Advocacy & Safety - When Drivers Try To Be "Nice"

I was out riding today and came to a 4-way stop intersection. There were two cars ahead of me in the lane with their right turn signals on. Since there was no bike lane and I am going straight, not turning, I get in line behind car #2.

The first car turns and car #2 moves up to the line and doesn't go. I look up and see the passenger in the side mirror motioning me to go ahead of them. I shake my head no. There is cross traffic and car #2 is a boxy Scion that would pretty much hide me from the cross traffic until I got into the intersection. The passenger motions again, and I say "Just go!". The driver then guns the car around the corner and honks her horn at me.

This type of thing has happened to me on several occasions. I know the drivers think they're being nice, but in reality they make things more dangerous for the cyclist. That driver now probably has a bad feeling about cyclists, since I didn't appreciate her being "nice".

Anyone else have this happen?

I was out riding today and came to a 4-way stop intersection. There were two cars ahead of me in the lane with their right turn signals on. Since there was no bike lane and I am going straight, not turning, I get in line behind car #2.

The first car turns and car #2 moves up to the line and doesn't go. I look up and see the passenger in the side mirror motioning me to go ahead of them. I shake my head no. There is cross traffic and car #2 is a boxy Scion that would pretty much hide me from the cross traffic until I got into the intersection. The passenger motions again, and I say "Just go!". The driver then guns the car around the corner and honks her horn at me.

This type of thing has happened to me on several occasions. I know the drivers think they're being nice, but in reality they make things more dangerous for the cyclist. That driver now probably has a bad feeling about cyclists, since I didn't appreciate her being "nice".

Anyone else have this happen?

I have several 3 way and 4 way stops.
Sometimes they are 3 on Cell Phones.
I have to Yell, Your Turn Lady.

Yeah, happens a lot. I just stop, put a foot down and wait until they go.

If a driver motions me forward in that sceneraio , I try not to look at them and take the opportunity to drink from my water bottles.
They usually get the message.

I was out riding today and came to a 4-way stop intersection. There were two cars ahead of me in the lane with their right turn signals on. Since there was no bike lane and I am going straight, not turning, I get in line behind car #2.

The first car turns and car #2 moves up to the line and doesn't go. I look up and see the passenger in the side mirror motioning me to go ahead of them. I shake my head no. There is cross traffic and car #2 is a boxy Scion that would pretty much hide me from the cross traffic until I got into the intersection. The passenger motions again, and I say "Just go!". The driver then guns the car around the corner and honks her horn at me.

This type of thing has happened to me on several occasions. I know the drivers think they're being nice, but in reality they make things more dangerous for the cyclist. That driver now probably has a bad feeling about cyclists, since I didn't appreciate her being "nice".

Anyone else have this happen?
Yeah. My mom even does this. I had to educate her about it.

Put your foot down, look at the driver, when they motion you to go, shake your head, motion them to go, and then once everything is sorted out, ride away. Never sacrifice your safety to make some one else think they did something nice for you.

Just go. That'll teach the *******s for being nice.

As soon as I saw the cars intending to turn right, I'd have pulled around them on their left and gone straight to the front. Then they could make their turn whenever they wanted and I could have gone straight whenever I wanted to and we'd have all lived happily ever after without ever having to think about each other again (since our path would no longer have any potential of crossing).

It saves time for everone, is safer, and is expressly permitted by california vehicle code (allowed to move away from the right side of the road wherever a right turn is authorized: so you don't get right hooked!).

Just go. That'll teach the *******s for being nice.

The driver was expecting me to basically pass her on the right, near the curb (no bike lane). Since there was cross traffic I would have had to squeeze past her and then take my chances that the cross traffic saw me when I came out behind her car. I was waiting my turn behind her, not beside her. The other driver in the car at the stop sign coming perpendicular to us was getting confused because he could see she was waiting but didn't know why - I don't think he could see me behind her.



As soon as I saw the cars intending to turn right, I'd have pulled around them on their left. then they could make their turn whenever they wanted and I could have gone straight whenever I wanted to and we'd have all lived happily ever after without ever having to think about each other again (since our path would no longer have any potential of crossing).

