Tandem Cycling - Lamborghini Viaggio Tandem

Hi I was interested in people's opinions on the Tonino Lamborghini Viaggio Tandem as an entry level bike. I've never ridden a tandem and therefore have no experience with them at all. I was considering this bike because I've always wanted to try the tandem thing but they are really expensive, usually several thousand dollars. Seeing as this bike is only $450 shipping included right now on Amazon.com, I figured this would be a relatively safe way to try out riding tandem to see if I like it. If I purchase this bike I plan to immediately upgrade the front derailleur with an Ultegra triple and of course add the qbp travel agents to both front an rear breaks.

If I end up liking the whole tandem experience I then plan on replacing the bb's and cranks with sealed bearing types and maybe replacing the rear derailleur depending on how this factory one performs.

I would also like to replace the wheel set but I had a question about that. I have set of Rolf vector comps that are sturdy as all heck. I've only had to do the slightest amount of truing in the last several years and they are fairly heavy duty. So I was wondering if I could use these on the tandem or do I need to buy specialty wheels? I assume that the tires are wider to accommodate the extra weight but do the rims need to be wider as well? If so should I look for a set of mountain bike wheels?

Last question, I was just wondering if there was anyone here that has actually ridden this bike or has any real hands on experience with it. I just think for $450 and few hundred dollars in upgrades this could be a good bike.

I really appreciate anyone taking the time to respond to this thread.

Take care,

Sid

PS here's a link to the bike on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Tonino-Lamborghini-70400-Viaggio-Tandem/dp/B000R7DND2

and on abikestore.com

http://www.abikestore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=lamborghini-viaggio&Category_Code=lamborghini-bikes&Store_Code=abs

Prior thread on this very bike:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=490206

Last post is from an actual owner.


I think that it is a good starter tandem if it fits your needs. If you upgrade and customize it to your liking, then you should be fine.


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thanks appreciate the info.

Ok so I bought the bike.

1st let me say assembly was a snap. Although when I received the bike from amazon one of the nipples on one of the spokes was broken so I called them up and instead of having me send the bike back they offered me a discount on the bike. All said and done the bike cost $360 shipped to my front door.

After greasing the bearing on both the front and back hubs, adding QBP travel agents to both front and back V-brakes ($24 for the set), adjusting the front and rear derailleurs, and truing the wheels I took it out on it's maiden voyage.

All I can say is wow! My stoker and I had a blast!! I never knew riding tandem was so much fun!!! The bike performed way beyond any expectations I had. It shifted cleanly and handled well. To be honest though I don't know what a high end tandem would handle like so I have no real idea if it was good or not but I can say it felt fine. The ride was exceptionally smooth but I suppose that comes from the long wheel base and the 700x28 tires that came with the bike.

There are a lot of upgrade I plan to make to the bike, just to make it more comparable to my single road bike. I plan to make them a little at a time though as I find good deals on ebay and clearance sales.

The biggest purchase I believe is going to be the wheelset. I was thinking of going with a Velocity USA Deep-V rim with their hub. I saw this set in a 140mm spacing on everybicycletire.com for $323 shipped. I just wondered everyone's opinion on this wheelset. Has anyone had any experience with the velocity usa hubs? Also my team weighs in at 320 - 330lbs. Should I go with the 36 or 40 hole rims?

Take care all and I'll keep updating as I go.

Sid

Hey, congrats and glad you're having fun riding a tandem with your stoker!

Don't know about the Velocity wheelset. You've saved enough $ to upgrade whatever you like to suit your riding needs.

I bought the Pacific Dualie mountain tandem from Amazon and added a Blackburn EX1 rack, dual Wald folding baskets, bar ends, mirrors, bells, lights, frame pump, water bottle/cages, seat bag, tool kit, LED pedals, high rise rear handlebars and stoker suspension seat post to suit neighborhood picnic/grocery run duties...

Congrats and thanks for posting a review!!! A wheel upgrade and travel agents is a good idea. I would have done that too. Another good upgrade are kool stop or swiss stop brake pads.

Is the rear drop out 145mm? You had mentioned 140mm. Also, is the drivetrain a 9 speed triple?

The rear drop out is a 135mm but measures 137mm so I figure I could put a 140mm spaced wheel without a problem. The drive train is a triple and I haven't decided to use a 9 or 10 speed cassette. I have a set of 9sp dura ace bar end shifter I could use or I saw a set of ultegra 10 speed triple sti shifters for $150. I think I'd like to go the 10 speed route just so it's similiar to my road bike.

135mm spacing is standard for MTB. You could also consider a MTB 29er wheelset or the Mavic speed city provided they hold your team weight and the rim width can accamedate the tires you want to put on. We had Mavics in our ex-tandem. Our team weight was under 250lbs and got the nod from our LBS before I put it on. Ofcourse the safest thing to do is to get a tandem specific wheelset.

Another thing to note is that if you put in a wheel wider or narrower the derailleur hanger will have to be adjusted/bent to get a good chain line for ideal shifting. It might not be that significant for a 5mm difference but if you have shifting issues this is one place to look at.

Thanks I really appreciate the advice. I will look into the kool stop and/or swiss stop brake pads. I plan to talk to a local wheel builder this weekend to see what they recommend as well.

After many failed craigslist & ebay attempts to find a good valued tandem for joy & group rides with my lovely, I think we are pulling the trigger on this bike today....

WOOT!

The reviews seem like it's a great value and a perfect entry level for those not willing to spend 2 G's or spend the next half a year becoming a pro-craigslist/ebay competitive shopper......

I'll let you know how it goes!

The reviews seem like it's a great value and a perfect entry level for those not willing to spend 2 G's or spend the next half a year becoming a pro-craigslist/ebay competitive shopper......

I'll let you know how it goes!

Just so you understand, you realize Sid was in all likelyhood a shill who's sole pirpose on bike forums was to promote the sale of that bike. So take the reveiws for what they are worth.

Just so you understand, you realize Sid was in all likelyhood a shill who's sole pirpose on bike forums was to promote the sale of that bike. So take the reveiws for what they are worth.

Good point. I had originally looked at the bikes advertising and it seemed entising at the time for a new-bee. Ultimatley after considering all the upgrades and my need to save money, we went with a Cnndl for $2.6k (wanted disc brakes, lots of hill riding) and have been very happy. The only upgrades to date have been the seats to fit our individual personal choice.

Buyer beware... it looks good on paper...

