Tandem Cycling - Santana Team vs. Burley Duet

We are buying our first tandem. I have found 2 used ones – Burley Duet – completely stock – around 1993 vintage. It has Suntour components – front triple and 6 speed rear – bar end shifters. The second bike is a Santana Team – I would guess the vintage is late 80’s or early 90’s. It has down tube shifters. The components have been upgraded to Shimano 105 (front triple) and Ultegra (8 speed rear). Both bikes are CroMoly (around 44 #’s) and will fit us. We have not had the opportunity to ride them on the road (covered with snow around here) but have been on both on a trainer. The Burley is $550 and the Santana is $1000. I think both bikes would work for us as a first tandem, but was wondering if anyone had any opinions that would help me make the decision. Thanks.

For some relevant suggestions, see the thread on the other (overpriced) vintage Santana.
Not being a captain much but observing how much shifting we do the idea of either DT or
barcon shifters leaves me cold. I recall riding my 5spd Peugeot with groups in the '96 time
frame and finding I had lots of speed/cadence combos that were not comfortable. 5-6
speed bike riders compensate by larger changes in their cadence/torque compared with
8-9-10 spd riders with brifters because it is notably harder to shift. Singletons are one
thing 400# tandems another. But lots of current riders really like barcons. If you group
ride a lot on rollers barcons/DT shifters can be a thrill as you reach to downshift, try to keep
the bike from wobbling with one handed steering and hope you don't have to brake.
Rant mode off. For about the difference in price you could upgrade the Burley to 8-9
speed with a new rear wheel, cassette, R stoker crank, chain and inexpensive brifters and
shifters. Nashbar has 9-10spd house brand brifters for $120 right now. Biggest ? is rear triangle
width. From the other thread it is probably not worth doing. Depends on how much
you take a shine to tandem riding and the terrain you ride. FWIW the eccentric on our
Burley was problematic: loosened up and tightening the allen head screws eventually
bulged the BB shell. Somebody at Burley came up with a replacement that works as an
internal cam clamp. Your Burley may not have that problem.

Thanks for your comments. I have looked throughout this thread at all of the recent Santana and Burley comments. I just get more confused. I too remember the excitement of DT shifters back in my 10 speed days. We have been looking for months for a nice used tandem and these are the only 2 reasonably priced ones we have been able to come up with. Spending $2-3K is not an option. With the exception of adding a suspension seatpost, some pedals and tires, I didn't really plan to spend a lot of upgrade money on a 15 year old bike. We are hoping to get a couple of years out of it - then hopefully move into something nicer.

Wouldn't be a difficult decision for me.

When I had my bike shop I used to keep 3 tandems in stock: A Univega or KHS, a Burley, and a Santana. If you were to ride them one immediately after the other you'd notice a LOT of difference in lateral frame stiffness. The Univega actually felt scary right after getting off of the Santana.

I'd get the better frame. In my opinion, that's the Santana. You'll be getting better components too. Upgrading the down tube shifters, if you decide that you don't like them, isn't a huge deal.

Incidentally, I'm going to disagree with the other poster's comments about how scary bar cons are to use. I've always maintained contact with the handlebar and shifted bar cons with just my pinky fingers. It's never felt the slightest bit shaky or insecure.

Are they both = in mechanical shape? How about rust? Have they both been stored inside?
If so I vote for the Burley Duet. You can do a lot of work and upgrades seats, tires, shifters, and such to your tandem for $450.00 to make it nice.

Ciao,
o^^o

Both bikes are in great condition, considering their age. No rust, very few chips. Both appear to have been stored inside their entire life. My LBS has both of them and part of the deal will be a total tune-up, true rims, etc. The Santana certainly has better components. but without index shifting, I'm not sure if that is as big of a deal. I would certainly agree that I believe the Santana has the better frame, but not having ridden either on the road, makes it difficult to judge. My LBS will give us until the end of April to bring either back for a refund, if we're not happy. Couldn't really ask for anything more.

Thanks again for all of your comments - I need to make the decision early next week.

