Folding Bikes - Need comments on proposed folder build (Swift or R20) – WARNING LONG POST

Hello All,

I would like comments and suggestions for my proposed bike build. I want to build a folding bike with the following main qualities: sturdy, simple, and durable. After research, it seems the Xooter Swift and Raleigh Twenty are good sturdy platforms to start with. I want to use standard bike parts and it will be a singlespeed w/ coaster brake (I’ll probably add a front brake). I want to use mag (plastic) wheels, classic Skyway Tuff wheels, because I like the look and I will ride on the beach. I will mostly ride on the street, but I live in Florida so I will definitely hit the beaches. I took my MTB on the beach several times, and after several months spokes began falling off. I rinsed the bike after each bike ride, but I guess it wasn’t enough. Does anyone know if the Skyways will fit the Swift? I know the wheel spec on Swifts is 406, but I don’t know if the Skyways are also 406. I haven’t seen any Swifts with mag wheels (there are R20s with them though). I have an 80’s GT Pro Performer with mag wheels, and I suspect they have similar specs as Skyways. If no one knows I can probably buy the Swift frame and test them out.

Alternatively, I’m looking into building a Raleigh 20, but after a lot of reading, there may be a considerable amount of work in finding standard modern parts that will fit. Plus I don’t want to modify the frame (i.e. cut down head tube, rethread BB, etc.) Seeing the many custom R20’s, I know it’s certainly possible, but I don’t want to spend months building the bike.

Below is a list of parts I plan on getting if I was to build a Swift. All parts (except wheels) are from bikepartsusa.com and are pretty standard. I’m not absolutely sure if everything will fit, but from what I can tell the Swift takes mostly standard parts. If anyone can confirm whether something will fit or not, please let me know. I believe I covered everything to build a rideable bike.

$499.00 Xootr Swift Frameset – Silver. Includes frame, fork, headset, riser w/QR lever,
derailleur hanger, and seat post w/QR levers)


$129.99 Skyway Tuff Wheels with coaster brake (don’t think cog is included).


$33.99 Forza Triple Crankarm Set
145mm, 155mm, 165mm, square taper, 495g


$6.99 Pyramid 52T, 1 pc, Chainring
1/2x3/32


$13.94 Sun RAMBLER REPLACEMENT PEDALS
"9/16 Plastic Folding Pedal Steel Hindge"


$31.99 Pyramid ADJUSTABLE MTB STEM AHEAD 28.6x105
"Forged alloy Adjustable angle Silver"


$19.99 Origin 8 Bull Horn
Alloy T-6 -Silver polished -235g


$5.56 Pyramid Tape And Plugs Padded Black


$19.98 Selle Royal Freeway GEL Moderate Men's Xsenium Black


$10.99 KMC chain, 1/2x1/8. Rust Buster.

$4.89 (2) Pyramid Thorn Resistant, 20x1.75, Shrader Valve Tube

$10.78 (2) Kenda 20x1.95, K841, Kontact, Black, Tire


Total: $803.76 (I want to stay under $1,000 with shipping.)

Thanks for your help and Happy Holidays!
Phil

Looks like a cool build, but two thoughts:
1. that chainring won't work with that crank. The crank looks like a five-bolt, 130mm BCD crankset, and the chainring's for a one-piece crank. You'll need a matching chainring.

2. You may not need to go the plastic wheel route. Riding by the beach every once in a while shouldn't be so disastrous for a spoked wheel; I keep an old fuji touring bike with galvanized spokes out on long island for just that purpose, and I haven't broken a spoke yet. I'm also reminded of all the winter bikers up in Canada who deal with roadsalt daily on spoked wheels. I wonder if the old MTB could have been having spoke breakage for other reasons, like overtensioned wheels.

1. that chainring won't work with that crank. The crank looks like a five-bolt, 130mm BCD crankset, and the chainring's for a one-piece crank. You'll need a matching chainring.


I'm a newb :o. How about this one?
$34.99 Origin 8 54T, 130mm, 5 Bolt, Silver Alloy Chainring



2. You may not need to go the plastic wheel route. Riding by the beach every once in a while shouldn't be so disastrous for a spoked wheel; I keep an old fuji touring bike with galvanized spokes out on long island for just that purpose, and I haven't broken a spoke yet. I'm also reminded of all the winter bikers up in Canada who deal with roadsalt daily on spoked wheels. I wonder if the old MTB could have been having spoke breakage for other reasons, like overtensioned wheels.

After reading about all the snowriders, I figured there was another solution. I'll keep it in mind as an alternative. My MTB is an 06 Gary Fisher Tassajara with low miles, so age isn't the problem. I went to the LBS to buy a spoke. While there another one broke and they fixed and trued it. They suggested beach riding was the culprit. After that, 2 more spokes broke. I figured either I replace all spokes or just buy a new wheelset. This is around the same time I got into folders and here I am...

Thanks for the input!
Phil

Do you have experience with that saddle and those pedals? I ended up taking the folding pedals off my Swift and putting non-folding ones on. Since it's not a tiny-folding bike in the first place, the slight increase in folding size didn't matter.

