Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Bike Flipping 101

Do we need a "Bike Flipping 101" thread/stickie in the Valuation sub-forum?

Several threads recently are along the lines of: "I want to buy a bike to ride now and flip later so is this a good bike for that and if not then what should I look for and how do I know if a bike is a good bike to buy and flip".

I'm thinking maybe a generic, non-specific, generalized steps or process to select and then tune or repair and then price a bike. Probably pretty much the same comments that are already posted as replies to some of the current threads, but consolidated into one thread to direct people towards.

I'm not really a flipper, been keeping most of what I've found, but I have sold a couple of bikes over the last year or so, but "flipping" isn't my personal primary motivator. But I can see where some might see this as a way to make the hobby somewhat self supporting financially, "somewhat" being the operative word there.

Thoughts, comments, flames, other?

Some people make a living doing this... Ummmm.
And I Like it.

- When buying, look for original and complete bikes.
- Avoid housepaint.
- Avoid bikes missing parts; sometimes they are missing the most expensive or hardest-to-find parts.
- Don't overpay. Wait for a good deal.
- When you find a good deal, be sure to have the cash and the storage space
- Collectibles are down, riders are up

I think a sticky thread on flipping is a great idea for a place where flippers and wannabe flippers can share tips on what they do and how they do it. As for flipping as a way to a self-supporting bike habit I don't see that as a realistic goal. I flipped around 25 bikes in the last year and each and every one of them was considerably improved and immaculately cleaned. You can buy cheap, be careful about what you buy, know your target market--I live in a city with a large university so a good share of my flippers went to students--stockpile parts, buy cheap but decent parts when you need to but in the end any hope of really making a profit goes directly to the term 'opportunity cost' from Econ 101, i.e. could the time you spend on your flippers have been invested more profitably elsewhere. For me its a hobby and an avocation but my wife, who is a wonderful person but far too mercenary in this respect constantly harps about me not recovering the cost for my labor, Pedro's bike wash, chain lube, Phil Wood waterproof grease, the rags I wash in our washer and dry in our dryer, the solvent I use to clean up dead and damaged parts so the recycling dude will pick them up at our curbside dropoff, and generally ignores me when I say 'but honey it's a hobby fer chrissakes, would you rather have me collecting Corvettes and chasing hookers?'

I don't know if it would be limited to flipping, but some guidelines for someone who's shopping for a bike that may, or may not need to be fixed up would seem useful.

Buy low, sell high.

Neal

'but honey it's a hobby fer chrissakes, would you rather have me collecting Corvettes and chasing hookers?'

That's what I keep saying. And I justify money spent on the fact that I'm saving gas money and wear & tear on my car by riding to work a lot of the time (as opposed to her scrapbooking habit which is expensive and we get nothing back monetarily).

I kind of think price guidelines would be good, if ony to see if you're in the balpark. For instance, mid-80s Schwinns come up frequently; maybe put up a list of the lineup and what examples would typically cost in the range? And maybe the same thing with other brands? I'm not thinking of a database or anything, but as a model gets discussed, add the consensus of its value to the first post of the stickied thread (including the date of "appraisal")? Oh, and the back end and front end: 1984 Schwinn World Sport: Expect to buy at $10-20, Expect to sell for $40-60 after refurb, or something like that.

Hmm...............:rolleyes:

Values?
Techniques as far as wrenching, rehab, cleaning, troubleshooting?
Wheeling, dealing, negotiating part?

For values we have the Vintage Value sub-forum.
For techniques, we have this forum.
For the ugly money side,....maybe Flipping 101 would be good.

I'd just hope the cross-pollenation helps me find what I'm looking for, not make it harder.

+1 Make it a sticky.

I have been able to offset my hobby spending on myself, with flip profits. I think it is very doable. I don't think it is realistic to turn into a good paying job.

Now part of the reason I have been able to offset my spending on keepers and personal gear is that I am real thrifty about what I keep (I have kept some of my best flips for personal use). Offsetting a $75 keeper bike (Trek 950) is a lot easier than offsetting a new, $1000 plus ride. So if you are looking to offset the latest, best, brand new all carbon bike with Dura Ace components, well, you are going to have to be a lot better at flipping than I am. And about half of my riding gear has come from thrift stores as well.

So its not about how much "profit" I have made from flipping, its more about managing what I spend on the hobby.