Of course.... but for $500 and free shipping, I've got an entry-level tandem coming my way. I'm no noob (nosiree, I'm gonna live to one hundred and three!) to road cycling, cycling renovations & repairs (I've ridden and still ride with bikes & parts that would make this bike actually seem like it WAS made by Lamborghini), and online shopping, nor am I willing to spend over $2,000 on my FIRST tandem (not yet, at least).... for that money, I rather by a new road bike!

I tried to weed out all the reviews that seem a) fake sales pitches and b) complaints about the company they ordered from and not the bike and c) from people who don't know much about cycling as best as I can, but after test driving a 78 Bob Jackson yesterday, with the summer fast approaching, with the Granville farmer's market that's about 30+ miles out up and running on Saturdays (seriously, think about 30 beautiful miles tandem with your baby, a little farmer's market picnic, then the ride back... Mmm... happy sigh), with the relatively small price tag for what you are getting (cheap components, noted), and my desire to ride with my baby (we never laughed and smiled so hard as we did cycling together at a snails pace of 12mph on the steel vintage tandem for those 2 miles of test riding), really........ I see nothing to lose!

Worse case...... get a few miles out of it, become unsatisfied, turn around and sell it off whole or in parts. And that's the WORSE case. Most likely though, I'd probably either upgrade parts or pimp it out to a townie tandem cruising bike before I did that.

When we get it and when I put it all together and get a few rides in, I'll let you know how it all went. Photos & all from a experienced cyclist giving tandem cycling a go. I'm a real person who's interests lie in music, photography, cycling, & sweet, sweet lovins (just go to my website(s), you'll see)..... I could care less if "Lamborghini" (man, I'm going to need some decals to cover that **** up) sold another bike ever again.

Anywho... I'll let you know how it goes! As you can tell, I'm pretty excited to dip a few toes into this subgroup of cycling!

I could care less if "Lamborghini" (man, I'm going to need some decals to cover that **** up)

If they are anything like the Caddie Up tandem I recently bought, the stickers are also cheap so they peel right off. :lol:

I am sure your Lamborghini will work well for you. These el-cheapo tandems do serve a purpose and enable people to ride TWOgether instead of not at all. Used, high quality tandems at a low price are difficult to find.

lol! I hope you are right! Lamborghini... lordy.

I have to admit, I'm ridiculously excited to share some miles with my baby! "Microshifts" and all!!!

Another thing to note is that if you put in a wheel wider or narrower the derailleur hanger will have to be adjusted/bent to get a good chain line for ideal shifting. It might not be that significant for a 5mm difference but if you have shifting issues this is one place to look at.

Don't *EVER* *BEND* a derailleur hanger! What are you talking about?

Just so you understand, you realize Sid was in all likelyhood a shill who's sole pirpose on bike forums was to promote the sale of that bike. So take the reveiws for what they are worth.

I don't think there is enough profit in a bike that cheap to justify the time/skill needed for a shill to plausibly imitate a customer on a tandem forum.

I don't think there is enough profit in a bike that cheap to justify the time/skill needed for a shill to plausibly imitate a customer on a tandem forum.

I agree. He even posted a Facebook link to dispell that notion. A very non-charitable reception by tandemers apparently so anxious to prevent rank newbies from buying inexpensive tandems that they would probably prefer that they avoid tandems altogether if they can't afford a "decent" used one. As if riding tandems isn't rare enough in some areas to seem almost goofy.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=8194101#post8194101

Don't *EVER* *BEND* a derailleur hanger! What are you talking about?

If you spread the stays on a steel frame, you have to re-align the dropouts and the der hanger. If any bike falls over on the rignt side you often need to re-align the der hanger .... if you crash on the right side, etc, etc.

Campy (http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs/catalog_13.pdf), (link is to Catalog 13, 1955, see page 22, Fig. R), Park Tool (http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=48&item=DAG%2D1) and others have been making tools to do just exactly that for at least 55 years.

What's the problem?

I agree. He even posted a Facebook link to dispell that notion. A very non-charitable reception by tandemers apparently so anxious to prevent rank newbies from buying inexpensive tandems that they would probably prefer that they avoid tandems altogether if they can't afford a "decent" used one. As if riding tandems isn't rare enough in some areas to seem almost goofy.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=8194101#post8194101

And have we heard from him again? He posts 8 posts all relating to a specific product, then goes away.

It's the classic shill pattern. It happens all the time in the road forum.


And it can be profitable. It moves up the links that you are touting in Google ratings. And it leads to people finding favorable reviews when they google the product.

And just because the guy has a Facebook account, doesn't mean he didn't have an agenda in posting about the bike.

My original point, and the one I stand by is that in evaluating the worth of someone's review of a product in a online forum you need to look at that person's participation in the forum. If they open their account for the purpose of touting a product, do nothing but tout that product and then disappear, you shouldn't put much stock in their opinion.

My purpose in pointing that out was not to be unkind to the original poster, but to flag the issue for people that will read this thread for the next several years, without having seen how it developed, and therefore would otherwise be unlikely to pcik up on the credibility issue.

In the other thread were there was such offense taken to the shill word, I told the OP I though he was a shill based on the pattern,and the limited posts. I said at the time if he participated in the forum on other subjects he would prove I was wrong.

Now months later, he's never posted on anything else. So draw your own conclusions.

I don't think there is enough profit in a bike that cheap to justify the time/skill needed for a shill to plausibly imitate a customer on a tandem forum.

How much profit do you think there is in a Bikes Direct bike? There was a constant repeated problem with BD shills in the road forum.

.... tandemers apparently so anxious to prevent rank newbies from buying inexpensive tandems that they would probably prefer that they avoid tandems altogether if they can't afford a "decent" used one.

Here, let me fix that statement for you:
... tandemers apparently so anxious to prevent rank newbies from buying tandems that won't stand up to the riding they intend to do with them that they get turned off to the whole idea of tandeming.

Trust me, if any of us could get a performance tandem for $300 or $500, we'd ALL be buying them and singing their praises.

And frankly, there are people and riding habits that lend themselves very well to the cheaper tandems. If your longest ride is 10 miles or so ... if your highest speed is 10 miles per hour or so ... if you just want a "knock around the town" tandem ... if you're a competent mechanic and intend to tear the bike down as soon as you get it to build it right and so on, then OK.

But for the majority of people who are looking to get into the sport, the cheap tandem is not a good fit, in which case they simply lose whatever they invested, and we, (the tandem community), often lose the team because they think "they" can't do it when it's really the poorly-sized, ineffecient, poorly equipped and improperly assembled "cheap" bike holding them back.