Not only is that safer, but it's expressly permitted by california vehicle code (allowed to move away from the right side of the road wherever a right turn is authorized: so you don't get right hooked!).

This was a single lane at a stop sign. The lane was narrow and I would have had to go into the oncoming lane to pass her. I've never had someone expect me to come from behind on the right and pass them when I'm going straight and they are turning. Especially after I had unclipped and it was clear that I was waiting my turn.

The driver was expecting me to basically pass her on the right, near the curb (no bike lane). Since there was cross traffic I would have had to squeeze past her and then take my chances that the cross traffic saw me when I came out behind her car. I was waiting my turn behind her, not beside her. The other driver in the car at the stop sign coming perpendicular to us was getting confused because he could see she was waiting but didn't know why - I don't think he could see me behind her.

This was a single lane at a stop sign. The lane was narrow and I would have had to go into the oncoming lane to pass her. I've never had someone expect me to come from behind on the right and pass them when I'm going straight and they are turning. Especially after I had unclipped and it was clear that I was waiting my turn.

It sounds like you're sure you did everything right, and you're posting here so we can all say poor baby. So I'll say it,

"Poor baby! I'm sorry this awful thing happened to you. Thank God you weren't killed. I'm giving you a great big e-hug." :(

It sounds like you're sure you did everything right, and you're posting here so we can all say poor baby. So I'll say it,

"Poor baby! I'm sorry this awful thing happened to you. I'm giving you a great big e-hug." :(

Not at all. I asked if anyone else had things like this happen to them.

My point is that even when drivers think they're being nice, they can still put us in danger without realizing it. And if the cyclist declines their "nice" gesture, they should just keep driving and not get upset about it.

While I appreciate courtesy, it really is easier, and safer, when everyone obeys the same set of rules.

It's a tough call sometimes but if you're going to insist they take their turn, please be non-confrontational about it. Putting a foot down or taking a drink are great ways to communicate your intent.

Not at all. I asked if anyone else had things like this happen to them.

My point is that even when drivers think they're being nice, they can still put us in danger without realizing it. And if the cyclist declines their "nice" gesture, they should just keep driving and not get upset about it.

OK then. Yes, I have things like this happen to me all the time.

Unless the driver is writing about you on her cager forum right now, I'd guess you're more upset than she is.

This was a single lane at a stop sign. The lane was narrow and I would have had to go into the oncoming lane to pass her.

I really doubt that. People don't hug the center line when they are going to turn to the right. They edge at least partly to the right to begin their turn. But if you intended to wait behind the cars anyway, it would have been better to wait for them towards the left side of the lane, not on the right (you said you could see the passenger in the side mirror so I assume you were hugging the curb area). That would clearly show the car that you have no intention of going down their right side and plan to go straight at the stop sign.

I really doubt that. People don't hug the center line when they are going to turn to the right. They edge at least partly to the right to begin their turn. But if you intended to wait behind the cars anyway, it would have been better to wait for them towards the left side of the lane, not on the right (you said you could see the passenger in the side mirror so I assume you were hugging the curb area). That would clearly show the car that you have no intention of going down their right side and plan to go straight at the stop sign.

Yes. Lateral positioning probably does more to convey your intentions than just about anything else.

Not at all. I asked if anyone else had things like this happen to them.

My point is that even when drivers think they're being nice, they can still put us in danger without realizing it. And if the cyclist declines their "nice" gesture, they should just keep driving and not get upset about it.

I probably have had it happen but it's been long enough ago that I can't really remember a specific instance.

If I understand correctly, you were behind and to the right of a motorist who intended to turn right-- in other words, in the blind spot. The driver probably couldn't see you and was just as likely being cautious as being nice.

You were right not to pass on the right but you were in a bad place. If I'm goin to wait in line, then I get in line behind the vehicle I'm waiting for. They should be able to see me in their rear-view mirror. If I'm as far left as I like to be, then then I'm not visible in the passenger side mirror. A lot of drivers don't know how to use that mirror anyway. Actually, if I'm waiting in line like that, I prefer to be left of the center of the lane because that makes me more visible to oncomming traffic.

