Mountain Biking - Ellsworth Truth vs Litespeed Niota Ti vs Specialized S-works

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone has any extensive experience with these three bikes...in the bike hunt for adventure racing/24 hour mtb races and would like to get some opinions if possible.

All seem like they are great bikes, and yes, the main thing is the engine that is moving the parts....just heard a rumor in the wind about Ellsworth going to a 2 year warranty vs lifetime...lifetime warranty is a big issue for me.

Thanks for any info and have a safe riding season(s).

Husker

Truth is a good frame, but old design. Also sometimes Ellsworth's quality has been spotty. The iD suspension failures really stunk Ellsworth.

Niota Ti- damn! That's all I have to say about how frickin' great that bike is.

S-Works....not even in the same leauge as the other two.

Truth is a good frame, but old design. Also sometimes Ellsworth's quality has been spotty. The iD suspension failures really stunk Ellsworth.


Ditto...

As for the others. Not idea. But I haven't heard much good about ellsworth except they are pretty.

Which S-works? Stumpy, Epic or Enduro?

I'm a big fan of Specialized. Their warranty is top notch (replaced my 00 Enduro with an 02 frame when the seat post let go). I've had 3 now: 98 Stumpy HT, 00 Enduro (replaced with the 02, so I guess 4) and now an 04 S-works Epic. I've loved all of them, but the Epic blows them all away!

I'm also a big fan of Litespeed. I have a Tuscany road bike. That Niota looks pretty sweet! And it has the Pro-pedal shock. What it doesn't look like (or say) it has is a 4-bar design, which I'm completely sold on. I've tried single pivot bikes and just didn't like them. So, while I love my Ti road bike, the full suspension design of other bikes eliminates, for me, the biggest benefit of Ti in a MTB: the comfort, and I'd go for the lower cost of an Al FS bike in this case. Believe me, I'd have a Ti if my Epic was harsh to my lower back, but I can ride all day on either the Enduro or Epic.

The Epic or SJ would be better suited for adventure racing than the Enduro, I think. I don't know anything about the Ellsworths besides what I've read here and what a couple of friends have told me about them. Having said that, I got the Epic last December over Ellsworth and Litespeed. And all the others. Really, though, the Stumpy was the only other real contender for me. I'm an XC rider, but a big guy and I don't baby anything. The Specialized bikes are rock solid and inspire complete confidence for me.

But, that's just me....

the els truth is a great performing bike and if not for the failures i'd be rolling one right now. i recently met a guy on the trail riding a brand new 2004 he said it was his third frame one cracked seat tube and one downtube. i've ridden a racer x and it really is a nice bike alittle less forgiving downhill but very nimble. i'd still go with the truth as long the lifetime warranty is still in effect. never had the chance to roll a s-works epic

Get the S-works.

Ellsworths may look attractive, but the quality is a bit suspect, and customer support blows.

The Niota is a great bike, I just built an aluminum one today, rides well, at 5.5 lbs its not super light, but would work.

I got the chance to ride a Niota in November 2003. It was impressive. So impressive I plunked down $6000.00 and ordered a NoitaTi. I have had a ton of bikes and just purchased a 2004 Trek Fuel 95 as well. I orderd my NiotaTi with some custom paint so it still is not in but will report back as soon as I get it.
It should be one hell of a bike at approx 24-25lbs and 5" of travel. The bike I rode in November was not the Ti frame but the suspension as smooth as butter. Rode a Blur as well ( had a Santa Cruz Superlight) and just was blown away with the performance. Plus my intent was to get an ano. orange Blur. However, after being on both (for a short time mind you) the Litespeed was a must have.

santa cruz?

santa cruz has nothing to compare to the Niota

The Niota is an overglorified single URT!

L8R

The Niota is an overglorified single URT!

L8R

You have a fairly strong opinion on the Niota. Have you been on one at all? If not.... What ever you ride must be a pile of crap as well.

Ooooh, a little defensive are we?

Now with the technology in inertia valved suspension, which compensates for poor suspension design, it might not ride too bad.

Just because it's Titanium doesn't make it the best!

Oh, yeah, I ride an Intense Uzzi SL! Worked in shops for the last ooooh 20 years!

L8R

The Niota comes in both Ti and Aluminum.
You have not ridden a Niota and yet you have already formed an opinion on it. In that case, STFU.