Oh, and as to the shill issue, I agree with Merlin's assessment.

And have we heard from him again? He posts 8 posts all relating to a specific product, then goes away.

Yeah, but he had a pretty contentious reception here, I'm not sure if I would have stayed around if that had happened to me. :rolleyes:



It's the classic shill pattern. It happens all the time in the road forum.


Yes, but that's part of my point: that this is not the road forum. There are waaaay plenty of people riding roadies...not so true of tandems... :D




My original point, and the one I stand by is that in evaluating the worth of someone's review of a product in a online forum you need to look at that person's participation in the forum. If they open their account for the purpose of touting a product, do nothing but tout that product and then disappear, you shouldn't put much stock in their opinion.

My purpose in pointing that out was not to be unkind to the original poster, but to flag the issue for people that will read this thread for the next several years, without having seen how it developed, and therefore would otherwise be unlikely to pcik up on the credibility issue.

In the other thread were there was such offense taken to the shill word, I told the OP I though he was a shill based on the pattern,and the limited posts. I said at the time if he participated in the forum on other subjects he would prove I was wrong.

Now months later, he's never posted on anything else. So draw your own conclusions.

I remember that, but I found it doubtful at the time that having been received in such a manner he would stick around anyway even if he wasn't a shill, since it would have been made very clear to him at that point that there would be essentially no point in posting nor sharing anything further about his cheapo tandem any more since the tandem nation has already derided both him as shill and his vehicle of choice.

I wouldn't like shills for Bikesdirect either. And I don't have the Lamborghini (i.e. I have the even cheaper Dualie), but it seemed to me to be available from multiple sources so unless he worked for the actual importer it was relatively unlikely that he was a shill.

In any case, unquestionably there exists a segment of the population interested in tandeming who consider the expense of top end tandems to be somewhat exorbitant--just like for single bikes. I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't envy someone with the newest, fastest, lightest bikes made. But even when/if I can ever afford a Calfee DaVinci tandem, I'd still be happy to see just about anyone get into tandeming - cheap, new, old or otherwise. :D


.

Here, let me fix that statement for you:
... tandemers apparently so anxious to prevent rank newbies from buying tandems that won't stand up to the riding they intend to do with them that they get turned off to the whole idea of tandeming.


Ah, the consumer advocacy aspect. You just want to protect them from themselves. :thumb:

And just how many tandem riders immediately go to time trialling or 100 mile road touring? Imho, most of the tandem questioners who mention cost are rank beginners who want to try it out with their wives or kids. These won't need racing wheels and carbon fiber parts. But hey, why let them get turned off by tandeming on a cheap tandem when they can get intimidated from even starting by initial cost alone? The only alternative being getting a tandem that everyone laughs at or reviles in this forum? A kind of upgraded laughing at the kids wearing "skips" when you have brand name Nike or Adidias sneakers... :twitchy:



Trust me, if any of us could get a [performance] tandem for $300 or $500, we'd ALL be buying them and singing their praises.

Performance? No. One would think that true for tandeming in general, but then they'd be wrong here. :D


But for the majority of people who are looking to get into the sport, the cheap tandem is not a good fit, in which case they simply lose whatever they invested, and we, (the tandem community), often lose the team because they think "they" can't do it when it's really the poorly-sized, ineffecient, poorly equipped and improperly assembled "cheap" bike holding them back.


I disagree. Those who want serious road machines or touring rigs will presumably know the whole bike cost vs. quality equation from transitioning from riding singles. Those who don't (imho the vast majority) and just want to see how tandeming feels like are better served with stiffer new cheap imports than the old flexy noodle rental tandem frames. In time, they may enjoy so much that they will upgrade (and then pass on their initial tandem to other new riders). Most serious veteran tandemers probably all come from riding cheap used tandems first. What was your first bike? Your first tandem?

By the kneejerk deriding of all inexpensive models (a "spandex weenie" trait), the tandem community stands to lose the team even earlier anyway by either deterring them from even trying or by putting them off from sharing about the thrills they get riding their "cheapo" tandem. It's kind of like saying if you can't buy a Mercedes Benz AMG then don't even bother telling us about a Corolla.

And to me, that is a shame.


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Ah, the consumer advocacy aspect. You just want to protect them from themselves. :thumb:

And just how many tandem riders immediately go to time trialling or 100 mile road touring?.

If you will recall the context, this discussion started in this thread and another where the OP was touting the Lamborghini as a good bike with which to do loaded touring.

I think the absurdity of the suggestion that one should spend $300-400 on this bike, put $500 in upgrades in it and go touring (as oppossed to looking for a good used Burley, Trek or Cannondale for comparable money) is what got several of us to respond as we did.

I don't think anyone told the OP if you can't afford a new Co-Motion forget tandeming. Several of us said at that price point you're better off looking used.

And just how many tandem riders immediately go to time trialling or 100 mile road touring?

Time trialing? Where'd that come from? As for 100 mile rides, (which is not really a "tour" incidently, since it's only a day's ride. Half a day, actually, for the faster teams. Uh, on a good bike, of course), my guess would be that 90% of everyone who frequents this forum has either already done a century ride on their tandem, or plans on doing one.

For Maggi and I, our first metric century, (100km, or 62 miles), was by the end of the first week, and the first full century by the end of the first month. And I don't think we're at all unusual around here.

I think the absurdity of the suggestion that one should spend $300-400 on this bike, put $500 in upgrades in it and go touring (as oppossed to looking for a good used Burley, Trek or Cannondale for comparable money) is what got several of us to respond as we did.



Absurd? There is reportedly a tandem team right now blogging about travelling across the country on this very tandem. What is so absurd about that? Are you saying that you already know with certainty from your own vast experience that this is a virtual impossibility? Since it is reportedly happening that would be absurd. :D


Besides, opining about the merits of a good used tandem is different from ridiculing someone about inexpensive tandems which is what we were discussing here.


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Time trialing? Where'd that come from? As for 100 mile rides, (which is not really a "tour" incidently, since it's only a day's ride. Half a day, actually, for the faster teams. Uh, on a good bike, of course), my guess would be that 90% of everyone who frequents this forum has either already done a century ride on their tandem, or plans on doing one.

For Maggi and I, our first metric century, (100km, or 62 miles), was by the end of the first week, and the first full century by the end of the first month. And I don't think we're at all unusual around here.



