Advocacy & Safety - Drunk Driver Kills/injures Bicyclists

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/local/news/12cyclist_b1.html

"Both cyclists were wearing helmets, King said."
Well now that gets rid of THAT excuse. Good to see responsible reporting.
Regardless, these drunk sons of b*tches p*ss me off!

It is to avoid drivers like this that I wear a Third Eye mirror.

It is to avoid drivers like this that I wear a Third Eye mirror.

Doesn't always work. A friend of mine was sitting in his lounge room watching TV when a drunk driver literally tried to drive right through it a few years back.

Doesn't always work. A friend of mine was sitting in his lounge room watching TV when a drunk driver literally tried to drive right through it a few years back.

that's why people put big rocks in the yard.

Gotta wonder who put up the $30K bail to spring this souse. If a member of your family had done something like this, would you bail her/him out?

Gotta wonder who put up the $30K bail to spring this souse. If a member of your family had done something like this, would you bail her/him out?

Nope. They could rot in a cell right along with their liver. :mad:

My prayers go out to Alan Liu and his family.



DnvrFox, Have you heard anything on the condition of the female cyclist?

The two cyclists (neither of whom I know personally) are from my area, so I have been following this fairly closely.

Mr. Hereford is apparently an attorney and member of the California Bar according to reports. He had the $6K required to make the $30K bail. Incredibly, he was given a temporary driving permit so as not to be inconvenienced prior to his trial!?!?!?! I am absolutely speechless that this is allowed!

From a posting I received on another list from someone who knew Alan Liu:

"Jill is in critical condition in a Santa Rosa hospital with a severed spine and severe head trauma."

Let's all hope and pray for her recovery.

Incredibly, he was given a temporary driving permit so as not to be inconvenienced prior to his trial!?!?!?!

How thoughtful of our legal system - protecting the conveniences of those who can afford the price :mad:

Incredibly, he was given a temporary driving permit so as not to be inconvenienced prior to his trial!?!?!?!

UFB! :mad: :mad:

two words, "firing squad!"

kat

two words, "firing squad!"

kat


Thats D*** right! My grandfather was killed when my mom was 7 as a result of a drunk driver. I think our legal system should be ALOT harder on drunk drivers.

Thats D*** right! My grandfather was killed when my mom was 7 as a result of a drunk driver. I think our legal system should be ALOT harder on drunk drivers.

that and *******, but that's a personal wish.

cheers
kat

Incredibly, he was given a temporary driving permit so as not to be inconvenienced prior to his trial!?!?!?! I am absolutely speechless that this is allowed!

Unblievable, if indeed this is the case. This is the kind of situation where you read later that the same guy kills someone else driving drunk while awaiting trial.

Remember how Ken Kifer was killed by a drunk who had just been released from jail on a DWI arrest?

Drunk drivers should have their cars crushed - with them inside.

people that irresposible should be cained till death. one whack a day until the wounds killed them. murders and violent criminals should all get that treatment. to be that irresposible... there's no excuse for it. (not talking about cycling only)

While I'm not one for the draconian justice proposed by some (a nice long rot in a jail cell sounds just fine to me; of course, it will be a dry rot), I am stunned that the driver in this case has been granted a temporary driving permit.

Driving is not a right. Taking away the ability to drive does not constitute punishment (sorry) although it may seem do in our society. There are alternative means of transport, as those of us on this board are well aware. Let the SOB ride a bike in traffic for awhile; he can certainly afford to take a cab if he can make that bail, should he not care to risk being run over by fools like his own self. No way, being charged with a crime like this, should he be behind the wheel right now.

it'd be more fun to see the torture... i hate theives and killers. :mad:

The problem with society is that the whole infrastructure's designed so that people think/expect driving to be a right. Mass transit + biking would still get you between the suburbs and the city for a lot of people if the automobile industry didn't completely destroy billions of dollars worth of railway industry.

I've said this before and I will continue to say it, the easiest way to get away with murder in this country is to premeditate an "accident" and use the "sun was in my eyes" excuse.

I've said this before and I will continue to say it, the easiest way to get away with murder in this country is to premeditate an "accident" and use the "sun was in my eyes" excuse.

It also helps if you use the "I was drunk so I wasn't in control of my actions" excuse. To be honest, it doesn't particularly surprise me that he got the old "can still drive while awaiting trial" provision. Did you know that in some states of Australia, you can actually "drive for work-related purposes" even after having your licence cancelled for drink driving?

To be honest I'm really not concerned with the "punishment" aspect of it. All I really care about is that he's taken off the road by whatever means possible so that he can't do it again. I really don't see why things like this don't attract a mandatory car confiscation at the very least.

"All I preach is extinction" -- Manic Street Preachers.

