Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Lights on bikes - 1st brevet approaches

I am riding my first 200k brevet in January hopefully to be followed by a 300k ride in February. Obviously that means some night riding. I wanted to know what most people are doing for riding lights. My first thought was to ride with a couple of handlebar mounted LED lights and perhaps a helmut mounted light as well. I'd prefer NOT to invest $500 if that works. Thanks in advance.

I use three led lights: two mounted on the bike and one on the head. Actually, the head-mounted one (a Petzl) is the brightest of all. It can have different angles to light either the map or the road signs at eye-level

I use a $500 system, so by definition my current lighting answer isn't appropriate. I use a Schmidt hub with E-6 lamp, which added up close to $500 by the time I added in the wheel. If I were buying it over again I would choose the same, but substitute an LED lamp.

That said, there are a lot of cheaper alternatives. I use a Cateye LED battery-powered lamp as a backup, and have ridden extensively at night with it as my primary light. I started out using Microhalogen lamps with alkaline batteries, using them successfully for several years of brevets. I upgraded to using the same lamps with a D-cell battery pack, then with a current-leveling system, then with lithium AA's. Somewhere along the way I added in an LED headlamp, primarily as a way of seeing my cue sheet and lighting up street signs, and as a way of seeing to solve mechanical problems.

All of those systems "worked" but each provided an incremental advantage. The Cateye LED I use is the HL-EL530, less than $50. It's relatively bright but casts a tight, small beam. I'm more cautious about downhill speeds and on twisty, poor condition roads, but wouldn't hesitate to ride a night brevet with it if I had to.

Your night vision is probably different from mine--I know mine has degraded somewhat over the last 10 years or so. If you can, try the lights out in a dark area away from street lights before you end up on a black country road in a rainstorm.

Mark W

I went the $500 battery-powered route after frustrations with less expensive options. Several cateyes mounted below the handlebar tops and on the forks will light things up ok, but they're inadequate, at least for my poor eyes, in rainy weather or at any real speed. The Moab has solved all those problems and the light lasts through one full night, so it'll work without being recharged on any ride of 600K or less. For 1200Ks you do have to figure out how to charge the thing (charger strategically left in a drop bag) or limit your night riding to less than the charge life of the battery (not an option for some riders).

The $500 lighting system -- whether battery or generator driven -- is something to consider seriously if you find you like this whole randonneuring thing, but until you're hooked, you can make do with less expensive options. Back before I pulled the trigger, I'd try to make up for my inadequate lights by hooking up with others with more lighting power for the night sections. Still paying that debt forward. :)

Thanks guys. My plan is try out a inexpensive system before the brevet to see if that works. If the randonneuring is something I will stick with, maybe the $500 system will be a vaiable choice then. I do like the idea of shawdowing some riders with brighter lights.

My understanding is that most of the high-end systems have different brightness modes and I assume that makes a big difference in the battery life of those systems? I have not considered riding with a hub so I need to lookinto that alternative. Thanks for the help.

Ayups are popular around here, and on sale.
http://www.ayup.com.au/australia-shop-kits.html

Around 230US$ for a single light with 12hr battery.

My understanding is that most of the high-end systems have different brightness modes and I assume that makes a big difference in the battery life of those systems? I have not considered riding with a hub so I need to lookinto that alternative. Thanks for the help.

The Moab runs for 14 hours on the lowest setting; 8 hours on the brightest. I made it through PBP on just one charge, but I was not riding much at night. That light is now a few years old; probably there are lights currently on the market that are brighter and have longer life (and are cheaper) than this one. The battery recharges fully in 4 hours.

My $.02 on the battery/hub debate is that battery lights are the way to go for most randonneuring applications. A hub system will cost more for the same lighting output and the only time you run into issues with needing to recharge a battery is on rides longer than 600K, which very few people ever do (and for which can either drop yourself the charger or a fresh battery in a drop bag and solve the problem). Most randos in the US who have upgraded to "serious" lighting systems use a hub generator system, but I think that's only because decent battery systems are relatively new and many randos are quite slow to embrace changes in equipment. ;) Seemed like battery systems were more accepted in Europe.

This might help:
http://www.mtbr.com/beamcomparisoncrx.aspx

That's a great comparison! Thanks for the ink.

