Folding Bikes - Is it worth to buy a superlight Brompton?

All models of Brompton selling in Hong Kong here are in 6-speed specification. The selling price of models in different handle bars are the same.

The selling price of Brompton in normal specification here is HK$8000 (US$1025.64) and the selling price of Brompton in superlight specification here is HK$15000 (US$1923.08).

Do you think the above selling prices are resonalble?

Is it worth buying the bike in superlight specification for almost double the price of the bike in normal specification?

I sure as hell don't think so. It's not superlight. If you have the exact same components on both bikes, you save 2lbs from the titanium parts. For $900+???

Now, if you're trying to get to the lightest bike possible - say a single or two speed - then it makes more sense to me, but certainly only if you have the money. My experience with a steel M3L is that I found it annoyingly heavy for a few months...then I just got used to it.

The Brompton is not a light bike. I can't ever see it being unless they make some major mods.

It would seem that by using the superlight options you can save a total of 915gms over the standard bike.
Superlight frame option ( - 790gms)
Titanium seat-post ( - 100gms)
Titanium folding pedal axle (- 25gms )

Even the lightest current model the S2L – X “superlight” Weighs. Kgs: 9.65 (21.23 lbs) which is a kilo heavier than my Dahon MU SL @ 8.7 Kg (19.4lbs).

Most of the 6-speed bikes seem to be around the 11.65 kg mark so a superlight 6 speed will weigh around 10.7 kg I would have thought?

I am waiting until January when all the new options are available. I will then have to decide if I go for the new BWR hub or 2-speed and the superlight option.

Do you think the above selling prices are resonalble?

Is it worth to buy the bike in superlight specification for almost double the price of the bike in normal specification?

I think that is roughly what the titanium versions cost here.

IMO, the titanium version only has value if you have to pick up and carry the bike long distances or stairs.

Thanks!

Other than weight, rusting is another problem for the steel extremities.

Do the steel front fork, rear frame and seat pillar rust easily?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm139/tako127/DSC01301.jpg

I sure as hell don't think so. It's not superlight. If you have the exact same components on both bikes, you save 2lbs from the titanium parts. For $900+???

Now, if you're trying to get to the lightest bike possible - say a single or two speed - then it makes more sense to me, but certainly only if you have the money. My experience with a steel M3L is that I found it annoyingly heavy for a few months...then I just got used to it.

The Brompton is not a light bike. I can't ever see it being unless they make some major mods.

Titanium parts??? Now thats light.. I wonder how light it is.. Now that its titanium, you definitely gain more speed and agility

The selling price of Brompton in normal specification here is HK$8000 (US$1025.64) and the selling price of Brompton in superlight specification here is HK$15000 (US$1923.08).

Do you think the above selling prices are resonalble?

Is it worth to buy the bike in superlight specification for almost double the price of the bike in normal specification?

Well, prices don't have to be "reasonable" they just have to be attractive to buyers in numbers large enough for the Seller to make a profit :)

To play devil's advocate for a moment: what real advantages would there be in a super-light Brompton? [emphasis on Brompton] The bike is far too flexy to be a racer. For climbing, the money would be better spent on gearing than on shaving a few pounds, IMO. A couple of pounds less might make a Brompton slightly easier to carry, but it is already easy to carry. Do you see other real advantages I'm overlooking?

Regards
T

Thanks!

Other than weight, rusting is another problem for the steel extremities.

Do the steel front fork, rear frame and seat pillar rust easily?

Easily? No. Just some steady maintenance and you will be fine, IMO.

I am not against putting more features in a bike. I just have to remember that I have to ride with/carry all that extra weight on the bike. So when it comes to Bromptons (and other bikes), I use the simple approuch and not buy a light exotic metal frame or part of the frame (and pay far more than needed to). I just don't load it up with weight as the real determining weight factor is the overall amount of parts on the bike, not so much as a frame or individual bike part.

Is it worth to buy the bike in superlight specification for almost double the price of the bike in normal specification?

No

At nearly double the price, the main frame should also be made of titanium. That would bring down the weight considerably.

hi amuro, did you buy Brompton finally?

Go for combined overall weight:

Is the combo [bike] + [rider] + [accessories] too heavy?

Try upgrading the weight of the [rider]. You might be able to have an overall weight upgrade of several pounds without spending a dime.

