Utility Cycling - Flying Pigeon is Chic

http://flyingpigeonnyc.blogspot.com/

I am beginning to think I would not want to be seen riding one.

The photographer could have taken the packing foam off the bikes in some of those shots at least :)

Nah, it's supposed to be like that. It's the top tube protector of the 3-speed crowd.

I hate these things. They seem to be a cheap knock off fashion accessory, like all the faux channel bags girls have been carrying around.

I hate these things. They seem to be a cheap knock off fashion accessory, like all the faux channel bags girls have been carrying around.

But it goes so well with your pink Safari Jacket.

If you're a girl - pink is in. Its also suitable for a gay man. And well - it goes with everything pink. The boys stick with the safe black!

http://flyingpigeonnyc.blogspot.com/

I am beginning to think I would not want to be seen riding one.

Looks more like a blog for pitching the Flying Pigeons. The marketing team pulled a few out of stock and pulled off just enough packing to photograph then drove around to various New York landmarks and photographed them to make them look like they were in the "wild." I have to agree they would have been more successful if they would have unpacked the bikes properly.

The aggressive and deceitful portrayal of these bikes in the "wild" would make Mao Tse Tung very proud.

A billion Chinese can't be wrong. The bicycle was the main means of transportation in China before the car took hold and for many Chinese it is still the principal means of getting around to day to day activities.

for many Chinese it is still the principal means of getting around to day to day activities.

And each of these many Chinese hope to one day own a car so they won't have to ride a bike ever again.

And each of these many Chinese hope to one day own a car so they won't have to ride a bike ever again.
Wonder if they'll leave the bubblewrap on their cars.

I think that may be my first fake blog I've seen. I guess they needed to prove they can waste airline fuel with the best of them. Must have been a fun job though.

And best of all you don't need to lock them up anywhere in NYC ...because they're anti-theft by design!!! LOL....



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A billion Chinese can't be wrong. The bicycle was the main means of transportation in China before the car took hold and for many Chinese it is still the principal means of getting around to day to day activities.

Only 1 in 100 Chinese has a car per figures I found on the web. 1.3 billion Chinese and 13 million private vehicles so the bike is still primary transportation for most.

Unless you like a 1920s Raleigh utility bike though I see no reason to buy the Flying Pigeon or the similar bikes from India. Very heavy gas pipe frames, geometry designed for maximum stability and one speed in the stanard models. Steel rims too it appears, great fun trying to brake with when wet.

Personally I would much prefer a Pashley if choosing a modern reproduction of an old British roadster.

Dutch roadsters still have steel rims -stopping when wet isn't a problem when the bike is equipped with drum brakes. They are still very popular in the Netherlands.

A billion Chinese can't be wrong. The bicycle was the main means of transportation in China before the car took hold and for many Chinese it is still the principal means of getting around to day to day activities.

By choice or necessity?

I ran into the guy who imports them one afternoon in Central Park. Of course the bike he was riding was covered in bubble wrap.

these things are an insult to the roadster tradition. I thought the whole "communist chic" fad was over anyhow.

I think that may be my first fake blog I've seen. I guess they needed to prove they can waste airline fuel with the best of them. Must have been a fun job though.

I'm sure it was, a couple of the Flying Pigeons in the back of a pickup, a camera, and a couple pretty people for garnish and then an afternoon to drive around NYC. :D

bogus site, but they sure have some cool links.

these things are an insult to the roadster tradition. I thought the whole "communist chic" fad was over anyhow.

Oh I dunno, If the Chinese workers have even a little pride in their work the bike might make a good starting point for a "new" cheap DH-1 replica. It would be useless to me as I require a 17"/47cm frame and the "one-size-fits-all" 21" frame would be much too big. I suspect communism is and will be in vogue for the immediate future.

Oh I dunno, If the Chinese workers have even a little pride in their work the bike might make a good starting point for a "new" cheap DH-1 replica. It would be useless to me as I require a 17"/47cm frame and the "one-size-fits-all" 21" frame would be much too big. I suspect communism is and will be in vogue for the immediate future.

