Advocacy & Safety - How much light is too much light?

i'm visiting sf right now...i see this dude has light on his helmet, his backpack, and two tail-light. do u think it is too much? i mean come on...if i a driver is not going to see one of those light....what make u think they will see the others?

Is the asphalt melting in front of the bike? no?... then it's not too much light.

Are the astronauts in the orbiting space station complaining about lack of sleep due to the glare from your lights? no?... then it's not too much light.

Is the energy immediately in front of your bike warping time-space so that you're travelling faster than the photons and therefore couldn't see where you were going? no?... then it's not too much light

Has there been a huge number of cars being traded for guide dogs and white canes along your route? no?... then it's definitely not enough light. :D

Has SETI been asked to pass on a message to you to "point it the other way, we're trying to get some sleep on this planet"? no?... then it's not too much light

Are drivers passing thinking to them selves, "wow, that guy on a bike thinks he is safe looking like a Christmas tree. Well, the Christmass is over buddy. Here comes the Hummer"? No? Then it's not too much light.

When it blinds oncoming drivers......

no, it's not too much light

sorry I'm not witty and clever like some folks, that's all I've got

I can always suppose a driver who is impaired and needs a little more help seeing me. Right now I am happy with a 100 watt Cessna landing light and a Xenon strobe in the rear. I am hoping for a powerful RED, steady tail-light for Christmas

I just wrote about this in the electronics forum. I'd say when your light presents a danger to yourself or others, it's too much. That can vary from a few thousand lumens shining toward oncoming traffic on a two lane road to a few dozen lumens alerting a would-be-robber that someone on a bicycle's approaching the secluded path.

Your light is too much light when it begins melting your front tire.

-Kurt

Is the asphalt melting in front of the bike? no?... then it's not too much light.

Are the astronauts in the orbiting space station complaining about lack of sleep due to the glare from your lights? no?... then it's not too much light.

Is the energy immediately in front of your bike warping time-space so that you're travelling faster than the photons and therefore couldn't see where you were going? no?... then it's not too much light

Has there been a huge number of cars being traded for guide dogs and white canes along your route? no?... then it's definitely not enough light. :D

What he said I agree :)

i'm visiting sf right now...i see this dude has light on his helmet, his backpack, and two tail-light. do u think it is too much? i mean come on...if i a driver is not going to see one of those light....what make u think they will see the others? From your description I'm not sure what you mean. It sounds like you're saying he had a taillight on his helmet, a taillight on his backpack, and 2 taillights mounted to the bike, so I'll go with that. 4 taillights is definitely not too much, especially since they're mounted at various heights. For example the lights mounted on the bike may be blocked by a car behind the bike, but the light on the back of the helmet would hopefully be visible to cars further back in line. Another advantage of multiple lights is redundancy. If one or 2 stop working for whatever reason there are still more lights running; that's why I consider 2 taillights and 2 front lights to be the bare minimum. As far as how much light is too much light (especially for front lights) I think the primary concern is where the light is directed. You can have thousands of lumens shining out the front, and as long as you have a horizontal cutoff and have them directed to illuminate the ground, not shine at drivers' eyes, it's perfectly safe. On the other hand, a few hundred lumens directed into the eyes of an oncoming driver can be enough to blind the driver and create an unsafe situation.

When it blinds oncoming drivers......

+1. Don't want people running into you because you blinded them. :twitchy:

I have 1 on the helmet one on the pack one under seat and one on each rear fork
a mix of white and red blinkies to break up the pattern
when I just had the under seat I had numerous near misses
now I get room

i'm visiting sf right now...i see this dude has light on his helmet, his backpack, and two tail-light. do u think it is too much? i mean come on...if i a driver is not going to see one of those light....what make u think they will see the others?

In a previous thread about bike ninjas, a few posts commented that if you're riding in a dangerous neighborhood, you might not want to be conspicuous.

Okay, so if I've got three light, and I'm contemplating spending XX dollars on a fourth... I think I'll save that money and go with three (or two, or one). It's like, why not 7 lights? or 15? At some point it just doesn't merit the extra expense.

I agree about the positioning at various levels. You have different angles at which your bike presents itself at times....steep hills, sharp turns, etc. It makes sense to have light emanating from as many possible viewpoints. Plus, you have varying heights of vehicles.....a semi truck for example.....they may not notice a slightly off kilter and tucked underneath a seat blinkie. I figure if I have one on the seatpost, one on my backpack, and one on my helmet......and then my various movements while riding combined.....then I have a good chance of being seen by almost anyone. It's all about being seen, not rationalizing which place is the best for ONE light......or trying to figure out how one person might notice you over any other.

The other HUGE benefit of multiple lights is redundancy. Esp. on the rear.....on a long commute you may not be aware of a light beginning to fade or go dead. This way you have the best chance of maintaining at least one full power light at all times.

Here's a hint:

http://yehudamoon.com/images/strips/2008-09-10.gif

:lol:

When it blinds oncoming drivers......

Not necessarily, that just might mean it's aimed too high, but not too bright.

17 Lux
Good for 15 mph riding

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?id=2690

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/nitelights006.jpg

i'm visiting sf right now...i see this dude has light on his helmet, his backpack, and two tail-light. do u think it is too much? i mean come on...if i a driver is not going to see one of those light....what make u think they will see the others?

I think that there is too little emphasis on the surface area of lights as opposed to the number of lights. But no, the number of lights he rides with is fine.