The saddle doesn't look comfortable to me, but that's so personal, I won't try to say it's a bad saddle. Have you ridden one?

I'm not sure the twist-shifter will slide past the curve on the bullhorns--but I'm also not sure it won't. Any chance you can try it out before buying?

I'm not sure the twist-shifter will slide past the curve on the bullhorns--but I'm also not sure it won't. Any chance you can try it out before buying?

Twist shifter? He said he is building it as a single speed.

Regards,
Edward

Oops, missed that. I'm used to the stock Swift.

Do you have experience with that saddle and those pedals? I ended up taking the folding pedals off my Swift and putting non-folding ones on. Since it's not a tiny-folding bike in the first place, the slight increase in folding size didn't matter.

The saddle doesn't look comfortable to me, but that's so personal, I won't try to say it's a bad saddle. Have you ridden one?

I'm not sure the twist-shifter will slide past the curve on the bullhorns--but I'm also not sure it won't. Any chance you can try it out before buying?

No I haven't tried the saddle or pedals. It's ok, those are easy to change later. I won't be trying anything before buying, except a stock Swift which I intend to try on Monday.

I've seen salt and sand really take their toll on a bike in no time at all when it's ridden on the beach, not merely at the beach. The plastic wheels with sealed bearings make good sense for the beach, as does the single-speed. However, if sand and grit get on the Swift's seatpost and inside the seattube, it may abrade the alloy inside the seat tube. Extra care when wiping down the seat tube and seat post after a ride on the beach would be prudent.

Regards
T

I had folding pedals like those on my Downtube Mini. Convenient to fold but very slippery in wet conditions and no provision for adding toe clips. I upgraded to MKS AR-2 EZY detachable pedals and added PowerGrips straps. Removing the pedals takes not much more time than folding those plastic pedals, and the PowerGrips straps make convenient hangers to hang the pedals on the handlebars when I need to stash them somewhere quickly.

$10.78 (2) Kenda 20x1.95, K841, Kontact, Black, Tire


Total: $803.76 (I want to stay under $1,000 with shipping.)

Thanks for your help and Happy Holidays!
Phil

Hey, those are the tires I run on my bike:D

Edward

I've seen salt and sand really take their toll on a bike in no time at all when it's ridden on the beach, not merely at the beach. The plastic wheels with sealed bearings make good sense for the beach, as does the single-speed. However, if sand and grit get on the Swift's seatpost and inside the seattube, it may abrade the alloy inside the seat tube. Extra care when wiping down the seat tube and seat post after a ride on the beach would be prudent.

Regards
T

Speaking of the grit-in-seatpost issue, pick up some fenders from Xootr-- they make a version of the planet bike ATB fenders with "custom" mounting hardware. There's plenty of clearance for the fenders even with the fattest tires.

Regarding the chainring: That looks like the kind of thing you want, but make sure that the crank is 130mm BCD as well-- it could be 144, or 110.

I've seen salt and sand really take their toll on a bike in no time at all when it's ridden on the beach, not merely at the beach. The plastic wheels with sealed bearings make good sense for the beach, as does the single-speed. However, if sand and grit get on the Swift's seatpost and inside the seattube, it may abrade the alloy inside the seat tube. Extra care when wiping down the seat tube and seat post after a ride on the beach would be prudent.

Not something I thought about, thanks for the tip.


I had folding pedals like those on my Downtube Mini. Convenient to fold but very slippery in wet conditions and no provision for adding toe clips. I upgraded to MKS AR-2 EZY detachable pedals and added PowerGrips straps. Removing the pedals takes not much more time than folding those plastic pedals, and the PowerGrips straps make convenient hangers to hang the pedals on the handlebars when I need to stash them somewhere quickly.

Great advice, I think I'll do that setup. Plus it'll make the bike more theft resistant.


Hey, those are the tires I run on my bike:D

Just realized I have these on my GT. Also just found out they come in white! White tires are hard to find and my GT has white wheels. Now I can buy the white tires and swap the black ones over.


Speaking of the grit-in-seatpost issue, pick up some fenders from Xootr-- they make a version of the planet bike ATB fenders with "custom" mounting hardware. There's plenty of clearance for the fenders even with the fattest tires.

Regarding the chainring: That looks like the kind of thing you want, but make sure that the crank is 130mm BCD as well-- it could be 144, or 110.

Good idea. Those look good but are bolted on. I'll try to find clip ons that'll fit because I rather ride fenderless most of the time.

Great advice! Thanks everyone! With the changes and additions, I'm just over $1,000 (amazing considering many of the parts are relatively low end). Just a few weeks ago I was thinking I'd find a used folder on craigslist for ~$100 just to try it out...

Regarding the coaster brake cog, I found a 16T Suntour on the Skyway supplier website http://www.coloredtuffs.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=299


I would like to get a smaller one and found this 14T:

There are other sizes on the Sheldon Brown/Harris Cyclery site: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html#sprockets. The inner portion of the cog looks pretty much the same as the Suntour. Except for one indentation and it not being dished, it looks like it will work. Anyone know? Too bad the Man himself isn't here to answer.

