Mountain Biking - Tubeless

So, whats the deal with Tubeless tires? Are they better and if so why?
Do they require special rims?

Dave

My verdict is still out! Supposedly they are better, but I'm not convinced. Weight is the same. You don't have the weight of a tube, but the tubeless tires use thicker rubber to avoid leaking, and require a special rim with another seal.

The supposed advantage is that you can run lower air pressure without the worry of getting "snake bit" or pinch flats. If you didn't know, lower psi = better traction.

Mavic is doing a special right now at most participating shops, where you can DEMO a set of their tubeless CrossMax wheels. I haven't yet, but will probably do so some time this month. I'll get back to you after I try em!

L8R

I looooooooove mine!

The only thing I can find that are good about tubeless is that you can use them at lower pressure.

I've got Mavic UST rims and I really like them too. If you're in the market to get new rims, I think it's the way to go. At least then you have the option of running tubeless or regular tires. A lot of manufacturers are now making UST tires now and the prices have come down some.

OK, so you run the tires at a lower pressure, less pinch flats, but more damaged rims (which happen to be very expensive). Cost more, weigh the same and if you get a flat guess what 90% of the people do? Put a tube in to repair it. Less air = more traction = more rolling resistance - coming from the same marketing guys that were selling less rolling resistance w/ semi-slicks not to long ago.

IMO, don't believe the hype.

Originally posted by riderx
OK, so you run the tires at a lower pressure, less pinch flats, but more damaged rims (which happen to be very expensive). Cost more, weigh the same and if you get a flat guess what 90% of the people do? Put a tube in to repair it. Less air = more traction = more rolling resistance - coming from the same marketing guys that were selling less rolling resistance w/ semi-slicks not to long ago.

IMO, don't believe the hype.
Why are cars, motorcycles, etc. tubeless?

Originally posted by Dirtgrinder

Why are cars, motorcycles, etc. tubeless?
-Most cars have a pretty narrow range for recommended pressure, so the low pressure point is moot.

-We are talking about entirely different applications, so there isn't the concern of making the tire large enough to not worry about bending rims. Also, the weight of the rim and tire combo just isn't that important for either.

-Cars and motorcycles (except dirt bikes) are ridden on the street, not through rock gardens. Again, see point #2 for dirtbikes

-When you get a flat on a car, you pull out the spare, then plug the tire later. On the Moto, well, you are probably buying a new tire. But, then again flats aren't as frequent.

Cars and motorcycles have engines, are you going to put one of those on your bike? :D

IMO, tubeless for bikes are an unnecessary expense at this point offering little benefit. Again, it's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions. But hey, if you like them then that's fine.

Now disc brakes for bikes, that's something that makes sense to me!

Originally posted by riderx
IMO, tubeless for bikes are an unnecessary expense at this point offering little benefit.
your opinion is stupid, what do you mean by "at this point" tubeless has been out for a few years, the only real thing their probably going to do is start making more tubeless compatible tires in more tread patterns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, for me I wouldn't really benefit because I don't get that many pinch flats anyway.
The main benefit of a tubeless tire is being able to run lower pressure, but like Riderx said, that also increases your chances of damaging a very expensive rim. If your bike came with tubeless tires, great but for me it's not worth the expense of the upgrade.

Another point Riderx made I find very ironic. Just a few years ago the bike industry was touting slicks as a way to decrease rolling resistance. Now they are touting tubeless because you can run lower tire pressures. Uhhhh, doesn't this increase rolling resistance?

Like anything else, if it benefits you then great. Buy it and enjoy it but make sure you are buying it because it will offer a certain benefit, not just because of the hype.

Originally posted by KleinMp99
your opinion is stupid, what do you mean by "at this point" tubeless has been out for a few years, the only real thing their probably going to do is start making more tubeless compatible tires in more tread patterns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually he made some very valid points and backed them up very logically as opposed to just making an idiotic statement or outburst.

yea those tubeless wheels are expensive.....you can get the ****in crossrides for 300 bucks......thats NOT expensive

I'm just saying that if I were buying new wheels, I'd go tubeless. As I said previously, at least then you'd have the option of using tubeless tires in the future if you wanted to.
When I mentioned the cars, motorcycles, etc., I was referring to the fact that most other tires have gone tubeless already, and that bikes are one of the last things that haven't.
Unless I cut one badly, I just patch my tubeless. I don't put a tube in them.
As riderx said, it's just an opinion. And yes, discs rock.

Originally posted by KleinMp99
your opinion is stupid, what do you mean by "at this point" tubeless has been out for a few years, the only real thing their probably going to do is start making more tubeless compatible tires in more tread patterns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well Klein, so far I have yet to see you offer any arguements to the benefits of tubeless. I only see two so far from all of the manufacturer's hype:

1) Less pinch flats. Valid, but not that big of a deal for me. I bomb through ugly rock gardens at speed all of the time and I rarely get pinch flats.

2) Lower tire pressure for better traction. Everytime I'm running low tire pressure, I'm damaging rims. I like to ride fast and aggressive and go through or over everything in my way. Low tire pressure isn't cutting it in these situations and I only weigh 155#. Low tire pressure also means my tires start folding over and feeling squishy when railing through corners. Traction? With all of the roots, rocks and steep terrain around here you need it. But, I never have problems because I choose the right tire in the first place.

Here's another opinion that seems to mirror mine:

http://www.ecmtb.com/hardware/mavicUST.shtml

I'd like to add a comment to this debate. First of all, calling someone stupid for having a different opinion than your IS stupid. And uncalled for! We've all had discussions here w/o namecalling, let's not start now!

Secondly, as stated it's his opinion and you have yours, enough said!

Thirdly, the benefits don't outweigh the costs (for now!) and IMO. Once more treads are available and the costs come down, I may consider it. But when one of the major points of reviews is "how much pressure the tires loose overnight", that's a huge red flag for me.

L8R

you can get a cheaper model tubeless wheelset and they are not expensive, mine sometimes lost pressure over night, but it only takes a few pumps to pump them up, and make sure the valve is sealed nice and tight.

I read that guys review and either he's got an axe to grind with Mavic or he's a complete dolt.
First of all, less puncture flats are one of reason's to switch to tubeless, and I can attest to that. I've had way less.
Second, installing tubes is just as easy on tubeless, I've done it.
And what he said about the bead unseating while riding, losing air, and then re-seating itself? Give me a break. I've got almost 1000 miles on tubeless and it's never happened.
Valve stems fragile? I've never broken one.
Axle fragile? What in the he11 does an axle have to do with UST?
If you have to reach that far to find fault, there must not be much.
He's also got the exact same review on MTBreview.

As far as losing air overnight, I add air to mine about once a week, and that's only a couple lbs. No more so than standard tires on my other bike. Maybe I'm just lucky.