The other alternative (not a great one) is to remain on the right but stay WAY back.

BTW, I like your avatar. I've always been fond of pictures of the painted cat, the American lion, 'the cat of many names,' or whatever you call it. Interesting coloring on that one.

Why even acknowledge the passenger? You're addressing the driver's actions even though you stated it was the passenger who was directing you to go ahead. Unless you're inside the vehicle there's no way you can know if the passenger is communicating what they're doing to the driver, or vice-versa. Whether I was on a bike, in a car, or on foot, I wouldn't heed any direction from anyone within a vehicle other than the driver who is controlling the vehicle.

I really doubt that. People don't hug the center line when they are going to turn to the right. They edge at least partly to the right to begin their turn. But if you intended to wait behind the cars anyway, it would have been better to wait for them towards the left side of the lane, not on the right (you said you could see the passenger in the side mirror so I assume you were hugging the curb area). That would clearly show the car that you have no intention of going down their right side and plan to go straight at the stop sign.

I see a lot of people do that. They are looking right and their car slowly drifts to the left. More so when they are driving and going to turn right but I do see it sometimes when coming to a stop.
We have these nice messes here at the lot of my office and the lot around the mall. Both have a road circling the parking lot and several entrances where some have 4 way stops and some have three way stops with no stop on the incomng lane. A lot of times people will stop where there are no stop signs or people will stop then assume the incoming driver will stop so they will just go ahead and start going. The other night a small Honda without his lights on stopped then started to go and almost got hit by the traffic coming in and it was my turn to go before him so I start to go once the incomng traffic was past and had to make the left in front of him while he was sitting in the middle of the intersection. I flashed my light at him hoping he would at least turn on hs lights since it was dark then.

It sounds like you're sure you did everything right, and you're posting here so we can all say poor baby. So I'll say it,

"Poor baby! I'm sorry this awful thing happened to you. Thank God you weren't killed. I'm giving you a great big e-hug." :(

You do realize that this is a forum where people talk about things that happen when riding bicycles, right?

I really doubt that. People don't hug the center line when they are going to turn to the right. They edge at least partly to the right to begin their turn. But if you intended to wait behind the cars anyway, it would have been better to wait for them towards the left side of the lane, not on the right (you said you could see the passenger in the side mirror so I assume you were hugging the curb area). That would clearly show the car that you have no intention of going down their right side and plan to go straight at the stop sign.

Come on, you weren't there. You have no idea what the street looked like, how narrow it was, where the cars were, etc. There's no reason to doubt Cbad's account.

This is another instance of an A&S clairvoyant.

Not at all. I asked if anyone else had things like this happen to them.

Are you sure? I was lining up for one of them e-hugs too! :love:

Seriously, though, I just wrote about the same thing on the forum last night when someone asked about trackstanding. I can't really do that, but I will try to slow down to a crawl to avoid putting a foot down at an intersection. But I've learned that, especially at all-way stop intersections, putting a foot down is a must, if only to send the signal to the cagers at the intersection that you intend to play by the rules they have to play by.

BTW, I like your avatar. I've always been fond of pictures of the painted cat, the American lion, 'the cat of many names,' or whatever you call it. Interesting coloring on that one.

Looks to me like a Nittany Lion prowling around Southern Cal and ready to pounce on New Years day.

This is something that happens a lot and it is irritating.

Why someone would feel like they have to insult the OP for posting this I don't know.

Usually I deal with it by just ignoring the "nice" driver. Recently I was at a red light behind an elderly driver. He was staring at the mirror, keeping a close eye on me. So, as soon as the light turns and I start following him through the intersection, he panics, slams on his brakes and starts waving me through. At that point I had to start yelling at him and telling him to get his ass moving...etc. etc. But usually ignoring works.

I did until I used hand signals and lane position.
Along with hi visible gear most people have no problems understanding my predictability.

I was creamed by a car in a situation where people were trying to be 'nice' and circumvent
the natural order and rules.

