Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - The Bike Computer on iPhone 3G

I work for GlobalMotion Media, Inc, a Palo Alto startup dedicated to GPS-powered travel blogging, or in somewhat more widely understood terms, telling stories with maps. Our main website, www.everytrail.com, and our mobile phone apps are free, so having declared myself an employee and not offering anything for sale, I hope I am living within the letter and the spirit of BikeForum's rules and regulations.

About 5 weeks ago, we introduced a new cyclocomputer for the iPhone 3G. Unlike most bike computers, this one is a gps-logger, so through the cellular or WiFi networks, your route is uploaded to and can be shared from our website, www.everytrail.com. The computer itself is a simple single screen design, showing key statistics in large, easy to read font. Like any consumer device, it won't satisfy everyone. We designed it to be beautiful, easy to use, to have the bare minimum of functionality, to get people interested in the idea and to solicit user feedback about the requirements for a more fully featured version.

EveryTrail is a travel blogging site, offering the world's best integration of maps, photos and stories, for example http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=74576 This phone application doesn't take advantage of the iPhone's camera, but our site allows you to upload other photographs and it automatically places them along the track where you've taken them; the geotagging is done by us on the site, not by you with your gear. If you want this feature integrated into the phone, then for now you'll have to use another iPhone app, called EveryTrail; ET will soon be available for Android and Blackberry, too.

We look forward to your feedback about this.

Dan

Dropping my iPhone while cranking along at 18 mph could
put a serious hole in my budget...

Jerry

Please excuse my ignorance in regards to electronics. I have a i-phone more than a year old that runs system 2.2. Am i a G3? Will it work?

if your iphone is more than about 6 months old it is not a 3G model. But many apps will run on either.

I used this on a ride today, pulling it out periodically to compare w/my Polar CS200. My max speed was off 5 MPH than the polar but the distance seemed nearly spot on. Couldn't tell you actual speed as my phone was in my saddle bag. :)

You might want to adapt VeloAce software for it.
http://www.engbedded.com/veloace
It's open source for the Palm PDA so you may be able to port it to the iphone. I use an old Palm IIIx with it. I use a sync cable with a DB-9 connector with an old bike computer sensor connected to pins 3 and 8. There is also a simple IrDA circuit that can be built making it a wireless setup or a standard Bluetooth interface circuit available from Mouser.com should also work with a few more lines of programming. Cadance as well as Heart rate should be doable via bluetooth as well. Here is a photo of my old Palm, sync cable, and sensor cable I use as a bike computer.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r154/n4zou/bike/dsc00152.jpg

Interesting apps.

For me, though, I can't say that they'd work. I usually ride with full-finger gloves (it's either cold enough that I need the insulation, or it's hot enough and even my fingers get sweaty), and the iPhone's screen only responds to flesh-on-glass contact. I'd also have to get the iPhone mounted somehow, and that'll take up a lot of bar space; maybe there's a stem mount that could work. Keeping it in my pocket like I usually do would defeat the purpose of a computer/speedometer since I wouldn't be able to see it.

But what they hey, you've released them for free, so I'll give 'em a shot.

I would keep my phone in my pocket the whole time and work off the cyclometer I have on my bike, so I would get no use out of the cyclometer features. However, I think uploading the route afterward could make it worth a download.

Hi all

I had a go with it but it's metric only so utterly useless when you are 10 miles away from your target going at 50 KMPH i want to pedal not do mental arithmetic. Imperial units are a must for the UK and of course US.


Jon

how come a US company does KMs?

I used this on a ride today, pulling it out periodically to compare w/my Polar CS200. My max speed was off 5 MPH than the polar but the distance seemed nearly spot on. Couldn't tell you actual speed as my phone was in my saddle bag. :)

The speed we post comes directly from the iPhone's "location manager". I'm surprised that it's 5mph off, but an on-wheel magnetic speedometer pickup samples at 5 samples/sec at 30 mph, whereas the GPS is sampling at less than 1 sample/sec. So, you're going to get much better "responsiveness" from the on-wheel system.

