Foo - Pick-up Artist Communities.

This is a question that I've been thinking about for a long time now.

I used to be more active in pick-up artist (PUA) communities in the past, and I was even close to saving money for one of their ridiculously expensive workshops. I have since removed myself from this crowd, but I always wondered if the workshops and associated materials were truly effective. I have two DVDs (one of which my friend gave to me, which I have given away to someone else), but I always felt that the "basic" material was simply a re-hashing of the fundamentals of social dynamics, which are sound but hardly worth the cost of entry. (Some workshops are near $4,000.)

Has anyone here tried it or still participates? What are your opinions?

Thanks!

huh?

I only pick up myself.

*sigh*

^^^

Yeah, tell me about it.

trying. too. hard.

my first thought was "people really go to these things? boy would I like to be a fly on the wall" truth is, there's a science in relating to people, and some need more guidance in that department than others- along with some self-confidence. Something kinda makes me ill about learning those things to be able to pick up women and have them sleep with you. :twitchy:

Since you asked for our opinion:

I feel that we have the most advanced, comfortable existence in the history of mankind, and yet we are wasting our collective time and resources on meaningless trivial pursuits that we have convinced ourselves are neccesary for happiness or advancement.

We are living in the lost generation.

The most simple pleasures in life, such as drinking water and meeting a girl have been reduced to crass marketing schemes and mass-produced, overpackaged nonsense. The tap is across the room, and yet we waste fuel to drive to the store to buy bottled water that came from a different (supposedly better) tap. We are already special and attractive in our own individual way, yet we waste precious time that we could be spending just living life engaging in seminars, discussions, and clubs designed to prey upon our lowered self esteem so that we can become hollowed versions of our selves in the hopes of attracting a mate. Not considering that what is attracting them (not to mention who you would be attracting) fall short of the blessed soul that you already posess.

We buy the latest gadget, enroll in the best schools, compete for the best jobs, buy all the fancy clothes, and otherwise do all the things that we are told to do my Madison Ave. in the hope that is we simply do everything right and follow instructions that we will be happier, healthier, and wiser.


But it never works out for some reason.

So we take pills to make us happier, change jobs, change wives, change locations, go back to school for another degree, buy more stuff, etc. in the hopes that our pitiful selves will get it right this time. Happy to just have another go at it. Never really once considering the source of all joy and misery...


...is looking back at you in the mirror the entire time wondering "what about me"?


Have faith in yourself.

Are all your limbs intact? If not, have you found a way to make it with what limbs you have? Do you have your basic needs met? If not, and you have found a way to access things you don't need (internet, cell phone, etc.), then could you redirect your energy to meet your basic needs?

One of those basic needs is companionship. But if we constantly overlook the values that will in turn make us happy then we won't recognize her (or him) when we see them. We will be too busy focusing on the next new shiny thing that "society" tells us is better than what we already know deep down inside our soul. But guess what? If society was so wise and resplendent, would we all be in the mess we are in today? Wars, poverty, credit collapse, job loss, dreams deffered...all in the pursuit of something more than what we have. Well, I'm telling you that what you have is greater than all the shiny things in the world. What you have is yourself. Love it. Nurture it. And it will take care of you in kind.

I pretty much agree, but don't you think that the whole concept of establishing the perfect social image is a recurring problem that will probably continue unabated? Just briefly thinking about your post a little more reminded me of, for example, how cigarettes were (and still are, though in a mitigated fashion) marketed as the 'cool' thing to do. What about women of the 1950s who just had to get the Bob or whatever hairstyle was en vogue for that week? Or the 60s and 70s era of corporate culture where you had to don a navy blue suit and black tie if you even wanted to think about thinking about moving up the ladder?

I think that 'being cool' has and always will be a marketable product, and will, consequently, always birth "grassroots" or "deviant" communities that refuse to follow that trend. Looking back at my experiences of being the "geek" of the class in my earlier years helped me see this and avoid "the other side" that I will probably always have a surface-level understanding of (i.e. enough to possibly do business with the masses, but not enough to envelop myself in their world and fully embrace both sides of the social spectrum).

I don't pick women up. I have had casual sex enough to know that it doesn't work for me. I am only interested in being myself and meeting women who appreciate me as I am. I have no intentions of learning how to "play the dating game". In fact I am repelled by the concept.

Perhaps this is why I feel quite out-of-place in bars unless I am working there. I don't see this as a flaw. I see it as a good thing. All the meaningful relationships that I have had began by a chance meeting and at no point was I ever trying to pick her up.

I guess I am just on the fringes of the fringe.

You're not (unless I am too).

