Mountain Biking - Electronic shifting comes out of the closet

Okay...it's not new tech.

Now that that's outta the way...the electronic Dura Ace front and rear derailleurs and shifters are going to be available to the masses in 2009. It's been tested for the past 5yrs on the pro circuit and they said it's ready for mass-prod.

The benefits:
-shifting is much quicker / snappier
-more consistant and precise
-automatically slightly overshifts and drops to center for quick changes
-excellent for cable routing
-Rechargeable batteries...just plug into the wall once in a while

The drawbacks:
-not avail. as a MTB group yet
-RD alone is at least $300
-if you run out of batt. on the trail...you're scrood


I like/don't like it.

We'll see how goes.

I think all mtb shifters should be flappy paddle and have an anto-blip feature.

This thread is worthless without pictures!

The system is worthless without manual override.

This thread is worthless without pictures!
It's in a paper copy I got from my Fa-In-Law...I'll see what I can do.

Look here. (http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-1-8-16868-1,00.html)


The system is worthless without manual override.
Agree 1000%


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VMBXGqBOWsE/R7sRp-6vUtI/AAAAAAAAAcY/Zxb7rKDaT08/s320/DSCN2720.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h28/chelboed/Bike/BikeEuropeWebsiteShimanoDi2.jpg

Yeah, I like. But as Ben says the man. override is necessary.

I would not bother to have one, good old mechanical derailleur system has been around a long time and works just fine, IMO. This new system is still basically mechanical, why add batteries and electronic crap- just more to go wrong on top of the mechanicals.

I dont like. Whats wrong with what we have now? Its not exactly like the disc VS. Vee, or the rigid VS. Sus fork issue. As it is, I think I can shift more than fast enough. But thats just my opinion. What the hell do I know?

I just checked out the written copy and the video. Pretty impressive, actually. We'll see how reliable it is.

Trust Shimano to actually come out with this, what with Mavic's failed attempt a few years back. It'll be interesting to learn about the the tech and development of this. I must say that it appears to me that Shimano has had the best track track record in new product development, less stinkers than Campy, for instance. Good on Shimano. I guess I'll predict that Shimano's electronic shifting flies, in one form of another.

Thanks for the pics, Ed. Would be interesting to see that stuff installed on a bike. Do you know what the longish thing with the slots is? Rear der. arm activator thing or somethin'?

Also, I'm not all sure that it would hold up well in mud. Rain, yes, but mud no. So it might work for trend following roadies.

Thanks for the pics, Ed. Would be interesting to see that stuff installed on a bike. Do you know what the longish thing with the slots is? Rear der. arm activator thing or somethin'?

I think its the battery pack and mount.

Chad

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VMBXGqBOWsE/R7sRp-6vUtI/AAAAAAAAAcY/Zxb7rKDaT08/s320/DSCN2720.jpg


Do the high-end roadies carry spare wheels on their brake hoods now?

Trying to get the bikes under the UCI weight limit?

Don't like it.

This thread is worthless without pictures!

The system is worthless without manual override.

HiJack(it's my thread, I can do it dangit)

Hey BenLi...I just clicked your YouTube link (not bad, sir)...I uploaded something of mine for ya just for the heck of it.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AWl3xKlc-g)

neat technology but I don;t think it will work well for MTb'ing

maybe on dry smooth single track but what happens when u go through a puddle that turns out to be a mini pond

There will be applications where it makes sense and other where it doesn't. Pro racers may not worry about the cost but the rest of us do.

I have seen one application that makes a great deal of sense. Pro level TT bikes can have shifter buttons on both the aero bars and the base bars, so no matter where the rider needs to put his hands, he can shift from there.

I could also maybe see downhill riders wanting to shift without moving the hands at all, but again, top pro level riders can afford the cost.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zxkVDkMcK4)

Get off that XC guitar, and get out the FR LT dualie Guitar

That was lovely Edward, thank you.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zxkVDkMcK4)

Ed-

Thanks, that was really nice. Love all the hammer-ons and harmonics-both hands, no less! What kinda axe is that?

And Ben Li-

That was real purty, young man! Love the classical stuff, it's like drugs for me.

For some of you who are racers and good at it or just outstanding MTBers, this is probably a good product. For the folks like me who are not high end, just out having fun, I don't think the increase in cost justifies the increase in performance.
Unless the costs come down significantly, I don't see this trickling down like other technology has.

