Road Cycling - custom made frames

how many people own a custom frame?
Have you thought about it?
do you consider buying a frame set (Colnago,Serotta,Gios etc) having a "custom" bike?
what is your dream bike?
how many bikes have you owned?
would you buy a custom frame from a local builder?
does your favorite shop deal in custom frames?

If you want a perfect fit, you need a custom frame. I think there is a lot more pride in a bike that you personally picked all the components and watched it come together...obviously a lot more money too, but you get what you pay for.

I own an Assenmacher custom frame. I had it made for me in 1976. It's a great bike, even today. I had it made to be a real Crit racer; short wheelbase, steep angles, high bottom bracket. It still climbs better than any other bike I've ever owned.I've crashed it a few times and it's been completely repainted 3 times.

I do NOT consider a stock frameset e.g. Colnago, Cinelli, Lemond, etc. with components added to be a custom bike.

I had my bike made primarily because of cosmetics. I wanted certain lugs, specific paint, hand striping and some other goodies. Cut out bottom brackets were the rage back then. I also specified what kind of dropouts I wanted. Matt Assenmacher did a great job on the frame & paint. There was nothing I didn't like about it.I use it as my winter and wind trainer bike now.

IMHO, there is very little reason to buy a custom frameset, unless you're really an unusual size, E.G. 6'6" or taller or if you're very short. The stock frames are really very good, assuming you choose a reputable manufacturer.

Do I regret buying the Assenmacher. Nah! I just don't thin I'd do it again, knowing what I do now.

BTW, if you're interested, Matt Assenmacher still builds the occassional frame. He's located in Scwartz Creek, Mi.

I own an Assenmacher custom frame. I had it made for me in 1976. It's a great bike, even today. I had it made to be a real Crit racer; short wheelbase, steep angles, high bottom bracket. It still climbs better than any other bike I've ever owned.I've crashed it a few times and it's been completely repainted 3 times.

I do NOT consider a stock frameset e.g. Colnago, Cinelli, Lemond, etc. with components added to be a custom bike.

I had my bike made primarily because of cosmetics. I wanted certain lugs, specific paint, hand striping and some other goodies. Cut out bottom brackets were the rage back then. I also specified what kind of dropouts I wanted. Matt Assenmacher did a great job on the frame & paint. There was nothing I didn't like about it.I use it as my winter and wind trainer bike now.

IMHO, there is very little reason to buy a custom frameset, unless you're really an unusual size, E.G. 6'6" or taller or if you're very short. The stock frames are really very good, assuming you choose a reputable manufacturer.

Do I regret buying the Assenmacher. Nah! I just don't thin I'd do it again, knowing what I do now.

BTW, if you're interested, Matt Assenmacher still builds the occassional frame. He's located in Scwartz Creek, Mi.

interesting...I have 3 road bikes, one track and one tandem. none are custom built for me, but they all fit great. I'm 5'8" and ride a 53 to 55 cm frame. I've found that the right stem and seatpost can go a long way to setting up the right fit. But I've ridden some bikes with a long toptube that just will not work for me.

I have a Serotta custom. I am a very difficult fit and had to go this route to be comfortable. I am so glad I did. Between my LBS and the Serotta company they really took care of me. I had paid for an 'Atlanta', one of there less expensive frames a couple of years back. Ben Serotta called back the LBS later on and told them that the top tube would have to be stretched longer than they could make it structurely sound for what I needed. The LBS knew I had went through a lot to finally get my bike and that I was stretching my bank book at the time. It pays to have a LBS with good connections as Ben Serotta said that they were experimenting with new frames and would see what they could do for me at no additional charge. They also knew I was pretty strong and would be sprinting a lot with this bike. They ended up making a hybrid prototype of the Colorado III with a top tube that looks like the grip end of a softball bat. It is a unique frame that is my pride and joy and remains my only bike. My dream bike would be an Ottrott, but I am thinking of getting a track bike next if I can make it up to T-town enough. One thing is for sure. That LBS and the Serotta company earned my life long support.

how many people own a custom frame?
Have you thought about it?
do you consider buying a frame set (Colnago,Serotta,Gios etc) having a "custom" bike?
what is your dream bike?
how many bikes have you owned?
would you buy a custom frame from a local builder?
does your favorite shop deal in custom frames?
I have ordered (yet to receive) a custom bike from Albert Eisentraut and I should have it in a couple of months.. Eisentraut is from the area, and I got an excellent and attentive fitting. I had the opportunity to pick a couple of lugs and fork crown, color, and will personalize the bike with my initials.