My $.02 on the battery/hub debate is that battery lights are the way to go for most randonneuring applications. A hub system will cost more for the same lighting output and the only time you run into issues with needing to recharge a battery is on rides longer than 600K, which very few people ever do (and for which can either drop yourself the charger or a fresh battery in a drop bag and solve the problem). Most randos in the US who have upgraded to "serious" lighting systems use a hub generator system, but I think that's only because decent battery systems are relatively new and many randos are quite slow to embrace changes in equipment. ;) Seemed like battery systems were more accepted in Europe.

The "top end" battery systems are actually more expensive than generator systems, once you factor in a spare battery.

Doesn't it occur to you that those of us more inclined to embrace generators have looked at the alternatives and have decided we don't want to deal with the vagaries of batteries? In fact, many have switched to generators because we've had enough of exhausted battery packs, failing light, the logistics of packing and changing batteries, etc. rather than being "slow to embrace" anything new.

Indeed, it does seem battery lights were in the majority at PBP '07 among European riders -- most of them inadequate. That's why, on every decent, I had 20 or more riders stuck to my wheel! That was w/ Schmidt & twin E-6s. Now, I have a single Edelux which puts out even more light.

Also remember Li ion batteries only last about 2-3 seasons.

I was a volunteer at the Texas Time Trials a while back (48 hr/ 500 mile). There didn't seem to be any consistency in what was used there- some really bright lights, some inadequate, one that I recall getting dimmer and dimmer on every 20 mile lap.

I am riding my first 200k brevet in January hopefully to be followed by a 300k ride in February. Obviously that means some night riding. I wanted to know what most people are doing for riding lights. My first thought was to ride with a couple of handlebar mounted LED lights and perhaps a helmut mounted light as well. I'd prefer NOT to invest $500 if that works. Thanks in advance.
I went through my first Super Randonneur series (200k - 600k) with a Sigma Designs EvoX halogen lighting system, and a couple of handlebar mounted LED lights and did fine. In my opinion, for the 200k, 300k distance, you can do fine with a handlebar mounted LED light on your bike (I'd also vouch for the Cateye 530 that MarkW mentioned above) and smaller headlamp (like Michel's Petzl) on your helmet. I wouldn't even consider a hub generator until after you've finished a 600k and you're willing to continue doing these rides.

Personally, I eventually went with a hub generator, not just for randonneuring but also for late-night, all-weather commuting, which is where, imho, a reliable dynamo generator light really shines. But for the 200k and 300k, it's barely needed. Also, depending on when your 200k starts, you might not even need it at all. In New England, our 200k's usually start a little before sunrise. We usually only need lights to illuminate our rides to the starting point.

When I met the first Canadians (Gerry Pareja, John Hathaway, Dan McGuire & Wayne Phillips) to go to Paris-Brest-Paris, in 1978 (PBP '79), besides the fact I thought the rides they were doing were crazy, one couldn't help noticing their obsession with lighting. They would come into the shop looking for weird and rare components (including smaller chainrings!).

I was curious enough to equip my bike with a Union BB generator and headlamp. Wow! That thing lit the trails of Stanley Park in the dead of winter. Combined with my mountaineering headlamp, I had what was for the '70s cutting edge rando lighting, though it would be more than a decade before I dabbled in the shorter events of the sport. Touring, commuting and racing were my thing. But it was randos that taught me what "real" lighting was about.

I can't remember what happened to that generator lighting system but when I started doing longer brevets, like most, I ran battery-powered LED lights. I invested around $130 for one of the better headlights at the time. It got me through my first 300s and 400s and my first full series. I still use it on one of my bikes as an emergency light.

When we are giving advice on lighting, however, we should consider that all eyes are not created equal (night vision, etc.) and not everyone has the same riding skills at their disposal.

A brevet on wide main roads, open to the sky, doesn't require the best lighting, but you will outrun most of the small LED lights if you try decents on pitch-dark, narrow back roads at anything over about 20kph. If those roads are at all tortuous, you will have, er, an interesting night ... unless you keep the brakes on. You may end up with hands and arms more sore than your legs.

Actually, on any steep night decent it takes very good lighting to enjoy the free ride (and faster time) with confidence. If for whatever reason you don't have the best lighting money can buy (no, it's not an excuse that you spent it on zircon-encrusted aero wheels guaranteed to make you .5 kph faster) then extra caution is the rule of the day.

