Advocacy & Safety - Would You Run this Red ?

55 Mph Speed Limit.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/WouldYrunthisRed.jpg

I wouldn't, but then I don't run red lights unless my presense doesn't cause them to change.

You're free to do what you want to do, but I'm of the mindset that if I want the same rights as the cagers out there I'll abide by their laws. Which means that since I wouldn't run it in a car (would you??) then I won't on a bike.

-R

Depends on traffic. But probably, at times, if the traffic is light and/or my bike doesn't trigger the light well. OTOH, if there is significant traffic, then no, probably not.

If the sensor didn't work, it would have to be extra clear, then I might. I might also dismount and walk it to the left.

If the sensor didn't work, it would have to be extra clear, then I might. I might also dismount and walk it to the left.

The sensor Never works for Bikes.
There is No Crosswalk.

The sensor Never works for Bikes.
There is No Crosswalk.

Walking is faster and straight to the left, plus a ticket as a pedestrian might cost less.

Walking is faster and straight to the left, plus a ticket as a pedestrian might cost less.

You would be walking on 55 mph highway.

We run it every time..

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/Anyonehaveabigone012.jpg

Shame, shame!

Shame, shame if you have not reported the problem multiple times to your local traffic engineer. Carry a copy of this correspondence, in case you ever do get harrassed by law enforcement.

Shame, shame if you have not reported the problem multiple times to your local traffic engineer. Carry a copy of this correspondence, in case you ever do get harrassed by law enforcement.

The State Police Has an office on the left side of this intersection.

I have a very similar light on my way to work: a left-turn with an arrow, and I have not been able to trigger the green arrow with my bike.

I wouldn't feel comfortable riding right through the light, since it's 55-mph, 4-lane, and divided.

I stop for the red light and wait for one green cycle (on the straight lane) for a car to come up and trigger the green. If no car comes along by the second green I turn left once it's clear.


Does your oncoming straight lane never turn red, does it only turn red when someone's making a left? Me, I wouldn't blow through the light, but I would turn through it after waiting a little bit.

Does your oncoming straight lane never turn red?
Yes, the traffic was very heavy, so we didn't want to be sitting ducks waiting for something to Happen..

Every situation is different, but in this case it looks like it would be borderline suicidal to sit there in traffic.

Yeah, you're pretty out in the open there; I have the advantage of the lane divider to wait next to.

I think I'd run it, but I'd be pretty careful and I think I'd be more likely to treat it as a stop sign than to just blow through it.


Stay safe!

The sensor Never works for Bikes.
There is No Crosswalk.

I don't know about texas, but in California that might be concidered an 'unmarked crosswalk". so doing the dismount ped thing would be legal. But I assume there is no push button for ped so that probably wouldn't work either.

Would call the public works department and telling them that the signal doesn't trip for bike do any good or just get laughter from the person at the other end.

Jeezuz now you have photographic evidence of all you guys commiting a moving violation. Not to mention some hater will use it to spread more hate.

If the signal won't trip for a bicycle then it is, by definition, defective.

I would stop, wait an appropriate time to ensure that the sensor loop was, in fact defective, and then I would proceed when it was safe to do so - just like I would if I was driving my car.

I would not characterize this as "running" a light.

Hang out in 55mph traffic ?!?!
Yeah right........:rolleyes:

I wouldnt think twice about running it.
My safety comes first.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/Anyonehaveabigone012.jpg

It looks like cyclist #2 (black shorts, silver & red jersey) is commited to cutting his left awfully close in front of the oncoming truck if it is actually going 55 mph. It also looks like the rider on his right, and the one behind him, probably had to wait for the truck to pass. If this is truly the case, and all riders couldn't safely make the turn, it's probably better for all to wait. Seeing two riders cut a last second left, and wondering if the others are going to follow, wouldn't appear very predictable from the drivers perspective.

Every situation is different, but in this case it looks like it would be borderline suicidal to sit there in traffic.


How is it any different than being on a motorcycle or a car at that same light? I'd think you were pretty visible stopped at that light. If the bicycle doesn't trigger the light is it on any other automatic cycle that would change it?

How are you at any greater risk stopped at that light than riding on that road by "taking the lane" and riding vehicularly?