Went out to a bar with my friend, and I really don't understand how men get so turned on by women heavily doused in makeup, who more often than not have a lot of problems and baggage along with them. I personally don't like going to bars unless there's an awesome band playing. In fact, I was perfectly fine with ordering a Sprite.

I don't pick women up either; it was never my thing, and having swam in the PUA pool for a little while re-confirmed this. However, I can see how that program can help the socially awkward break out of their shells and start making friends and meeting women. It's really easy for the naive to get sucked into the whole culture and possibly lose their own sense of personality, but if you have a good head on your shoulders, I think that won't be much of a problem.

However, I can see how that program can help the socially awkward break out of their shells and start making friends and meeting women. It's really easy for the naive to get sucked into the whole culture and possibly lose their own sense of personality, but if you have a good head on your shoulders, I think that won't be much of a problem.

If you are even considering this type of crap, you don't have a good head on your shoulders.


This is the rule.

^^^

I would agree with this, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think that it helps people who, like me, got a little lost somehow (a traumatic break-up, or some large negative change in one's life, for example) and need some help finding direction. Again, it's not the material that I endorse to people, but the fundamentals that they preach. Those fundamentals are not unique to the PUA community; if anything, they were borrowed by them to illustrate their philosophy.

In fact, I don't even promote those products. There's something about them that screams snake oil. Why does learning a little about a different approach to dating "require" a $2,000+ workshop, when it's really information that you can learn from a kind friend or lots of practice?

If anything, a big deal-breaker for me is that a lot of its members seem either completely sex-starved or extremely addicted to sex. If they rode bikes, they might be happier.

If you are even considering this type of crap, you don't have a good head on your shoulders.


This is the rule.


Are you talking about the workshops or just learning about pick-up techniques on your own? OK, paying $4,000 for this kind of workshop might indicate you have issues, and a lot of the culture behind the whole pick-up artist scene is gross, but I will note that some of the fundamentals preached by this set (I've done some investigation) sound similar to the suggestions in the dating thread. I'm thinking specifically of DannoXYZ's advice. A lot of it is common sense, but as the saying goes, common sense isn't all that common. Being something of an introvert, I'll admit that a few things I read on a pick-up website have made a difference -- the key is using the power for good, not evil :)

When I saw this thread title, I hoped against hope that it was about some kind of street/urban/whatever art trend called "pick-up art", and the communities that form around it. The reality is apparently much more twisted and kind of sick. http://www.bikeforums.net/mysmiliesvb/mysmilie_15.gif

When I saw this thread title, I hoped against hope that it was about some kind of street/urban/whatever art trend called "pick-up art", and the communities that form around it. The reality is apparently much more twisted and kind of sick. http://www.bikeforums.net/mysmiliesvb/mysmilie_15.gif

You must have missed the inscription at the gates of Foo...

...All hope abandon ye who enter here.

Such characters in colour dim I mark'd
Over a portal's lofty arch inscrib'd...

You must have missed the inscription at the gates of Foo...

...All hope abandon ye who enter here.

Such characters in colour dim I mark'd
Over a portal's lofty arch inscrib'd...

i, for one, saw, yet took no heed.

You must have missed the inscription at the gates of Foo...

...All hope abandon ye who enter here.

Such characters in colour dim I mark'd
Over a portal's lofty arch inscrib'd...I don't know if it would be possible for me to abandon any more hope. I think I'd have to start cutting out organs or cutting off limbs.

I don't know if it would be possible for me to abandon any more hope. I think I'd have to start cutting out organs or cutting off limbs.

if you had more faith you'd find ways to have more hope.

or was that the other way around?

Thanks for bringing up my lack-of-faith birth defect, jerko. :mad:

Here are some exampes:

http://www.vinylgraphics.net/images/customersupplied/amazonThumb.jpg

http://accuratecustompaint.com/images/index/pickup.jpg

http://accuratecustompaint.com/images/index/car.jpg

http://www.vissersrod.com/custom-paint-9.jpg
http://images.truckinweb.com/brandpages/toyota/0603tr_01_z+1994_custom_toyota_pickup+front_angle.jpg

I was thinking more along the lines of...

"That dress is very becoming on you. If i were that dress i'd be coming on you too..."

Here are some exampes:

[The funny]



:lol:

I am still confused. I thought this was about pick-pocketing.

I am still confused. I thought this was about pick-pocketing.

So, what's the difference between a pick pocket and a peeping tom?

So, not ever having heard of pick up communities before, I did a Google search. Is this the same thing as the seduction community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_community ?

yanno, that same $4000 would buy a lot of ...umm... 'company'

Are we talking about these guys?
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/pickupartist.jpg

My wife used to love that show.

yanno, that same $4000 would buy a lot of ...umm... 'company'

true that.