And my problem is just the opposite....I need a 25.5"/65cm frames:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

Well, actually the blog is from Flying Pigeon NYC the area distrubutor and dealer so of course it is ad copy. There now are several of them: like FP-LA, FP-Portland, and Morgan Imports here in NC. So only need someplace like Chicago to complete their distributorship. A couple of years ago you only found Chinese sites. It is probably a good way to generate sales in a place like NYC where there are a 100 customers for a utility bicycle and a million for a chic fashion accessory. There is someone in Ann Arbor MI selling them cheaper on ebay but they are rather stripped down with the vinyl seat and no lights.

Gas pipe frame? First that is a very derogatory term. It is and elitest slur on untility bicycles. Even back in 1900 such bicycle were made with straight gage high tensile tubing, I know of no bicycle ever made gas pipe. Straight gage tubing is heavier but stronger than butted tubing. Using thin gage double butted tubing on a utility bicycle is about the stupidest idea I can think of, the thin center section of DB tubing will buckle rather than bend, and if you try to straighten it it is likely to break. Not something you want for a transportation bicycle.

The one size fits all is a real problem, not as most here probably think, you do not need to have to have a fine a size break as you do with a drop bar bicycle but it does kind of limit the range of people they will fit. Besides I like the looks of a 24" roadster it just looks right to me. However the standard 22 inch size should work fine for folks from 5-6 feet tall. Not too good for anyone much outside that range.

As to build quality, I have never actually seen a Flying Pigeon, I doubt that they are much different in quality than Raleigh bicycle of that type were but we are talking mostly 1930's technology. It would be nice if they came with a 3-speed hub, but I guess that they would have been considered a needless luxury in a country where 90% of the population had to walk and there was no money for repairs. You have to replace the indicator chain quite often on a 3-speed used for serious transportation purposes. That would have been a needless expense for them, and I am doing all right in my old age riding my 3-speed in the normal gear, except for one hill I have to down shift for (a single speed in the mountains, what a great exercise idea).

The price of a pigeon ($380 with shipping) is a bit above my price range these days, but if I was still working I might just consider one. They should make great park bikes, cuising lazily with your head far above the crowd.

The purpose of a roadster is to to get you and a bit of cargo from point A to point B in all kinds of weather without too much effort. If you have to go long distances the idea was to load yourself and the bicycle on a train and have local transportation on both ends of the trip. They were not intended as a way to get exercise (you got just as much walking), nor to make you one of the in crowd.

I tend to forget that most of the people here were not even alive when bicycles were used for transportation in most of the industrial world, and all they know are various "sports" bicycles. It is sad that it is very hard to find a transportation bicycle outside of what we think of as the third world. It is even sadder that people who have to use a bicycle for transportation can only find toy "sports" bicycles to use. For anyone not knowing what I mean by "sports", that are all your exercise and special use, and fun bicycles: road bikes, mountain bikes, track bikes, etc. The 10-speeds of the bike boom and the later mountain bikes allowed the snobs to ride a bicycle without having to worry that other people might think they could not afford a car. OTOH, the oh so proud "I don't own a car crowd" drives me nuts knocking on my door and asking me to drive them into town; I now tell them to call a cab.

I don't know how the quality on the FP is. It certainly IS possible to have quite a bit lower quality than an old Raleigh- even comparing a 1930's bike to a modern one- I say this from the experience of owning an India-made bicycle. To give you some examples- rims aren't perfectly round, so when you true up the wheels, you get higher tension spokes at the weld, where it peaks out a bit. Kickstand frame isn't welded straight- using a jig would have avoided that, but for some reason, they didn't. Front rod brakes as made wouldn't properly clear the front front fender. Rear coaster brake doesn't fully disengage when coasting, so it makes noises as you coast. It's still a rideable bicycle, but definitely a cheaply made rideable bicycle, not a quality piece of equipment.

One thing that seems very positive to me about these bikes is that they have shops actually servicing what they sell. On some of this oddball stuff, you have to be mechanically adventurous or else know what you're doing to go at it on your own, and having a shop to set up the bike and make adjustments would be a big step forward in making ownership a positive experience.

It is probably a good way to generate sales in a place like NYC where there are a 100 customers for a utility bicycle and a million for a chic fashion accessory.


