somewhat competitive, but it's not a race.

Same thing with climbing events like Breathless Agony. It's not a "race" in the true sense, but everyone (pretty much), is going as fast as they can to either post a personal best time, or finish ahead of their buddies. So it's fun, competitve and it lasts a whole lot longer than the average Crit. or even local road race (yes, there are exceptions!).

Rick / OCRR

I like to compete in activities that I know I'm very good at. Cycling is not one of them.....well, except for posong. :p :D

And spellong.

SunFlower, wasn't that your first race?

I do triathlons b/c to me, they are more fun. I know that I will never be competitive at a pro level, whether in cycling, running, swimming, or tri's, but I enjoy all three. Therefore, I do what I enjoy the most, that is a combination of all three. I might try a road race at some point, just to see (on my road bike, not my tri bike!), but I doubt I would do it on a regular basis, like I do for tris.

As to why more people overall don't bike race as compared to foot race, well, there is a general perception (fueled by TdF press coverage) that bike racing is for pros only, whereas foot races are viewed as something anyone can do, and the goal is just better fitness as opposed to winning. Witness the popularity of marathons as a life goal (and something similiar does apply to triathlons, I admit), while very few people have a life goal of competing in a century (or other long distance bike race/ride)

SunFlower, wasn't that your first race?


yes

I do triathlons b/c to me, they are more fun. I know that I will never be competitive at a pro level, whether in cycling, running, swimming, or tri's, but I enjoy all three. Therefore, I do what I enjoy the most, that is a combination of all three. I might try a road race at some point, just to see (on my road bike, not my tri bike!), but I doubt I would do it on a regular basis, like I do for tris.


One of the things that you'll probably find is that if you're less than superhuman your first few races will be very disappointing. It's not necessarily because you can't do it, but because there's a huge skill set that you won't get unless you do a lot of the big race-oriented training rides and a few races. Even the big race oriented rides don't give you the full flavor. It takes most people the better part of a full season (or more) to get comfortable and feel like they're racing. I got dropped shortly after the line in my first crit, and now I race at a pretty high level.



Witness the popularity of marathons as a life goal (and something similiar does apply to triathlons, I admit), while very few people have a life goal of competing in a century (or other long distance bike race/ride)

Once they start getting into longer rec rides it seems that lots of people get interested in riding centuries-- and I think a century is way easier than a marathon. It's getting people to get up to doing 30+ miles at a stretch that's probably the hard part.

Once they start getting into longer rec rides it seems that lots of people get interested in riding centuries-- and I think a century is way easier than a marathon. It's getting people to get up to doing 30+ miles at a stretch that's probably the hard part.

True, but those are people who are already cycling. You don't find anyone who is not a cyclist who says "I'm going to ride a century", but you do find plenty of people who don't jog/run, who say "I'm going to run a marathon", and that gets them into running/jogging, whereas there is no draw into cycling (other than TdF, and that just reinforces the false view that only pros race)

I do triathlons b/c to me, they are more fun. I know that I will never be competitive at a pro level, whether in cycling, running, swimming, or tri's, but I enjoy all three. Therefore, I do what I enjoy the most, that is a combination of all three. I might try a road race at some point, just to see (on my road bike, not my tri bike!), but I doubt I would do it on a regular basis, like I do for tris.

As to why more people overall don't bike race as compared to foot race, well, there is a general perception (fueled by TdF press coverage) that bike racing is for pros only, whereas foot races are viewed as something anyone can do, and the goal is just better fitness as opposed to winning. Witness the popularity of marathons as a life goal (and something similiar does apply to triathlons, I admit), while very few people have a life goal of competing in a century (or other long distance bike race/ride)

While this is true to an extent, you can't just wake up in the morning and run a crit. You can do that with a 5k. Even the Cat 5's in our area are pretty fast compared to the average rider. A 5k race isn't going to be hampered by hundreds of people off the back, whereas a crit or road race will. There are fun rides which fill the gap, but the initial costs to do a century fun ride are about $1,000 as opposed to about $150 for a 5k.