Only chumps and weenies need this product. Everyone else who is a man would just ride a singlespeed.

^^^
Are you getting an electronic comp. set?

Get off that XC guitar, and get out the FR LT dualie Guitar

That is more of a "Trail" guitar. I used to have a nice Taylor, but I sold it to buy my wife an insulin pump. I still have a full-on Freeride rig (Custom Fender p90 Strat):thumb:


That was lovely Edward, thank you.
Thx...I really don't play the guitar anymore. Just once a week or so at church. I mix it up with the Strat and rock out.


Ed-

Thanks, that was really nice. Love all the hammer-ons and harmonics-both hands, no less! What kinda axe is that?
Thanks...I took lessons from my friend here in Topeka for a few months when guitar got stale and he taught me new fingerstyle techniques. Then we ended up just hanging out and playing together all the time.

It's an El'cheapo Alvarez 12strg that I took the octave strings off. I needed an acoustic and didn't have the coin.

Why not Bluetooth the system, Our GPS phones can track ride data, play our tunes, and shift with voice command. This is the eventuality for the roadies, as their useless arms will soon wither and fall off anyways!

HiJack(it's my thread, I can do it dangit)

Hey BenLi...I just clicked your YouTube link (not bad, sir)...I uploaded something of mine for ya just for the heck of it.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zxkVDkMcK4)

VERY NICE.

It's one of my long time goals to learn that particular style of playing. I tried to learn drifting by Andy McKee once, but I couldn't get the harmonics to ring out, or make the tapping clear. I basically attributed to my guitar. It's a cheap Rogue Acoustic Electric that ran me around $130, and I assumed the action was too high.

But anyway, I LIKE IT!

And Ben Li-

That was real purty, young man! Love the classical stuff, it's like drugs for me.

Thanks!

I'm trying the classical thing, seeing what I like.

I like the idea of electric shift on the road but just as I wouldn't buy a car in the first few model years I won't buy this stuff till it's been out for a bit. I'll try it in a few years on the road bike but I'll keep my mechs on the MTB.

VERY NICE.

It's one of my long time goals to learn that particular style of playing. I tried to learn drifting by Andy McKee once, but I couldn't get the harmonics to ring out, or make the tapping clear. I basically attributed to my guitar. It's a cheap Rogue Acoustic Electric that ran me around $130, and I assumed the action was too high.

But anyway, I LIKE IT!

Hehehe...that's funny. He's the guy I was referring to. He was my best man in my wedding. I used to be able to play "Drifting" when I played guitar on a regular basis. He wrote that one right after Winfield. I knew about 15 crazy tap-style songs and a ton of other crap by Preston Reed, Don Ross, and Michael Hedges. It was funny when Andy went "Big", hehe. We were like "whoaaah....dude".

I would attribute the lack of harmonics to the Rogue as well. They are pretty dead. Not necessarily the action though a fast action helps...more likely the density of the wood, construction, glue...all that crap. You can still get harmonics out of a high action...slap-harmonics are tougher though. Go to a good acoustic guitar store and pick up a Taylor or Goodall for a quick test ride and you'll see what I mean. Killah tones, man.


I didn't mean for this thread to get so dadgum derailled, but it looks like the consensus so far is majority-nay on the electronic shift. There are many steps it'd have to take I guess to be "off-road'able". I don't think water exposure is one of them b/c roadies race on the circuit in the rain.

WOW. It really is a small world...

But yeah, I was referring to the tap harmonics. I've become interested in "Rylynn" recently, since the style's a bit closer to what I'm used to, but I'm nowhere near that level.

...and yeah, a nice guitar would be nice. But I have too many expensive hobbies.... mountain biking, guitar, violin. Man, talk about conflicts of interest...

cars shouldnt be loaded with computers and neither should bikes. mechanical > digital

^^^^^
I like the way you think. . .

Mostly. . .

+everything

The system is worthless without manual override.

Carry a chain tool with you and you'll have a manual override.

Whoa! Screw the wireless shifting, you guys were awesome! I really, really enjoyed that BenLi and Chelboed.

Next project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsD6uEZsIsU

I already got the music and everything. This...may prove impossible for me at this point, but no harm in trying, I suppose.

Hey, I'd go for elect. shifting for DH. I'm getting winded from blowing into my AirLines system.

