Bicycle Mechanics - Is this wheel the real deal??

Or was someone just getting artsy while spoking the thing up?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=58886&id=1635784241&ref=mf#/photo.php?pid=58889&id=1635784241&ref=mf
If it IS the real deal, can anyone tell me much about it? I would like to try and find a back wheel to match it, if possible.

Also, this is the bike it is on, can anyone give me any info on it. I know it is a Caloi 21 speed, but the model is not legible on the stickers. I know it is rough, but my buddy wants me to try and get it roadworthy again.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=58886&id=1635784241&ref=mf#/photo.php?pid=58888&id=1635784241&ref=mf

Thanks to all that help on this list.

Brad

Pictures not viewable without logging in.

I loogged in and took a look. You are refering to the front wheel on that beat-up Caloi, right?

It's nothing special. The spokes are twisted and (presumably) soldered together. It's an old motorcycle inspired trick... and it looks pretty cool, but it really does absolutely nothing to make a wheel stronger, stiffer, lighter, or better in any way at all (except for looks). However, the wheel in the picture looks to be in pretty rough shape, aesthetically speaking.

If you want another one, or a pair, built up just start calling around different shops and asking if they have any experience building a "crows foot" (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cn-z.html#crow) or other twisted spoke patten wheels. Then choose a rim and a hub and have the wheel built like any other.

Gerd Schraner in his book "The Art of Wheelbuilding" says this about that:

"Twisted Spokes - The twisting of spokes, instead of the classic crossing work, is a waste of time for road use. Tests have shown that it results in a very unstable wheel."

and

" Every serious wheelbuilder who has ever practiced this kind of spoking pattern has sworn to refrain from repeating the error. "

People build wheels like this, and it's probably not as unstable as Schraner says... if it's done well. But it's also probably harder to do well, and is definitely harder to work with once built.
It's all bling with negative practical payoff.

I have built several pairs of twisty wheels.. The build is just like a regular except you twist the spoke 360 at the final cross. Works/looks best with a two cross pattern.
My wife likes the look so I build them for her. I swiped a pair(Chris King/Open Pro/DT Revolution) off her road bike because she was not using the bike. I have put about 2000 miles on them with out the need for a touch up. I also used one(XTR/Araya track rim/DT Revolutions) on my fixed for the front wheel for about two seasons.

"Gerd Schraner in his book "The Art of Wheelbuilding . . . " QUOTE.

IMhO, "THE BICYCLE WHEEL", BY Jobst Brandt, is a much better book than the above mentioned.


Regards,
J T

I have seen several of these wheels and had a set fold underneath me. It is a VERY bad idea.

This pattern produces a wheel that is much weaker laterally. Avoid them like the plague.

It is hard to tell if you can make that bike road worthy from the photo

It looks like it has some old wheel on the rear that is probably either 26x1 3/8 or 27" and probably does not fit the frame that well

I imagine you would be throwing good money after bad trying to turn that bike into something

It's called a snowflake lacing, just google for it.

Wow, I just found some pictures. Looks like a chain linked fence. That can't be good for the spokes. I think you'd be better off going with ShelBroCo's POWerwheels (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/power_wheel.html). Unfortunaltely for all of us, the manufacturer is no longer with us.

People have been doing stuff like that forever... I was just reading on Sheldon (it's like you find a new thing every time) about different spoke patterns, like the Crow's Feet and a few others. There are some really cool, yet practical ones out there. That isn't one of them, though.

"Gerd Schraner in his book "The Art of Wheelbuilding . . . " QUOTE.

IMhO, "THE BICYCLE WHEEL", BY Jobst Brandt, is a much better book than the above mentioned.


Regards,
J T

Have both books, met both guys, built wheels for 15 years. My money is on Schraner.

It's been a number of years since I have read both books, but with Schraner's book being

"backed", by DT, I felt that his book was poorly written, as well as being

incorrect at times.


Regards,
J T

I have an older copy of Brandts books and several of the mechanical engineering students working in the shop said his math was flawed. So it goes both ways. For what it is worth Schraner has built thousands of wheels used by pros in competition over a 30+ year career. If his methods were flawed that would be unlikely.

Unfortunaltely for all of us, the manufacturer is no longer with us.

http://www.caloiusa.com/usa/index.shtm

I can't believe the ignorant pronouncements being made in this thread. This is common enough (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=hnG&q=snowflake%20bike%20wheels&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi). If you have data (thanks, guys who do) that's great. If it just blows your mind, so you've decided it's not good, that's not helpful. There are more things in heaven and earth than dreamt of in your philosophy.

I've built a handful of wheels and have been curious about this kind of lacing. I appreciate the knowledgeable warnings.

http://www.caloiusa.com/usa/index.shtm

I can't believe the ignorant pronouncements being made in this thread. This is common enough (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=hnG&q=snowflake%20bike%20wheels&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi). If you have data (thanks, guys who do) that's great. If it just blows your mind, so you've decided it's not good, that's not helpful. There are more things in heaven and earth than dreamt of in your philosophy.

I've built a handful of wheels and have been curious about this kind of lacing. I appreciate the knowledgeable warnings.

I was referring to the manufacturer of POWerwheels, the late and much lamented Sheldon Brown.

I've seen some hack job twisted spoke wheels, that I wouldn't trust for an outing, and others, built by one of the best wheelbuilders here in Chicago (a meticulous fellow, at least) that by the account of the owner, a fairly competent mechanic himself, haven't needed truing in three years. I'm guessing this is a practice that can produce a nice wheel if done correctly, and a very poor one otherwise. I'm sure just determining spoke length is a challenge, and I'm guessing some of the horror stories posted on this thread about wheels built this way are the result of miscalculations in spoke length, among other things.

I'm sure just determining spoke length is a challenge, .

All you need to do is add 1mm to the calculated length. Surprising but true (and it is all about the skill of the builder).

Gerd Schraner in his book "The Art of Wheelbuilding" says this about that:

"Twisted Spokes - The twisting of spokes, instead of the classic crossing work, is a waste of time for road use. Tests have shown that it results in a very unstable wheel."

and

" Every serious wheelbuilder who has ever practiced this kind of spoking pattern has sworn to refrain from repeating the error. "

AMEN Brother! Have seen wheels with unusual spoking patterns...Wall art at best...unless one wants to be CUTE and noticible in a crowd.