I think in NYC when mayor guillani was still in office, there was a rule saying if you were caught driving drunk on a major holiday, your car or not, the car is taken away, no if's and's or but's about it. THAT I liked.

It's absolutely ridiculous and there's no sense in saying, "oh don't worry, the 2 people I killed were while I was driving, and I'm not driving anymore, I'm JUST AWAITING TRIAL [GOING TO WORK]".

It also helps if you use the "I was drunk so I wasn't in control of my actions" excuse. To be honest, it doesn't particularly surprise me that he got the old "can still drive while awaiting trial" provision. Did you know that in some states of Australia, you can actually "drive for work-related purposes" even after having your licence cancelled for drink driving?


In the US, the 'I was drunk' excuse no longer works. In fact, being drunk is sufficient grounds for a felony indictment in connection with a fatal accident. Same goes for being high on drugs.

How can this person sleep at nights knowing that he ended one life and permanently damaged another life?

How can this person sleep at nights knowing that he ended one life and permanently damaged another life?

Sadly, I have so little faith in human nature these days, that I don't expect they'll even care.

How can this person sleep at nights knowing that he ended one life and permanently damaged another life?

With great difficulty, I imagine.

Mr. Hereford is apparently an attorney and member of the California Bar according to reports. He had the $6K required to make the $30K bail. Incredibly, he was given a temporary driving permit so as not to be inconvenienced prior to his trial!?!?!?! I am absolutely speechless that this is allowed! If they had remanded, or set his bail such that he wouldn't have been able to pay it, he would have gotten free transportation from the jail to the courthouse (probably across the street, or thru some tunnel, or just down an elevator).

A drunk attorney struck a car here and killed one child and injured another a year or so back. It was his seventh DUI conviction. His BAC was .193, almost twice the legal limit at the time, over twice the new legal limit set just recently, and almost ten times the level he was allowed as a repeat convicted drunk driver. He also fled the scene. His car only got a few blocks before it broke down, so he ran several blocks after that. At the time, if he had not been caught in time for the BAC test, and instead sobered up before being found, the charge of leaving the scene of a death crash would have been less than the charge of DUI in a death crash. The two now are equally severe charges, removing the incentive for DUI killers to leave the scene.

The driver of the other car did not have the kids properly restrained. Yeah, that was stupid, but the attorney had the gall to try to get the charges against him dropped/reduced on that basis. The judge would have nothing of it. The perp then changed his plea to guilty, and was sentenced to 13 years in prison.

Attorneys I've talked to about this case tell me that alcoholism is common in their profession.

Alan was my swim coach and Jill a teammate... our team has been following this closely, but we had not heard about the temporary driving permit. Where/how did you get this information?



The two cyclists (neither of whom I know personally) are from my area, so I have been following this fairly closely.

Mr. Hereford is apparently an attorney and member of the California Bar according to reports. He had the $6K required to make the $30K bail. Incredibly, he was given a temporary driving permit so as not to be inconvenienced prior to his trial!?!?!?! I am absolutely speechless that this is allowed!

From a posting I received on another list from someone who knew Alan Liu:

"Jill is in critical condition in a Santa Rosa hospital with a severed spine and severe head trauma."

Let's all hope and pray for her recovery.

Doesn't always work. A friend of mine was sitting in his lounge room watching TV when a drunk driver literally tried to drive right through it a few years back.

The beginning of this semester (late december) a car ran into the business above my apartment. Condemned the building and I had to find a new place. It was some older guy with alzhiemers who found his keys (how hard is it to hide keys from someone with alzhiemers?). There need to be much harder test for driving in this country. Jesus, I remember mine. I drove a total of maybe 1/8 of a mile, turned around and then parked, that was it. That's one thing that would help everyone. Peace.

...and was sentenced to 13 years in prison.

The drunk driver who killed my brother was only given 4 years.

:(

The beginning of this semester (late december) a car ran into the business above my apartment. Condemned the building and I had to find a new place. It was some older guy with alzhiemers who found his keys (how hard is it to hide keys from someone with alzhiemers?). There need to be much harder test for driving in this country. Jesus, I remember mine. I drove a total of maybe 1/8 of a mile, turned around and then parked, that was it. That's one thing that would help everyone. Peace.

I was reading in a cycling mag that a flashing rear red light attracts drunk drivers.Where as a "on" light is a safer opton can somone put some light on this point?

I was reading in a cycling mag that a flashing rear red light attracts drunk drivers.Where as a "on" light is a safer opton can somone put some light on this point?