Because I'm too fat...there, I said it.

Ralph

Also, a lot of people are simply not competitive by nature.

yes

So why didn't you race before this past weekend?

So why didn't you race before this past weekend?


For a few reasons..... - I didnt know about any local races that I could enter. When the Tour of California came through Redondo Beach I knew so little about cycling racing that I thought I would go down that morning and enter the race. I thought it would be just like a normal running race where everyone can enter. In running races the fastest in the world run with the slowest.

I looked into mountain bike races and they were all at least a few hours drive away. Also, when I looked at distances for the races they were between 10-100 miles long. At that time I was riding about 10 miles a MONTH and I could barely ride up a hill. I would have entered though had they been closer to home.

For cyclocross I first saw them racing in about early October in PVE. That was the first I had ever seen or heard about that type of racing. I asked around and bought a cross bike. So.....I entered my first race yesterday.

I also plan on racing mountain bikes this summer and some crits in the local area.

I'll race no matter how fast or slow I am. Pride is a sin and fear of embarrasement will forever limit you in life.

When I see this chaps riding around on $5,000 bikes, doing 600 miles a month, wearing full jerseys, knowing EVEYTHING about cycling, bikes, pro's, training, and blah blah blah and they wont even enter a race its pathetic.

I believe its important to support your sport and the support the people who are trying to provide opportunities for racing and grow the sports popularity.

btw - I compete in just about every other sport I play. Tennis, surfing, running, basketball and boxing.

When I see this chaps riding around on $5,000 bikes, doing 600 miles a month, wearing full jerseys, knowing EVEYTHING about cycling, bikes, pro's, training, and blah blah blah and they wont even enter a race its pathetic.

Pathetic? Nah. Being serious about cycling as a hobby doesn't mean you have to race.

Personally, I get a little burnt out on spending money to ride my bike. I do some mountain bike races and some organized road events, but I try to limit them. Riding a bike does different things for different people. Bikes allow me to escape and explore, something I wouldn't feel if I was racing every weekend and consumed by training.

I use to race then started a family and didn't have time for the training. Although I don't run my impression is that you can train on your own to fit it in to your daily schedule. For mass start bike races you need to train in a group to develop the skills that are needed to not only be competitive but safe. This requires that you have a constant schedule that usually happens in the prime hours of the day or weekend.

Its already been mentioned but I'll more than likely miss a lot less work if I trip in a running race verses going down at 30mph in a crit!

For a few reasons..... - I didnt know about any local races that I could enter. When the Tour of California came through Redondo Beach I knew so little about cycling racing that I thought I would go down that morning and enter the race. I thought it would be just like a normal running race where everyone can enter. In running races the fastest in the world run with the slowest.

I looked into mountain bike races and they were all at least a few hours drive away. Also, when I looked at distances for the races they were between 10-100 miles long. At that time I was riding about 10 miles a MONTH and I could barely ride up a hill. I would have entered though had they been closer to home.

Much of this probably applies to why many people don't race.


For cyclocross I first saw them racing in about early October in PVE. That was the first I had ever seen or heard about that type of racing. I asked around and bought a cross bike. So.....I entered my first race yesterday.

How did you do?


I also plan on racing mountain bikes this summer and some crits in the local area.

Mountain bike racing was... interesting. I had way more fitness than anyone else in my category but I couldn't go downhill well or do anything technical. :o


I'll race no matter how fast or slow I am.

More power to you.


Pride is a sin

:wtf:


and fear of embarrasement will forever limit you in life.

I wouldn't say that people don't race out of fear of embarassment, that's a bit of an oversimplification. Not being interested in competition or wanting to train to be competitive does not equal fear of embarassment.


When I see this chaps riding around on $5,000 bikes, doing 600 miles a month, wearing full jerseys, knowing EVEYTHING about cycling, bikes, pro's, training, and blah blah blah and they wont even enter a race its pathetic.