This is my third bike and probably not my last. I wanted to have a custom steel bike which will be my "special" bike. I will probably probably upgrade my other bike to a new one in a couple of years as technology advances, but the Eisentraut will be my classic/steel bike forever.

I am not sure if Serotta is a custom bike. It is in a way cause it is made to your size, and you can choose paint schemes. But I don't think you can choose fancy lugs, fork crowns, cable routing, and other personal touches that make the bike YOUR bike..

I have two custom- had them fitted for the components I had my eye on. They feel like butter when I ride them, and I'm happy to say I'm satisfied with paying the extra. I think it's satisfying to see your own bike come together, and I would definitely consider getting a custom made bike over a stock bike anyday.

Koffee

I have 2. One was made for me by a local, but very good frame builder.

The most recent one I made for me (see pic below).. I did the frame design, and had my people do the welding(I would have did it all if I had the time;))

My touring frame is Bob Jackson semi-custom. Its a stock design with added braze-ons, and my choice of paintwork and build-kit.
Local builders can often be good value, but there can be a difference between a great torch-meister and someone who understands bike fit, esp for big/small/unusually sized people.

Not everyone needs a custom frame. There are preference issues and fit issues that can be addressed with a custom frame but if you fit a stock frame that you like, there is no reason to go custom unless you have other reasons besides that- like exclusivity, builder, unique ride/handling requirements, paintjobs, etc.

I have ordered (yet to receive) a custom bike from Albert Eisentraut and I should have it in a couple of months.. Eisentraut is from the area, and I got an excellent and attentive fitting. I had the opportunity to pick a couple of lugs and fork crown, color, and will personalize the bike with my initials.

This is my third bike and probably not my last. I wanted to have a custom steel bike which will be my "special" bike. I will probably probably upgrade my other bike to a new one in a couple of years as technology advances, but the Eisentraut will be my classic/steel bike forever.

I am not sure if Serotta is a custom bike. It is in a way cause it is made to your size, and you can choose paint schemes. But I don't think you can choose fancy lugs, fork crowns, cable routing, and other personal touches that make the bike YOUR bike..

You can buy any frame (including Serottas) and add the components you want for a so called personal touch. What makes any bike custom is the fit.

Not everyone needs a custom frame. There are preference issues and fit issues that can be addressed with a custom frame but if you fit a stock frame that you like, there is no reason to go custom unless you have other reasons besides that- like exclusivity, builder, unique ride/handling requirements, paintjobs, etc.

Agree. I ordered a frame from our local builder, but it's a stock-geometry model. I knew what dimensions I was looking for, and their standard dimensions hit them exactly.

Actually, being able to choose the components and paint job was a big thing with me...I really don't like bikes covered with decals and graphics. Also, I like the idea of supporting a local builder.

You can buy any frame (including Serottas) and add the components you want for a so called personal touch. What makes any bike custom is the fit.

You can buy new lugs and replace them on a serotta? change your cable rounting (like run them in the tubes)? change the fork crown?

Cool! I didnt know that...

You can buy new lugs and replace them on a serotta? change your cable rounting (like run them in the tubes)? change the fork crown?

Cool! I didnt know that...

stating that Serotta is not custom is just ignorant. I would put a Serotta fit up against anything on the market.

stating that Serotta is not custom is just ignorant. I would put a Serotta fit up against anything on the market.

here is what I said.. Read it again..


---<snip>---
I am not sure if Serotta is a custom bike. It is in a way cause it is made to your size, and you can choose paint schemes. But I don't think you can choose fancy lugs, fork crowns, cable routing, and other personal touches that make the bike YOUR bike..

I actually decided on a Serotta after looking at other major custom builder. I have changed my mind and gone with an Eisentraut because I could actually meet with the man, spend time with him, and have him build me a bike that no one else has, with every minute option done to my specs.. So, yes, Serotta is generally considered a custom bike manufacturer, but it is not the same as a small local builder..

I read it just fine. I realize that you are excited about being able to participate in important details such as choosing a lug, having the cable run through the tubes and having your initials painted on it. However, stating, "I am not sure Serotta is a custom bike" is going to be interpreted as ignorant. I do believe that the thread was asking about custom frames.