Yes. As from my personal experience as a police officer flashing red/blue strobe lights do attract drunk drivers. Within the last two months in Texas, there have been two police officers killed by a drunk driver while they were out of their car with their strobe lights on. Noone can really explain why dunk drivers are attracted to them. It has something to do with the brain's motor skills being impaired and the signals the flashing strobes send to the brain causing a reaction (similar to how some flashing lights trigger siezures) Texas Highway Patrol (DPS) has replaced all of their patrol car strobe lights to the old style rotating bulb red and blue lights. They even added yellow lights to stray drunk drivers from plowing into their cars.

I must say that the laws in Texas are way to light for drunk drivers. They should be more severe.

Yes. As from my personal experience as a police officer flashing red/blue strobe lights do attract drunk drivers. Within the last two months in Texas, there have been two police officers killed by a drunk driver while they were out of their car with their strobe lights on. Noone can really explain why dunk drivers are attracted to them. It has something to do with the brain's motor skills being impaired and the signals the flashing strobes send to the brain causing a reaction (similar to how some flashing lights trigger siezures) Texas Highway Patrol (DPS) has replaced all of their patrol car strobe lights to the old style rotating bulb red and blue lights. They even added yellow lights to stray drunk drivers from plowing into their cars.

I must say that the laws in Texas are way to light for drunk drivers. They should be more severe.


Veichles shoud be impounded or sold from serious offenders. Over here there is a large number of suspended drivers on the road.Speed cameras are relied on too much here, more licence checks, driver education ect would help clean up irrasponsable drivers.

Veichles shoud be impounded or sold from serious offenders. Over here there is a large number of suspended drivers on the road.Speed cameras are relied on too much here, more licence checks, driver education ect would help clean up irrasponsable drivers.

Agree on everything except education -- complete waste of time and money in my book. They've tried that over here (even going as far as publicly calling drink-drivers "bloody idiots"), and it's made not a whit of difference. What we need is simple -- every cent of revenue raised from fines to be spend on more law enforcement until either:

a) nobody can get away with breaking the law ever due to saturation police coverage; or

b) enough people wake up and get the message that there is no longer enough revenue from fines to sustain that level of law enforcement.

People talk about empowerment and not wanting to be controlled by "big bad government", well, let's see the people decide on the appropriate level of law enforcement by their behaviour.

Here's an update on this story from the San Jose Mercury News, dated April 30, 2004:

The man charged with killing one South Bay bicyclist and critically injuring a second while allegedly driving drunk on Easter Sunday in Sonoma County is back in custody after a judge increased his bail to $200,000.

Harvey Hereford of Santa Rosa, who had been free since posting a $60,000 bond, might also see the charge against him upgraded from manslaughter to second-degree murder.

He allegedly was driving with a blood-alcohol content of 0.29 percent -- more than three times the legal limit -- when he smashed his car into 31-year-old Alan Liu of Mountain View, killing him, and 26-year-old Jill Mason of Cupertino. Mason remains in critical condition with severe head and spinal injuries.

Liu and Mason, who had been dating for several months, were riding together on Highway 12 near Windsor when they were hit.

Judge Robert Dale on Wednesday agreed to increase bail after learning that Hereford told police he hadn't been drinking before the 11:15 a.m. April 11 accident. Hereford allegedly did not stop for 300 feet and told police he wasn't aware he had hit someone. The 69-year-old maritime-injury lawyer was driving with an expired license.

The judge ordered Hereford not to drink or possess alcohol if he again posts bail and is released. He approved a search of Hereford's home and car, said Chief Deputy District Attorney Larry Scoufos.

Hereford's next court appearance was set for May 17, for a preliminary examination. After Wednesday's hearing, he was sent back to the main adult detention facility of the Sonoma County Jail in Santa Rosa.

I guess the good news, so far, is that Mr. Hereford is (1) in jail and (2) had the charges upgraded to second-degree murder.

I like the upgrade of charges to murder--it would be a great thing if some sharp prosecutor can call DUI "intent by default" or something like that!

I like the upgrade of charges to murder--it would be a great thing if some sharp prosecutor can call DUI "intent by default" or something like that!

Don't get too excited just yet. Murder charges can be dismissed or downgraded. Personally, I'll save my rejoicing until this sub-human tosspot has a good 30 years or so to think about it.

I like the upgrade of charges to murder--it would be a great thing if some sharp prosecutor can call DUI "intent by default" or something like that!

The law on the books was specifically put there for people to be charged with second degree murder in cases like this. From earlier reading of the story, he lost his license originally due to DUI convictions. He KNEW that starting to drink could lead to this, so they wrote this law especially for these situations. The first person charged under this law was convicted for rear ending someone at a light between Pleasanton and Livermore, California. He had multiple convictions for DUI, and was doing 90 mph when he hit them stopped at a traffic light. He got a very long sentence, hopefully this guy will too. I think a woman on my mail route knew the guy that was killed.