Good for you and Maggi. :thumb:


I daresay that you and Maggi aren't the types who would inquire about inexpensive entry level tandems (the kind of people that we're were talking about). :D


Newcomers to the tandem forum should be welcomed and their newbie questions should be answered without disdain. Am I wrong? Or should this forum remain well guarded against the vast unwashed masses? :(





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Trust me, if any of us could get a performance tandem for $300 or $500, we'd ALL be buying them and singing their praises.Where did someone claim a $300 tandem is on par with a $3,000 tandem? I must have missed it.

Would you agree that not everyone has the money nor the need for a $3,000 performance tandem? There are certain people happy with inexpensive tandems. I know this because my family is one of them. I have read several posts on this forum of people happy with their inexpensive tandem. Just like there are many people who buy $50 mountain bikes from Target and are satisfied with them. No, they don't ride them all the time; I don't think a $700 bike would necessarily get them into cycling more. It just isn't for some people. Just like some audiophiles gotta have the finest in audio equipment, and many don't justify the expense. My wife prefers to listen to the TV speakers instead of me "going through the hassle" of putting on the sound system for sports, movies, TV shows. Umm, push 2-3 buttons, wait 3 seconds for far superior sound ... but its her ears, and if she is happy, so be it. Its not the technology; she knows how to do it and can do it.

I have not seen ONE POST of someone saying they are quitting tandem riding because of the crappy quality of their Wal-Mart or Amazon.com tandem. I agree that could happen and they would not post about their experience, but lets go on facts, not assumptions.


And frankly, there are people and riding habits that lend themselves very well to the cheaper tandems. If your longest ride is 10 miles or so ... --misinformation-- if your highest speed is 10 miles per hour or so ... --misinformation-- if you just want a "knock around the town" tandem ... --I'd agree with you there-- if you're a competent mechanic and intend to tear the bike down as soon as you get it to build it right and so on, then OK. --misinformation--

But for the majority of people who are looking to get into the sport, the cheap tandem is not a good fit, in which case they simply lose whatever they invested, and we, (the tandem community), often lose the team because they think "they" can't do it when it's really the poorly-sized, ineffecient, poorly equipped and improperly assembled "cheap" bike holding them back.

Do you personally know someone who quit tandem riding simply because they purchased an inexpensive tandem? If so, why could you not convince them to purchase a better bike and find nirvana? Or do you just have a perception that people who quit tandem riding must do so because they purchased a lesser quality bike, and a high-end tandem would have kept them in the sport?


For Maggi and I, our first metric century, (100km, or 62 miles), was by the end of the first week, and the first full century by the end of the first month. And I don't think we're at all unusual around here.

There is a big difference between two experienced cyclists searching for a tandem vs. two people who are not cyclists looking to buy their first tandem. Granted, a $2,000-5,000 tandem may be the best choice for both of them. But a $300 tandem may also be the right choice for some people. If you can agree with that last statement, then please stop posting misinformation and be a little more even-handed in the pros and cons of inexpensive tandems.

Meh,

There is a team, that reviewed the bike on Amazon that has a blog at crazyguyonabike.com that has been going cross country with it, and just put on travel agents, new tires and a tuning.

There is another guy on RBR that had a collegue strip it down, sell off the parts and build it up with high end shimano components for cheap and do some hill climbs with it. They said the frame was impressively stiff.

Meh, a low end road frame will set you back 600 when chuck's bikes was operating. $500 for a running road tandem, knowing the components will crap out at some point is still a pretty good deal. The $300 Santana's are far and few between, and sometimes a $1000+ used tandem is out of reach for the casual cyclist. Gosh I just built up a Chucks bikes tandem for $1300 for me and my son, and in retrospect, wish I just spend $500 for the lambo tandem to putz around with and put the $800 towards another single bike. :D

Everyone has different entry levels, not everone is planning to do a century time trial hill climb. Most just want to ride 10-20 miles with a loved one at a moderate pace. For this, the Lambo exceeds expectations.

Absurd? There is reportedly a tandem team right now blogging about travelling across the country on this very tandem. What is so absurd about that? Are you saying that you already know with certainty from your own vast experience that this is a virtual impossibility? Since it is reportedly happening that would be absurd. :D

Never said it couldn't be done. I am saying its a really poor choice of equipment for that purpose.


Besides, opining about the merits of a good used tandem is different from ridiculing someone about inexpensive tandems which is what we were discussing here.


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Read my post No 12 in the companion thread that got all this going:


Trek, Canondale, and Burley would be a good start. You should be able to find a relatively new tandem in good shape from any of those 3 at the $1000 price point.

Santana, and Co-Motion are also two very respected tandem builders. But it might be a lttle more difficult to find either for $1000, unless your willing to go for something a bit older, more used.

Some of you guys really need to stop and go back to when you first got into cycling......... this is ridiculous.

What some of you are suggesting is similar to some dentist with too much scratch on his hands who decides he wants to go riding on weekends and goes out to buy a $10,000 road bike! The only good thing about that is when he quits, someone will get a good deal on a slightly used $10,000 road bike on ebay/craigslist.

As for the used route.... Anyone who haunts craigslist/ebay for bikes like I do knows, it's a complete crapshoot. Tandem hunting is only more challenging due to the need to get a bike that works for both partners! Then, when you finally find one, some Bike shop swoops in at :30 secs left to outbid you by a few hundred bucks.... and for what? Something that may or may not be a bike you still ride come Fall????? You then spent too much time hunting for the perfect deal when you could've been riding!

This Lambo, on paper (as it hasn't arrived yet), is a great entry-level tandem. And with a decent aluminum frame, it's a great starting point to build off of IF you feel the need to improve it.. AND... if come Fall/Winter you find you are looking for winter clothes for your partner because you don't want to stop or you are licking your chops for those Spring tandem rides AND you think a better ride is in order....... well then SELL the d*mn thing and go buy a better tandem if the desire suits you!!! It's a bike, and if you are a cyclists, you know as well as I do, that the more you ride your bike the more you'll strive to improve it. Hell, my road cycling partner has 2 fancy road bikes and he STILL upgrades bits and pieces... better saddle, better wheels (oh, because everyone know that the wheels on road bikes are crap), better bar tape for f*cks sake! And you know what..... so do I!

You bike needs evolve as your bike riding evolves. Have some of you forgot about the AMAZING rides you had on your sh*tty bikes when you were kids or young adults or when you first got back into cycling???? And yes, with my future Lambo, I may not have the butter-rific multi-grand ride you will, but I will have some cash in my pocket to buy us a little food for our picnic mid-ride!