The pics of your frame do look very nice and Eisentraut knows his way around a torch.

The pics of your frame do look very nice and Eisentraut knows his way around a torch.
Yes he does :) the guy is an artist.. :)

I thought about a custom with my bike but stock geometries with roadie bikes have always fit well. The one thing I might consider is a custom singlespeed mountain bike made by a local guy. As much as anything, it would be to have a frame that very, very few people have ever seen. Plus, the geometry would be pretty much average for a SS. I think I'm most attracted to the notion because of the scarcity of the bikes. This guy doesn't have enough of a market to be putting bikes out by the dozens.

Of course, it may all come crashing down if I see a frame he built and it sucks.

However, stating, "I am not sure Serotta is a custom bike" is going to be interpreted as ignorant.

Not by me. Serotta makes off the rack frames for sale to the individual who does not need a custom size. These are not custom frames. If I were to go on a bike ride and see someone riding a Serotta I would not be sure it was a custom frame unless I asked the rider. However, if I go on a ride and I see a 'Traut or an Assenmacher or an Isaac or a Sachs or a Bayliss or a Peter Moon, I would be sure it was a custom.

And there is a difference between a custom fit and a custom frame. Anyone can go through any of numerous fit systems available today and get custom fit to a frame. But a custom frame means that the tube lengths, lugs, whatever are specifically made to the specifications of one rider.

Also, I don't consider a custom finish to be a custom frame. I can get Ernesto Colnago to custom finish any of his off the rack frames, but it is still an off the rack frame.

Could it be that there isn't a right answer to the question "what makes a custom bike custom?"

Could it be that there isn't a right answer to the question "what makes a custom bike custom?"

Well, maybe, but the thread is about custom frames. :)

I have one custom frame a Dean Ti road, after 4 road bikes off the shelf I decided that only a custom sized frame would ever fit and so I bought one. Is it better, yes for me it is, I couldn't ask for a more correct fit than my El Diente.

Well, maybe, but the thread is about custom frames. :)

IT IS?!?!? Oh, snap, what was I thinking? ;)

Could it be that there isn't a right answer to the question "what makes a custom bike custom?"

Well let me give it a shot : a custom frame is a frame build by hand following a short interview (3-4 hrs) by the craftsman evaluating your morphology, habits, types of ridding etc .. and selecting all the components of the frame (lugs, tubes, paint, finishes etc..)

Its is not : a specific assembly of pre-built sub-assemblies, frames or customs paint jobs..

Is it required : no, even top racers usually don't even have that chance, most of them are racing on stock frames painted to the colors of their sponsors..only some team leaders have that chance sometimes ..

Does it really make a huge difference : I am not even sure, I have one, love it, enjoy it .. would redo the experience but its all about the love and an endulging project .. nothing else

interesting...I have 3 road bikes, one track and one tandem. none are custom built for me, but they all fit great. I'm 5'8" and ride a 53 to 55 cm frame. I've found that the right stem and seatpost can go a long way to setting up the right fit. But I've ridden some bikes with a long toptube that just will not work for me.

I am 5'8 as well and think that I may be a candidate for a custom bike since my torso is disproportionatley large (short legs). The wrenchscience.com site indicates that I need a 66 + total reach (top tube + stem) and last year I converted from a 10 cm stem to 12 and find the fit better. I think it was Eddy Merckx who was quoted as saying that if your stem is greater than 8 cm then you have the wrong bike. I was left with the impression that the top tube on my 53 cc bike was just too short and that the remidy would be a custom- made with an 8cm stem and a top tube in the 56 range if that were possible on a 53 frame. Since then I understand that there is a limit to mating long top tubes with short seat tubes, and a loss of rigidity by going with a longer top tube overall. I would be interested to know what total reach wrenchscience would come up with with someone else who is also 5'8, if your interested in going through that fit procedure. Currently I have the seat pushed all the way back, which doesn't seem to affect cadence since my lack of height may be in the lower leg, but I still feel bunched up and have about 4 cm of elbow to knee overlap when in the drops with elbows properly bent. If the lateral rigidity is compromised by a longer top tube, what is the net effect of a longer stem in place of the longer top tube? The materials are different, but would this mean that the crank power is dissipated less, while the torque from the handlebars is correspondingly increased? Thanks.