I am off to a good start in 2009, with flips so far exceed the total of my flip profits for the entire year of 2008 through early March 09 (OK, I am starting from a low base number).

My objective with hobbies is to create enough income from the hobby to offset the spending. I do this both with bicycling and motorcycling. For motorycling (which is tougher to offset), I teach motorcycle riding, and earn enough to cover my spending. I don't do it with camping (oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad).

+1 Make it a sticky.

While you're at it, enact a rule prohibiting value inquiries for anything made after 1997.

-Kurt

+2 Make it a sticky.

My rules on fixing and flipping:

1. Assume you're going to have to replace tyres and tubes. Budget a minimum of $40.00 for that operation.
2. Plan on tearing the bike down to the last nut and bolt, re-greasing everything, and reassembling.
3. Don't expect to make money on your labor. If you've come out ahead after initial purchase (purchase?:eek:) and parts, you've made money.
4. Don't upgrade anything, unless you're planning on fixing the bike for personal use.
5. Used parts rule. The guy who run the re-cycle bicycle shop is your best friend.
6. Take any bike that isn't a WalMart bike - if it's free. Even if it's in wretched shape, it can be used to build up your replacement parts stock. And the frame can always be sold to someone who wants to build a fixie.

+2 Make it a sticky.

My rules on fixing and flipping:

1. Assume you're going to have to replace tyres and tubes. Budget a minimum of $40.00 for that operation.
2. Plan on tearing the bike down to the last nut and bolt, re-greasing everything, and reassembling.
3. Don't expect to make money on your labor. If you've come out ahead after initial purchase (purchase?:eek:) and parts, you've made money.
4. Don't upgrade anything, unless you're planning on fixing the bike for personal use.
5. Used parts rule. The guy who run the re-cycle bicycle shop is your best friend.
6. Take any bike that isn't a WalMart bike - if it's free. Even if it's in wretched shape, it can be used to build up your replacement parts stock. And the frame can always be sold to someone who wants to build a fixie.

I'll take a free Walmart bike - if the cables, housings, chain, tires and tubes are good. They are a good source for consumables.

I think the number 1 rule for flipping is "know your market". You need to know what the junker you're looking at will sell for, so that when you calculate the cost involved with replacing parts (labor HAS to be counted as free, as others have said) you actually make a buck or two.

Yeah, I'm not making any money but I'm not losing much and I've gotten to try out a wide variety of bike and get to know them. I've found a few keepers in the process and if I ever get all of this stuff out of the basement, I might be back in the black.

Hmm...............:rolleyes:

Values?
Techniques as far as wrenching, rehab, cleaning, troubleshooting?
Wheeling, dealing, negotiating part?

For values we have the Vintage Value sub-forum.
For techniques, we have this forum.
For the ugly money side,....maybe Flipping 101 would be good.

I'd just hope the cross-pollination helps me find what I'm looking for, not make it harder.

+1. No need to re-create the wheel.

The core knowledge is covered elsewhere (values, repair, etc,), but a thread on tips for being a good seller (with an emphasis on being effective, honest, ethical, and useful) might be a good idea, if anyone wants to start one.

BTW, word on the street is that Robbietunes just had a birthday.

Happy Belated Birthday! Hope you had a good day and squeezed in a nice ride.

If you asking if somethings flippable you shouldnt be flipping.

1. NO rust.
2. Complete bikes are a must.
3. Know your product.
4. Know your market.
5. Be prepared to lose money on some bikes.

I have drasticly different prices I'm willing to pay based on the quality level of the bike. Certain bikes I avoid like the plaque. Those would be all mountain bike and all non-bike store bikes. I also avoid anything from the last 10-15 years as they're a dime a dozen and not very collectible.

One of the most important things I consider is parting out value. If my 'flip' turns into a 'flop' can I part it out and recoup my money? Some bikes I buy with the sole intention of parting out.

While you're at it, enact a rule prohibiting value inquiries for anything made after 1997.

-Kurt

+1000. There's one reason and one reason only that all the value inquires get dumped into C&V. Its called snobbery and laziness in RC.

...... As for flipping as a way to a self-supporting bike habit I don't see that as a realistic goal....

ALL the bikes I've built and currently ride have been financed by flip money. All of them.

As for flipping as a way to a self-supporting bike habit I don't see that as a realistic goal.


ALL the bikes I've built and currently ride have been financed by flip money. All of them.