Hell man, the 62 miler I did on my crappy steel ten speed that I stripped down to a single speed (where, I might add, I kept up AND beat some touring roadie bike club members) was one of the best rides ever and got me mentally ready to think about making the leap to a "real" road bike!

I really think some of you need to get off your near-literal high "horse" and just be supportive when someone has made the leap into YOUR WORLD and be excited to see what a $500 "Lamborghini" can really do!


Oh and whoever said "10 miles @ 10 mph"......... you win for stupidest comment yet.

Tsuru,

I hope the bike works out well for you. And I can see it being a reasonable choice depending on budgets, and intended use. (although I'm still questioning what the quality will actually be like)

My whole problem is a guy (not you) opening an account in the forum,soley to pimp a product, and making his first post a hypertext link of where to buy it.

There is a team, that reviewed the bike on Amazon that has a blog at crazyguyonabike.com that has been going cross country with it, and just put on travel agents, new tires and a tuning.

Where? What guys? I searched crazyguyonabike.com, and I can't find it.

Obviously, I'm wasting my time here. So be it. But let me leave you with some real *facts* instead of everyone's (including my own!), opinion. Stray8 says that my statement of a bike like this needing to be rebuilt right out of the box is "misinformation". Below are actual statements of actual owners on the reviews at Amazon.com. Granted, almost all the owners say they are still happy with their bike, but I know most people who weren't busy trying to defend their $500 purchase would be *pissed* at spending even that amount of money and getting a product like this:

"Tire tube failure is a possibility unless you take some time to talc the casings and insure the tire beads are seated right. Wheels needed truing, a brake pad was on upside down...."

"Probably the biggest barrier to serious touring is that the cranks are alloy but the steel drive sprocket is pressed on and the steel rings are riveted together. Same deal with the captains set." (So instead of replacing chainrings when they get worn, you have to throw the whole crankset away and replace it.)

"It does not come fully assembled. In fact, the box says, "professional assembly recommended". I paid $75 at the local bike shop to do the assembly. I recommend that others do the same. The derailleurs and brakes need to be adjusted, and that's best done by a professional."

"The derailleurs are not top of the line; in fact they are the entry level model. The rear derailleurs shift fine, but as with most low-end components, the front derailleur can't get the chain to drop to lower chainring once you have already started your uphill climb. You have to anticipate the hill and downshift while you are still on flat ground."

"The brakes are also low-end, and therefore not very responsive. The brake lever has to travel a long way to make the brakes engage. Since my son and I don't ride fast, that's not an issue."

"If you're a serious biker who rides 50 miles at high speed, this bike is not for you. Go spend $2000 - $3000 for a good tandem." (This from an ex-triathlete who knows something about bikes).

"The shifters are above par for this grade of bike. However the rear cogs are mounted on a freewheel rather than a freehub. That means the rear axle on the cog side has a longer unsupported length which is easily bent so this bike it for smooth pavement only." (Oops! Don't hit a bump!)

"Assembly directions are non-existent. The seat posts are of different outside diameters, the smaller with a sleeve with no label to indicate why. I found it goes in the front seat tube to fit the small clamp end of the stoker stem. The bike arrived with a broken spoke nipple and wheel punchings inside the wheel. The spokes are not stainless. There are no cable tension adjusters on the brake cables so you will need to purchase these and have them installed at a local bike shop. The wheels are very narrow for this weight of bike (43 pounds) so, again, ride smooth pavement only. The idler is noisy but normal for this type of chain tensioner. See the water bottles in the picture, pretend they are not there, they are worthless".

"Tuning the brakes and derailleurs has been a challenge because the wheels need straightened and keep rubbing the brakes, and the derailleurs are proving very difficult to get just right (I'm normally pretty good at that). I'm taking it in tonight to have the wheels straightened and the rear derailleur upgraded with a hardier Shimano Deore. I'm also going to look into upgrading the brakes or replacing the rear with a disk brake, and I also might replace the front derailleur which is not smooth at all."

"I would also eventually like to upgrade the rear freewheel from 14-28 if I can get hold of an 11-28 or something close because when we're going downhill we end up pedaling too fast and could use another higher gear." (He can't. There are no 11 or 12 tooth cogs for the outdated freewheel system. He'd have to buy a new tandem-rated rear wheel with a freehub. If he wants his wheels to match, he'd need a set, and the cheapest tandem rated wheel sets are about $300 or so.)

"So far, we've replaced a couple of crank bearings but that can be expected on any ride this far with bearings that aren't sealed." (No, it shouldn't. They had only ridden 1200 miles. We ran non-sealed bearings for 50 years, and they should last AT LEAST 10 - 12 thousand miles, if not 20 thousand!)

"The stock tires only lasted 800 miles. The front derailler isn't that great but if you use it right, it will shift properly (by anticipating hills and such)."

"The oddity is that the rear bike rack wouldn't fit on this bike as the distance from the rear axle to the rear seat post exceeded its maximum length."

"Although no instruction in box but setup is easy.
After some test ride I trued both front and rear wheel so that the brake pad can hug closer to the wheel. I then replaced the stock V brakes with Avid SD 7.(what a difference) This give me more braking power and more solid braking feeling. I then adjust the front and rear deraillers. I still can't get the front derailler shift from middle to small chain ring. But I can shift from big to small one in one shot. Upshift has no problem.
I also change the front wheel to have quick release."

"When I was informed to come collect my bike I was shocked to see the condition of the packaging. There were holes in it and it looked shabby. On opening the package I saw that the internal protective packaging was disturbed and immediately had a feeling that there was going to be some damage. I am an experienced bike rider in possesion of a couple of road and mountain bikes that I maintain myself. In a nutshell the front and rear wheels are bent, spoke damage due to the pedal arms that were protruding through, the rear deruillers are bent as well as the retaining plate. This I will now have to replace at my own cost. I also noticed that the wheels are not quick release as advertised and in this day and age you would think that it would be a normal thing to include."

"After assembling the bike I discovered that the right shift downshift lever tab had broken off. Because the 3/4 inch long broken piece was not in the box I assumed that it shipped from the factory that way. Not much is repairable these days so I had to buy the whole shifter brake assembly. Finding the part was a bit difficult because now the bikes are going to 8 speed cassettes instead of the 7 speed cassettes this bike features."