A friend of mine sent me a book called "Rules of The Game." I agree that it was mostly on the dynamics of social interaction in general. It's like some weird self help book.

Thanks for bringing up my lack-of-faith birth defect, jerko. :mad:

it's what i do

This is a question that I've been thinking about for a long time now.

I used to be more active in pick-up artist (PUA) communities in the past, and I was even close to saving money for one of their ridiculously expensive workshops. I have since removed myself from this crowd, but I always wondered if the workshops and associated materials were truly effective. I have two DVDs (one of which my friend gave to me, which I have given away to someone else), but I always felt that the "basic" material was simply a re-hashing of the fundamentals of social dynamics, which are sound but hardly worth the cost of entry. (Some workshops are near $4,000.)

Has anyone here tried it or still participates? What are your opinions?Don't waste your money on those workshops, they are just re-marketing available info that's free. The first question should be:

What results do you want to achieve in your life that you are not getting now?

A lot of people don't know what they want and end up trying to get a bunch of extra fluff that's not satisfying. It's kinda like a mid-life crisis where you go buy new hairpieces, a corvette, trophy wife, etc... but in the end, you're still not happy. That's because they haven't defined the end-goal first so they have no idea when or if they've achieved it.

So figure out what you want first, is it:

- a life-long companion, like a wife?
- great hot friends to party with?
- awesome sex whenever and wherever you want?

Because each one will require meeting a different type of person and will require a different approach and relationship pathway. Once you've figured out what you want, I'd recommend more of "doing" than "learning". That is, the value of all this is in getting your feet wet and "getting it" as a way of being, a part of you, rather than info in your head that you pull out when needed.

The hard part a lot of people don't get is that you must work on your character and values first. For example, my core values and character includes:

- I'm a worthwhile valuable person that everyone wants
- I'm a fun and enjoyable person to party with
- I do what I can to make people's lives better
- in every encountre, leave them better off afterwards than before

That's not something I pull out of a hat, like a pick-up line to be used when needed. That's who I am and what I stand for 100% of the time. From that viewpoint, everything else will be generated as needed for specific instances. You want to BE a person that's a great lifelong mate, a great person to party with, someone to hit the sack with whenever you want. THEN you'll attract people who are similar as well.

To work on your character, it's like everything else in life such as becoming a doctor, or attourney, or skilled craftman. It requires study and more importantly practice. That's what I mean by the "doing" of it earlier. Sitting in workshops and listening to things won't do sh|t for getting you results. It's the doing of it that creates results. Way back in my early high-school days, my friends and I would form informal clubs for getting chics. We'd watch each other at parties and give each other feedback. We'd wear pen-recorders and go over the conversations later and give pointers and revise the flowcharts. Later in college, between hitting up chics at parties and clubs, we'd watch all the other guys, pick out the ones that are successful and figure out what it was that worked for them.

The strategy, in many ways, is the opposite of the PUA techniques. They are like telemarketers hitting up large numbers with a pre-canned approach. For me, it's not about the numbers, but is about improving your hitting-percentage with each and every chic, by being observant, truly listening, and customizing your approach to be most effect for her. You want it to be about HER, this specific one, and you want to rock her world like no one else ever has. You have A LOT to give, figure out what it is you have that'll make a difference to her and make her life better. Be a sniper, one shot, one kill.

It all comes down to communications. We're always communicating about ourselves, our view, values and goals. Even before you open your mouth, you're communicating a tonne of info about yourself to the world at large in how you carry yourself, how you dress, walk, talk, etc. Be conscious of what you're broadcasting, fine-tune it to match the character you want that gets the results you want in life.

Good luck! :)

Dan,

I was actually waiting for your response on this, since you seem to at least have been exposed to the community. I came to a lot of those realizations after going through the material itself. I realized that it's really a matter of defining oneself, identifying and fixing flaws and showing it in the best light. I didn't want to have tons of sex (which seemed to be the goal of a lot of these products); I just wanted to meet someone who was closer to my ideals. The fundamentals of that program helped me identify exactly how to do that and the path that I needed to take to get there.

I really appreciate everyone's inputs. Again, I haven't considered buying into the PUA material for a long time now, but it's nice to have opinions from both sides of the pond. (It's actually kind of tough to find negative publication about the community.)

Are we talking about these guys?
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/pickupartist.jpg

My wife used to love that show.

It's kind of scary how some guys idolize Mystery (the dude with the hat).

So, not ever having heard of pick up communities before, I did a Google search. Is this the same thing as the seduction community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_community ?

Yes.

I was thinking more along the lines of...

"That dress is very becoming on you. If i were that dress i'd be coming on you too..."

Dude.

Dude.
Sorry, couldn't help it...

I'm a sucker for bad pick-up lines...