I won't comment on the Uzzi SL. You know why? Because I have never ridden one.

Ooooh, a little defensive are we?

Now with the technology in inertia valved suspension, which compensates for poor suspension design, it might not ride too bad.

Just because it's Titanium doesn't make it the best!

Oh, yeah, I ride an Intense Uzzi SL! Worked in shops for the last ooooh 20 years!

L8R

I'll quote this since you decided to edit it after I responded to your post. It used to say "No, I have not ridden the Niota but it is a URT" before you changed it to "Now with the technology..."

The Niota is a great bike, I just built an aluminum one today, rides well, at 5.5 lbs its not super light, but would work.

How much does the aluminum Niota frame cost?

I ride an S-works FSR and absolutely love it. Take into consideration that it is the first Full Suspension bike I have owned. Even on the nastiest of DH I am still reasonably happy on my Hardtail. The S-works rear trully fires when I need it! and only when I need it. The travel is more than adequate for this died in the wool hardtailer!. I have ridden some other high end FS bikes unless the rear shock pressure is super high I am very concious of the BOB!

my $0.02

Jason

al i know is my bike shop likes santa cruz.

I ride an S-works FSR and absolutely love it. Take into consideration that it is the first Full Suspension bike I have owned. Even on the nastiest of DH I am still reasonably happy on my Hardtail. The S-works rear trully fires when I need it! and only when I need it. The travel is more than adequate for this died in the wool hardtailer!. I have ridden some other high end FS bikes unless the rear shock pressure is super high I am very concious of the BOB!

my $0.02

Jason

Coming from Arizona, I would think you have heard of Titus. Titus makes a FSR-licensced suspension that actually works like a Horst link is suppossed to, unlike the Specialized FSR.
The Titus Racer-X outperforms the S-WORKS in every way possible by such a large margin it's ridiculous.

Now with the technology in inertia valved suspension, which compensates for poor suspension design, it might not ride too bad.

I will admit that I had a strong bias against URTs too. I suppose that I still kind of do. These were mainly formed from the bad experiences I had with the Trek Y-bikes. But as you indicated, recent shock designs have brought new life to the concept. I test rode the Maverick ML-7 and it didn't feel anything like the pogo-stick that was the Y22. Technology has been used to compensate for "bad" stable designs in other areas as well. Take a look at modern jet-fighters for example. Many successful ones are built around aerodynamically unstable designs that use computerised stability augmentation.

this looks very similar to the racer-x http://www.bianchiusa.com/ibex.html

think bianchi copied?

and what is exogrid?

Ooooh, a little defensive are we?

Now with the technology in inertia valved suspension, which compensates for poor suspension design, it might not ride too bad.

Just because it's Titanium doesn't make it the best!

Oh, yeah, I ride an Intense Uzzi SL! Worked in shops for the last ooooh 20 years!

L8R

I also have had an Uzzi SLX and a Vantana LaBruja both 4 link 6" travel freeride rigs. The Niota is not a freeride rig but it sucked up 4 foot on trail jumps and drops just as well. Also, at 24-25 lbs for a full XTR Ti set up the the thing is only a pound or two heavier than a Trek Fuel 100 and much lighter than many Full Suspension race rigs. I think it's the best set up for 24hr. racing at this point. Sure it's going to cost you $$$$. but you can't take the money with you so use it while you can.

I wouldn't cast it aside unless you have sepnt some time on it. Ride it and get back to us.

i also have a uzzi slx but thats not what a2psyklnut rides he said he rides a uzzi sl which is a lighter less travel more XC oriented than the slx. one of my riding buds has a Uzzi SL and is a fairly light rig just slightly heavier than my 25.5 blur i'm guessing 26.5-27 pounds. i rode it for a bit and was impressed it was a solid bike. back to the question i still vote for the els truth but have another bike to throw into the mix have you concidered the intense spyder same VPP technology as the blur but built less for all mountain and more for race

Coming from Arizona, I would think you have heard of Titus. Titus makes a FSR-licensced suspension that actually works like a Horst link is suppossed to, unlike the Specialized FSR.
The Titus Racer-X outperforms the S-WORKS in every way possible by such a large margin it's ridiculous.


hmmm racerx I am not sure what your comparing but I HAVE demo'ed "high end" titus (racer X) and was underwelmed by them. After riding the s-works with rear brain shock NOTHING has come close
I am so concious of the BOB! on all other rigs. (people you just need to ride them!! trust me!!)