Next project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsD6uEZsIsU

I already got the music and everything. This...may prove impossible for me at this point, but no harm in trying, I suppose.

Ahhh...piece of cake. (;))The hard part is getting the technique. The easy part is practicing b/c with a musician like Andy writing melodies like that..."practice is perfect".

Before Andy was writing his own stuff...we oogled Don Ross, Michael Hedges, and Preston Reed...all the sudden, his practicing that he enjoyed more than anything started to draw out some creative ideas of his own. Now...IMO...he's surpassed them in many ways.

Something you may want to work on is basic technique by learning portions of the songs. The first "real" one I learned was Larry's World off the "Wood and Steel #1" album. After that, it was the Stonecutter by Preston Reed. Practiced that tapping over and over...loved every minute of it when it began to sound like something.

I'll post up a segment of the Stonecutter in slow and fast sometime soon so you can get your "tap on", hehe. The tap-style stuff made me a better all around player...even on the Strat. It made me realize how much I limited myself with standard tuning and fingerings. Open strings, open harmonics, percussion...really juiced my goose:D

Ahhh...piece of cake. (;))

Don't mis-interpret me though dude. I don't wanna come off all "Oh that's easy" kinda crap because it's not. The main point is that it's easy practicing b/c it's just fun to do it.

I can remember prior to wife and kids...I sat in my room one day and played for 6hrs. I only played 4 songs. Just did them over and over...when I had a hitch in a section...I played the transition over and over.

Now that I have a wife, kids, career, biking...I'm a slouch again:D One day I'll get back into it.

Of course. I understand what you meant.

You'll be the first to know if I make any significant progress on the song.

Can we please get back on topic? This thread was about chumps with gears vs. manly singlespeeders.

No kidding...who started this crap anyways?!!! Sheesh!

Another thing it thought of...if the world is starting to lean toward the Hammerschmidt design for a front setup...you'd have to design an electric solenoid for that or you will be stuck with a cable front and electric rear.

^^ and 2-to-1 or 1-to-1 ratio solenoids; and maybe positive-ground systems vs. negative-ground; and . . . .

i ride a bike because it is completely self sufficient, my self being the only weak link in the entire set up.

i can see it now

(on the side of the trail)

"aww come on man help a brother out my bike needs a jump!"

^^^If they run the whole setup off AAA's or something then we'll all be carrying spares in our camelbak.

There was also mention about some more R & D on hydraulic shifting systems.

There was also mention about some more R & D on hydraulic shifting systems.Shifts won't be any more powerful than mechanical shifting, it'll require constant fiddling and adjusting, will leak fluid and need periodic finnicky bleeding sessions.


:D

Not to mention that when you shift too fast for too long you'll boil the fluid and shifting performance will noticeably fade.

I dont see why everyone is so against this. Its called evolution, people need to experiment with different things to see what works and what doesn't. When suspension first came out most were against it, when 7spd, 8spd, 9spd, now 10spd on road stuff everyone said it was too much and would cause all kinds of problems, rear suspension, mechanical discs, hyrdo discs...same thing. Everyone is always quick to doubt every new product that comes out and usually ends up loving it.

Everyone is complaining about price, its dura ace, its meant to be the best possible drivetrain availible, its not about being affordable....its for those who want the best and are willing to pay for it. That is why their is always going to be ultegra, 105, xt, lx, deore, you get the idea. The stuff that went over well and is reliable will trickle down, the stuff that doesnt wont.

I think its a really cool idea and i have alot more faith in shimano pulling off the electronic shift than mavic so personally, im excited about it (not that I can afford it) In testing they are getting easily 1000 miles out of a charge so your not charging the batt. every ride and if they do a good job sealing it from the elements (im sure it was a priority) it will be even better, personally I ride in alot of nasty conditions and going through cables a couple times a year can be a pain (they could last longer but im picky about shift feel) I also belive that if the system was that unreliable that pro teams would refuse to ride it in a big race. They wouldnt risk loosing any big races with a super unreliable system when they have a perfectly good mech. dura ace system lying around.

*end rant*:50:

^^^If they run the whole setup off AAA's or something then we'll all be carrying spares in our camelbak.

AA's. AAA's suck. More than half the size with less then half the performance.

leave no trace except tire tracks and dead batteries.