There are alternatives, such as computing the speed from "distance over time". Noise in the data stream from the GPS can create excessively high, false maximum speeds. We elected not to use that method for that reason. If user feedback is consistent on this matter, we'll look into it again.

Thanks for your comment.

Dan

Interesting apps.

For me, though, I can't say that they'd work. I usually ride with full-finger gloves (it's either cold enough that I need the insulation, or it's hot enough and even my fingers get sweaty), and the iPhone's screen only responds to flesh-on-glass contact. I'd also have to get the iPhone mounted somehow, and that'll take up a lot of bar space; maybe there's a stem mount that could work. Keeping it in my pocket like I usually do would defeat the purpose of a computer/speedometer since I wouldn't be able to see it.

But what they hey, you've released them for free, so I'll give 'em a shot.

I can't argue with your observations. This device is not for everyone. We do think a lot of our users will be people who cycle but who are not cycling enthusiasts. They may be happy to put it in their pocket. Also, because this is in landscape, it is particularly well suited to handlebar mount. We have a good design, but haven't yet put that into manufacture.

I would keep my phone in my pocket the whole time and work off the cyclometer I have on my bike, so I would get no use out of the cyclometer features. However, I think uploading the route afterward could make it worth a download.

We hope you will like the route upload. Our site, www.everytrail.com, is the leading online community of its kind. Over 41,000 trips have been created, and our growth is at an all time time. We have unique photo geotagging capability, so your digital photos (from a phone or other camera) will be automatically attached to the spot on the map where they were taken. We didn't enable the iPhone camera in this application because we wanted the simplest possible configuration. We'll probably put it in later, but we're waiting for Apple to make some fixes to the OS. If you do need the camera for this purpose, try our other application, EveryTrail, also free.

Hi all

I had a go with it but it's metric only so utterly useless when you are 10 miles away from your target going at 50 KMPH i want to pedal not do mental arithmetic. Imperial units are a must for the UK and of course US.


Jon

how come a US company does KMs?

Jon, I'm sorry you're disappointed, but thanks for the feedback. We chose to let the iPhone do a conversion (from m/sec from the GPS unit) based on the carrier's units. In your case, they settled on metric. For me here in the US, I'm in English. For my friends in Amsterdam, I know they're getting metric. We didn't think about what might happen in England. In subsequent releases, we'll consider letting the user select units and override the carrier. Thanks, Dan

Is this only for the iPhone with GPS? How well --if at all-- will it run on the Touch?

I don't have an iPhone 3g (YET) but in concept this is a pretty cool app. I'll definitely flag this for later use. Oh, and I have to agree this screams for a handlebar mount... actually I was thinking a stem or top-tube mount would be best, unless said mount sticks 'out' from the handlebars to keep from infringing too much on available hand placements.

Is this only for the iPhone with GPS? How well --if at all-- will it run on the Touch?

Since it needs GPS (and at least some cell tower triangulation, which the 3G iPhone uses alongside its GPS), then no, it won't work on an iPod Touch.

Tried using this tonight, but it wouldn't connect with the GPS satellites, so I switched to iMapMyRide, which connected nearly instantly.

Could you tell me whether you tried once, or multiple times, with The Bike Computer?

Thanks,
Dan

I've had numerous opportunities to use some of the applications for the latest iPhone 3g, in particular the cycling/mapping computers and I have to say that they are very disappointing in most cases.
I believe that the problem is not necessarily with the computer software but the iPhone itself. Since the GPS on iPhone is not that great the quality of "GPS" signal is spotty at best, and if one is moving fast enough it can be noticed. Namely, the triangulation that iPhone uses is not the best and tracking applications tend to fail miserably. Recently, one of the apps I was using while cycling to work indicated my maximum speed of 703mph. Impressive, eh:)?