I'm going to pretend you didn't say that. I'm really going to pretend you didn't say that.


I believe its important to support your sport and the support the people who are trying to provide opportunities for racing and grow the sports popularity.

Being interested in the sport as a spectator and being interested in the sport as an observer are not intrinsically linked. How many people watch the super bowl but don't actually play football, or do more than an occasional game of "touch football" with freinds or family? There is a competitive sport "cycling" and there is a recreational activity "cycling" that share many characteristics and equipment, but one can be interested in the recreation without the competition. And being interested in the recreation, it follows that one may be inclined to spectate the competition, but not want to participate.


btw - I compete in just about every other sport I play. Tennis, surfing, running, basketball and boxing.

That just shows that you are a competitive person. Most people don't have that personality type. I am actually not a very competitive person, I don't really "compete" in many activities and I was reluctant to race. I race mainly because I enjoy pushing myself, and I "fell in" with a group of riders that raced. But I don't have that aggressive drive needed to really do well at something like a crit.

I'm not interested in cycling competitively. Even the 5K events I participate in as a "runner" aren't competitive for me, beyond competing against myself; I do them for charity. I certainly don't need to be flamed by you because I'm not suffering from testosterone poisoning.

Racing is one aspect of riding. Not the greatest aspect nor the most popular. Simply one of many.

If a person chooses to pursue a race schedule, it is probably best to devout as much time as possible to that end and not any other pursuit. Teammates would probably appreciate that most of all.

In some cases the only difference between a ride and a sanctioned race is the entry fee.

I believe it's important to support your sport and the support the people who are trying to provide opportunities for racing and grow the sports popularity.

Cycling isn't a sport for all of us. For me the bicycle is my preferred means of transportation. Sometimes I'll take joy rides, just as many do with their cars. But then just as most people who use cars to get around don't race them ... well, you fill in the rest.

I kind of agree with SunFlower's observation. There are a lot of dedicated cyclists out there who are not real racers like umd, but are in good shape and have invested a lot of money in bikes and equipment. These guys should attempt something more competitive than the Solvang Century or the Wild Flower. Unfortunately there are very few adequate races for this kind of cyclists here in SoCal. Crits are for the "black belt" guys, not for the average avid-but-recreational cyclist. By "adequate races" I mean something like what PBAA organizes in AZ - El Tour de Tucson, El Tour de Phoenix etc. Shhhh - they actually call those "rides", the "race" word might be offensive to some people. ;) Anyway, most of the participants there actually race it to the best of their abilities. And it is fun! Unfortunately there are no such events in CA and maybe this is because there is no enough interest. I know other recreational athletes in other sports (running, soccer, tennis, golf) and they all train and invest money towards some measurable goal - run 5K under 30 mins, shoot 95 on a par 70 golf course, or simply kick their best buddy's arse :D. One doesn't have to be a bad-ass racer to enjoy the competition. I've never heard those friends of mine talking about the scenery or the wild flowers :rolleyes:. And I've always seen them drinking beer together after the race/game. Are cyclists sore losers?
As for myself - I'll give the Bulldog bike race another try. I'll have my arse kicked by a bunch of triathlonists but who cares. If I beat my time from last year I'll be happy. :D

I don't race and I've never gone on a club ride.

When I think "racing", I think "Lance" and "exhaustion" and "blood coming up from lungs" and real potential for a crash in a crit or mass start.

I suspect when many non-cyclists see "serious" cyclists (roadies), they think "racers" and think "God that looks uncomfortable" and "taking your life in your hands" and "no way I would do something like that".

I'm a pretty mellow guy and I have known some cyclists who raced, and to my disappointment, they were type A guys who just transferred their ultra-competitive nature into their hobby. They hammered at work, they hammered on their bikes - they made "play" work, it was like they didn't know any other way.

I've never gone on a club ride because I don't own a $2,500 bike, a jersey, or clipless pedals.