"My bike arrived with a broken spoke, it appears to be a packing issue. Another reviewer had the same issue and it appears it is how they attach the wheel to the frame. It supposed to have Shimano shifters, it does not. It came with MicroShifters and they seem ok. Frame seems sturdy. Rear wheel hub is warped and the wheels are inferior over all. However, considering the price of the bike cheap components is where corners will be cut. Brake calipers seem ok but the front cable housing was cut too short, so where it attaches to the noodle was problematic. Overall the bike was probably worth what I paid for it but I will probably end up sinking about another $500 into it to replace the wheels, pedals and rehab portions of the braking system. (Se he'll be into it for $1000, and last year my wife and I bought a perfect condition used 2003 Santana for $700.)

"If you are comfortable repairing and adjusting bikes you should probably allow about 3 hours to assemble and tune this one. Mine arrived with one broken spoke - easier to just replace rather than go through customer service. Both of the wheels had many small metal chips underneath and around the rim bands. I removed the tires, tubes, and bands to brush off the chips to prevent punctures later on."

"CONS: Quality doesn't seem to exist here, brakes are not okay, 7-speed freewheel hubs are very out of date and should not be considered for a modern bike build--no matter how inexpensive."

That's enough, I guess. Keep in mind, these comments are from people who, (at least at the time of the review), were "satisfied overall" with their purchase, and some were even ecstatic! I can't imagine what a review from one of the "I just got screwed out of $500 and I'm too embarrassed to admit it" crowd might look like.

I'll say it again, and I'm off this thread. At best, buying one of these bikes is a roll of the dice. At worst, it's like setting 5 hundred dollar bills on fire. If you actually attempt to ride this bike like someone does a quality tandem, I guarantee you will spend the price of a NEW quality bike in repairs and replacements over a 5 year period.

However, as I said before, if your longest ride is 10 miles or so ... if your highest speed is 10 miles per hour or so ... if you just want a "knock around the town" tandem ... if you're a competent mechanic and intend to tear the bike down as soon as you get it to build it right and so on, then OK.

As proven by all the above comments from actual owners, no part of that statement is "misinformation", or "stupid"

I'm done.

Tsuru, I am not dissing your choice to buy a Lamborghini tandem. Obviously it is the right tandem for you at this time.


As for the used route.... Anyone who haunts craigslist/ebay for bikes like I do knows, it's a complete crapshoot. Tandem hunting is only more challenging due to the need to get a bike that works for both partners! Then, when you finally find one, some Bike shop swoops in at :30 secs left to outbid you by a few hundred bucks.... and for what? Something that may or may not be a bike you still ride come Fall????? You then spent too much time hunting for the perfect deal when you could've been riding!

Don't agree with the CL/eBay comments though.
We bought our used tandem using Craigslist and we couldn't be happier. We found it within 6 weeks of making the decision to buy a tandem. We were able to testride it to make sure it fit both of us, talk to the seller (who turned out to be an honest dude), and we paid what I think is a sharp price.
All it took was some upfront thinking on how far we wanted to travel to buy a tandem (turned out to be about 7 hours) and search CL geographically using Craigshelper (since renamed to http://www.searchtempest.com)

Complaints about eBay sniping spring from a lack of understanding how an auction should work. The very first thing a bidder needs to do is determining the maximum price (s)he is willing to pay for any given item. You can determine that by looking at closing prices for previous auctions or using TandemGeek's excellent price estimator (http://thetandemlink.com/usedhome.html). Then you enter your maximum price and sit back. You either win or loose, simple as that. Responding to snipers only drives up the price to above what you had determined the item was worth for you
Having said that, I probably wouldn't buy a used tandem on eBay. Most sellers are too far away to be able to testride the tandem and most of them don't like to deal with shipping.
Duppie

Tsuru,

I hope the bike works out well for you. And I can see it being a reasonable choice depending on budgets, and intended use. (although I'm still questioning what the quality will actually be like)

My whole problem is a guy (not you) opening an account in the forum,soley to pimp a product, and making his first post a hypertext link of where to buy it.

I'm with you on the shilling accounts, I get weird "boardies" who are pimping crap every now and then on my own board (which I quickly delete & ban).

I promise to give a full update on the bike and let you guys know if it's worth the $500 or not. No shilling, no BS, just a legitimate (albeit, in "my speak") report...

;)

I DO think we cyclist can come off as serious ******bags at times..... we are hated by many, cars for being on the road, runners for being on the bike path (oddly), and for wearing funny looking clothes. It doesn't help that most cyclist I come across in full gear don't know how to nod and smile to a passing human.

But then, to add fuel to the fire, salt to the wound, uh, vodka to the recovering alcoholics lemonade, we get to a higher level on our bikes, where we have justified spending more on a bike than on our car (my car was $1000), where we think about grams weights of tiny saddle bags, and suddenly the rest of the world below our world is sh*t (unless it's actually better than yours, then it's either a) a complete waste of money in your eyes, or b) full-on hardcore bike p*rn).

Just saying, people have ridden thousands of miles on bikes that are muuuuuuuuuuuuch crappier than your "parts bike".

As cyclist and as people who want more cycling rights & lanes on the road, we need, you know, to lighten up a bit and remember what got us, not on two wheels, but to stay on them....



aww... all that sounds like an after-school special, doesn't it???

LOL.


Tsuru, I am not dissing your choice to buy a Lamborghini tandem. Obviously it is the right tandem for you at this time.



Don't agree with the CL/eBay comments though.
We bought our used tandem using Craigslist and we couldn't be happier. We found it within 6 weeks of making the decision to buy a tandem. We were able to testride it to make sure it fit both of us, talk to the seller (who turned out to be an honest dude), and we paid what I think is a sharp price.
All it took was some upfront thinking on how far we wanted to travel to buy a tandem (turned out to be about 7 hours) and search CL geographically using Craigshelper (since renamed to http://www.searchtempest.com)

Complaints about eBay sniping spring from a lack of understanding how an auction should work. The very first thing a bidder needs to do is determining the maximum price (s)he is willing to pay for any given item. You can determine that by looking at closing prices for previous auctions or using TandemGeek's excellent price estimator (http://thetandemlink.com/usedhome.html). Then you enter your maximum price and sit back. You either win or loose, simple as that. Responding to snipers only drives up the price to above what you had determined the item was worth for you
Having said that, I probably wouldn't buy a used tandem on eBay. Most sellers are too far away to be able to testride the tandem and most of them don't like to deal with shipping.
Duppie

Just to be clear, what I meant by "crapshoot", which I might have used wrong, is that finding the right bike at the right price at the right time, well, it's just tough to get all three planets to line up sometimes. Sometimes it works (like with my Kapu and my wife's Dolce) and sometimes it just doesn't (like on our 3 month long tandem search).

