Bicycle Mechanics - Fragile wheels?

Can any of you wrenches explain this to me?

My wheel is a Mavic CXP23 rims, 28 hole, it's on a Coda Expert hub, drive side is 3X non drive side is radial, why does this blasted wheel go out of true so easily?

Can I just replace the non drive side spokes and redo it in a 3X to make it more durable? im not worried about the 3g im saving, trust me the engine can afford to loose much more than that! Or am I missing a trick?

Scoob

You can redo it 3x, but it may be the relatively low spoke count that is causing the problem if you are a big guy. I'd get the wheel rebuilt by someone you trust. 14/15 double butted with brass nipples. Probably cost about $50.

I will not use fewer than 32 spokes per wheel, and I weigh only 140 lb / 64kg.

Can any of you wrenches explain this to me?

My wheel is a Mavic CXP23 rims, 28 hole, it's on a Coda Expert hub, drive side is 3X non drive side is radial, why does this blasted wheel go out of true so easily?

Can I just replace the non drive side spokes and redo it in a 3X to make it more durable? im not worried about the 3g im saving, trust me the engine can afford to loose much more than that! Or am I missing a trick?

Scoob

Lots of OEM wheels suck. Three conditions are necessary for a decent bicycle wheel. Most people are familiar with the concepts of side-to-side wobble. Up and down wobble is a concept people think less about. The third, equally important condition, is equal spoke tension. It is quite possible to have a wheel that appears to be true in both directions but which has lots of varience in spoke tension. A wheel builder who knows what he is doing will work to balance the descrepencies these three conditions. (It's impossible to get all three perfect.)

Lots of times when people notice a wobble in their wheel, they fiddle with spoke tensions to eliminate the wobble. That may solve one of the three conditions, but may make one of the other conditions worse. The result is that the wheel requires retrueing on increasingly frequent intervals. I suspect that's what has happened to you.

The solution, assuming the rim isn't actually bent, is to start over from the beginning. Losen all of the spokes until you can see just one thread on each one. Next, gradually retension the wheel by turning every spoke the same amount, starting at the valve hole, and no more than 1/2 turn at a time. After each round this way, squeeze parallel pairs of spokes together to seat the spoke heads and to eliminate the wind-up twist in the spokes. You may find that you have to tighten the right side spokes a considerable amount before you get a reasonable amount of tension on the left side spokes. There is a theory that the half-radial build, like you have, tensions the left side spokes more effectively than the three cross pattern. After you get the whole wheel up to equal tension this way, you can check for radial and laterial wobble. If you need to make adjustments (and you most probably will) be sure to do so by tightening and loosening opposing pairs of spokes an equal amount.

What Phil said. Sometimes it's just the build. I had an Mavic OP 32 spoke 3x that regularly broke spokes and went out of true from when it was new, even though I had it checked and retensioned several times. A rebuild from scratch, using (only) new spokes fixed it.

That said, maybe retro's treatment will fix it, but unless you can do the work yourself, a rebuild will cost as much, minus the price of the new parts. Some shops will refuse to build up a wheel using used spokes, and for the difference in cost, you might just as well pop for new spokes, in my opinion.

If you want to do it on the cheap, get a good builder to detension the wheel, check the rim to make sure it is not bent and rebuild with new spokes in a three cross. If you can swing an extra $60 replace the rim with a Mavic open pro. A Salsa Delgado is also a tough replacement and cheaper, but it is kind of wide.

I have no problem retensioning the wheel myself if thats what it is going to take, it only has about 700k on it at most. I guess the question I have is when I let the tension out, is it easy enough to check the rim for flatness then? Should I replace the nipples? I have managed to mangle one accidently.

If you take all the tension out of the rim you can probably tell if it is flat, but you need to lay it on a flat surface that has a hole in the middle, or detension it enough to move the hub up out of the way.

While you have it detensioned, replace any nipples that are damaged.

Thanks Rev. now all I need is a good pot of coffee...

Sure it could be a bad wheel build and retensioning could work, bu how much do you weigh Scooby? As one poster indicated that he or she would not use anything less than 32 spokes and I concur with that statement. My rims have 36 spokes and I only weigh 163, but the point is I rarely have to true the wheels even slightly. Plus the wheel will not fall apart should one spoke break; I broke a spoke due to hitting a stick wrong and all I had to do was bend the broken spoke around a adjacent spoke and road home without even having to true the wheel! Try doing that on a 28 or less spoke wheel.

Everyone had sound advice and keen insights, so, in summary, the evidence suggests and much experience supports that hand built wheels using quality 32 or 36 hole hubs & rims, laced three or four cross, using 14-15 butted spokes and brass nipples are what everyone except "real" racers (Cat 1 or 2) should be riding.

I've got and have used lots of light-weight wheels, but when you consider reliability, light weight, ride quality, serviceability, and cost, none can compare to the wheels I described above. For instance, I've got one wheelset (Campy Record 36 hole hubs, Araya CTL 370 rims, laced 4-cross with 14-15 spokes & brass nipples) that I've been riding for 20 years (Including a few seasons of cyclocross), with minimal maintenance (I can't remember the last time I had them on the truing stand). It used to be that no one complained about wheel problems, and now it seems commonplace.

The point, at least I think there's a point here, is so-called "old fashioned" wheels shouldn't be overlooked as a first choice or a remedy.

gruppo

Everyone had sound advice and keen insights, so, in summary, the evidence suggests and much experience supports that hand built wheels using quality 32 or 36 hole hubs & rims, laced three or four cross, using 14-15 butted spokes and brass nipples are what everyone except "real" racers (Cat 1 or 2) should be riding.

I've got and have used lots of light-weight wheels, but when you consider reliability, light weight, ride quality, serviceability, and cost, none can compare to the wheels I described above. For instance, I've got one wheelset (Campy Record 36 hole hubs, Araya CTL 370 rims, laced 4-cross with 14-15 spokes & brass nipples) that I've been riding for 20 years (Including a few seasons of cyclocross), with minimal maintenance (I can't remember the last time I had them on the truing stand). It used to be that no one complained about wheel problems, and now it seems commonplace.

The point, at least I think there's a point here, is so-called "old fashioned" wheels shouldn't be overlooked as a first choice or a remedy.

gruppo

well said... and I agree all the way!

1. see above. read the revs post about re-tensioning

2. Maybe its the hub. Off brand parts, yes, CODA is an off brand, tend to be of lesser quality. Back in my wheels building days I remember seeing warped/twisted hub shells.

1. see above. read the revs post about re-tensioning

2. Maybe its the hub. Off brand parts, yes, CODA is an off brand, tend to be of lesser quality. Back in my wheels building days I remember seeing warped/twisted hub shells.CODA is the Crack 'n' fail house brand and I have yet to find a component of any type bearing that moniker that was worth the powder to blow it to scrap (though it would be a remarkable improvement.)