My first 200K starts at daylight in January. It will be interesting to check out the elevations toward the end of the ride. Steep descents in the dark could be an adventure I've not tried. At my speed, I should be at or near the end by sunset if I keep moving. I could have a couple of hours of dusk or dark. The other "end" of the issue is tail lights and my plan is to have a couple of bright flashing red LEDs on the bike.

In fact, many have switched to generators because we've had enough of exhausted battery packs, failing light, the logistics of packing and changing batteries, etc. rather than being "slow to embrace" anything new.

Indeed, it does seem battery lights were in the majority at PBP '07 among European riders -- most of them inadequate. That's why, on every decent, I had 20 or more riders stuck to my wheel! That was w/ Schmidt & twin E-6s. Now, I have a single Edelux which puts out even more light. I think that the speed with which many randonneurs have dumped their 'obsolete' twin E-6 setups in favor of the new eDelux and Supernova LED lights puts paid to the misnomer that randonneurs are 'slow to embrace changes in equipment'. Folks generally seem happy to embrace change in the right circumstance.

Though, fwiw, I'm still riding with a pair of E-6's, if only because my desire to upgrade is outweighed by my budget ... which is another reason why I had posted a message supporting the $60 LED light approach. Sure, it isn't going to compare against a generator system, and it may warrant additional caution on descents, but it's still good enough for a brevet. I'd hesitate to confirm anything that furthers the perception that randonneuring is a rich rider's hobby. (though it certainly can be that)

The other "end" of the issue is tail lights and my plan is to have a couple of bright flashing red LEDs on the bike. just as a side note: it is generally poor paceline etiquette to leave your taillights flashing, as they're rather wearisome on the eyes for anyone following you -- plus, you're likely to get dragged into an impromptu debate about whether or not flashing taillights actually benefit you with drivers, who may notice you earlier, but find you harder to track due to the intermittent nature of your light.

I think that the speed with which many randonneurs have dumped their 'obsolete' twin E-6 setups in favor of the new eDelux and Supernova LED lights puts paid to the misnomer that randonneurs are 'slow to embrace changes in equipment'. Folks generally seem happy to embrace change in the right circumstance.

Though, fwiw, I'm still riding with a pair of E-6's, if only because my desire to upgrade is outweighed by my budget ... which is another reason why I had posted a message supporting the $60 LED light approach. Sure, it isn't going to compare against a generator system, and it may warrant additional caution on descents, but it's still good enough for a brevet. I'd hesitate to confirm anything that furthers the perception that randonneuring is a rich rider's hobby. (though it certainly can be that)

I absolutely agree. Notice I said in my post above that I used "lesser" lighting on my first long events ... because that's all I could afford. In fact, my first brevets were done on an old Nishiki with inadequate gearing, and a converted mountain bike!

I had to return to the bicycle industry to afford the good stuff. :)

But good lighting should be right at the top of the "must have" list for randonneuring. I see far too many riders turn up at our events with all their money sunk into "go fast" tech and some useless little LED strapped to the handlebars.

shimano 3n71 dyno is about $90, and it runs well, you might look into that (with a cheaper LED you could prolly get it rolling for $200-300).

if you plan to ride many brevets this year, it'll pay for itself eventually.

but no matter what you do, don't forget a helmet lamp for reading the cue! comes in handy.

I don't ride long distances, but I can help with the lighting. It's a DIY so unless you know what you are doing, don't try it.

This is my dynamo setup. 500-600 lumens at 30kph (Schmidt Edelux is 80 lumens at 30kph). Handlebar hi-low-off switch. Shimano DH-3D70 dynamo hub. Cost me about $150 total for unlimited runtime.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/3078680996_bfa40eef33_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/3077845047_a506b05b2b_o.jpg

The "top end" battery systems are actually more expensive than generator systems, once you factor in a spare battery.

Doesn't it occur to you that those of us more inclined to embrace generators have looked at the alternatives and have decided we don't want to deal with the vagaries of batteries? In fact, many have switched to generators because we've had enough of exhausted battery packs, failing light, the logistics of packing and changing batteries, etc. rather than being "slow to embrace" anything new.

