Bicycle Mechanics - DA rear 10 spd w/ Ultegra FD?

I'm going to upgrade my 8 spd Ultegra drivetrain.
My current plan is either a 9 spd (Ultegra or DA?) or a 10 spd DA. My plan is to just get a cassette, chain, RD, and STI shifters. I upgraded the crankset last year to the '03 Octalink Ultegra crankset. The rest of my bike is original Ultegra ('97).

I want that 25 for my poor knee, and my current cassette and chain are getting close to their end. 10 speed seems like it will last me longer until my next upgrade, but it isn't free... Ultegra 9's are out there, but not that much less than DA 9's.

I know that the crankset is cool with the Ultegra 9 speed, I like it, it is paid for, and it has a lot of miles left.

Will it work with the DA 10 speed cassette and chain?

It might be a little sticky, since the 10 speed cogs, rings and chain are narrower than the 9 speed stuff.

SanDiegoSteve,

Did you try this set up? I'd like to know as well if an Ultegra crankset can work with a DA 10 speed cassete and the corresponding chain, and RD.

I wouldn't gamble on the 10 speed Dura-Ace lasting as long as an older 9 speed group.

SanDiegoSteve,

Did you try this set up? I'd like to know as well if an Ultegra crankset can work with a DA 10 speed cassete and the corresponding chain, and RD.


Smilar.

I had all Ultegra 600 8 speed. Last year, I upgraded the bottom bracked to from square to octa-link (?) which is 9-speed compatible (thinner for the chain). Rumor is it isn't 10 speed compatible. The only thing that controlls the RD is the shifter, and since the total range on the RD is the same for 8,9,10 speeds, you are fine there. Between RDs, the difference is spring tension, weight, and min-mac cog range (why mountain bikes have long cages).

For me, chain and cassette were givens, upgrade or not.
I got a 9 Speed Ultegra cassette (12-25).
I got a 9 Speet SRAM chain (89?, 69? need to look at invoice).
Both were like $70 total from performance with shipping...

For the upgrade:
Ultegra 9 Speed shifters ('03) off eBay. ~$130.
Cables from LBS ~$10
Had some handlebar rap (cork w/ reflective specs). Cable housing was 9 onths new, so I kept it.

I put on the DA 7800 RD (the old Ultegra 600 would have worked, but I munched it - user error, iD10t). eBay, ~$110. This is not needed unless you are rich, compulsive, or an idiot (id10t) like me when you do your maintenace with a cocktail.

2-3 beers and a Sat. evening after cooking dinner for the wife, I was off on Sunday (2 weeks ago today). Love it. The new Ultegra shifters have that rattle, but I can deal. I now have the 25, which I don't use much, but when I do, I love it. Though I don't use it a lot, mentally it is there. My ave. cadence is up 4-5 (82->87) on the same rides. That is average, including coasting and starting from stopps. The translation is my knees feel much better (not much pain before, but I am post surgery and they are sensitive).

In summary
RD: 8,9,10 speed are all compatible. The only catch is that they can handle the largets cog you put on there. A short cage might not got to a 27. This is a factor of the distance between the pulleys and not the RD's high and low max. The overall cassettes are the same spacing which is what the RD cares about. Shift distance is controlled by the shifter (hence the name).
FD: No problem 8->9.
Cassette: Need to match the chain an shifter.
Chain: Match the cassette and shifter.
Shifter: This is what counts... Race or not, this is what makes shifting smooth. I enjoy the Ultegra, wish I could have DA. Happy where I am.
Chain rings: 9 speed might be a little narrower than 8 speed, but I did that last year, so I am ok. 8 -> 10 speed would probably be sticky.

When you consider chain torque, you don't use the two big ones in bakc with the big one in front, and you don't use the two/three small ones in back with the little one in front. I think I only added 1 usable gear.

suggestion
Make a chart of th cassette sizes that you get with the various combinations you might want. What is the real difference between 9 and 10 speed? Do you get a benefit from 10 speed that you don't from 9? (Yes, I am justifying my own decison here). 10 speed is rumored to be less durable, and slightly more finiky. I'd be amped to have it, but I am still very amped to have 9!

Top speed? Doubt it.
Hit 47 @ 120 RPM 53/12 yesterday. Had plenty more in the tank RPM wise; wind and engery were the issue. An 11t buys me very little more. 25t gets used on the longest of climbs to keep the RPMs up, but the 23 gets used a lot more. I may be big, but I climb well. Above 45, wind and tuck become very important (personal problem for me).

Cool factor... ahhh, we are all in the same boat there.


Bottom line: This is an upgrade I don't regret at all.

Thanks. Excellent post.

Reason I was asking is because I'm starting to buy the components to put together an Ultegra bike and am a little tempted to try out a mostly Ultegra group w/DA 10 spd in the rear... but I think I'm going to stick w/Ultegra 9 spd all around.

Like you, I don't think that 10 spd would give me much over 9 spd. I need to work on getting that 10th speed out of my legs!

By the way, congrats on hitting 47. That's impressive.

(edited for typos)

Durability wise, I don't think you would gain from 10 speed over 9 speed. Besides, with the amount of money needed for the conversion (even considering all the "savings" with compatible stuff as detailed further up), you could change your double and get a triple instead. That would do much more to widen your total range.

Other options.

1. Try to find "second hand" 9-speed levers from oneone who goes to 10.

2. Change your smaller ring for a yet smaller one. On a typical 130/74 triple, you could go down to a 24 granny and a 38 middle ring (or small on a double).

3. Design your own custom cassette, using data from http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html . For example, instead of a regular 12-25 cassette (12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25), combine it with a 12-34 to make a 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-25-30

The 10 speed stuff is new this year and is priced way high it is going to trickle down to Ultegra and 105 eventually. The same thing happened on the Mountain Bike components with 9 speed. Best Bang for the buck go 9 speed for now and wait on the 10 speed a few years. To be completely honest you will not see a difference between the Ultegra rear derailler and the Dura Ace when they are brand new.

I went the Ultegra/Dura-Ace route as well. I factored in how much I ride. Personaly, I need to justlify almost everything I spend money on.

I was riding:

FD: Sante
RD: Sante
CR: Dura-Ace...old 7700 w/ SR rings 53/38
SH: Down tube Sante
All 7-speed

I purchased all of the components from my LBS:

FD: same
RD: 9-speed Dura-Ace $75....so sweet looking I had to have it.
CR: same
SH: 9-speed Ultegra w/ cable $135
9-speed cassete body for $25
9-speed Ultegra cassette $56-20%
9-speed XT?? MTN. chain $20....I like the looks!!! Besides, they didnt have any nickel plated ones..

The converstion has worked well. Nice smooth crisp shifting. $300