Everytime I think I need to upgrade my Brompton to a Ti version I lose 4 pounds.

Now....with that said...the blue seatpost looks really nice. :)

Haha, a popular upgrade in Japan, is to just get the titanium seat post. If you get the titanium fork and rear triangle then the bike will flex more than the steal. The flex is suppose to absorb more bumps, but when I think it flexes too much. I didn't really have a problem with it since I am very small, but alot of heavier and taller riders might.

I have now owned my Brompton raw lacquer titanium 2-speed S-type for nearly 5 months. I do carry the bike a lot around the train station so any weight reduction helps (I don’t have rack or guards).:thumb:

Having since bought my Dad a steel 2-speed M-type (with guards), I will admit that the difference in weight is noticeable but not that great.

One good thing about the titanium version is that there is no paint on the forks / rear triangle to scratch and then turn rusty.:)

Having ridden both bikes I can’t say that I have noticed much difference in the ride quality (the M and S type bars feel different due to the riding position) I will have to make note of it next time. I have not noticed any flex in my titanium bike and it feels nice and stiff (unlike the flimsy Dahon MUSL I had):rolleyes:

Is it worth the extra money of the standard metal version? People say that I “always have to have the best” and I see the Ti S-type 2-speed as top of the range of sporty Bromptons ...... and if I had bought the standard bike, I’d forever wonder what it would be like to own the titanium version... as it is, I do know.... and it’s great I certainly don’t regret paying the extra.:thumb:

i bet you could diet and exercise enough to shed the 4 pound difference between the bikes...with the great advantage of you getting some:lol:;)......

I think it is always wise to buy what your heart wants, there may be a very good case for only buying the standard bike, but in the future everytime you look at it, you'll know it wasn't what you really wanted, you'll be kicking yourself & regreting that you didnt get the SL version - we know from experience this to be true.

That's actually very true Diode!

You'll always look at it and wish that was the one you got if you are looking at it in the first place! That's exactly how I ended up with my folder (my silly strida), even though I found cheaper and better alternatives with dahon's and even a tikit was within the same price range! It's the techie in my needing something unconventional. And you know what? even though I spent alot, I'm actually having fun and really happy with my purchase.

Sooooo Amuro you might want to really touch and feel that titanium bike and straddle it in the store before you buy the steel version. Cause it'll always be bugging you in the back of your mind "what could've been". You can always make the money back but once you have the steel version and then you want the Ti selling the one you didn't want then buying the other will be more costly.

Sorry to mess up your decision making some more :lol:

Thanks for posting this thread Amuro, I was puzzling over the same q myself. The guy in the lbs, when I said, well, once I put 6 gears and a brooks saddle and fenders on an ultralite the benefit is lost also said titanium is more "responsive". Does that mean flexi?

Thanks for posting this thread Amuro, I was puzzling over the same q myself. The guy in the lbs, when I said, well, once I put 6 gears and a brooks saddle and fenders on an ultralite the benefit is lost also said titanium is more "responsive". Does that mean flexi?
Sorry but i dont see how benefit is lost.It will still be lighter than all steel which is a benefit if you carry alot.I chose to go all steel cause my bike is the minimal S1E single speed which is already lite enuff for carrying and didnt need extra expense for my style of bike.

ddez, you're right, but in two ways. Of course, a brompton with titanium and a brooks saddle six gears fenders and a rack is going to be lighter than the same thing only steel. But is still going to be relatively heavy, and if you want lightness because you don't want to be lifting too much weight then it seems you only get that with a barebone 1 or 2 gear S type; and if you are going barebones, maybe steel is acceptable weight anyway...

Eat lots of roughage, a few pints of Scrumpy (rough cider) & a vicious curry should lose you one hell of a lot more! But don't ride too far from a toilet! :rolleyes:

OK im going to really mess op up now with this confession.You guys are rite about regretting not getting certain stuff.If i had to do it again id get titanium and clear bare metal.I debated this for quite some time and was trying to be practical,the heart isnt so practical often,so ended up with what i have which i like for me but???I do like my flat black and it is lite.
And Gringo Gus i did break my minimalist thing with my old( very broke in) Flyer on it, but my old butt has to be comfy vs.lite weight.

Another thing to consider (and please forgive me since I haven't done it on paper down to the grams):

How much weight can you save with US$700.00 on upgraded replacements?