As for the ebay thing, we did that, we waited til the 30 minute mark to see what was happening, put in our max and waited. Last second, blamo. Some guy who "buys bikes" saw the good deal and bought ours...

by the way.... looking through the happy tandem photo thread........ I'm SOOO excited to go riding!!!

(although I'm still questioning what the quality will actually be like)

If the Lambo anything like the Caddie Up tandem I just bought, the quality is pretty low, no question about it. But its not like it can't be ridden. Some of those Amazon comments ... its like the buyers expected a $3,000 tandem for $500. Silly people. Maybe they've never actually ridden a department store bike before? But if they are satisfied overall it shows they expect some trade offs for the price they paid.

Don't be fooled, you do get what you pay for. See my Caddie Up review in another thread. Personally, I wouldn't want a Caddie Up tandem for myself. I built the bike, fine tuned it, and have ridden it around the neighborhood. Could I do a century on it? Sure, but I don't want to (weight, mainly). My wife and son are fine with it. The type of riding they do is also a lot different than mine (slower speeds and less distance). But they are happy, and that's great.

All of the Amazon comments above I have no trouble believing. Take a tandem with lower quality parts, ship it from China to the US, ship it to Amazon's warehouse, ship it to the consumer -- lots of stuff gonna get broken and messed up with all that handling. Higher quality bikes with less carrier handling are certainly going to fare better, but I'm sure those that assemble bikes at the LBS could tell us a story or two about the condition in which they receive some of their bikes.


At best, buying one of these bikes is a roll of the dice. At worst, it's like setting 5 hundred dollar bills on fire.

I'd say at best you get a tandem at a super low price that a couple is really going to enjoy and have no problems with it. At worst, you may get stranded on the side of the road and have to call a friend to come pick you up because of a mechanical breakdown you were not prepared for. But, that happens with $5,000 tandems, too.


If you actually attempt to ride this bike like someone does a quality tandem, I guarantee you will spend the price of a NEW quality bike in repairs and replacements over a 5 year period.

I disagree. A new quality bike is going to have a lot of costs over a 5 year period, too. My $1700 single has held up pretty well over 2.5 years, and I've already had to replace a rear wheel, gone through 4 sets of tires, cables replacements, brake pads, etc, etc. Not to mention, how many really keep their first tandem for 5 years? I've read countless accounts of tandem riders upgrading after the first year, and that's even after spending $2K on their first tandem.

The Lambo can be a good starting tandem for some people. Glad to see most seem to agree with that statement.

Where? What guys? I searched crazyguyonabike.com, and I can't find it.

Obviously, I'm wasting my time here.



It was 2guysonabike.com and is still cached on Google. Apparently their trip was back in 2008.

OUR JOURNEY
The trip: from Anacortes, WA to New York City, NY
Departure: May 20th, 2008
Arrival: August 10th, 2008

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:onZpFKtaD70J:2guysonabike.com/+2+guys+on+a+bike&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us



Stray8 says that my statement of a bike like this needing to be rebuilt right out of the box is "misinformation"


Nuh-uh. Wasn't me. :p


But I would say that pretty much everybody customizes their ride to some extent subject to their needs, wants, time and resources.


:roflmao2:

Some of you guys really need to stop and go back to when you first got into cycling.........


Here, here! I agree. There nothing wrong with giving good advice. But one ought to recall what they first rode and to take into account that most newbies interested enough to ask about tandems with regard to cost probably don't have the disposable financial resources nor the inclination to invest as much money into it as others...yet.

But nobody is sneering at the eccentricity of the cost of high end tandems (Great example with audiophiles, by the way) nor should those with expensive high end tandems sneer at those who only have inexpensive tandems. It almost seems like a defensive pre-strike jab to justify one's own significant investment/expenditures by ridiculing others couched as a consumer protectionist "We only care deeeply about what you ride...because it might not be safe or gulp, you might quit riding tandems..."). I think one has to internally decide whether it would be better to see more people ride tandem bikes of any type or better to keep it as a specialized luxury biking niche. For me it would be the former no matter what tandem I ride.

If you spread the stays on a steel frame, you have to re-align the dropouts and the der hanger. If any bike falls over on the rignt side you often need to re-align the der hanger .... if you crash on the right side, etc, etc.

Campy (http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs/catalog_13.pdf), (link is to Catalog 13, 1955, see page 22, Fig. R), Park Tool (http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=48&item=DAG%2D1) and others have been making tools to do just exactly that for at least 55 years.

What's the problem?

OK, I wasn't clear and I apologize.
Bend the derailleur hanger back to straight if it's bent (and if it's steel), yes, of course. Re-align the drop-outs to parallel after you spread the stays (if they are steel, too), yes. (And this action should look after getting the right "twist" of the attached derailleur hanger in the vertical plane.)

But you don't bend a perfectly straight derailleur hanger in isolation because you don't want to move the hanger out of plane from the dropout to which it is attached. (This will introduce errors that will make it hard to track down shifting problems later.) You need to have the dropouts "in plane" in order to avoid breaking hub axles. Once that's done, the derailleur hanger will also be in the correct vertical plane if it is not bent. If it is bent on the dropout (as after a crash, say), then straighten it. But when spreading a frame, you mess with the hanger only after you've aligned the dropouts. That's the point I was trying to make. Badly, I'm afraid.

And I have to say, re the topic that this thread is actually about, that many of the posters come across as nastier and in greater disagreement with one another than I'm sure they really are, or intend to appear.

Les

Fedex says, "Out For Delivery"....

WOOT!

Cool beans! :thumb:

Got it, put it together, did a rough tune and a test ride around the neighborhood! Pics and real "review" coming soon!

From my little art & audio bloggy blog...

TSURURADIO Presents...
A Review Of The Tonino Lamborghini Viaggio Tandem Bicycle!!!
(A little pomp & circumstance never hurt anyone)

A note: I was not paid nor was I given this bike free (I WISH) or even at a discount to review. This is review comes from someone who dropped 5 Benjis, money that was saved for this reason (well most of it, the rest will be paid back in the used bike harem I will be selling soon (after I figure out what parts I want to keep)). Nope, this is just me reviewing a bike we bought....

First, the source... The bike was made by Tonino Lamborghini which, from what I can tell, has no or very, very little relationship to the car that is fodder for many teenage boys fantasies (it's how they would score the chicks, man).