I am 5'8 as well and think that I may be a candidate for a custom bike since my torso is disproportionatley large (short legs). The wrenchscience.com site indicates that I need a 66 + total reach (top tube + stem) and last year I converted from a 10 cm stem to 12 and find the fit better. I think it was Eddy Merckx who was quoted as saying that if your stem is greater than 8 cm then you have the wrong bike. I was left with the impression that the top tube on my 53 cc bike was just too short and that the remidy would be a custom- made with an 8cm stem and a top tube in the 56 range if that were possible on a 53 frame. Since then I understand that there is a limit to mating long top tubes with short seat tubes, and a loss of rigidity by going with a longer top tube overall. I would be interested to know what total reach wrenchscience would come up with with someone else who is also 5'8, if your interested in going through that fit procedure. Currently I have the seat pushed all the way back, which doesn't seem to affect cadence since my lack of height may be in the lower leg, but I still feel bunched up and have about 4 cm of elbow to knee overlap when in the drops with elbows properly bent. If the lateral rigidity is compromised by a longer top tube, what is the net effect of a longer stem in place of the longer top tube? The materials are different, but would this mean that the crank power is dissipated less, while the torque from the handlebars is correspondingly increased? Thanks.

I'm 5'7 and have the opposite. Longer legs and shorter torso. I didn't buy a custom made bike but can clearly see some compromises in the frame I selected. I had to choose a 53' frame for my Bianchi but with the top tube being shorter, I have to sit back in the saddle or my foot will touch the front wheel. It's not a bad fit and I feel fine overall but I can see where a custom fit might actually work out slightly better. Still. I'm happy with my decision to get a frame that was ordered after a fitting.

the reason I decided to go with a custom bike is not because I couldn't find a stock bike to fit me, nor do I think the custom will be technically "better".. As a matter of fact, if I take the money I am spending on this custom bike, I would be able to get a top of the line, latest n greatest, Record carbon all around, 100 gram wheels, super duper titanium/carbon bike, and it will fit me just fine..
I ordered a custom bike because I wanted to treat my self to one classic bike that was made the old fashion way, that was made for me, and will be a unique and special bike.
I will keep my Giant and will ride it too, and will probably get another stock bike in 2 or 3 years as the technology progresses and new cool stuff shows up on the market...

you never can have too many bikes.. :)

Not by me. Serotta makes off the rack frames for sale to the individual who does not need a custom size. These are not custom frames. If I were to go on a bike ride and see someone riding a Serotta I would not be sure it was a custom frame unless I asked the rider. However, if I go on a ride and I see a 'Traut or an Assenmacher or an Isaac or a Sachs or a Bayliss or a Peter Moon, I would be sure it was a custom.

And there is a difference between a custom fit and a custom frame. Anyone can go through any of numerous fit systems available today and get custom fit to a frame. But a custom frame means that the tube lengths, lugs, whatever are specifically made to the specifications of one rider.

Also, I don't consider a custom finish to be a custom frame. I can get Ernesto Colnago to custom finish any of his off the rack frames, but it is still an off the rack frame.

I can tell you I absolutely need a custom bike due to my size, strength and the manner I ride. My Serotta has custom tubing not found on any model available in terms of geometry and materials. I also would not be offended if anyone else on the path knew if my bike was "truly" custom or not. I ride for me and typically not at speed where people are around to get a good look :D

the reason I decided to go with a custom bike is not because I couldn't find a stock bike to fit me, nor do I think the custom will be technically "better".. As a matter of fact, if I take the money I am spending on this custom bike, I would be able to get a top of the line, latest n greatest, Record carbon all around, 100 gram wheels, super duper titanium/carbon bike, and it will fit me just fine..
I ordered a custom bike because I wanted to treat my self to one classic bike that was made the old fashion way, that was made for me, and will be a unique and special bike.
I will keep my Giant and will ride it too, and will probably get another stock bike in 2 or 3 years as the technology progresses and new cool stuff shows up on the market...

you never can have too many bikes.. :)

I could not blame you. At your age you deserve it. :D

I could not blame you. At your age you deserve it. :D

At my age I can also afford it.. :D

This is one step in the process of building a custom frame. This rider is a not very famous rider, but is getting two(notice the 2x) of these bikes built up for him to get him through the season.

Some pros do not have custom frames built for them, eg USPS riders because of the high cost of manufacturing special molds for the carbon frames they ride. But many pros do have frames built specifically for them.

Notice the 71.4 degree seat angle and 72.5º head angle?