I keep very diligent records of my flipping on an Excel spredasheet. Everything I spend is entered including gas money, spare parts and if I use a part from one bike on another. My shipping costs, both actual and charged are calculated as well. (I make a 'profit' on shipping which covers my ebay/paypal and packaging expences. I've spend over $50 on packaging tape since August!!!) Its setup with a variety of formulas so all I have to do is enter a value and a +/- number appears to tell me if I'm in the red or black.

To defray costs I order tires, cables and bearings in bulk. I was previously paying upwards of $20 for an entry level Michelin 700c tire whereas buying in bulk I'm getting them for ~$9.50ea.

While I'm not going to say what my pure profits have been since I started flipping in August I will say its mid 4 figures and I have still have a sizeable inventory on hand as I'm stocking up for the spring time.

Some basic guidelines:

1. Tires: Figure $12-20 each if your buying them local plus $5 each for inner tubes. I order mine from www.biketriresdirect.com and only buy the least expensive tire I can find.

2. Cables: Figures $4 each with lined housing. Surprisingly my LBS has a lined Pyramid brand for $5 which is reasonable. I've ordered 50ft. rolls of black lined and stainless steel housing from www.loosescrews.com for roughly the same cost as the LBS set albeit the loosescrewsstuff is higher quality.

3. Bar tape. $8-10. I'm still looking for a $5 source.

4. Seats. $15-20 easliy for a basic model.

One could easily drop $60 in the blink of an eye on basic 'wear' items.

As an example, in my market, Tampa, I can sell a basic lugged steel LBS brand bike for $150-$225 all day long. Knock $60 of the top of those prices and your looking at $90-$165 as maximum paying prices to break even. I try to make $100 on any complete bike I sell so factoring that in I'm looking to spend $50-75 max on a basic luged steel LBS bike.

+1000. There's one reason and one reason only that all the value inquires get dumped into C&V. Its called snobbery and laziness in RC.

I haven't kept tabs on which threads have been moved or not (why are they not marked "moved" in the forum they are sent to - not the ones they were moved from?), but regardless of how many may be moved from RC, I would not rule out the possibility of a general group of Numbskulls posting modern bikes directly to the VVI subforum out of lazy convenience.

-Kurt

ALL the bikes I've built and currently ride have been financed by flip money. All of them.
+1 All of my bikes have been literally free and have helped us finance some of our vacations. I'm a bit different that I've had access to bikes that have brung in alot and which I've spent almost nothing. I doubt I will do as good once I'm stateside.

+1 Sticky

Buy cheap tires and tubes...Make no adjustments or tuning...Sell for three times the price.

3 flips: +1030, and they were flipped for precisely that reason...offers I couldn't refuse. :thumb:

5 flips: about even, but all 5 entered the sport and are still in it. ;)

4 flips: -300 or so, to pretty girls and BF members...I'm easy, and I simply bought too high. :mad:

So, am I up $700? Nope. :twitchy:
I'd say I'm down about a grand or so, :eek:

Here's why:
1983 Turbo
1984 Lemans RS
1985 Prestige
1986 Ironman
1987 Ironman
1988 Ironman (2)
1989 Ironman
2003 Marin
2004 GT saddleback
2005 Airborne Ti
and I'm sure there's still a couple or six Centurions I just gotta have.

:rolleyes: Flipping does help, though. I'm passive about it.

I need to get active, though: 2006 Kestrel Talon full DA 10-sp is lurking on my "to pay for" list. Looks like George Jetson's bike.

Hey, it happens.......:D

I'd be glad to see a Flipping 101.
1-tricks and tips for a quick and cheap physical turnaround.
2-when to fold 'em, or hold 'em.
3-how do folks like BBM turn them around so quickly and so nice looking? stuff like that.

Buy cheap tires and tubes...Make no adjustments or tuning...Sell for three times the price.
+1
I use take-off tires, try not to spend more than $10 per tire, and I'm back to patching tubes.

I was going to say the same buy low sell high that nlerner posted. One other wisdom I can think of is part it out! Bikes are almost always worth more in pieces than whole. I have made almost twice as much on the parts than selling complete bikes.