Cycling isn't all about racing. If you need to race to enjoy cycling, I kinda feel sorry for ya.

Personally, I don't race much...not because I don't enjoy it, but because I always seem to get the rules confused with those of rollerball... :eek:

and I'm lazy and slow. :D

I enjoy my current state of delusion that comes from mostly riding solo, without a computer. If I rode with other people I might just find out how slow I really am. Ignorance is bliss.

Mountain bike racing was... interesting. I had way more fitness than anyone else in my category but I couldn't go downhill well or do anything technical. :o


You were one of THOSE. :P

When I did the 12 Hours of Temecula, there were a bunch of people who were extremely fit and could kill the climb at the front of the course, but crashed a lot on the backside on the loose, steep chutes. I'm not the most skilled rider, but I never crashed on those chutes.

For mass start bike races you need to train in a group to develop the skills that are needed to not only be competitive but safe. This requires that you have a constant schedule that usually happens in the prime hours of the day or weekend.

That's true at first, but once you've got the skills you can train pretty (if not better) well on your own or with small groups. How long it takes to get to that point can vary a lot from person to person.

When I see this chaps riding around on $5,000 bikes, doing 600 miles a month, wearing full jerseys, knowing EVEYTHING about cycling, bikes, pro's, training, and blah blah blah and they wont even enter a race its pathetic.


Do you think the same thing when you see people driving around SoCal in sports cars that have 300+ hp? They can tell you all sorts of things about cars and which ones have what handling blah blah, but very few of them race, even though there are tracks available around here.



I believe its important to support your sport and the support the people who are trying to provide opportunities for racing and grow the sports popularity.

Cycling is a lot of different sports. There are racers, tourists, commuters, ultra-tourists, hippy bent riders, and whatever. I love racing, and I do a lot to support it, but to say that everyone who rides a bike should support racing (and a particular type) is a little silly. Even if you restrict yourself to the leg-shaving, lycra-clad road crowd, lots of them aren't interested in racing. They might follow it casually, but I suspect they'd rather ride than watch other people ride.

Even within racing there are a bunch of different sports with very different skill sets. Road, crits, time trials, track (and within track there are very distinct disciplines), cyclocross, mountain (which includes downhill, x-country, and trials), bmx, and hipsters racing alleycats. I'd be really happy if we could get more spectators out to watch track racing-- we have some great racing here in socal, but few spectators. And most cyclists (me included) would rather ride than watch-- we need to get the people who are into spectator sports, who would rather watch than ride, and get them to come out and watch.

Personally, I don't race much...not because I don't enjoy it, but because I always seem to get the rules confused with those of rollerball... :eek:


You just need to ride keirins.

The biggest reason I don't race is I am faster than y'all and find it quite boring always winning. Sometimes I win by such a large margin, I have already showered and eaten before the second place rider comes in. If you guys would pick up the pace and give me a challenge, I may give it a shot.

The other reason, and the one that is closer to the truth, I lack the training discipline required. I would be afraid I would end up getting burnt out. I prefer to just have fun with bicycling.

I enjoy watching racing though and part of it is I realize how much effort racers put forth both while training and during the race.

Other goals take precedence in my life...

Other goals take precedence in my life...

You have goals? :roflmao2:


Liar. :notamused:

You have goals? :roflmao2:


Liar. :notamused:

I aspired to drink more beer this year than I did last year.... and I have sat down for that challenge! :p

Do you think the same thing when you see people driving around SoCal in sports cars that have 300+ hp? They can tell you all sorts of things about cars and which ones have what handling blah blah, but very few of them race, even though there are tracks available around here.

This analogy with the sports car is not quite right. Guys waste tons of money on these cars to show some status, make their neighbour envious and ultimately to get laid. It's got nothing to do with the sport of car racing (if you call it a sport). Even if you spend $12,000 on a bike, that won't show any status and it will hardly make your neighbour envious unless he is a cyclist. Even then, you better kick his arse in a race, otherwise he'll just get that extra bit of enjoyment that comes when you pass a guy on a $12K bike. And I don't think it improves one's chances to get laid either, but I'll leave this issue to the ladies. :D

........Do you think the same thing when you see people driving around SoCal in sports cars that have 300+ hp? They can tell you all sorts of things about cars and which ones have what handling blah blah, but very few of them race, even though there are tracks available around here........