Indeed, it does seem battery lights were in the majority at PBP '07 among European riders -- most of them inadequate. That's why, on every decent, I had 20 or more riders stuck to my wheel! That was w/ Schmidt & twin E-6s. Now, I have a single Edelux which puts out even more light.

(1) Most folks don't ever need a spare battery these days. So it's not more expensive. And there are no longer any issues with battery changes. Or failing light. Ever. The same or less money can get you more light for 600K and shorter. The Moab is less than $400 now. The battery lasts 14 hours if run continuously. That's a full night anywhere that an ACP 600K is run, and that's 95%+ of randonneurs need. Admittedly, most riders have an issue on rides that last more than one night. There, I think generator lights probably make more sense. But the vast majority of randonneurs never attempt 1000Ks and 1200Ks (or LEL or Ken Bonner's 2000K torture-fest). Of course, battery systems are ugly and don't fit at all with the vibe given off by the Brooks saddle and the Caradice bags on that beautiful, lugged steel bike. Totally true. I wish more would admit that there is an emotional/aesthetic issue involved in the choice as well a performance or pocket-book one.

(2) I'd heard stories before PBP about the crazy Europeans with their inadequate lights and the French, in particular, reveling in such nonsense as taping flashlights to their handlebars. I never did see the latter, unfortunately -- it would have made for a nice photo. It seemed that most people -- at least those I met over the course of the ride -- had plenty of light. The Germans as a group seemed to have invested heavily in lighting, as did the four Swedes I rode with on the first night. The French? No flashlights, but guilty as charged. Them folks must have much better night vision than moi.

(3) My advice to new riders is to get the lighting that works for you and your application and do your own comparison of what the technology is today. If there's an aesthetic component to the decision, then that's more than fine. (Hell, if I had a Rivendell or an Alex Singer then I'd never put my Moab on it!) But admit that that's what's driving the decision.

(1) Of course, battery systems are ugly and don't fit at all with the vibe given off by the Brooks saddle and the Caradice bags on that beautiful, lugged steel bike. Totally true. I wish more would admit that there is an emotional/aesthetic issue involved in the choice as well a performance or pocket-book one.

(3) My advice to new riders is to get the lighting that works for you and your application and do your own comparison of what the technology is today. If there's an aesthetic component to the decision, then that's more than fine. (Hell, if I had a Rivendell or an Alex Singer then I'd never put my Moab on it!) But admit that that's what's driving the decision.

If your "aesthetic" theory were correct, it should follow that I would have a battery powered system on my Marinoni Sportivo Ti (http://www.veloweb.ca/mybikepages/sportivo.html) and a generator setup on my Rivendell Bleriot (http://www.veloweb.ca/mybikepages/blerioso.html) ... when the opposite is true.

Admittedly, I have a second Schmidt hub waiting for a 32 hole 650b rim for the Bleriot. Then I won't have to fear the thing that happened last night, when my battery started to run down, 10km from home.

You are correct that newer systems have better run times, though you overestimate the manufacturer's claims and the longer run time isn't at full power.

All my bicycle tech decisions are based on what I believe to be practical considerations, following research and testing. If they look good to me as well, that's a bonus. As I've worked years in the bike retail biz, I also tend to personally steer clear of products I've had to replace time after time.

Schmitt hub and edulux. Buy the best. I'm not a randonnuer but my good friend is. He said buying the schimtt hub was the best investment he has made. He had a pair of e-6's before but now has the edulux.

If you ever get out of it, I'm sure you can get back a lot of your money. Also check around if anyone is upgrading to the edulux and getting rid of their older lights.

You are correct that newer systems have better run times, though you overestimate the manufacturer's claims and the longer run time isn't at full power.

I'm not estimating any manufacturer's run time. Niterider says the Moab runs 14 hours on the lowest setting, 8 on the highest, and 11 on the middle setting. That's what they say and, at least for me, that's pretty much what I've always gotten out of the light. Less if it's very cold (which it isn't for the brevet season here). And less if you don't start with a full charge. And less if you keep cutting the light off and on. But if you turn it on and leave it on, the thing runs as advertised. Don't know what to tell ya.

Has your bicycle retail industry experience with the light proven different? I'd like to know, since I've recommended the light to a number of people over the years and if it's not a good one, please do say so I can stop doing so. It's also quite an expense for it to be something that one would have to replace frequently, as you suggest. This hasn't been my experience at all, and perhaps there's some quality control problem and I just ended up with one of the good ones.