Stric,

I hope you did not get 703mph with our device, but I will be interested to know if you did. I believe I can explain why you got such a number with some other devices. If would be happy to have a private conversation with you about that if you would contact me at dan AT globalmotion DOT com.

Thanks,
Dan

Dear Monogodo,

I won't speculate on what is happening with iMapMyRide, but I can tell you something about the choices made in The Bike Computer app.

The phone gives a location update immediately, the last known location, maybe one from several minutes earlier. We choose to ignore it until we get a fresh update with known time. Depending on signal strength, that fresh update might be a long time coming. In fact, the time to a next update is dependent not just on signal strength, but also on positional accuracy thresholds set by the developer. Another developer may use a looser threshold, and therefore get a "lock" sooner than we do. We've decided to favor positional accuracy over "time to lock". We would appreciate your input on this.

Thanks,
Dan

Could you tell me whether you tried once, or multiple times, with The Bike Computer?

Thanks,
Dan


Dear Monogodo,

I won't speculate on what is happening with iMapMyRide, but I can tell you something about the choices made in The Bike Computer app.

The phone gives a location update immediately, the last known location, maybe one from several minutes earlier. We choose to ignore it until we get a fresh update with known time. Depending on signal strength, that fresh update might be a long time coming. In fact, the time to a next update is dependent not just on signal strength, but also on positional accuracy thresholds set by the developer. Another developer may use a looser threshold, and therefore get a "lock" sooner than we do. We've decided to favor positional accuracy over "time to lock". We would appreciate your input on this.

Thanks,
Dan1. I haven't given up on The Bike Computer app just yet. Just because I couldn't get it to work that once isn't reason enough for me to delete it.

2. I live in Downtown Dallas, in a 33-story building. There are other tall buildings in the area. There is, however, a small park just outside my building. Last night I went down to ride, and went into the park where I had fairly clear line of sight to the sky. I powered up The Bike Computer and waited for the Finding Location notification to finish finding my location. I waited a couple minutes & gave up. When I switched to iMapMyRide, it found my location with a good quality signal within 30-45 seconds.

3. I just now powered it up (so that I could tell you the exact message I was getting), and it did find a signal. This is odd because I work in the basement of a building. It keeps alternating between Tracking, Poor Signal, and Finding Location. I clicked Start, and the stopwatch started, then it said I was going 24mph, and that I'd gone 0.1 miles. This is odd because I'm not moving (although I was waving the phone back & forth a little bit, but surely not at 24mph). I'll give it another shot the next time I ride.

Thanks for putting this out there for us! I love the idea, it would simplify the "stuff" we have to deal with when riding.

However, fwiw, I used the mapmyride application recently and was astounded at how fast the battery was chewed up. After about two hours of use just tracking a 20 mile climbing ride, it was almost entirely drained. My rides typically last at least two hours, often more, and a functioning bike computer has to last longer than two hours.

I'm downloading this one, and hope to see an improvement in this area. It should be interesting!

Thanks for putting this out there for us! I love the idea, it would simplify the "stuff" we have to deal with when riding.

However, fwiw, I used the mapmyride application recently and was astounded at how fast the battery was chewed up. After about two hours of use just tracking a 20 mile climbing ride, it was almost entirely drained. My rides typically last at least two hours, often more, and a functioning bike computer has to last longer than two hours.

I'm downloading this one, and hope to see an improvement in this area. It should be interesting!

Yeah, I have also noticed that battery life suffers when running iMapMyRide. I think it's more a function of the GPS than the software itself. I also make sure to turn off WiFi and to have a full charge before I head out, and I don't use the iPod feature.

