Folding Bikes - My first post - any folders sturdy as the Giant Halfway?

Hello All,

This is my first post. Inspired by a couple of Bike Friday owners I met two weeks ago, I started looking into folding bikes. I test rode a Dahon Curve Mu P8 and looked at a Speed D7 and Mariner D7 at Orange Cycle in Orlando, FL. I thought they were kind of cool but found them to be somewhat flimsy, mainly from pushing and pulling against the handlebars. Today I drove to Revolution Bikes in St. Pete to see Bike Fridays since I’ve read that their 20” models resemble riding normal bikes the most. They had 3 bikes on the floor and nothing else in stock. I test rode the Tikit and found it to be flimsy like the Dahons. I rode a Pocket Sport Road and it felt sturdier, but I didn’t like the handlebar, brake lever, and shifter setup at all, plus it doesn’t fold that small. I saw they had a Giant Halfway and didn’t think much of it because I wasn’t crazy about the proprietary parts associated with the one-sided hub setup, although it does look cool. I figured I’d test ride it anyway since I was there. To my surprise, I found that it rode the best of all I’ve seen! To me it felt very sturdy, fit pretty well, and is easy to fold. I was still wary about the hub setup though, plus some other things I’ve read here. The guy told me that if I don’t like it, they have a 30 day policy in which I could take it back and put the value towards another bike OR return and just pay a 5% restocking fee. That was the clincher so I bought it to at least try for a month. I will be in NJ for the holidays and plan to go to Philadelphia to visit Downtube and Trophy Bikes (they sell Brompton, Dahon, Bike Friday, Xootr, Birdy). My question is, do any of these companies (or any others) have bikes that are as sturdy as the Halfway? Who knows, I might end up keeping it, but if I could get something just like the Halfway with more standard and easily replaceable parts that would be perfect. I was pretty interested in the Downtube Mini and Dahon Speed P8. Thanks for your help.

Phil

From what I've read, the Xootr Swift is quite stiff, uses a lot of standard parts, and is lighter, possibly faster than the Giant, if that's important to you. Otherwise, the Giant seems like a real nice folder, and very practical too.

By the way, I'm in Orlando, FL. It would be cool to meet up with other folder riders locally, and do a ride one day.

Good luck on picking the right bike for you.

Regards,
Edward

Xootr Swift probably has the stiffest ride. Really pleasant. Not much of a fold though.

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll check out the Swift when I'm in Philly. I don't need an extremely small fold, but nothing huge either. The Halfway seems compact enough and was able to fit in a mostly packed Ford Ranger size truck bed, and I was able to close the hard tonneau cover. Looking at the Swift website, it doesn't fold that small, but at least it could be dismantled to fit in a Samsonite "vertical 30inch" hardshell suitcase. It is more expensive though and cost is a factor. Downtube seems to be the best bang for the buck and a lot of people say a lot of the parts are standard. Hopefully at least one of their models will feel sturdy. Anyone know?

Edward, I'll be away for the holidays, but maybe we can meet up sometime afterwards. Send me a PM sometime with your e-mail.

I recommend trying multiple incarnations of the same models at the shops you visit (if they have multiples) and again trying the same models at different shops.

A lot of shops don't have a clue how to tune up anything not in zinn bicycle books and low expectations sometimes keep defective bikes from being sent back to the manufacturer.

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll check out the Swift when I'm in Philly. I don't need an extremely small fold, but nothing huge either. The Halfway seems compact enough and was able to fit in a mostly packed Ford Ranger size truck bed, and I was able to close the hard tonneau cover.

Any bike designed by Mike Burrows is worthy of consideration. I have ridden the singlespeed Halfway and liked it a lot - it's an underrated bike.

I recommend trying multiple incarnations of the same models at the shops you visit (if they have multiples) and again trying the same models at different shops.

A lot of shops don't have a clue how to tune up anything not in zinn bicycle books and low expectations sometimes keep defective bikes from being sent back to the manufacturer.

That's a good point and it's something I suspected. The problem is there aren't a lot of stores to go to to compare. The shops I went to only had a few folders and it definitely wasn't their specialty. For Trophy Bikes and Downtube in PA, it is their specialty so hopefully I'll have better luck there.


Any bike designed by Mike Burrows is worthy of consideration. I have ridden the singlespeed Halfway and liked it a lot - it's an underrated bike.