Brakes

Bottom bracket

Cranckset

chain

wheels

handlebar

saddle

Anyone with some spare time to invest on the possibilities?

I have not noticed any flex in my titanium bike and it feels nice and stiff (unlike the flimsy Dahon MUSL I had):rolleyes:

I don't think the Brompton is stiffer than the Mu Sl. Why should it? Probably you just had a bad hinge setup? From the Alluminium material with a higher top tube plus bigger tube diameter of the Dahon I would expect it to be stiffer. And it is quite stiff indeed. Flexiest part is the handlepost. But as fas as I know, it is already stiffer than the one on other folders.

I don't think the Brompton is stiffer than the Mu Sl. Why should it? Probably you just had a bad hinge setup? From the Alluminium material with a higher top tube plus bigger tube diameter of the Dahon I would expect it to be stiffer. And it is quite stiff indeed. Flexiest part is the handlepost. But as fas as I know, it is already stiffer than the one on other folders.

The typical ‘M’ bars of the standard Brompton do flex a bit but I was comparing the alloy stem of the MUSL with the steel stem of the ‘S’ type Brompton. I still maintain that the Brompton stem is better/stiffer.

The categorical answer is no. It is definitely not worth the extra money for relatively marginal weight savings. It's fine if you have no budget concerns and all you need is a 2 speed with little or no hills. Even though I had the budget I went for features over weight on mine. The titanium upgrades simply do not offer 'bang for buck'.

You are better with a well specified 6 speed and get the Eazy wheels. My Brompton rolls along nicely and I use the partial fold with the handlebars still up to pull/push it. Otherwise its fine to carry a short distance as it is. weight Saving is otherwise for performance racing or off-road, with folding bikes its mostly to help carry it and the wheels on the carrier get around this issue.

In my experience I've never seen my friends have rust problems and I've had none in my 15 months of Brompton ownership. I can't speak for older pre-2000 models.

I think it is always wise to buy what your heart wants, there may be a very good case for only buying the standard bike, but in the future everytime you look at it, you'll know it wasn't what you really wanted, you'll be kicking yourself & regreting that you didnt get the SL version - we know from experience this to be true.

Yeah, but I think what we all really want is an actual titanium Brompton and not just a Brompton with a few titanium bits.


IMO, the titanium version only has value if you have to pick up and carry the bike long distances or stairs.

The problem is that 900g isn't even going to make a difference when carrying the bike long distances or up stairs.

Forking over big bucks for titanium Brompton bits is like buying a 700c wheel for your Brompton. It's useless because you can't get the complimentary frame to make it useful. Small weight savings are only useful when aggregated with other small weight savings.

Forking over big bucks for titanium Brompton bits is like buying a 700c wheel for your Brompton. It's useless because you can't get the complimentary frame to make it useful. Small weight savings are only useful when aggregated with other small weight savings.

I'm going to disagree here, Chucky, I'm glad that Brompton are pushing the envelope with the Ti parts, not that I'm into buying them, but to say they're as useless as a 700c wheel is a bit much.

I think one has to see the Ti bits as:
-Costly
-Lighter
-Rust resistant
-Possibly better at damping bumps
-Non-matching with your chosen paint finish
-Made in Russia & China Vs the UK

In my recent 2009 Brompton purchase I went for the clear lacquer and one of the big reasons for me of NOT choosing the Ti was the fact that I wanted to see more of the gold-coloured braze, but hey that's just me.

In bicycle racing it is common to pay €1000,- per kg weight saving. The second kg is €2000,- then. Weight saving on a folder makes even more sense IMHO, as it gets much more use and is also carried a lot. Unfortunately the Brompton starts at a quite high weight. So even the titanium 2 speed is relatively heavy. It should be below 9kg.

The Brompton Superlight is only worth getting if you opt for minimal additions to the bike, 2 gears only, no carrier or extra`s, going for as light as possible. I personally just use a small backpack (rucksack) for personal carrying, even then the weight loss is not great, but it depends on how much you value weight, you do get a bit of advantage. The Titanium is EXTREMELY expensive anyway, but as strong (if not stronger) than steel, and much lighter than aluminium. It looks much nicer, but if you have the money and can afford it, why not! I would have preffered an all titanium frame, but the extra cost would be huge, as I say titanium is not cheap! I am very pleased with my Superlight anyway with just 2 gears & no dynamo or other fixtures. If you would rather have more gears, DO NOT GET A SUPERLIGHT! MY bike is minimal, with just mudguards & 2 gears.