S-works all the way!

I will be building a titus single speed to round out the family as soon as i can get over paying 600 bucks for King SS wheels!...ok i am over it SS here i come!

No matter what bike we all like it looks like we spend far to much money on them. Can't update you all on my NiotaTi yet as Litespeed f**ed up the parts spec. when they shiped the bike to my LBS. Two left hand XTR shifters, no disc rotors and sent it with a Fox F80X fork when it should have come with a Fox Talas with travel adjust to 125mm. LBS is on it but when you spend 6k ona bike you would expect the outfit to get it right the first time. Scares me a bit.

Actually Litespeed didn't F-up your parts spec.

All bike companies use one of two parts suppliers and they make up the box of parts that your frame is shipped with. The box of parts is put into the box with Litespeed's frame.

No matter what bike we all like it looks like we spend far to much money on them. Can't update you all on my NiotaTi yet as Litespeed f**ed up the parts spec. when they shiped the bike to my LBS. Two left hand XTR shifters, no disc rotors and sent it with a Fox F80X fork when it should have come with a Fox Talas with travel adjust to 125mm. LBS is on it but when you spend 6k ona bike you would expect the outfit to get it right the first time. Scares me a bit.

I'm interest too to buy a NotiaTi. In case you solved your various accessory problems, could you let me know what is your feeling for this bike? Are you happy with and no regrets for your 6k? Because this bike is not a common one, let say exclusive one, it is difficult for me to have information.

[QUOTE=fabriceA]I'm interest too to buy a NotiaTi. In case you solved your various accessory problems, could you let me know what is your feeling for this bike? Are you happy with and no regrets for your 6k? Because this bike is not a common one, let say exclusive one, it is difficult for me to have information.

Just picked it up and plan to ride it two times over the holiday weekend. I will let you know after I have some time on it. What I can tell you is Litespeed changed the spec. and that is why some to the parts were incorrect. They put a fox 100X fork on it. While this is best fork fox makes (I have one on my Trek Fuel) the bike should have come with a Fox Talas with 125mm of travel. What use is 5" in the rear without five in the front!! It took a while to work out the detals with my LBS and Litespeed. I can uderstand the mess up because I totally changed a bunch of parts (seat, seatpost, bars, fork, tires, plus I had it custom painted.) that are in the normal spec. Not really srue if it was all Litespeed or not. What agravates me most is that I orderd the thing in November and it didn't come in until early May ( Litespeed says because of the paint) However, once we found out it wasn't as I ordred it i.e. parts missing Litespeed refused to UPS red the correct parts. I could understand if it was a $600 bike but not $6000. So, long story short I waited a long time for the bike and am a bit put off by Litespeed but lets see if the bike is worth it all. It is a work of art anyway. Looks great. Build quality on the frame is first rate. Nice clean welds. Let you know how it rides.

I'm interest too to buy a NotiaTi. In case you solved your various accessory problems, could you let me know what is your feeling for this bike? Are you happy with and no regrets for your 6k? Because this bike is not a common one, let say exclusive one, it is difficult for me to have information.

Sorry for delay in reporting back. All I can say is wow!! I have ridden a ton of bikes SC blur, SC Superlight. Specialized Enduro S-Works, Jamis Dakar Expert and the list goes on. There is no bike I have ridden to date that is a nice as the NiotaTi. You pay for it but get a bike that is 24-25 lbs. with 5" of plush suspension. Plus the craftsmanship on the bike is top notch. It's like art in bike form. With it's high price tag I am sure the bike will remain somewhat exclusive. I am sure you could spend $3500 to $4500 on an aluminum full XTR bike or even less for a full XT bike and be very happy. Hell, I have a Trek Fuel 95 with a Fox 100X Teralogic fork on it and love that bike as well. My Trek does climb a bit better even if it's a few pounds heavier. The Litespeed in 5" travel mode tends to dolphin a bit on steep climbs. In 4" mode on the front fork it is much better. That being said it still climbs better than any 4" - 5" travel bike I have ridden. I am 190 lbs and the Mavic CrossMaX SL front rim only made it two rides before getting way out ot true. I think it's a combo. of my weight and the rough terrain we ride on. Certainly a Mavic issue and nothing to do with Litespeed. If you do get the bike take the time to set up the FOX float AVA rear shock. It has a major impact on how the bike rides. It's designed to behave like a coil sprung shock rather than a normal air shock that ramps up at the end of it's travel. Set up correctly you get all 5" and a progressive coil sprung feel without the weight. Very Cool!! I chose to get a Manitu Minute 3 front fork with SPV rather than the Fox Talas RL. I wanted an RLC but Litespeed could not provide it and gave me the option of the Minute 3. The fork takes some careful set up as well but works as advertised and I will keep it until Fox puts Taralogic on their Talas RLC. I love Fox forks but the Minute 3 is very very good.