Car racing destroys cars even without crashing. Few of us who can afford a sports car are willing to trash it just for fun. A racing bicycle can be enjoyed by almost any rider.

Bought me a racing bike sew-up tires & all back in the 80s. I had the idea of getting in condition & racing for the hell of it. Never happened. I'm not a racer. I ride to enjoy life & get away from my problems, not create more. It's the pure joy of life on 2 wheels that motivates me.

[QUOTE=bitingduck;8027668]Do you think the same thing when you see people driving around SoCal in sports cars that have 300+ hp? They can tell you all sorts of things about cars and which ones have what handling blah blah, but very few of them race, even though there are tracks available around here.QUOTE]

to some extent yes i do. i used to race cars and motorcycles. i dragged race and road raced my motorcycle at willow springs.
in los angeles it is well known we are the car capitol of the country. however, we are a "all show, no go" city when it comes to racing. this city is all about having what LOOKS like a fast car and PRETENDING you have a fast car but our tracks are empty. so empty that 4 of the major ones closed. in the organized racing i used to ask people why they didnt race and you would get a million excuses. however, those same guys would spend $30,000 on performance modifications and blab all day long about how much horsepower their cars made. in texas or georgia or florida guys would always show up and race and never complain about rules or anything else. they put up or shut up. LA is just a different city. all image.

i dont blame most people for not racing bicycles, i just wonder about those guys who are serious cyclists who rarely ever or never race. some people on this thread mentioned the training required but the way i see it is if you are going to go out and ride 40 miles that day why not just enter the race and use it as your training ride ? racing always makes people faster and who would be opposed to that ? i always believe life is about challenging yourself and making yourself better. and having fun while you do it.

it was pretty lame to see 20 people in my catagory in the race and see 40 people ride by on pve drive west in 20 minutes while i am airing down my tires.

racing is fun. i met a bunch of new people, got a good workout, learned a few things, supported cycling and had a blast. it was something new. the guys who were just out for their sunday riide were doing the same ole thing.

i;ve never been afraid or embarresed by losing. and i lost badly on sunday, lol. i bet i had more fun than the sunday riders i saw cruising around though.

i think alot of people are put off by cycling racing because of the arrogance and snottyness of alot of cyclists. something that does not exist with runners and running races. i now know that cyclist put alot of meaning into the type of bike you ride and judge you based on it. they are jealous of those who have expensive bikes and they look down on people who have cheap bikes. its so junior high its pathetic.

anyway, i would encourage anyone who is thinking about hitting up some bike races to give it a try. life is short, enjoy your health while you have it and make the most of it. .....or stay at home and be BF champ

I like to race people that don't know it's a race. It makes it easier to win.

Hi SunFlower,

This is against my better judgment to post in this thread again, but here we go. A lot of the people on these forums make fun of expensive bikes, etc, but it is just that -- fun. However, you seem to be ready to make a statement the "arrogance and snottyness" based on your very limited exposure to the sport -- both recreational and competitive.

After 34 seasons of racing, training, commuting, and riding I will say that you are well off the mark about other people and their decisions to race or not race. Your attitude about racing is fine for you but I don't think that it applies to most cyclists -- racers or recreational riders. I really don't see how you can say that your race experience was more fun for you than the ride that others were doing. I have just as much fun on many group rides as I do in races. It's just different fun.

Whether I'm at a race or on a group ride, people generally don't care what you're riding unless you're riding badly. By badly, I don't mean slow. Slow is fine as long as you ride straight, safely, and consistently. If you own an expensive bike and ride badly, then people will say something. If you're on an inexpensive bike and ride badly, people MAY cut you some slack.