Also, links to all of this research of which you speak would be most helpful to most of us here with less randonneuring experience and no retail knoweldge or experience such as you have. Thanks!

You want 2 ea. Cateye HL-EL530 with something like a Petzl on the helmet with zip ties. Then at least two tail lights, at least one of which must have a built in reflector. If possible, pick tail lights which have some sort of gasket. This will get you through a 1200. It's not world beater lighting, but it's adequate. Some prefer running the headlights one at a time, but I usually prefer running both, one set nearer and one further. I put in new batteries, and have never lost power.

You can run one of your tail lights as a blinkie when alone, but with others always run continuous.

You'll also need reflective ankle bands and either a reflective vest or Sam Browne belt. Also a waterproof cue sheet holder that you can see with your helmet light. Oh, and two separate odometers.

I was a volunteer at the Texas Time Trials a while back (48 hr/ 500 mile). There didn't seem to be any consistency in what was used there- some really bright lights, some inadequate, one that I recall getting dimmer and dimmer on every 20 mile lap.

I rode TTTT in '06 and '07 -- what a great event. Thanks for volunteering!

One of the benefits to the 36-hour start is that you've got the 20-mile loop totally memorized by nightfall. Every little bump, crack and pothole. So by the time night falls, you're on auto-pilot and lights are unnecessary! ;)

It does get mighty dark out there in hill country, though. Wow. Beautiful place.

I'm not estimating any manufacturer's run time. Niterider says the Moab runs 14 hours on the lowest setting, 8 on the highest, and 11 on the middle setting. That's what they say and, at least for me, that's pretty much what I've always gotten out of the light. Less if it's very cold (which it isn't for the brevet season here). And less if you don't start with a full charge. And less if you keep cutting the light off and on. But if you turn it on and leave it on, the thing runs as advertised. Don't know what to tell ya.

Has your bicycle retail industry experience with the light proven different? I'd like to know, since I've recommended the light to a number of people over the years and if it's not a good one, please do say so I can stop doing so. It's also quite an expense for it to be something that one would have to replace frequently, as you suggest. This hasn't been my experience at all, and perhaps there's some quality control problem and I just ended up with one of the good ones.

Also, links to all of this research of which you speak would be most helpful to most of us here with less randonneuring experience and no retail knoweldge or experience such as you have. Thanks!

From NiteRider's (defunct?) webpage (http://www.niterider.com/prod_moab.shtml):

3 HID Light Settings
Fuel Gauge
7:15 – 11:15 HR HID Run Times
Lamp Out Protection
3 LED modes: Steady / Flash / SOS
4:30 HR Charge Time
720 HR LED Run Time

I prefer to recommend the products I believe in, rather than dis the ones I don't. That's how I generally made sales. However, the customer is right in the end and are entitled to buy what they believe in.

My opinions are liberally distributed on my website.

In the end, I lean toward generator systems because, however good battery systems become, they are still based on batteries which do have limited recharging cycles and the unavoidable fact that they have to be recharged -- one more chore I have chosen to leave behind.

Incedentally, try to find the Moab from the front end of NiteRider's website (http://www.niterider.com/bike.shtml) Not surprisingly, word has it that it is discontinued and there is nothing with the same kind of claimed burn times as a replacement.

I was a volunteer at the Texas Time Trials a while back (48 hr/ 500 mile). There didn't seem to be any consistency in what was used there- some really bright lights, some inadequate,

Just like this thread!

Yes the moab system is no longer avaiable. And niterider does not seem have a replacement with a burn time even close to what that system had.
Light and motion's seca 700 ultra system is the next new generation of long lasting battery run lights.

Light and motion's seca 700 ultra system is the next new generation of long lasting battery run lights.

The Seca 700 Ultra is $650, and the Race is $550. For that price, why not just go with a hub driven system and not have to worry about battery life (both on a per-event, and total life before replacement basis)?
I built a SON28/RR1.1 wheel with a Supernova E3 lamp for around the same price as the Seca 700 Race.