All that being said I really can't say what I'd do at that light. Especially given that it is not triggered by the bike's presence. If the OP rides that road all the time and he runs it I'd be inclined to trust his judgement.

edit: though on second look if I were that guy on the trike I'd stop before I followed the other 3 cyclists through the red for fear I'd end up as a part of the undercarriage of that oncoming truck.

How are you at any greater risk stopped at that light than riding on that road by "taking the lane" and riding vehicularly?



You're not. Being in a designated left turn lane means that the only traffic entering that lane will also be preparing to turn, and/or stopping for the red light.

Cars, motorcycles, bicycles get rear-ended all the time. So you're right: It's not different.

That looks like a pretty nasty place to sit and wait. If there were cars coming, I'd be inclined to wait for the light. If it were dark, though, I'd probably want to get the hell out of there.

You're not. Being in a designated left turn lane means that the only traffic entering that lane will also be preparing to turn, and/or stopping for the red light.

I'm with you on that one. And BTW your assessment of the photo in your previous post seems pretty right on to me as well.


Cars, motorcycles, bicycles get rear-ended all the time. So you're right: It's not different.

I definitely take the possibility of being struck from behind as a distinct possibility but as we are often reminded in A & S that come from behind collisions are statistically a small percentage of overall bike accidents- though catastrophic when they do occur.

I think the cyclists are in more danger running the red from the oncoming vehicle that, as Almost Trick rightly points out, may be confused by seeing a green light and several cyclists running it and not knowing if those last few will run it or not. Kind of a bad chemistry for an accident. The lead cyclist should recognize that running the light may split the group and were I in the lead I would have stopped. On group rides often the less experienced and more exhausted riders are at the back of the group and might be inclined to make a wrong decision in such circumstances.

I'd choose a different route that wouldn't put me through that intersection.

For a highway intersection like that I'd make my call based on which course of action best assured my survival.

Every situation is different, but in this case it looks like it would be borderline suicidal to sit there in traffic.

...if that were a through lane. Look ahead of that intersection, and you'll see that the center lane is separated from through traffic (with a double yellow at each side, no less).

Never ceases to amaze me how many ultimatums are flung about on this forum that show a complete disregard towards the facts as stated or shown in photo/video form.

-Kurt

I definitely take the possibility of being struck from behind as a distinct possibility but as we are often reminded in A & S that come from behind collisions are statistically a small percentage of overall bike accidents- though catastrophic when they do occur.



I think that statistic is patently false. It is based on an "observation" of cyclists that typically ride to the right, out of the main flow of traffic. That statistic is NOT based on observations of lane taking or more left riding cyclists.

The cyclists shown in the picture are centered in the travel lane... and are thus vulnerable to the same situations that make rear end collisions between vehicles the most common type of collision.

Given a non-working sensor, I'd run the light every time just as soon as the traffic were clear without even a pause to acknowledge the red.

Riding in a large group, I'd avoid playing follow the leader, would likely be the guy signaling and yelling about a stop, and would hear that "we could have made it."

Leading a small group I'd make each rider responsible for waiting for safe clearance and plan a regroup down the cross street.

Like others here I'm a little perturbed by how close that pickup is in the oncoming lane. If he's doing the speed limit, that's cutting it mighty close. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since I obviously don't know how fast he's really going. (He could even be slowing to take a right turn, which changes things a lot.)

Personally, I would run that light if there were no cross traffic and the oncoming traffic was still reasonably far away. It's my own personal philosophy though to wait and let traffic with the ROW pass even if i know I can make it through safely, if me running the light will cause any kind of surprise or reaction from the other vehicle. Given that, I probably would have waited for that pickup to pass first (well, depending on how fast it's going, which I can't tell from the picture alone.)

I think that statistic is patently false.


actually, I do too. It's why I prefaced it with my "distinct possibility" remark. It's just that it's such a drumbeat here in A & S I figured I'd do a little preemptive nod to the hard core believers. ;)

You would be walking on 55 mph highway.

We run it every time..

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/Anyonehaveabigone012.jpg

If I have to stop and wait for an opening, I guarantee that walking would be faster than starting up to ride through. I don't wear shoes that make me waddle.

From your other pics, did the trike make it, or have to wait?

If I have to stop and wait for an opening, I guarantee that walking would be faster than starting up to ride through. I don't wear shoes that make me waddle.

From your other pics, did the trike make it, or have to wait?

I don't get how walking would be faster. Riding is generally faster than walking, no?