I looked up singlespeed Halfways thinking it was an available upgrade, therefore hoping that there are more available hub options. It appears ss Halfways are available in the UK, not in the US though. Oh well...

I went for a ride yesterday and enjoyed it. It could use a higher gear though. My cadence was 70 strokes/min at 15 MPH which is what I'd like to be able to maintain comfortably. I'll have to see what my cadence is on a road bike to compare. Had it up to 25 going downhill. Anyone know if the front chainring is upgradeable without upgrading the cranks? I saw member "14R" put a large chainring but he had to replace the cranks as well.

Thanks

@Lugnuts001 - I'd swop the stock 7 speed (13-28) cluster for an 11-28 cassette. This will give you a taller top gear, without affecting the lower ratios.

That's a good point and it's something I suspected. The problem is there aren't a lot of stores to go to to compare. The shops I went to only had a few folders and it definitely wasn't their specialty. For Trophy Bikes and Downtube in PA, it is their specialty so hopefully I'll have better luck there.

Yeah I hope so, but I've been to a few shops specializing in folders which left me with the impression that they're business strategy of stocking rare items is a substitute for knowledge rather than an addition. I'll never forget trying a Dahon at brandscycle.com and having the clerk tell me "only shift while pedaling"...the internal hub :freak:.

Please let us know how you find things because, as you said, there aren't a ton of shops out there. So it's helpful to compare our notes.

That being said here are my notes: I think bfold.com (a small shop in NYC) and thorusa.com (online only) are probably the best folder shops in the US in terms of knowledge and service. As far as folder brands go, my impression is that most of the folders over $700 or so are pretty stiff for average folks if properly assembled and tuned unless you really yank hard conciously and purposely (in which case your purpose will be undermined). I believe that cheaper folders can also be just as good, but are hit or miss due to poorer manufacturing tolerances and quality control.

But, please, post back with your opinion on the bikes and shops you visit (I'm particularly interested in Trophy Bikes because I'm looking for a good Brompton dealer and bfold is too far).

I have ridden my Halfway for 3.5 years. At one point my local bike shop upgraded the freehub to 11-28 from what it comes with a 13-28 cluster. This gave the bike more top end speed. However the 11-28 freehubs are not available last time I checked. I am now running the stock 13-28 freehub and find this fast enough for inner city commuting.

Good Luck with your bike!!!

David

But, please, post back with your opinion on the bikes and shops you visit (I'm particularly interested in Trophy Bikes because I'm looking for a good Brompton dealer and bfold is too far).

Will do. In the meantime there are some existing comments I found on maps.google.com:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3131+Walnut+St,+Philadelphia,+PA+19104&jsv=140g&sll=39.95982,-75.163736&sspn=0.025789,0.076218&ie=UTF8&latlng=39952119,-75186528,1517049746420172270&ei=4xtQSab9EYfSM4P6xfkM&cd=11&dtab=2&oi=md_reviews&sa=X


I have ridden my Halfway for 3.5 years. At one point my local bike shop upgraded the freehub to 11-28 from what it comes with a 13-28 cluster. This gave the bike more top end speed. However the 11-28 freehubs are not available last time I checked. I am now running the stock 13-28 freehub and find this fast enough for inner city commuting.

Thanks for chiming in, I thought I read somewhere that the 11-28 was no longer available. Good to hear that you got at least 3.5 years of use out of it so far. Have you had any problems? There was one guy that said he had problems with the main latch, and that there was no way Giant could fix it. I think he said he was heavier. I'm 5'9" and 180lbs, I don't think that's too heavy.

As previous posters had suggested the Swift, I'm looking into it more and have become more interested, mostly because besides the frame, almost everything else consists of standard parts. Even the folding mechanisms appear to consist of standard quick releases. There have been reports of broken frames but it appears it was resolved with thicking wall tubing in the area of the failure. Apparantly a smaller folding steel Swift is coming soon, but seems they've been saying that for about 4 years.

Whatever folder I decide on, I'd like to keep it for many years so a bulletproof frame and standard parts is most ideal. It definitely has to be well under $1,000. Seems like a steel Swift would be perfect. Then again the Halfway also feels solid, and its one-sidedness will be unique for years, plus it comes with a bunch of extras at less cost than the Swift. AHHHH! :eek:

I'm 6' 190lbs. I feel the Giant Halfway gets disrespected in these forums. Parts can be replaced as they wear out. It does not lend iself to customization but then again it comes well equipped and does not need customization.