A 14T cog combined with a 56T chainring will give me 74.7 gear-inches. That's about the same as the top gear on the Giant Halfway I have now and I think that would suffice as a SS.

Buy at stock swift, ride around, swap out parts as needed.

Alternatively buy a cheap dahon or downtube and build on that.

I think Dahon has a mariner bike which supposedly is rust resistant.

Do they still make the Strida 3 with mag wheels?

A 14T cog combined with a 56T chainring will give me 74.7 gear-inches. That's about the same as the top gear on the Giant Halfway I have now and I think that would suffice as a SS.

56/14 with 1.95 tyres = 79" gear. I'm not sure about your muscles, but 79" on the beach sounds like very hard work. Try riding your Giant exclusively in top gear for a couple of days and see if you like it.

FWIW I have 53/14 on 1.5" = 72" gear.

56/14 with 1.95 tyres = 79" gear. I'm not sure about your muscles, but 79" on the beach sounds like very hard work. Try riding your Giant exclusively in top gear for a couple of days and see if you like it.

FWIW I have 53/14 on 1.5" = 72" gear.

Just thinking about these high gear inch ratio makes my somewhat sensitive knees ache :eek: I have the personal belief that when you only have one gear ratio, you should default to an easy spin setup.

Here are some SS ratios for common bikes:

Single Speed Beach Cruiser: 54-63 gear inches
Single Speed BMX Bike: 53-55 gear inches
Single Speed MTB: 52 gear inches
Single Speed Road Bikes 70-72 gear inches

These are ratios that are considered optimal for the type of bike, and matched for the intended use. But then again, everyone has their personal preference.

Edward

The Skyway mags will work, but you'll need a longer axle and spacers. I'm pretty sure BMX bikes have 120mm rear spacing, and the Swift frame will have either 132.5mm or 135mm spacing.

I use to ride one of my BMX bikes on the beach as well. Definitely buy sealed bearings for the BB, a neoprene headset dirt guard, and repack your wheel bearings. I would recommend that you buy a grease gun. When installing that new axle in your Tuff Wheels, completely fill the cavity between the left and right bearings with grease using the grease gun. That should help keep the water and dirt out. I wish you can still buy O-ring chains for bicycles, but until that happens, I'm holding on to my old Acme chain for ransom. Get one if you can find it.

I was planning to test ride the Swift on Monday at Trophy Bikes in Philly. Unfortunately both Trophy Bike stores were closed for the holidays. Their website says they're open everyday and there was no mention of closing for 10 days! Their answering system doesn't even mention it! It just says they're open everyday.

joseff and edwong3: When I rode the Giant I believe top gear was sufficient for flat land. I'll have to try it again to see how it is on the hills. But at this point since I didn't get to test ride the Swift I have to figure out what to do. Since they have a no questions return policy, I could buy one and try it. But shipping back and forth is kind of a hassle. OTOH, I get to test ride it for a month instead of just a quick test ride at the shop.

sqynt - Thanks for the recommendations. I heard from Xootr and they said the front dropout spacing is 100mm and the slots both front and rear are 10mm (3/8) so they will fit the 3/8 Skyway axles. I took quick measurements on my GT which has wheels similar to Skyways and dropout spacing is ~100mm (front) and ~110mm (rear). I have yet to hear from Skyway about dropout spacing (including locknuts). I'll have to ask them about axle length.

I haven't had to change out a rear axle before. Would something like this work? It looks like it's 155mm wide.
Jam rear hub axle set. 3/8x26x126x155, with dust caps, $2.99.

or this? 165mm
Pyramid Rear Hub Axle 3/8x165mm 26 Thread Solid Chromoly

sqynt - Thanks for the recommendations. I heard from Xootr and they said the front dropout spacing is 100mm and the slots both front and rear are 10mm (3/8) so they will fit the 3/8 Skyway axles. I took quick measurements on my GT which has wheels similar to Skyways and dropout spacing is ~100mm (front) and ~110mm (rear). I have yet to hear from Skyway about dropout spacing (including locknuts). I'll have to ask them about axle length.

I haven't had to change out a rear axle before. Would something like this work? It looks like it's 155mm wide.
Jam rear hub axle set. 3/8x26x126x155, with dust caps, $2.99.

or this? 165mm
Pyramid Rear Hub Axle 3/8x165mm 26 Thread Solid Chromoly


Solid axles on wheels I've measured have approximately 20mm extensions on each side. For a frame with 135mm rear spacing, you'll want an axle 175mm long. 165mm may be OK if you space the hub so that the effective O.L.D. is a little shorter than 135mm. The most common application of solid axles these days are for BMX and track (120mm spacing). That probably explains why longer axles are harder to come by. I can't verify the thread pitch though. You'll need to verify that it's the same since you'll need to graft all the coaster brake internals to it.