You have too many lights when the ones on the helmet and backpack are signaling airplanes and pedestrians angling toward you, with cars not being able to see them.

17 Lux
Good for 15 mph riding

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?id=2690

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/nitelights006.jpg

Is that a UFO above the bike ?

When this guy starts picketing your house...you have too much light.

http://nxtbot.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/energizer-bunny.jpg

I think ccdrider made a good point about redundency. That's one good reason.

I think it's also not just about about whether they see you or not, but also how soon they see you. They need to have adequate reaction time, the more the better. If you improve your chances of more motorists seeing you sooner the more lights you have, then I think multiple lights are not overkill. Cheap taillight blinkies are < $10, why not buy several, in addition to a very good one that costs more? Headlights maybe are not as crucial, assuming you are riding on the correct side of the road, but good ones can still be had for < $100. Compare to the cost of a car, and how much you value your life.

Reflective clothing and tape also helps, on both you and your gear.

Headlights maybe are not as crucial, assuming you are riding on the correct side of the road, but good ones can still be had for < $100. Compare to the cost of a car, and how much you value your life.

Reflective clothing and tape also helps, on both you and your gear.

Hmmm, I would say that it depends. In urban environments, a good front blinky is important to distinguish the cyclist from auto headlights. In my case, I use a solid helmet light and a bar mounted blinky. Or is your statement in reference to redundancy?

I am running a 600 lumens front headlight (Cygolite) and about the brightest rear blinker made (Planet Bike's brightest). Still the front is not near as bright as a automobile's headlight or the rear light as bright as new car taillights generally speaking. Also considering getting a helmet mount taillight for redundancy. I want to see and be seen.

I have seen a local bike with about 7 taillights going. Definitely noticeable.

How much light is to much? Can I get a WWII searchlight somewhere to mount on the front and one or more of the European accessory red for foggy conditions taillights for the rear?

Everything to be said about lights must have been already been said on bf.

Is it just me but have car lights gotten brighter over the years. They make a big halos which a dark clothed dressed cyclead can really disappear in. Assuming there is adequate street lighting the cyclist would be visible if it was not for the cars tail lights. Your lights are too bright or misadjusted if I can't see anything after I saw you on the street. Which isn't really a problem with cars headlights except under the most unusual conditions. You can have too much light.

If you are on a long road and have a blinker say on your backpack it might not be as visible from far away because it not being centeres. Also put one on your bike.

I think a single round light now matter how strong needs to go with something else. It often looks like street lighting and general lighting. And your bike isn't really turniong most of the time. It also can be really unnoticeable if there are cars in front and behind. Cars are more noticeable because they have two headlights. Also lots of motorcycles have a pattern. A pattern is good. Like two lights next to each other. Maybe a blinking light next to a static light. The blinking gets their attention and the static light is a dot they can follow. This is the reason they put reflectors on pedals because they move and look different from general lighting.

I don't think reflectors are outdated. They can't run out of batteries is an advantage even if a tiny one with leds nowadays. I think their advantage is they look different from all the random lighting out there. When light hits them they sorta pulsate like stars seem for me eyes. Those yellow construction worker vests can be seen from faar away. saw a yellow vest from far away and closeer I saw 3 cyclists all with lights. Just that many reflectors reflect as much light as a brick wall is the problem.

Is that a UFO above the bike ?

Might be Ghosts

If it doesn't peel paint off of the International Space Station, then it's not bright enough...

Honey, NASA Called Again... Can you point that somewere else? ;)

Mkael;

Car headlights have definitely gotten brighter. First was the change from the old sealed beams to halogen lights and many cars now have HID headlights. Each type has increased the light output considerably. I do not think taillighs have gotten much brighter in the last 20 years, since the time they started requiring the high mounted taillight/brakelight on autos.

Mkael;

Car headlights have definitely gotten brighter. First was the change from the old sealed beams to halogen lights and many cars now have HID headlights. Each type has increased the light output considerably. I do not think taillighs have gotten much brighter in the last 20 years, since the time they started requiring the high mounted taillight/brakelight on autos.

I know the average motorist hasn't gotten much "brighter", either. :lol:

And one more for the "You're headlights might be too bright if. . . " thread. You're headlights might be too bright if on Christmas Eve three men show up on your doorstep on camels bearing gifts. :D:lol:

Mkael;

Car headlights have definitely gotten brighter. First was the change from the old sealed beams to halogen lights and many cars now have HID headlights. Each type has increased the light output considerably. I do not think taillighs have gotten much brighter in the last 20 years, since the time they started requiring the high mounted taillight/brakelight on autos.

"is adequate street lighting the cyclist would be visible if it was not for the cars tail lights"
I meant head lights there. Sorry my mistake.



And one more for the "You're headlights might be too bright if. . . " thread. You're headlights might be too bright if on Christmas Eve three men show up on your doorstep on camels bearing gifts. :D:lol:

I disagree. It blinds people for a few seconds. 95% of the time this is only a problem on dark trails. Some of the people are extremely visible from far away . They might be visible enough with less. There are obstacles and the road is curvy anyway. It's nice if someone gets noticed a km away but how useful is that really. I have no problems at all noticing the camoed people. It's trade off which gives only small benefits for one and big disadvantages for everyone else. It would be nice if people would tune their lighting smaller in such enviroments and use all their lighting power on say two lane high speed roads and the like.

I mean the rare extreme cases blind me more than cars on a lit road. :twitchy:

Too much light on a bike? No such thing.