I now just do my own thing and take my turn, and if someone offers to mess up the
rotation I just ignore them and wait it out. so be it if they get pissed. f' them

You do realize that this is a forum where people talk about things that happen when riding bicycles, right?

Something happened? I must have missed it.

This is something that happens a lot and it is irritating.

Why someone would feel like they have to insult the OP for posting this I don't know.

Usually I deal with it by just ignoring the "nice" driver. Recently I was at a red light behind an elderly driver. He was staring at the mirror, keeping a close eye on me. So, as soon as the light turns and I start following him through the intersection, he panics, slams on his brakes and starts waving me through. At that point I had to start yelling at him and telling him to get his ass moving...etc. etc. But usually ignoring works.

Yelling at an elderly driver....an e-hug for you too.

Something happened? I must have missed it.


Yelling at an elderly driver....an e-hug for you too.

You need to HTFU and CTFD.

Something happened? I must have missed it.

Yeah, you are flirting with joining The Dark Side of BF" - the posters who are skeptical of all the whining and complaining about those other cyclists (and motorists) who don't follow the Rulz as laid out by the whiner.

to the OP: this happens to me fairly frequently. This seems to be part of the Central Pennsylvania driving style. In fact, it seems like someone around here caused an accident this way and was charged for improper yielding of their right of way. I just sit until they go. They may feel grumpy that I don't do what they want, but it's safer, quicker and more predictable if they simply follow the rules of the road.

The situation in the OP sounds like a real idiot for a driver.

The one I often have trouble with is when making a left turn having a single car coming towards me stop and motion me through (on a multi lane street). No thanks. It get really annoying when if they had just gone I would have had a nice clear path and good sightlines. Occasionally I have the same thing happening when driving.

The one I find the most amusing is when at a left turn lane the driver stops far back, not wanting to get too close. They mean well, but Often a bike won't trigger the light and they are too far back. But so far I've always gotten the idea across by wving them forward and pointing to the sensor.

Anyone else have this happen?

I haven't but I usually ride smack in the middle of the lane in that situation. I've had people try to "be nice" when I would feel more comfortable with the rules of the road. I usually just smile and wave them on saying something like "I'm out here for fun." I would call your situation particularly peculiar. Best to avoid all the way around. :trainwreck:

When I was driving for work today I had a bicyclist on my right and I didn't want to right hook him of course so I let him get ahead and wanted to tuck in behind him before making my right hand turn. But I guess he didn't trust me so he pulled over before the intersection and waited for me. After I went slowly behind him and tried to wait for him to go through the intersection first, the least he could do would be to go so I feel my effort meant something instead of wishing I'd not have wasted my time and had just gone in front of the guy in the first place.

That's why I really find it preferable for riders who are going to go straight to get themselves over where the driver of a car going straight would be (the left side of the lane) as they approach the stop sign. Then I could have gone to his inside and made my right turn right away. Grr...

I was out riding today and came to a 4-way stop intersection. There were two cars ahead of me in the lane with their right turn signals on. Since there was no bike lane and I am going straight, not turning, I get in line behind car #2.

The first car turns and car #2 moves up to the line and doesn't go. I look up and see the passenger in the side mirror motioning me to go ahead of them. I shake my head no. There is cross traffic and car #2 is a boxy Scion that would pretty much hide me from the cross traffic until I got into the intersection. The passenger motions again, and I say "Just go!". The driver then guns the car around the corner and honks her horn at me.

This type of thing has happened to me on several occasions. I know the drivers think they're being nice, but in reality they make things more dangerous for the cyclist. That driver now probably has a bad feeling about cyclists, since I didn't appreciate her being "nice".

Anyone else have this happen?

Yes, similar things have hapened to me, with motorists trying to be nice. Unfortunately sometimes they unintenionaly and innocently put you in more danger.

In the situation below, I was on bicycle, and the lady and elderly gentlemen were motorists.

I was at a stop sign, turning left from a minor road onto a major road (red line). In front of me was an elderly gentlemen (EG) going straight (green line). We both had stop signs. I was at the intersection first, hence I had the right of way over the EG when the major road was clear to proceed.