I like the looks of the Xootr Swift if and when I replace my Halfway. I also like the Dahon Speed P8.

David

I also like the Dahon Speed P8.

Without the fenders and rack the Halfway would look Speed P8ish. Especially if it was red.

You can still get 7 speed 11-28 cassettes in the UK. If you wait a few months you might get parity between the £ and $...

Lugnuts: I've had the Halfway RS for about 3 years now. Here are my thoughts.

Weakpoints:

1. Cumbersome to carry. The wheels don't stay together. I wouldn't want to use it for frequent multi-modal transport.
2. The plastic 'wingnut' which tightens the handlebar stem has come off twice. The first time it was replaced by Giant free of charge, but after the second time, I just gave up and now tighten the stem nut with a wrench.
3. Occasionally, the latch bolt loosens - not dangerously, but it shows itself as a shuddering in the brakes. The bolt is easy to tighten, but, as I found out, also easy to overtighten and snap! Again, Giant replaced it for free.
4. The brakes are not great, although they improved considerably after the addition of Koolstop pads. Coming down steep hills and braking hard can be a bit scary as the bike tends to get a bit 'squirrely'. After a nasty accident, I now take such hills very gingerly, never allowing the bike to build up too much speed.

Remember that your intended purchase is a non RS model, so these issues may not arise for you. Also, I got one of the early Halfways and things have probably improved by now. I notice, for example, that the brakes seem to have been redesigned.

Personally, I love the bike. I'm six foot and have never had any problems with seatpost height. The bike is both nippy and solid at the same time. On the RS model, with a lot of weight at the back, there is a tendency for the front wheel to become airborne on very steep slopes. There's a slight creaking from the handlebars when pulling hard going uphill, although strangely this doesn't happen on every occasion. The Halfway is tricky to modify, but not impossible. I finally managed to fit a FD and now run a triple front (52-42-30) with a 7-speed (11-30) at the back. This gives me enough gears for everything and the bike has performed well in mountains up to 8,500ft. However, although it's good for B&B touring, I haven't yet found a way of fully loading it for camping (tent, sleeping bag, cooking gear, etc), due to the monofork design in the front and the suspension at the back.

All in all, it's a fine bike as long as you don't plan to take it on trains and buses too often. Incidentally, if I were buying a Halfway again, I would go for the non-suspension model and spend the money I saved on upgrading components. I find the suspension on the RS model too 'springy' for my liking.

I have a Halfway and I think it's a pretty decent bike. Just wanted to note on the 11-28 freehub. Do not go looking for a cassette. Cassettes are not compatible with the Halfway. 11-28 freehubs (or whatever the correct term is for them) are no longer being produced last I checked, and the only way you will find one is through e-bay.

The only real problem I ever had with my Giant Halfway was the frame latch. I bought mine used though and that has more to do with the problem than with the design. At any rate, I have a Bike Friday Tikit now that is better than the Halfway, but also a lot more expensive.

--sam

Happy New Year! Unfortunately I can't provide a review on Trophy Bikes. On Monday I went to Philly and much to my dismay both Trophy Bike stores were closed for the holidays. Their website says they're open everyday and there was no mention of closing for 10 days! Their answering system doesn't even mention it! It just says they're open everyday. I was pissed! So my comment is - Do a better job letting people know that you're going to be closed for an extended period of time. Fortunately I was able to do some other things while in Philadelphia so it wasn't a total loss. I went to Downtube and tried a few bikes. The guy there, Tito, seemed like a nice guy and let me try a few bikes. I liked the mini before, and confirmed that I like the ride too.

Thanks for the additional comments on the Halfway. It's good to hear that it has a good following. I'm probably going to return it though mostly because of the inability to customize. I knew that when buying it but the option to experience a folder for a month was my main objective since it's my first.

Phil

Someone please explain to the new guy, how the word "stiff" applies to all the different folders ? ( Is that the frame, or the ride you guys are talking about ? ) I mean, I know the difference between a titanium frame road bike and a steel one. ( esp. when sprinting ) ... & I know how a caddy rides compared to am air-cooled vw . :lol:



<--- new guy



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Airnimal Rhino looks very stiff and sturdy to me of 20" bikes – I haven’t had a chance to try it, but have read reviews. It doesn’t have a long quivering handle-post like most folders have. If you look at the small wheel bikes that have been praised for their ride – Tyrell, Pashley-Moulton – that thing applies to them too. But Rhino’s fold may be a bit cumbersome.