Actually New York City has a much larger market for utility bikes than so called chic fashion accessories. New York is, after all, home to Worksman Cycles (http://www.worksman.com/) and there are a slew of Dutch imports that people use for just about everything imaginable.

It needs more pics of the blog owner to be worth coming back to.

Graywolf;

I could be mistaken but based on things I have read I believe that the tubing may well be lower grade than high tensile steel in many of the Chinese and Indian made bikes intended for domestic use. Certainly thicker walled than in many hi ten frames. That may be good for a third world utility bike that is loaded with hundreds of pounds at times. Not sure that it is necessary here, yet!

Just as not sure of the practicality of the Yuba Mundo which is listed as 27.5 Kg or 60.5 pounds for the 6 speed version. That is a lot of mass to pedal all of the time and the Mundo gearing is not low enough for true cargo use in hilly terrain IMO with a 35" low gear.

With the thick walled tubing both might last practically forever, even when attacked by rust. I personally prefer a frame built along the lines of, and with tubing choices used by, the Surly Big Dummy for a utility bike. The lighter weight makes it more of a practical all around bike IMO.

The Yuba Mundo is made in Germany. Its heavy but when it comes to hauling cargo, it looks like it can carry it effortlessly, if you've seen the company's videos. The guy hauling a big box to Fed Ex had no problems maneuvering in traffic. Normally, you'd need a pickup truck to take that stuff to the shipping office and he was able to do it on a bike! It opens one's mind to the possibilities of what you can carry on a longtail bike - almost anything within reason.

Graywolf, my shop (Joe Bike) in Portland carries Sturmey-Archer 3-speed Flying Pigeons. I think we're the only ones in the US that have them. We're also coming out with our own 8-speed version along with 27" alloy wheels. None of our Pigeons have rod brakes, which wouldn't work too well here in Puddletown; on that note I'm pretty sure we're also unique. We retrofit all our Pigeons extensively, from the bottom bracket on up. We also have the 18-speed Yuba Mundo.

You mean alloy 28" wheels? Only the Pashley Guvnor has them and they're OEM. I presume the 8 speed version would be equipped with Shimano Nexus or Sturmey Archer? A roadster would need drum brakes to be effective in mountainous or hilly terrain. Much better than rod brakes. I'm sure its painstaking work to bring them up to Raleigh DL 1 standards. Not every one bothers since roadsters are already heavy to begin with but making them lighter would defeat their intended purpose as heavy duty utility bikes. The Yuba Mundo would be better with an internal gear hub. At this time there's only the one speed version around.

Graywolf, my shop (Joe Bike) in Portland carries Sturmey-Archer 3-speed Flying Pigeons. I think we're the only ones in the US that have them. We're also coming out with our own 8-speed version along with 27" alloy wheels. None of our Pigeons have rod brakes, which wouldn't work too well here in Puddletown; on that note I'm pretty sure we're also unique. We retrofit all our Pigeons extensively, from the bottom bracket on up. We also have the 18-speed Yuba Mundo.

Do you do some upgrading to the Yuba Mundo? Their web site only shows 1 and 6 speed versions as available. Of ourse it would not be the first web site I have seen that is not kept up to date.

I think Joe-Bike meant that particular model is not listed on the site but they can let you know if they have it in the store and if not they can order it for a customer. Most bike shops simply do not have the space to list all the items they carry. Its just too much work for a webmaster to keep all the inventory up to date. So a customer needs to contact the store and ask what they have on hand. Besides a customer's needs may differ from the stock brand shown on the site. Full disclosure: I don't work for or in any way represent Joe Bike. I'm just pointing out the obvious about the LBS business.

I think Joe-Bike meant that particular model is not listed on the site but they can let you know if they have it in the store and if not they can order it for a customer. Most bike shops simply do not have the space to list all the items they carry. Its just too much work for a webmaster to keep all the inventory up to date. So a customer needs to contact the store and ask what they have on hand. Besides a customer's needs may differ from the stock brand shown on the site. Full disclosure: I don't work for or in any way represent Joe Bike. I'm just pointing out the obvious about the LBS business.