FWIW, I just noticed that Marware has a handlebar mount for the iPhone while it's clipped into their Sidewinder case. Haven't seen it in person, though, but I think it'll rotate to landscape view.

http://www.marware.com/Bundles/biker?utm_source=Clean+Marware+Customers&utm_campaign=a6d17d4ec1-Marware_Bundles_Jan_14_20081_14_2009&utm_medium=email

http://www.marware.com/PRODUCTS/Case-Accessories/Bike-Holder

FWIW, I just noticed that Marware has a handlebar mount for the iPhone while it's clipped into their Sidewinder case. Haven't seen it in person, though, but I think it'll rotate to landscape view.

http://www.marware.com/Bundles/biker?utm_source=Clean+Marware+Customers&utm_campaign=a6d17d4ec1-Marware_Bundles_Jan_14_20081_14_2009&utm_medium=email

http://www.marware.com/PRODUCTS/Case-Accessories/Bike-Holder

Cool, but I have to say I'd feel better if the case was more like the Defender Series (http://www.otterbox.com/iphone-cases/iphone-3g-defender-case/) from Otterbox... or better yet, the Armor but they appeared to have discontinued that for the iPhone line...

I've used your app on a few rides. I think it's well written and designed. The few negatives I found:

1. The speed is typically off. Not sure there is much you can do about it, as you mention above. I have a small bike computer, and the GPS lags and spikes a few mph in either direction all the time.

2. There is no pause feature. When I ride, I'll often stop for a coffee, water, or bio break and I have to either keep recording, save/upload my ride or exit. I'd much rather just pause, while I run in and then start again, so I can get a full capture of my trip.

3. Once, I started out and while it was locating the sat, I didn't want to wait, and didn't care if I lost the first few hundred feet, so I put it in my pocket and figured that it would locate and start when ready. Even though I had hit the start button, it never ended up recording. Not sure if it was a bug or never found the sat and didn't retry, etc..

Beyond that, because of battery issues inherrent in the phone and because I need it for safety and don't want to have a dead phone, I've decided to get a Garmin 705 for this type of functionality. I think it's a great idea and I applaud your efforts. For casual use, I think it's a great app.

I was able to get it to work on my ride tonight. I had 3 legs of the ride. On the first leg (http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=144550), the tracking was way off. The software thought I rode 2.9 miles, but it maps out to 2.4. Looking at the route on the map, It thinks I started a block from where I actually did, and it seems to think I have the ability to ride through buildings.

On the second leg (http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=144614), it was a bit better, but not by much. The only part of the ride that it screwed up was when we turned left while riding downtown. I'm sure it was because of tall buildings in the area blocking the signal. The software said I rode 4.2 miles, but it maps out to 3.8.

The third leg (http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=144688), it was almost dead-on. It read 5.9, it maps to 5.7. Again, a couple hiccups when I was amongst tall buildings.

I rode with it in my pocket, so I can't attest to the screen functionality. It seemed to do better than iMapMyRide, in my experience. There was a bit of a delay waiting for it to acquire a satellite, but it wasn't too bad. I'll look into getting a handlebar mount, and keep trying it.

iPhones are funny. Last week our team went out for lunch and carried several phones running our application. Each took a different amount of time to lock to a satellite. Some were quick and some were annoyingly slow. I can only imagine that it's the vagaries of the hardware.


Also, these devices are never going to be as precise as your wheel mounted speedometer and odometer. Those devices sample at higher rates and have better accuracy with each sampled measurement.

Still, these phones are great for what the new things they can do, not what they can do almost as well as the alternatives. For instance, the loading to a website, the inclusion of photographs, the sharing, etc.

Our other app, EveryTrail, in the Travel Section, has just undergone a major overhaul, and is currently under review at Apple. Please have a look.

Thanks,
Dan

add a heart rate monitor and garmin705 will be overpriced and useless. now if you could add a powertap function to the iphone

The Weavers? You mean Pete Seeger and Ronnie Gilbert? Anyway, HRM is only a heartbeat away. But sooner will be the camera functionality. - Thanks, Dan

The Weavers? You mean Pete Seeger and Ronnie Gilbert? Anyway, HRM is only a heartbeat away. But sooner will be the camera functionality. - Thanks, Dan

I presume you're talking about iPhone 3.0 and the potential for software / docking connector interfaces? Aka, "ANT + Here we come?"