If I'm wrong, and they are in fact the same company, someone over at Lamborghini really needs to hire a cyclist to give them a bit o' advice, because this bike, though a sturdy aluminum frame, has more in common with a slightly better than Target department store bike than it does to some I-talian sportscar that cost more than a couple times our house.

It is sold through Amazon, and really there's nothing to say about that. Amazon is really the best online department store, they are quick, have a great system for checking on your status, and in past experiences when I had to return something, it was completely painless. They once competed with The Man and now they are The Man, but whatever. I love Amazon because even if you want to help the little guy, you can just buy through their zhops!

The name.... ugh. Tonino? Fine... Lamborghini? Laughable... Vaggio? Sounds like vagina. 'Nuff said.

Next up, the packaging.... okay, here's where Lamborghini really screws up. I heard online about people with untrued wheels, a few bent things, and almost everyone had a broken spoke. Well I see why, this bad boy comes packed in a box with basically NO cushioning (unless you consider the box a cushion?), and the front wheel is deftly positioned so the front pedal arm is going through the spokes, so just like all the Amazon reviews you read, I too had a broken spoke:



Well, I'm not too worried, I have other wheels to get me started, and after I get this fixed, I'll report this to Amazon for to get my repair money back, but that's me. For someone who had no spare wheels lying about and doesn't have a lot of time to go to a local bike shop, this must really suck. Packing foam ain't expensive, Tonino, learn how to pack and protect your ****ing wheels man!

Sigh...

Well, like I said, this was not a huge set back for me, so I carried on. The bike frame was covered from head to toe with something like a paper towel roll of cardboard wrapping. I guess it would protect the paint job, but if the box got hit, it'd do nothing for potential dents. After pulling it all off (and the kick-stand, dead weight man), I'm happy to report it was dent and, for the most part, scratch free. Here it is with the handlebars on and most the paper-towel-roll-wrapping protection pulled off:



Look at the dings in that box... could've been worse, eh?

Getting there... From here, building it was pretty basic. If you have ever built a bike for yourself or a kid for xmas, you should have no problems with this (hell, I didn't even mess with the instructions). Something to note, I read that a few people blew out the tubes the first time they pumped it up due to pinching, so before filling it with air, I took off the tires and put them back on, nice and easy, with a little bit of massaging, just to be safe. From there, filled 'em up with no problems! WOOT! Finally, about 10 to 15 minutes later, I had a us a tandem bike! HOORAY!



Yes, yes, tandem folks... I know that front wheel isn't good for a 40lb tandem carrying two adults, but it's what I had immediately available and it was FINE for neighborhood cruising!

The parts..... okay, THIS (and the packing) is why the bike is $500. Yes, the frame is aluminum, relatively light, and sturdy, and that's awesome, but that's about it. The integrated shifters are from "Microshift" and feel cheap compared to my Shimano Integras on Kapu and the 105's on baby's Dolce. The seat posts, handle bars, cranks, etc, all felt like cookie-cutter cheap metal, and the wheels seem like bad knock-offs to nice road bike wheels, but you know.... for the money, just twice as much as the "nicer bikes" at your local Walmart, I really expected nothing more.

And you know what else? They all worked juuuuuust fiiiiiiine. Yes, tuning the bike took a little more patience than it would on a fancy bike, but it shifted (pretty smoothly, I might add) correctly, and it stopped when I pulled the breaks, also pretty smoothly, and the chain went around and around when I pedaled, and the pedals stayed on, and nothing broke, died, or even exploded! Granted, it's only got a few miles on them, but I've ridden very, very far on much, much worse, you know??



Man, I used to commute on that?

Just know what you are getting and know it may take a little more love & attention...

Okay folks, finally.... the ride. What can I say? By the time we were done cruising the neighborhood, our faces were hurting from smiling and giggling so much! We laughed when we sped up, when we slowed down, when we u-turned, when we stopped at a stop light, when everyone who we passed couldn't help but smile themselves! Basically, all I CAN say is that it's a blast. It only vague resembles riding a single bike for me (the captain) as the handling and pull is so different and for her (my adorable stoker), she was just pedaling along, enjoying the view of, not just my ass, but pretty much everything! The only negatives, besides noticing the cheaper parts as a spoiled cyclist, was the noise from the chain tensioner (sounds like the bike wants to shift, not bad, just not quiet). It could probably use some faster gear ratios to get some good speeds, but really, I can't think of anything else to complain about!

I.e and simply, it's just fun.

Look, expectations play a big role in this kind of purchase. If you expect to hop in the Tandem De France (great name for a race, by the way, my gift to the people of France) with a $500 tandem, you will be sorely mistaken (and very tired)... if you hope to have some wonderful rides with your baby, maybe to a local farmer's market about 30 miles out in Granville for a mid-ride picnic??? Eh??? Baby???? I think you be in good shape!

So to wrap up and quantify....... My rating, out of a possible of 5 wheelies?



4 Wheelies!!!

I tell you... if they just packed the thing better, it'd get 4.5! You just can't beat the value and fun factor of this bike... and from here, if we need a better bike, we can easily upgrade the parts on this one! It's really a good deal, just KNOW what you are getting and don't expect anything more!!!!

Wowwwww... thank you so much for posting those nice picture. I'm considering to buy lambo tandem soon. =]

Tsuru, Thanks for the review. Been thinking about going this route to get my son on the road. A couple of upgrade related questions, as I have a lot of parts laying around:

1. Seatpost diameter?
2. What BB type is the frame set up for? From what I have read you can't readily change the chain rings?

How low can you adjust the stoker seat?

woodrow, no problem! If you or anyone needs other photos, let me know, those were the ones I got off last night. Note, those are my bottle cages, and I removed the kickstand and the chain guards (ugh, hate those).

and voodoo, let me check on that tonight, okay? we are going to the movies after work, but then I'll see if I can dig in there for you....

As for the stoker, baby's 5'7" and we got room to go. I'm 6'1" with long legs and the front fit me fine. But, I'll get more exact for you ASAP!!

I'm telling you guys, it ain't too shabby... though, I plan on upgrading with spare parts I have and making it more "me" if you will.

Maybe you can bypass the timing chain tensioner by reducing chain length and if needed use a half link to get it nice and tight so the chain does not drop off. I did this on a single bike when I converted it to a single speed. Use the URL below to see if you need a half link.

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/chain_length/chainlengthcalc.html