Now, if you're trying to get to the lightest bike possible - say a single or two speed - then it makes more sense to me, but certainly only if you have the money. My experience with a steel M3L is that I found it annoyingly heavy for a few months...then I just got used to it.



after about 9 months, after "getting used to it", i really started to regret not getting the titanium. since i did end up carrying long, painful distances or up lots of stairs more times than i expected.

anything that removes barriers form you using it more is usually worth it. if its so light that you don't even wince when you pick it up, then its more likely you will bring it everywhere.

I have a steel 6 sp and my partner has a Ti 6 sp. I'm 183 cm tall and solidly built. Carrying her Brompton is a lot easier than carrying my own. If you can spare the dosh, I think the Ti options are worthwhile.

It's 900+ bucks more here too .. Titanium is expensive to make into metal from Ore .

stated to knock off a Kg of weight, now whether thats worth it to you is up to your accountant.

Ti Left pedal plug is easier to remove [allen wrench Vs 24mm socket],
a Titanium frame builder can add V brakes , since those parts were not finished, no paint burns.

but like any diet, it is as easy to add that back on,
Schmidt hub, lights, and the rear rack will negate that reduction.

of course its NOT worth it.. buy a Dahon for the girl friend for the difference and ......

I am kidding of course ...( better get a big disclaimer in here) ...

but in all honesty ...... only you can answer that question ... if it is worth to you than go ahead and be proud of your ride and have fun showing it off, as long as you use it instead of having it locked away as you are afraid of theft or getting a scratch on it..

A 200 dlr boardwalk which gets used daily and saves the owner money and makes him fit, and and and and ...is better ( or more worthy ) than a 3000 dlr one off which doesnt get ridden ...

if you like it .. GO FOR IT ... life is short and there are millions of other UNWORTHY causes to spend your money

thor

of course its NOT worth it.. buy a Dahon for the girl friend for the difference and ......


if you like it .. GO FOR IT ... life is short and there are millions of other UNWORTHY causes to spend your money

thor



About the Dahon: Yes, why not, or maybe better a Frog, (IMO a "girly" bike)

Go for it, buy what you like, if you can afford it. If you see the beauty in the "light" Brompton you should go for it . . .

The Titanium options are the most worthwhile when paired with a 2-speed gearing as the relative weight saving is increased. A Ti 2-speed is quite luggable as a carrying bike, and is my most used Brompton. With a 3 or 6 gear the benefit of Ti is reduced and you end up with a view of going the opposite end of the configuration and going with a rack (more weight) which allows you to tow/push the folded package.

So a 2-speed Ti or a 6-speed racked steel are two good-value choices. The former is for flatish areas where carrying is a key feature, the latter for everything else with added advantage of more luggage options.
There is a small, probably not perceivable, comfort factor with the forks and rear triangle having Ti's springiness for less harsh riding. There is some value long-term of Ti as its near the dirtiest bits of the bike for rust-prevention.

The prices quoted don't seem the right relative price, it is as if the dealer is choosing to add more of a premium themselves on Ti.

The Brompton standard bike is far too heavy for a folding bike, the main support frame should be made of Titanium, or Aluminium (preferably Titanium) but I suppose the costs would be too much according to Brompton, or they would have done it by now. They seem to have supply problems with Titanium, it mostly goes to the military. The costs would be very high for a bike anyway, although some people would buy one. Brompton seem to consider Aluminium an inferior metal to use for their bikes, but I would like to see a much lighter version, as the folding design is far superior to others of like. I have the minimal Superlight version, but only because I could afford it, there is a bit of weight saving, and it looks great.

I agree with you about 2 speed gearing on the Superlight, if anybody buys one, it`s only worth it if you go minimal including gearing. As for Titanium, you are going to pay a price for this, no matter what.
I work in metal, and Titanium is stronger than quality steel, is corrosion resistant to salt water and most chemicals, and lighter than Aluminium. I have a small piece at home and can say it is extremely light and strong.

My Superlight is under 10 kilo.

about the Cost ...
Huge amounts of energy are needed to get the metal refined from the Ore.

And everything you do to hot Titanium has to be done flooded in inert gases,

as Oxygen contamination deteriorates strength of the metal and it's welds.

every step costs more than steel.