I have a Burley Duet of similar vintage (it's that bright blue color...), and it's been rock-solid. we've gotten her up to 48mph, and it is really stable. use the 450 to register for a really fun tour, like PALM or GOBA. (i see you are michiganders). As for the barcons, IMHO they are not a safety issue, but it takes a couple of miles for me to get uysed to them. my single bike has campy brifters, and my mtn bike has shimano XT shifters. theya ll work fine, it's just getting used to each one after a spell on the other bike.

thanks - sounds like the same bike - bright blue color. I appreciate the comments on the bar end shifters - my road bike also has campy brifters and my mountain bike uses the shimano trigger shifters.

can you give me a few more details on the tours you mentioned? not sure what you were suggesting on how to register - thanks.

i am going back next week to look each one over again - we are leaning towards the Burley from a cost point and still giving us a decent bike to get into tandeming.

The Duet price is the better deal. With the difference in the $$, you can spend a few $$ to replace what does not suit you.
As for barcon shifters: had Dura Ace STI on our present tandem for 3,000 miles; got rid of it and replaced it with 9 speed barcons. More precise, less hassle/adjusting/longevity.
Suntour components are very reliable and as good as Shim 105.
Have ridden 200,000+ miles with barcons on tandems . . . not a problem.
That's a great offer from your bikeshop . . . if you don't like it, bring it back.
PALM is Pedal Across Lower Michigan; GOBA is a ride in Ohio. Google it for more info.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem (former Michiganders)

PALM limits ridership, so it's hard to get into. GOBA does not. both rides are very fun. GOBA is in northern ohio this year, i'll be riding it with my 10yr old on the back. I'm pretty sure the crank shorteners can come off, she's grown like a weed this winter!
There are great rides around you on the left coast, too. we rode a tour around muskegon, i think their club is called COAST. Also, the apple cider century south of you is very fun.
Buy the Burley, and we'll see you on the road!

Interesting that both GOBA and PALM are the same week. I have ridden the apple cider on the tandem with my son...It is a great ride. The bike store in Holland (if that is who you are working with) seems to be great. I also looked at a bike they had before buying one from a guy in Holland off Craigslist. I picked up a used 2004 Burley for $1000.00 so there are deals out there if you are patient. I had put a wanted to buy add on craigslist for a used tandem. I had maybe a dozen people respond with bikes...including the one i purchased.

We had a Burley Duet for 14 years. It's a solid entry level tandem.

At $500 in good shape its an excellent deal.

If you think you might end with a more expensive tandem down the road after you've ahd a chance to try it out, the Burley at $550 ( which you'll likely get almost all back when you sell it) would be a good move.

If you think you're going to ride the bike forever, I'd consider the Santana, and upgrade the components as parts wear out.

Thanks again to all who have responded. Sounds like there are some nice rides (and organizations) out there. I have been a runner for many years and have decided that the wear and tear of running is finally taking its toll. We have ridden at least 10 West MI MS150's and the Holland 100 - always on our single road bikes. This year, with the purchase of the tandem, we are really going to concentrate on riding together on a regular basis and taking some new tours.

I'm sure, if we really get into this (which I am sure we will), we will probably upgrade in a few years, but starting with something in the a lot <$3000 range feel like the right thing to do. I'll let you all know what we decide.

Welcome to the world of tandeming. I hope to see you, with which ever tandem you get, on this year's West Michigan MS 150. My wife and I have been on the steering committee of this event for the last 11 years. We have also served as "tour leaders" most of those years. The MUTS (Michigan United Tandem Society) provide most of the tour leaders. Most of the MUTS rides are based in this part of the state and would be a great introduction to tandem riding. Membership is only $10 per year.

If you see our titanium Santana, and our tour leader tags, say "hello."

Rick

Barcons are widely used in the classique touring community, and it's not so tough to shift with your fingertips.
You can probably trade the 6-speed freewheel for a 7-speed, at least, to give a bit more range on the Burley.

We own a 90's Duet and a 05 Soverign and 04 Cabrio. The Duet is a very nice bike for the price. We had to replace the wheels when they started braking spokes. We also cold set the rear spacing to accept 145/9 speed wheel. The drop bar shifters are only OK if you are used to STI.