I meant that the Yuba Mundo web site does not list an 18 speed model, not Joe Bike. A manufacturer's site that does not list all models is IMO poory run or not kept up to date.

Not every one bothers since roadsters are already heavy to begin with but making them lighter would defeat their intended purpose as heavy duty utility bikes.

Mostly. But as much as I love my 45lb flying pigeon, it certainly could be made lighter without being less strong. For example, for any desired strength you can make a lighter double butted tube than a straight one. It would just be too expensive to make the whole bike like this, and loosing ten pounds off a 45lb bike isn't as big a deal as if you're starting at 25lbs.

Separately: I've just noticed the FP NYC site (http://flyingpigeonnyc.com) is down. Perhaps they forgot to renew their domain?

one thing for sure about the flying pigeon is that the quality is abysmal. you might be getting a "new" and shiny bike, but it will not last nearly as long as a genuine english roadster in good condition. i've seen the components first hand, and even from a distance, they quality is just not there. you're much better off buying a used english roadster (if you can find one), even at a premium price, because with basic care it will outlast you. i see the FPs as disposable fashion statements.

one thing for sure about the flying pigeon is that the quality is abysmal. you might be getting a "new" and shiny bike, but it will not last nearly as long as a genuine english roadster in good condition. i've seen the components first hand, and even from a distance, they quality is just not there.

What have you seen that convinces you that they will not last?

Separately: I've just noticed the FP NYC site (http://flyingpigeonnyc.com) is down. Perhaps they forgot to renew their domain?

The blog is .org, I understand they own the .com but have not put up their website yet. I presume that will be a "you can buy it here" type of site.

one thing for sure about the flying pigeon is that the quality is abysmal. you might be getting a "new" and shiny bike, but it will not last nearly as long as a genuine english roadster in good condition. i've seen the components first hand, and even from a distance, they quality is just not there. you're much better off buying a used english roadster (if you can find one), even at a premium price, because with basic care it will outlast you. i see the FPs as disposable fashion statements.

If you can find one, in good condition, and you can afford it is the problem, especially one with a full chaincase.

Never having seen one in person I have no idea what the quality of the Flying Pigeon actually is. It is the top of the line of chinese roadsters, but I do not know what that means in the real world. As far as the India made ones go, the BSA/Hucules are made by TI India and have a good reputation. The Avon also has a good reputation. The others are cheaper and not as good. No roadster has the fit and finish you expect on a fine road bicycle. The Pashley and the Dutch made bicycles do have a good finish at a price many of us can not afford. None of the ones intended for knockabout service are going to be that well finished.

Roadsters are the Model-T of bicycles; at one time just about every bicycle manufacture in the world made a roadster. They are not sporting equipment. They never were sporting equipment. They were, and in someplaces still are, cheap reliable transportation for the masses.

However, I would like to point out that apparently there are a lot of Flying Pigeons built in the 1950's that are still in service in China. That does not seem to agree with your statement.

What have you seen that convinces you that they will not last?

for one, i noticed from even a couple of feet away that the chrome plating is of poor quality (rims, handlebar, stem, etc) and the plated parts will probably start rusting very quickly.

second, the paint quality is equally poor.

third, i once replaced a raleigh roadster fork and headset with indian-made clone parts (eastman parts, from yellow-jersey.com), and the welds were shoddy and the headset was poorly machined (the races were actually rough :eek:). the headset felt notchy even with brand new ball bearings. i can't say for certain that the chinese-made clones are as bad as the eastmans, but from the first two indicators i mentioned, i'd estimate that the chinese and indian roadster clones are probably about on par with each other.

btw-- hey, you're in medford! i'm in somerville, and the two or three flying pigeons i've seen were in cambridge.

What have you seen that convinces you that they will not last?

Don't the English bikes have braze-ons for bottle generators?

The generators on the Flying Pigeons in the photos are attached via a craptastic attachment bracket that speaks low quality through the Internet.

Don't the English bikes have braze-ons for bottle generators?