A lady, on the major road who did not have a stop sign(blue line) had stopped and waited just behind the crosswalk. She did not have an indicator light on, nor did she indicate to me to proceed (that I noticed anyway). Myself and the EG waited for her, I could see the EG starting to look left and right wondering what the hell was going on and why she was stopped. I was looking left and right and at the sidewalk wondering why she was stopped and just sitting there. I thought that perhaps she stopped for a pedestrian, but none were in sight. It was a stand-off.

So, I looked left and right, looked at the EG accross from me, signaled again my left turn, and made the turn and continued on.

In retrospect, I THINK she must have thought that she had a stop sign (she didn't). Plus, I was at the intersection before she got up to the sidewalk, hence IF there was a stop sign, I had the right of way. Plus, since I was on a bicycle (and to motorists we are considered out-of-control) she was nervous about me being there, with my arm out (indicating left turn).

She was obviously nervous and made an error in judgement. She had the right of way, but thought she did not.

To the OP, I do not think it fair to get the flack from certain posters here. You did not say in your post WHICH mirror you observed her motioning to you, but I assume that; since we tend to move right in the lane when taking a right turn and when going straight we tend to take the centre lane, then you were looking at her in her left (driver) side passenger mirror. To me, you were correctly positioned in the lane.

Your post gives an indication that you were a tad impatient with her, so perhaps you could have been a bit more cordial, but IMO you did nothing wrong (traffic wise). She WAS trying to be nice and got a tad ticked off that her courteousness was met with some agitation. I would suggest that a "thank you, but no, you have the right of way ma'am" or something similar, would have been better.

We all tend to get a tad impatient when driving (cycling), and do things we later regret. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", so to speak.

However, we should all try to be ambassadors of cycling and try to rise above the muck and give all non-cyclists a good experience with cyclists. This includes you, myself and everyone here.

I would rather discuss this situation and learn from it than throw petty insults.

Yelling at an elderly driver....an e-hug for you too.

Big meanie troll. Why can't you be a ray of sunshine like ILTB and myself?

When I get to an intersection with a turn lane, and no bike lane, I "make my own bike lane" by hugging the left edge of the turn lane. This makes it clear I am not turning, and if the turn lane is wide enough, turning traffic can pass on my right.

A different situation that drives me nuts is a nearby MUP that crosses a busy 5-lane street with no traffic lights. The center lane is unused at the point where the MUP crosses it, so I only need to look for a gap in traffic from one direction, make it to the (relatively) safe center lane, then wait for a gap in traffic from the other direction, then finish crossing.

So what happens when I am standing in the center lane, waiting for a gap? A clueless "considerate" driver in the left lane will come to a complete stop, motioning for me to cross, while traffic in the right lane is blowing past him at 45 mph. NO, YOU IDIOT, I AM NOT GOING TO CROSS AND BE ROADKILL!!! And of course once the fool has stopped, all of the traffic behind him changes lanes to get around, so he is funneling two lanes of traffic into one.

So I have learned that once I make it to the center, I must look the opposite direction, but periodically sneak quick peaks in the direction of the oncoming traffic until I see a gap I can use.

When I get a yielding gesture from another driver, I take it if I would have had the right of way without the gesture, and I acknowledge the gesture with a wave. If I wouldn't have had the right of way, I put my foot down and shake my head "no".

I don't trust any hand motions inside a car. On more than one occasion the driver was swatting insects, and very frequently they're talking on a cellphone via a hands-free earpiece. (Never mind the other end of the conversation can't see them talking with their hands.) In both situations, the driver is distracted. I have had cases of both situations where the driver looked directly at me, gestured in a way that I might have thought was yielding and waving me through, then immediately (without waiting for me to either go or shake my head "no") accelerated through the intersection.

To the OP, I do not think it fair to get the flack from certain posters here. You did not say in your post WHICH mirror you observed her motioning to you, but I assume that; since we tend to move right in the lane when taking a right turn and when going straight we tend to take the centre lane, then you were looking at her in her left (driver) side passenger mirror. To me, you were correctly positioned in the lane.