Racers care even less about what you're riding. Yes, people may ooh and aah about a nice bike, but when it comes to racing the rider is more important than the bike. You'll elicit more comments by riding badly in a race (same criteria) than you will by showing up with an uber-expensive bike.

From one of your other threads, I don't think that you realize the training commitment for racing. You can't go to a criterium and hang with the pack if you're just riding "40 miles" on race day. Try that and you end up with less than 10 miles of training off the back of the pack before the officials pull you off the course. These days I only put in about 6K miles per year and that is barely enough to be somewhat competitive.

My other hot button is motorsports. Racing a car is not a small undertaking. Much more so than bicycle racing (though sometimes I wonder). Real auto racing requires serious personal and financial commitment. Having a fast car requires much less of a financial commitment though from a hobby level, the personal commitment may be similar. My brother goes to several track days each year to drive his Porsche at somewhat high speed. That isn't racing but he enjoys it and it helps his driving skills in a relatively safe environment.

Finally, I am curious about your definition of major race tracks in the LA area. Riverside closed because the land became more valuable as a housing development, not for a lack of spectators. Ontario was a different story but that only make two, not four. Also racers don't keep race tracks in business, spectators do. You can't keep a major race track in business by running regional SCCA races. You need big time races that draw spectators, who probably don't race but spend a lot of money watching the sport and buying racing paraphernalia.

So it's great that you want to race but don't ding people just because they want to ride but not race.

By "adequate races" I mean something like what PBAA organizes in AZ - El Tour de Tucson, El Tour de Phoenix etc. Shhhh - they actually call those "rides", the "race" word might be offensive to some people. ;) Anyway, most of the participants there actually race it to the best of their abilities. And it is fun! Unfortunately there are no such events in CA and maybe this is because there is no enough interest.

It's only a race if everyone thinks they're racing. If people want to ride those for personal best times or to beat their friends, that's cool, but I wouldn't call them races. There are bunches of organized centuries and doubles and metrics and whatevers in CA, and people probably ride them in similar ways, but there's also a huge USAC racing scene where people get very competitive.

JimmyNH and SunFlower, you two both just don't get it. Not everybody cares about competition. They don't derive pleasure out of beating someone and showing dominance, they get pleasure out of doing the activity. Part of the reason I didn't want to race initially was that I thought the training would take away from my enjoyment of riding just for the sake of riding. In a way it has, but I still don't ride just for training, I still do rides for fun in addition for training, even though I know often times it may be detrimental to my training. Most people don't want to have to deal with any of that; just ride for fun, enjoy the activity, and leave it at that.

There is another group of people that you are not considering also, and that is former racers. There are many guys that I ride with that used to race. They raced for a while when they were younger and got it out of their system and are now just content to ride the weekly club ride as though it were a race. Racing is expensive and takes a lot of time and commitment, traveling all over the place to races, and generally eating up weekend time that is valuable to a lot of people, especially people that have families.

Regarding the car analogy, many people buy cars like Corvettes and Porches and Ferraris, etc. that just wanted a nice, fast, expensive car. The notion that the car has to be raced to validate it's existence is ridiculous.

This analogy with the sports car is not quite right. Guys waste tons of money on these cars to show some status, make their neighbour envious and ultimately to get laid. It's got nothing to do with the sport of car racing (if you call it a sport). Even if you spend $12,000 on a bike, that won't show any status and it will hardly make your neighbour envious unless he is a cyclist. Even then, you better kick his arse in a race, otherwise he'll just get that extra bit of enjoyment that comes when you pass a guy on a $12K bike. And I don't think it improves one's chances to get laid either, but I'll leave this issue to the ladies. :D

You live in CA and say that? Are you stoned?

It's as much about conspicuous consumption as the sports cars are, and in many cases it's the same people.

SunFlower, nothing personal about any of this. I still look forward to racing you on Sunday :thumb: You will have an advantage on me, having done one cross race to my none ;)