Well, by the time we get around to it, iPhone 3.0 will be there for the user, but no, we don't need it to enable the camera in landscape mode.

hey Dan, does your app work on the original iPhone? Thanks

HI deburn,

If you mean the iPhone without GPS, I am sorry, the answer is no.

Thank you,
Dan

Dan-

Do you have an app that works on a GPS enabled Windows OS phone? I have an AT&T Tilt I'd love to try this on.

Alex

It's a great idea but I see a few problems:

1. The battery life

With an iPhone runnning this application and using GPS, there's no way I can do a 3+ hour ride. The battery will die before that.

2. Single-application OS

If I get a call or a text message or some other alert, it will quit your application. I'll then have to cancel that other stuff and restart your application and then I'll have two different tracks.

3. Size of iPhone

It's HUGE compared to any existing GPS/Power-meter computer.

4. Safety/Integrity of iPhone

Given the bumps and shaking that takes place on a bike I'm not convinced that an iPhone will be able to take it without issue (I could be wrong on this).


I know that everyone wants to get all their technology needs into one device, but for now I'm not sure that there's really a device that fulfills that. Perhaps when flexible electronic ink displays become widely used and advanced enough for video display.

1. Battery life

Yeah, it'll suck. For short rides, maybe it'll be okay, but I wouldn't use it for a significant trek.

2. Single-app OS

Incoming calls will interrupt it, probably; texts won't, though, because they only pop up a notification. But, that also assumes that you're not going to answer them.

3. Size

Yup, it's big. There are some mounts for it, though, and they should work fine.

4. Safety/integrity (shock & jostle resistance)

It's a solid-state device with no moving parts. Shaking it won't hurt it.

Hey, thanks ... whoever ... for ressurrecting this post. I didn't even know there was a post on this app. Dan/mlvlvr, VERY cool that your on here taking feedback from users. If more SW developers did this ... well, we'd have better software!

I've ben using BikeComputer for a couple months now. I've noticed that even though instantaneous speed may be innaccurate sometimes, once my ride is uploaded and I see it on EveryTrail, all looks to be very accurate. Mapping of the route seems very accurate too.

BIG problem in my opinion is that other iPhone functions stop the mapping. it's VERY frustrating when I'm doing a new ride and I really want to get it mapped out, then I find out the app stopped somewhere along the line. Doesn't even have to be an incoming call, sometimes the app seems to stop recording for no discernable reason. Does it stop recording when the phone automatically goes into standby mode? If so, thats a problem. If there's ANY way to fake iPhone multitasking with this app it would be a huge improvement. I'm no software weenie, but isn't there some way that this app can come back to life after an interruption and continue recording? If not, then I'm afraid this app is very limited.

Other whining: quicker tracking pick-up on start up would be great. I understand you're limited by the iPhone guts, but for some reason the iPhone's own tracking on its Maps program picks up position much faster, and some other 3rd party apps do as well, so there's got to be some kind of variable there you can take advantage of. Also, like you said the ability to snap pics with the phone and have them automatically geotagged and uploadedwould be way cool.

But ... I still like the idea behind the app. Keeping it real simple and usable is a good call.

Looking forward to updates!

BIG problem in my opinion is that other iPhone functions stop the mapping. it's VERY frustrating when I'm doing a new ride and I really want to get it mapped out, then I find out the app stopped somewhere along the line.

Looking forward to updates!

the root cause of lots of problems with iPhone 3G right now is OS 3.0 and wifi/gps/connectivity issues. I can't wait for OS 3.1 which will fix a host of problems (and probably create more... :notamused:) I was really hoping it would come out today but it looks like 7/29 is the next update on calendar. The updates usually are spread out weekly but this one is coming in a bit earlier. Come on Apple get this update done. There are other applications having similar issues and they are waiting in the wings with their updates dependent upon iPhone 3.1 coming out sooner than later.