"We" may tend to do that. But the OP apparently did not do that. She (?) did indeed say which mirror - the passenger mirror, so it's not surprising we all assumed she was near the curb even though she was going straight. Read again: "I look up and see the passenger in the side mirror motioning me to go ahead of them."

"We" may tend to do that. But the OP apparently did not do that. She (?) did indeed say which mirror - the passenger mirror, so it's not surprising we all assumed she was near the curb even though she was going straight. Read again: "I look up and see the passenger in the side mirror motioning me to go ahead of them."

Ah yes, my apologies. Jeez, I thought I read that carefully. :o

See? We all make mistakes......even me (I'm as shocked as you are). :roflmao2:

So then the OP may have been a tad too far right then, if he (?) was going straight. So then perhaps this is one of those situations were minor error, misjudgement and misunderstanding on both sides all contributed to the situation.
1) The OP a tad too far right
2) the motorist trying to be considerate but yet not understanding that the cyclist may be in more danger if he moved forward to pass the motorist.

Still though, the sarcasm and insults that are starting to fly do not contribute helpfully to a discussion.

Neither does misreading a sentence...dang where's a neurolizer when you need one...

If the she was behind the car, the car should have went first though, regardless of where exactly she was positioned. Lateral positioning could have made her intentions more clear, but it's still a bonehead move by the motorist to wave her ahead. It's not like lane position is the same as signaling your turn.

Even if she was turning (as the people in the car may have thought), how does that benefit the cyclist?

If the she was behind the car, the car should have went first though, regardless of where exactly she was positioned.

Agreed.


Lateral positioning could have made her intentions more clear,

It is a practice taught in CAN-BIKE (Canadian) courses and I would imagine the Effective Cycling (USA) courses. It is one method used by cyclists to indicate their intentions to motorists. Doesn't always work of course.


but it's still a bonehead move by the motorist to wave her ahead.

Yes, but there were good intentions there, lets not forget that. Non-cyclists just do not know how to deal with cyclists.


It's not like lane position is the same as signaling your turn.

Errr, yes and no. Arm signaling the best way to indicate a turn of course, but lane positioning to the left of the lane states (at least I hope) "turning left". To the right indicates "turning right" and centre lane indicates "going through." Although it CAN be somewhat unclear if used alone, hence which is why we use arm signals. A methodology employing several communitive gestures is the best way to indicate your intentions, i.e. eye contact, arm signals, lane positioning, etc.


Even if she was turning (as the people in the car may have thought), how does that benefit the cyclist?

Sounds to me as if the motorist is a non-cyclist and nervous around cyclists. Perhaps the motorist didn't like having a cyclist behind and thought that the cyclist may pass as she was turning right. Remember, many motorists who are non-cyclists perceive us to be out of control, careless and ignore traffic rules. So just to try and put myself in the typical motorist thinking here:

"That cyclist is gonna pass me as I'm about to turn, I'll hit him/her, then of course it'll me my fault, I'd better let him/her go past me before I turn."

Of course we can all say that "well the cyclist was stopped BEHIND". Sure, but like I said, that's not the motorist (non-cyclist) perception and no motorist that I know of can read minds.

Its SoCal,most traffic messages are sent telepathic.
You must be out of sinc.

Its SoCal,most traffic messages are sent telepathic.
You must be out of sinc.

Never been in Southern Cali. Too hot.

Yes, this often happens to me. As a problem I rate it right up there with Dihydrogen Monoxide found in drinking water.

Wow. I get waved through a lot by drivers perpendicular to me, including when I have a stop sign and they are on a 4-lane highway with no sign or signal, but I've never been waved forward by the car in front of me before! That's a new one on me.

I agree that you were right, both on stopping in line behind them, and in refusing to be waved forward. The people in that car obviously had no idea what they were doing. They were probably just put out that you didn't seem to appreciate how nice they were being to you (in their opinion).