The generators on the Flying Pigeons in the photos are attached via a craptastic attachment bracket that speaks low quality through the Internet.

no, the raleigh roadsters did not come with a bottle generator braze-on. raleigh equipped many of its roadsters with dynohubs, obviating the need for a bottle generator. but i've seen a lot of non-dynohub equipped raleighs fitted with similar craptastic generator brackets... that is not unique to the FP.

I`we seen them with braze-on`s for the front wheel (fork), the rear (seatstay) and the "clamp on" type on european / scandinavian bikes. Why is "clamp on" cheap? Gives you the option. A braze-on that is not in use is extra weight, easy to hook into chlotes and stuff and does not give the frame a clean look when not in use. Also finding a replacement dyno could be a problem since there are all different types of brackets.

... Why is "clamp on" cheap? Gives you the option. A braze-on that is not in use is extra weight ... .

This particular clamp doen't work properly. You tighten it around a seat stay and are given a sharp pointy metal screw to puntcture the seat stay tube to prevent the clamp from rotating. Even with the screw pretty deep into a seat stay the clamp has a tendency to rotate.

Braze ons make sure the connection to the dynamo is secure.

For my dynamos I use brake boss brackets. These work really well and give you the option to take the dynamos and brackets completelly off. A much better solution then the dynamo clamp on the FPs.

EDIT: used the word dynohub instead of dynamo.

This particular clamp doen't work properly. You tighten it around a seat stay and are given a sharp pointy metal screw to puntcture the seat stay tube to prevent the clamp from rotating. Even with the screw pretty deep into a seat stay the clamp has a tendency to rotate.


The sharp pointy screw is for electrical contact with the frame, not to keep the bracket from rotating. If it rotates you have not tightened it enough.

A comment on good chrome. High quality chrome plating requires and immense amount of hand labor. Therefore it is pretty much a thing of the past. Where it is used they no longer highly polish the metal first which means you get an ugly lusterless looking part.

You can clean rust off steel but requires a lot scrubbing and elbow grease. Then it really shines! :thumb:;)

The sharp pointy screw is for electrical contact with the frame, not to keep the bracket from rotating. If it rotates you have not tightened it enough. ...

Gray, your statements are false. To quote Peter White regarding the Dynamohalter bracket (same idea as discussed):


Note the little set screw on the right side. That digs into the seat stay just a bit to prevent the bracket from rotating on the round frame tube. If you're not willing to have your frame's paint damaged a bit where the screw digs in, don't use this bracket. The bracket will not work properly without the set screw. Also, don't use this on a carbon fiber frame. (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp)

Although cheap bottle dynamos come with a single wire and the manual instructs the end user to complete the electrical circuit via the bike frame, there is no need to use the bike frame to complete this circuit. It's better to run a second "ground" wire as you're less prone to having rust interfere. Good quality dynamos and lights do have a second wire tab.

Gray, your statements are false. To quote Peter White regarding the Dynamohalter bracket (same idea as discussed):


Note the little set screw on the right side. That digs into the seat stay just a bit to prevent the bracket from rotating on the round frame tube. If you're not willing to have your frame's paint damaged a bit where the screw digs in, don't use this bracket. The bracket will not work properly without the set screw. Also, don't use this on a carbon fiber frame. (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp)

Although cheap bottle dynamos come with a single wire and the manual instructs the end user to complete the electrical circuit via the bike frame, there is no need to use the bike frame to complete this circuit. It's better to run a second "ground" wire as you're less prone to having rust interfere. Good quality dynamos and lights do have a second wire tab.

Graywolf was correct, Peter White and you are incorrect about the primary purpose of the little screw. If the bracket doesn't make contact with bare metal of the frame the circuit will not be complete, hence the screw to assure electrical continuity.

BTW, how many Flying Pigeon type bikes do you think come equipped with "Good quality dynamos and lights". Also, I have never seen any bottle friction dynamo that came with a second wire

... I have never seen any bottle friction dynamo that came with a second wire

Busch & Muller dynamos do.

The more expensive solution is to build the dynamo into the hub. It eliminates tire sidewall wear. You do have to run it with the lights on in the day but that can be a safety feature. Roadsters are workhorse bicycles. That's why they are overbuilt and where durability is concern, weight isn't going to be an issue.