So, Bottom line if you have the $$ I would say go for it. You olny live once... Every one notices it and comes by to see how light it is and can't believe it. Looks great, rides great, but makes you poor.

Honestly, I wasnt impressed by the Niota for the price. I'm guessing its considered like a XC/aggresive trail riding bike according to the Litespeed manual. The suspension was plush, and overall weight wasnt bad, but for like 4600 or something for the alum built up, the parts spec was kinda on the low end, and I didn't find anythign special on the frame design. When I was first building the Niota, i was excited, but once i got on it, it wasnt that impressive. I think the Specialized bikes or Giants are just as good if not better. This is not too say that Litespeed is a bad company, as I am a huge fan of their road stuff, but their mtb stuff never really stood out in my mind.

I think the Specialized bikes or Giants are just as good if not better.

spoken like a someone that has no idea what they're talking about
:rolleyes:

I'm talking about for the money. I'm not saying the quality of the Spec and Giant bikes are bettter than Litespeeds, but for the price, the Spec and Giant are a better choice IMO.

Truth is a good frame, but old design. Also sometimes Ellsworth's quality has been spotty. The iD suspension failures really stunk Ellsworth.

Niota Ti- damn! That's all I have to say about how frickin' great that bike is.

S-Works....not even in the same leauge as the other two.

Just curious... but you must really hate Specializeds because you rarely have anything nice to say about them... any reason why?

Yes, well, Litespeed has a great track record when it comes to suspension bikes. Look at the long history of sucessful designs! :rolleyes: Give me a break. What is it with Litespeed and this board?

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the fine Turner Burner or Maverick ML7 or the Yeti ASX or Intense Tracer. All are better bikes than anything mentioned so far. Granted, i do like the Titus frames, so I think a Racer X is an okay choice, although I don't have a preference for glorified swing-link monoshock designs.

Turner Burner or Maverick ML7 would top my list. You should take a serious look at them.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Moots Smoothie.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Moots Smoothie.

That's because it's way too steep, and the location of the lower shock mount puts the downtube into bending when you bottom the shock out. Bad design IMHO.

Oh, and it's ugly too :) VERY ugly.

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the fine Turner Burner or Maverick ML7 or the Yeti ASX or Intense Tracer.

Look at the title of this thread
:rolleyes:
Gee, wonder why Maverick or turner didn't come up...

Just curious... but you must really hate Specializeds because you rarely have anything nice to say about them... any reason why?

I like Specialized bikes. The Roubaix carbon is nice. In this comparison, it just isn't in the same leauge as the other two.

The Truth Will Set You Free! I've raced on a 2002 Ellsworth Truth for 3 seasons with no major problems. My swingarm developed a hairline fracture in the third season, which Ellsworth replaced: they required a credit card number to ship it up front, and credited me back when they were satisfied that it was warranty issue. I suspect I kicked up a rock while descending and cracked it. The bike handles great, is stable descending, shifts well with the rear suspension active, and climbs better than my previous race bike, a Litespeed Tellico hardtail. I plan on building my second one up this spring with more up to date components. If you're looking for a used one, see my posting at www.aracersedge.com under forums and bike classifieds. I can't comment on the other bikes mentioned in this comparison, because I haven't ridden any of them. I did come in 3rd in the 40-44 Mens XC 2004 NCS races at Snowmass and Durango on mine. It works!

Hey Sparky check your dates this thread died back in JULY. Everything shows up as a new thread for you beacuse you're a newbie

Niota is not a URT-URT is an old fisher or trek y frame. The bottom bracket is not located on the swing arm.

Hey Sparky check your dates this thread died back in JULY. Everything shows up as a new thread for you beacuse you're a newbie
what he said