In some of those situations, when cars perpendicular to me are stopping, I sometimes do go ahead, because sometimes it's just easier for everyone that way, since you can't take the time to explain it to them right there in the middle of the situation. I try to give a shoulder shrug or something to indicate a kind of "if you insist" gesture, to make the point that they didn't really have to. But in your situation, no, I don't think I would have gone ahead. (Or if I had, I would have regretted it afterwards.)

they are just trying to be nice to us poor sad sacks who can't afford cars. now i think i'll continue surfing the web on my 800 dollar laptop with cable connection, or maybe i'll play some nintendo Wii on my 42 inch plasma or play one of my three electic guitars through my vintage marshall amp, then later i'll go out for a nice $20 dinner like i do at least twice a week.

I was at a stop sign, turning left from a minor road onto a major road (red line). In front of me was an elderly gentlemen (EG) going straight (green line). We both had stop signs. I was at the intersection first, hence I had the right of way over the EG when the major road was clear to proceed.

This is incorrect. Unless it is a four-way stop, the traffic going straight always has the right of way no matter who got to the intersection first. It is the same as if there were no stop sign, traffic going straight has right of way.

Something happened? I must have missed it.

Thank you for your contributions to this thread. You have added tremendous value. The depth of your knowledge, wit and wisdom is astounding. You must surely feel good about yourself.

Quoted by Digger: I was at a stop sign, turning left from a minor road onto a major road (red line). In front of me was an elderly gentlemen (EG) going straight (green line). We both had stop signs. I was at the intersection first, hence I had the right of way over the EG when the major road was clear to proceed.

This is incorrect. Unless it is a four-way stop, the traffic going straight always has the right of way no matter who got to the intersection first. It is the same as if there were no stop sign, traffic going straight has right of way.

I'm not so sure Crackerdog. Certainly if both vehicles arrive at the intersection at the same time, then yes, I agree, the vehicle going straight has the right of way.

But if one vehicle is there first, then wouldn't the vehicle first to arrive then have the right of way? In this case I was at the intersection first, so I had the right of way (?)

Of course, in the absence of any stop signal (sign), then oncoming traffic has the right of way and left turning vehicles must yield and proceed when clear.

Although it doesn't come right out and say what I said above in my 2nd paragraph, see page 44 in the link below. Wouldn't I be considered to already be in the intersection because I arrived first?
http://www.gov.ns.ca/snsmr/rmv/handbook/DH-Chapter2.pdf

I'm just interested to clear that up in my mind, I'm not trying to bust your chops.

I'm not so sure Crackerdog. Certainly if both vehicles arrive at the intersection at the same time, then yes, I agree, the vehicle going straight has the right of way.

But if one vehicle is there first, then wouldn't the vehicle first to arrive then have the right of way? In this case I was at the intersection first, so I had the right of way (?)

I don't think so and this is one of my pet peeves. If no other vehicles are around, and the car that wants to turn left gets there first, then they can go first infront of a car that is just coming to a stop that wants to go straight. But if both of you have to wait for some other cars to go by, then in my book this resets everything and once it is clear, the rule to apply is "straight vehicle goes first," and not who has been waiting the longest. It drives me crazy when people turn left in front of the car coming straight across instead of making their left turn behind them.

I don't think so and this is one of my pet peeves. If no other vehicles are around, and the car that wants to turn left gets there first, then they can go first infront of a car that is just coming to a stop that wants to go straight.

This is what I'm thinking.



But if both of you have to wait for some other cars to go by, then in my book this resets everything and once it is clear, the rule to apply is "straight vehicle goes first," and not who has been waiting the longest. It drives me crazy when people turn left in front of the car coming straight across instead of making their left turn behind them.

If I arrive first and turning left, then the opposite car arrives next, but is going straight, then we (definately) would BOTH have to wait until it is safe to proceed (if the major road does not have a stop sign as the case in the situation I had). This makes sense.

BUT once clear and if things "reset", like you said Pacificaslim, and the oncoming car now has the right of way, wouldn't this add an extra layer of complication and hence extra potential for error?

Hmmmm, I have a friend who works in the Nova Scotia Traffic and Safety Division. I'll call her and see if see knows, and if not, she can certainly find out.

I'm curious to know what others think.