Barnaby
If you need a long bike, then consider using a compact style of frame. If you get the next size up, you will still have loads of standover clearance, but the TT will be longer. Its a whole lot cheaper than a custom frame.
The rigidity of a modern bike is not related to size as it used to be. When all tubing was a standard, thin diameter, large frames were bendy. Now we have tubing in all diameters, and frames are built to be stiff enough. In smaller sizes, they are perhaps too stiff.

You say your legs are small, but you have your saddle all the way back. This is indicative on long thighs. Maybe you just have short lower-legs. Pay special attention to crank length, which many people think, should be sized proportionately with femur length.

There is little advice around on the ratio of TT and stem length. It is sensible to make them proportionate, so small frames have small stems and big frames have big stems. For a med size, 10cm is sensible, but I use an 8 with no problems.

Barnaby
If you need a long bike, then consider using a compact style of frame. If you get the next size up, you will still have loads of standover clearance, but the TT will be longer. Its a whole lot cheaper than a custom frame.
The rigidity of a modern bike is not related to size as it used to be. When all tubing was a standard, thin diameter, large frames were bendy. Now we have tubing in all diameters, and frames are built to be stiff enough. In smaller sizes, they are perhaps too stiff.

You say your legs are small, but you have your saddle all the way back. This is indicative on long thighs. Maybe you just have short lower-legs. Pay special attention to crank length, which many people think, should be sized proportionately with femur length.

There is little advice around on the ratio of TT and stem length. It is sensible to make them proportionate, so small frames have small stems and big frames have big stems. For a med size, 10cm is sensible, but I use an 8 with no problems.

Thanks MichaelW. Bicycle fit is something which has interested me for some time now. It is only recently that I have found some comfort and accomodation in the drop position (thank God for Brooks and larger stems.) I had not considered the compact frame idea and will now do so. I will have to overcome a retro bias to steel bikes from the 80's and before first though. Currently I have two 120 mm stems on my two bikes-both have 53 cm top tubes I think. This puts me in the 65 cm total reach area, and I think I am getting close. I can definately live with this, but when I think what would be ideal, I start to think of the greater top tube dimension. The reason that I have the saddles all the way back is not indicative of thigh length, rather to a compromise to get more reach. I know that conventional wisdom states that this positioning should be comfined to getting proper KOP, rather than reach, but I still think a plumb bob from the bottom of the knee would intersect the pedal spindle as it is. The Brooks Team Pro will not set back all that far anyway. I had a radonneur bar on one bike which had only 37 or 38 width before it started to flare down to 41 on the bottom, I got rid of that one and now have a 44 Ritchie drop bar on one and a Cinelli original drop bar on the other at 42 cm. The drop is greater on the Cinelli and I still think I prefer it, but maybe not for overlong distances ( I have wide shoulders.) Anyway, bike fit only occured to my dim mind in the last two years after coming upon certain fit sites, and watching the TDF, and seeing that some of those guys seem to almost lie on the bike in the drops. My shadow in contrast, shows me almost standing up, and to think that I rode to Mexico and back in this position still amazes me. Thanks for the reply, Barnaby.

There are so many different stock bikes with different geometries that I would think on would have to be very tall or very short or have very unusual proportion to really need a custom frame.

Friend of mine bought a custom bike, even though she probably didn't need one. She was convinced that she couldn't get the right fit on a stock frame (after going to only one bike shop) even though she's 5'9". I think she wanted to get the stock bike for the paint job more than anything else - she tends to buy bikes by color more than anything else. So - she's getting a custom Ti Seven pained pink with Ultegra for $4500. Contrast this to the Ti Litespeed Tuscany w/ Ultegra I bought new - last year's model - for $2100. Pretty steep price to pay for custom, and God help her if she ever tries to sell it.

Personally, I say, if you can afford it, and you want one, why not?

I am in the process of ordering a Seven Axiom as we speak and I have completely enjoyed the process. I could probably find a bike to fit me pretty close(although the one I've been riding for the past 4 years is a bit too long for me). I was in the market for a new bike and for what I wanted to spend I thought this was going to be the "best" bike for me. I had been looking at some steel Italian frames but have since decided that it would be a better move for me to get a Seven and it has ended up being a great experience and is costing me less than the Italian bike(due to the horrible exchange rate between the dollar and the euro). I don't have the bike yet so I can't say how it fits but I highly anticipate the arrival of my new bike.