You want 2 ea. Cateye HL-EL530 with something like a Petzl on the helmet with zip ties. Then at least two tail lights, at least one of which must have a built in reflector. If possible, pick tail lights which have some sort of gasket. This will get you through a 1200. It's not world beater lighting, but it's adequate. Some prefer running the headlights one at a time, but I usually prefer running both, one set nearer and one further. I put in new batteries, and have never lost power.

1) what does that mean? (the 1200 part)

2) out of curiousity, about how many batteries do you go through in a year/season?

i'm considering a similar setup for my lighter/faster bike.

1) what does that mean? (the 1200 part)

2) out of curiousity, about how many batteries do you go through in a year/season?

i'm considering a similar setup for my lighter/faster bike.

If I may.

He means a 1200km brevet -- which must be completed in under 90hours.

There really isn't much of an issue w/ long-lasting LED tail lights. Just carry a spare set of batteries (can't get away from them, unless you wire a tail light into a dyno hub!). Obviously run times will be shorter with the light on steady, rather than blinking -- a must on brevets.

Many battery operated LED tail lights will leak and short, even w/ gaskets. Case in point: the otherwise excellent Planet Bike "Superflash." Put electrical tape around the joint.

If I may.

He means a 1200km brevet -- which must be completed in under 90hours.


oh, if I may ... I believe that, given mattm's posting history, he's quite aware of what a 1200k is. I think what he was asking for (if you re-read his message) is: why should one pick a taillight with a gasket for a 1200k?

I believe the answer is that for foul-weather riding over such distances where day-to-day reliability of lights is necessary, that it's best that your taillights have some sort of rubber seal, like a gasket, around any seams or joins in the unit. Planet Bike's old Blinkys were notoriously bad for this, as they were basically just a light unit with battery that snapped into a plastic mount, and there was no seal on where the two items snapped together. As a result, rain would get in and short out the system over time.

Since you can be legitimately disqualified from a 1200 for lacking proper illumination, it's best to ensure that your lighting systems are reliable and redundant. I don't necessarily think that gaskets are de rigeur but, more than one taillight (and preferably a spare in a drop bag or seat bag that isn't exposed to the elements) is advisable.

I've lost more taillights to having the plastic mount snap or loosen or otherwise shatter, rather than through environmental issues.

I went the Seca 700 as I needed a lighting system that would work for 3 different bikes.
If I was going to be getting a lighting system for just one bike yes a hub system would be better. But this offers a lot more flexibility.

I went the Seca 700 as I needed a lighting system that would work for 3 different bikes.
If I was going to be getting a lighting system for just one bike yes a hub system would be better. But this offers a lot more flexibility.

Fixed mounting is definitely the main drawback to hub powered lighting if you have multiple bikes you'd like to trade lighting systems between.

Supernova sort-of has a solution for this with the E3 handlebar mount, but you still have the issue of either needing multiple dynohubbed bikes (with the same connectors) or having to swap a dyno-wheel between bikes.

oh, if I may ... I believe that, given mattm's posting history, he's quite aware of what a 1200k is. I think what he was asking for (if you re-read his message) is: why should one pick a taillight with a gasket for a 1200k?

I believe the answer is that for foul-weather riding over such distances where day-to-day reliability of lights is necessary, that it's best that your taillights have some sort of rubber seal, like a gasket, around any seams or joins in the unit. Planet Bike's old Blinkys were notoriously bad for this, as they were basically just a light unit with battery that snapped into a plastic mount, and there was no seal on where the two items snapped together. As a result, rain would get in and short out the system over time.

Since you can be legitimately disqualified from a 1200 for lacking proper illumination, it's best to ensure that your lighting systems are reliable and redundant. I don't necessarily think that gaskets are de rigeur but, more than one taillight (and preferably a spare in a drop bag or seat bag that isn't exposed to the elements) is advisable.

I've lost more taillights to having the plastic mount snap or loosen or otherwise shatter, rather than through environmental issues.

I'm well aware of mattm's "posting history." Let's leave it to him then to clarify what he was asking.

Since I am in the position to disqualify riders who turn up with what I consider insufficient illumination, I am conversant with the rules and take the matter seriously enough.

The Planet Bike light I refer to (of which I've owned three) has a gasket ... and it leaks.

Agree more than one tail light is a good idea. I run three.