Also, everyone's concerned about the trike making it through the light. What about the guy taking the pictures :eek:

Leading a small group I'd make each rider responsible for waiting for safe clearance and plan a regroup down the cross street.


This works in theory but group ride dynamics don't always follow the rules- even in the small group situation. The every man (woman) for him/her self at the intersection can and does lead to some pretty bad accidents. If I'm part of a group of riders (no matter the size), even if I'm not the "official" ride leader but at the front of the group I would be inclined to wait at the red light so as not to split the group. The reason being that the new guy at the back, who's been struggling to keep up for the past 10 miles and doesn't know the route is likely to do something stupid in order to hold with the group. Having to explain to that rider on the ambulance ride to the hospital that when we all ran the red it was clear and that he should have waited and we'd have slowed down is how it can sometimes turn out.

I would wait on the other side of the intersection if the light were green when I went through and it changed and some of the group had stopped for it. But if it were red I'd wait til it was clear enough for the small group to proceed together and then go. I mean if I'm going to stop once I'm through the red light why not just stop at the red- especially if it's obvious some of the riders in the group are going to have to stop?

Also, everyone's concerned about the trike making it through the light. What about the guy taking the pictures :eek:

given that we're looking at the picture he posted I'm trusting he made it.;) Unless he got slammed and it's someone's idea of a sick joke just to see how stupid we'd be in that situation.:twitchy:

i probably wouldve let that truck go by first, or does he have a red too?

With that much traffic, unless it's a pretty lightly used road you are turning onto, I can't see it taking long for another vehicle to pull up and trigger the sensor. I also find it hard to believe that the sensor would work for anyone if it won't work with 5-6 bikes sitting in the sweet spot.

actually, I do too. It's why I prefaced it with my "distinct possibility" remark. It's just that it's such a drumbeat here in A & S I figured I'd do a little preemptive nod to the hard core believers. ;)

:thumb:

I can't see if there's anybody behind the Chevy but I think I would have waited for the Chevy to pass and then gone. The riders have a lot more protection there with the turn-only lane than they would trying to turn left from the left lane of such a road where there is no turn lane and no red light and having to wait there, a situation I generally try to avoid.

No, unless the light was not triggering for me.

If the light doesn't trigger for bikes and no other traffic entered the lane to trigger it for me, I'd make my left when traffic was clear for me to do so.

If the light triggered for bikes or I was sharing with other traffic, I'd wait. I seriously don't see why you are all so afraid of sitting in a left turn only lane on a 55mph highway. Maybe I'm just a larger target and easier to see. :D

I don't get how walking would be faster. Riding is generally faster than walking, no?

Also, everyone's concerned about the trike making it through the light. What about the guy taking the pictures :eek:

It takes a second or two longer to start up on my LWB recumbent. On that trike I'd be quicker. Those lanes are not wide, and I don't walk slowly. Actually, I could half-run and be out of the way quickly.

If I have to stop and wait for an opening, I guarantee that walking would be faster than starting up to ride through. I don't wear shoes that make me waddle.

From your other pics, did the trike make it, or have to wait?

I was behind the Trike and I ran The Red.
The Trike and rider on the Right Waited for traffic to clear.

With that much traffic, unless it's a pretty lightly used road you are turning onto, I can't see it taking long for another vehicle to pull up and trigger the sensor. I also find it hard to believe that the sensor would work for anyone if it won't work with 5-6 bikes sitting in the sweet spot.

The Sensor Has Never Worked.

If its safe, of course I would run it. There isn't a stop I wouldn't run as long as its safe to do so.

Now the people in the second photo look like they are cutting way too close. If that truck is really going 55 MPH I wouldn't run it. But hard to tell for sure as still photos are decieving depending on the focal legnth of the camera used to take the picture.

I wouldn't.

Every situation is different, but in this case it looks like it would be borderline suicidal to sit there in traffic.If it's borderline suicide to sit there in traffic, then it's borderline suicide to even ride your bike there.

That said, I have no problems with people running red lights or stop signs, car or bike, as long as they can do so safely, and as long as by doing so they don't inconvenience or `jump in front of' somebody else.

The State Police Has an office on the left side of this intersection.

Then phone the office and ask them to send out an officer to direct the traffic so you can make the turn.

I didn't even have to look at the photo. If the coast is clear - I'm going every time - this light and all the others too.

I would follow the law and not turn on that red.