Someone please explain to the new guy, how the word "stiff" applies to all the different folders?

Most folders, like my tikit below, have a very low top tube, which is often a critical element of compact folding. This means that the seatmast and handlebar stem must generally be fairly long. The longer the stem and seatmast, the more torque you can put on them by pulling against them while biking, and thus the more they will flex. This flex is increased by two other common features which break the handlebar stem integrity: first, most folders have folding stems; second, many folders additionally have telescoping stems to fit various heights. My bike below has both. In my experience, flex is quickly adapted to and other folding bike considerations (geometry, steering and handling, ride) become more of a concern.

The Halfway (http://www.chwhite.btinternet.co.uk/assets/images/giantHalfway.jpg) does not appear to have a telescoping stem, and its overall stem is a bit shorter than most. Further, the point at which the stem folds is unusual: almost two thirds up the stem location. This results in a less compact fold; but it is likely to also contribute to less flex.

Other bikes with low flex: all Bike Fridays except the tikit; and the Swift. It should not surprise you that stiffness is correlated either with heaviness (halfway) or with a lack of compact fold (swift, bike friday, etc.)

http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/tikit/pics/P1030084.JPG.thumb.jpg

Great explanation feijai.

I used to ride a 2004 Dahon and a 2006 Dahon Vitesse. They were pretty terrible in offroad/winter situations due to lack of stiffness. The quick fold was amazing. The Dahon particular parts were disappointing.

I've since broken the frame on the 2006 (at the seat tube). Replaced them with two Swifts. The difference in sturdiness and standardization of parts is significant. I'm 6'1" and 190 lbs. After swapping rims and tires I used the Swift for mountain biking (fairly rough trail: http://www.thamesriver.on.ca/Parks/Fanshawe_Lake_Trail.htm) and was able to keep up.

My LBS only sells Giant but I ordered the Swifts from Xootr exactly because of the part standardization. I really like the Giant though, the way it looks and the whole idea.

Mind you the Swift is not a quick fold but it does fold really small (suitcase) if you have half an hour. I.e. the pivots on the frame are standard mountain bike suspension pivots: read strong and can be broken apart.

Other than tubing materials I don't think there is any special standardization on frames. The Swift has 130mm OLD in the back (i.e. can use most modern hubs), has good clearance for knobby 20" tires and wide rims, and most types of brakes can be fitted. Fenders are always tricky and the ones from Xootr don't leave enough clearance. The real non standard part is the handle bar post, but I figure you can replace this from Xootr if you need to.

Since we are on the subject of "sturdy folders", I might as well mention that my faithful "Qile Duo VSTII" folder has a VERY solid feeling. There is no perceptible flexing that can be annoying. Also, there are no squeaks, no creaks, no rattles, or any funny noises at all. Just by studying the photos I've included, it's easy to understand why.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/edwong3/QileDuoPictures001.jpg

Here is a side profile of the bike. Notice that the seat post is relatively short compared to other makes. The seat tube comes up quite a bit, reducing the need for an extra long seat post.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/edwong3/QileDuoPictures003.jpg

Here is a closer view of the seat post, and seat tube.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/edwong3/QileDuoPictures002.jpg

The stem doesn't fold down like other models. By loosening the QR, you can either lower the stem a couple of inches into the head tube, and rotate it 90 degrees, or you can completely remove it by pulling up on it, and placing it between the folded halves to compact the fold even more. This set up makes the one piece stem very stiff.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/edwong3/QileDuoPictures005.jpg

And finally there is the hinge mechanism. It is a very simple thick, spring loaded pin that traverses the hinge box from top to bottom. I've been riding this bike through some rough surfaces for the past several months, and there is absolutely NO PLAY in this area. The frame feels like a non foldable piece.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/edwong3/FlyingPigeon001-2.jpg

My new Flying Pigeon M-3 comes in at a close second when it comes to having that sturdy, low flex feeling about it. You can do some "cranking" on it, and not feel like you're "dancing in the wind".:roflmao2:

I know that the OP is looking for a other models that offer a solid, sturdy feeling, while at the same time maintaining a light weight, and good performance. Obviously, neither of these two bikes qualify as performance bikes, but I thought it was a good idea to offer another view that even some low end folders can be very sturdy.

Regards,
Edward

However, although it's good for B&B touring, I haven't yet found a way of fully loading it for camping (tent, sleeping bag, cooking gear, etc), due to the monofork design in the front and the suspension at the back.


Trailer.
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