Noone here has mentioned some of the excellent LED flashlights that are out now. A pair of Fenix flashlights, with a pair of AAs each would have roughly the same light output as a single dinotte 400l light, for a total cost of about $130. Length of runtime is easily dealt with, just bring an extra set of AAs. You can get a coleman LED light at Wally world that has 110 lumen output for $25 that runs on either 3AAs or a cr123 battery. Four of those would give you excellent light output, and two would be plenty for most conditions.

The Planet Bike light I refer to (of which I've owned three) has a gasket ... and it leaks.

Which PB light? Is this only a problem with their older blinkies? I've been using the Superflash (2 versions over the last 3 years) without any leakage issues, even in the persistent PNW winter rains.

Noone here has mentioned some of the excellent LED flashlights that are out now. A pair of Fenix flashlights, with a pair of AAs each would have roughly the same light output as a single dinotte 400l light, for a total cost of about $130. Length of runtime is easily dealt with, just bring an extra set of AAs. You can get a coleman LED light at Wally world that has 110 lumen output for $25 that runs on either 3AAs or a cr123 battery. Four of those would give you excellent light output, and two would be plenty for most conditions.

Having multiple lights and needing to do multiple battery changes through the night isn't worth the grief.
Your 4 coleman lights would need battery changes every 6 hrs. Thats 24 AA batteries for a nights riding! :twitchy:

Which PB light? Is this only a problem with their older blinkies? I've been using the Superflash (2 versions over the last 3 years) without any leakage issues, even in the persistent PNW winter rains.

We live in the same climate, Clifton (except I live in the PSW:)) but our experience is different. I've had two PB Superflash lights which leak. The water pools in the switch -- which is, as you know, at the bottom -- and shorts out.

I will continue to use this otherwise excellent light, with a strip of electricians tape around the joint. I've seen a few of these lights w/ this treatment, so know I'm not alone in my experience.

Having multiple lights and needing to do multiple battery changes through the night isn't worth the grief.
Your 4 coleman lights would need battery changes every 6 hrs. Thats 24 AA batteries for a nights riding! :twitchy:

+1

The penultimate time I used a battery-operated headlight system (runtime = 4 to 5hours) on a brevet, I found myself at the top of a long climb, sweaty and shivering on a cold pass. I knew that my headlight was demanding new batteries (4 X AA) and that to make the steep, winding decent with the powered-down digital emitter was asking for disaster.

The better part of valour finally won out and I pulled out my battery case, opened up my light and began to fumble the fresh batteries into place. After dropping batteries into the roadside gravel several times, I finally -- after about five minutes -- managed to get them in the right order, w/ pos & neg facing the right direction. It then took another shivering five minutes to get the housing back onto the light. I was now thoroughly chilled to the bone with a long, frigid downhill in front of me.

That's when I swore off batteries.

I like generator lights for a couple of reasons:

One is that it is one less thing to forget when I head to the start of a brevet. The lights are permanently attached to my bike, and I don't have to worry about the condition of the batteries.

It is one less thing to get ready for a nighttime training ride. Once the kids are in bed I only have a limited time. If it takes too long to get ready I can't go as far, and I am less likely to go at all.

Another reason is that I can ride with lights day and night. Motorcycles are required to have daylight running lights, and I feel that they are helpful on a bicycle as well. I have had several people comment that they recognize me by my lights.

The hub dynamo suits me. It's always there, ready to go when I need it. The only disadvantage was the lack of brightness compared to some of the battery systems. This has been addressed by the new LED set-ups.

At this point I would no more use battery operated lights on my bicycle than I would on my car. I expect to be able to flip a switch and have light at any time with either. And that's all the thought, effort, and preparation I want to have to put into it.

Fixed mounting is definitely the main drawback to hub powered lighting if you have multiple bikes you'd like to trade lighting systems between.

Supernova sort-of has a solution for this with the E3 handlebar mount, but you still have the issue of either needing multiple dynohubbed bikes (with the same connectors) or having to swap a dyno-wheel between bikes.

you can handlebar mount your lights (or fork mount, or rack mount) and still have them come on and off rather quickly. and most folks I know have multiple wheel sets - I typically have the dyno hub wheel in the fork... but its not hard to swap wheels. moving from bike to bike (unless we are talking mtb to road) or some other tire size issue isn't that difficult.

Having multiple lights and needing to do multiple battery changes through the night isn't worth the grief.
Your 4 coleman lights would need battery changes every 6 hrs. Thats 24 AA batteries for a nights riding! :twitchy:

Sheesh! How soon you all forget. And it is only page 2. Have you remembered the OP's question? He is a Rando newbie, and I'd bet not 100% sure if after his initial Brevets he will want to do longer rides etc.

Sure Generator hub lights are cool. And even expensive lights with 14 hour burn times are great.

And yes swapping AA's all night would be a pain. But we are talking about a 200k and 300k ride. Neither is going to require lighting "all night"

So here is a thought. Instead of making gyrations over what you all like using now, for all ranges of rides, try and think back to your first Brevet. What did YOU use back then and was it adequate etc? I would be willing to bet most didn't invest huge amounts of money up front until they were sure they would be sticking with LD riding.

-D

And my opinion for the OP is that the Fenix flashlight solution could be an excellent start. Adequate light, long enough runtime to probably get through a 200k on one charge. a 300k with maybe a battery swap.

The added benefit is that if you decide you like LD riding, you can then invest if a better lighting system and use those flashlights as kick but around the house emergency flashlights.

-D

If battery lights are your thing, check out NiteFlux. They're relatively new in the US. We started carrying them recently, and wow are they bright! We've sold several different brands of lights before, and these have impressed me more than any other. Plus, you can use them as flashlights off of the bike.

http://www.niteflux.com/Products_photon8.aspx
The one at the link above isn't cheap. It's around $335.
There is also a Photon 4 which only has one light and is around $200.
They are both 4 watt LED lights. Run time on low is 24 hours. High is more like 4-6 hours.
On high, the light puts out 270 lumens. Low is 70 lumens.

If battery lights are your thing, check out NiteFlux. They're relatively new in the US. We started carrying them recently, and wow are they bright! We've sold several different brands of lights before, and these have impressed me more than any other. Plus, you can use them as flashlights off of the bike.

http://www.niteflux.com/Products_photon8.aspx
The one at the link above isn't cheap. It's around $335.
There is also a Photon 4 which only has one light and is around $200.
They are both 4 watt LED lights. Run time on low is 24 hours. High is more like 4-6 hours.
On high, the light puts out 270 lumens. Low is 70 lumens.

Wow. For the features, that's overpriced. With $335, Shimano DH-3D72/DH-3N72 (just came out BTW, 10-20 grams heavier than Schmidt SON, available in EU) + SON Edelux gives unlimited lighting with no battery hassle.

So here is a thought. Instead of making gyrations over what you all like using now, for all ranges of rides, try and think back to your first Brevet. What did YOU use back then and was it adequate etc? I would be willing to bet most didn't invest huge amounts of money up front until they were sure they would be sticking with LD riding.

-D

i went out and bought a generator system for my first 'brevet' (a 300k, the 200 didn't require lights) as i was done with battery systems - i had experience with a niterider system that went back to the manuf. several times and then on to several weak cateye's from commuting. a gen system is useful for other things than 'all night' riding... like commuting, errands, running about town... if a bicycle is a part of your life for transport - a gen system may make good sense.

that all said - i have really enjoyed the ixon iq light i picked up as a secondary light for my fixed gear runabout. great burn time, great optics (throws the led light where you need it) - and on and off the bike quickly.

And my opinion for the OP is that the Fenix flashlight solution could be an excellent start. Adequate light, long enough runtime to probably get through a 200k on one charge. a 300k with maybe a battery swap.

The added benefit is that if you decide you like LD riding, you can then invest if a better lighting system and use those flashlights as kick but around the house emergency flashlights.

-D

I'd agree with starting with the Fenix. With an L2D set on the 100 lumen mode you can get 4-5 hours of run time. You can also turn it down to the 50 lumen setting and get 10 hours. I used to run three of these (two on the bike and one on my helmet) before getting tired of charging batteries. Now I have a SON hub and Supernova E3. This setup was a long time coming.

The good thing about starting with the Fenix is that it makes an excellent helmet light.

BILLYPAT, which 200k are you doing? The San Diego 200k is the 3rd, and the PCH Randos is the week after. I am doing the SDR 200k. Although I'd really like to do the PCH 200k, the drive to Ventura is a bit far (I live south of San Diego). The SDR 200k is one of my favorite routes.