I have kept accurate records of bike purchases/flippers/part outs in a few Excel spreadsheets and old fashion paper. I have three excel spreadsheets for the bike "business". 1)ORIGINAL PURCHASE PRICE=what I paid for every single bike I have purchased (140 bikes as of now) 2)SOLD-two separate sheets on the same excel problem. First sheet is frames/forks or complete bikes sold with price it sold for, what it cost me to build, and profit plus date sold. the second sheet is parts with the same sold for, cost, profit, and date sold. The third sheet is all of those numbers added up by month for bikes/frames/forks and parts in separate entries. 3)CUSTOMER LIST with name, what they bought, and email address. It is handy for refreshing my memory if a previous customer is looking for another bike for themselves or friends or just parts I can recall what they bought previously. For the actual calculations of the cost to build up a bike after an overhaul I use old fashion paper in a three ring binder. I make a list of all of the parts and costs associated with making it rideable again. I only list the new stuff I add (bar tape, tires, tubes, cables, housing, etc.) not used parts I use from the parts bin. I also make parts lists when I part out a bike of the parts that came from that bike so when they are sold I can enter the numbers and figure how much profit I made parting it out.

If you really really want to be a flipper you need lots of cables, housing, bar tape, tires and tubes and to get them cheap. I work at a shop so I restocked my cables and housing this summer with the 50m rolls of housing and 100 count boxes of cables. For tires, tubes, and bar tape you can often find deals on Nashbar or Performance when they put stuff on sale with an additional 10-20% off coupon. When they do stock up! The last time I stocked up with a few hundred dollar order I bought 20+ tires, 10 things of bar tape, and 20+ tubes. You also need the know how and all the required tools to do it which can be expensive on their own.

3. Bar tape. $8-10. I'm still looking for a $5 source.


I buy Ambrosio bike ribbon from PBK, $2.21 a set, delivered. It is very easy to wrap, and looks good, too. It doesn't come with plugs, but is plenty long for even the biggest bars.

I keep very diligent records of my flipping on an Excel spredasheet. Everything I spend is entered including gas money, spare parts and if I use a part from one bike on another. My shipping costs, both actual and charged are calculated as well. (I make a 'profit' on shipping which covers my ebay/paypal and packaging expences. I've spend over $50 on packaging tape since August!!!) Its setup with a variety of formulas so all I have to do is enter a value and a +/- number appears to tell me if I'm in the red or black.

.....

My eyes just glazed over.:twitchy:

I just do this as a hobby and because I like bikes. It'd be nice to make four figures a quarter doing it, but right now I'd be happy making three figures if it keeps air in my tires. What you'd be willing to pay for a bike is almost what finished flipped bikes tend to go for up here. My limit on flip-fodder is under $30 for a generic bike if it is in reasonable condition. One of the primary local resellers of used bikes is currently down to around $80 for his ready-to-ride bikes and under $30 for his kids bikes. Of course it is currently below 30degF outside and we had freezing rain over the weekend and people are walking on water up here currently to do their lake fishing (ice fishing), so locale definitely is a major factor in what to pay and what something will sell for.

And a quote from one of the value threads that got me to start this thread:

I am going to hit garage sale season hard when it starts up. Thrift stores around here literally never have anything!

To this I will simply say that sometimes they don't have anything, and sometimes someone else got there before you. Usually, decent bikes don't sit long on a thrift shop sales floor.

Buy cheap tires and tubes...Make no adjustments or tuning...Sell for three times the price.

We all have different views on this but I take pride in what I'm doing and would never sell a bike without fully cleaning, adjusting and tuning. If I wouldn't ride it myself or let my kids ride it, it wouldn't leave the garage. It gives me great pleasure when I sell a bike knowing the new owner is not going to have some problem that would come back on me because I left some worn out, hardened brake pads or damaged cables on I bike they bought from me in good faith, which is what most people do; they aren't mechanics or very experienced with bikes so they are putting some degree of trust in me which I try my best to validate.

I'd be glad to see a Flipping 101.
1-tricks and tips for a quick and cheap physical turnaround.
2-when to fold 'em, or hold 'em.
3-how do folks like BBM turn them around so quickly and so nice looking? stuff like that.

1) buy bikes that are all ready in better shape. That can mean more expensive newer road bikes, but they can sometimes be a hard sell. The easiest for a quick turn around with minimal effect is part it out and put the parts up on Ebay or CL.
2) A bike that is a mix match of previous owner upgrades I part almost all of those out. A few of those I parted out the nice parts and then rebuilt using parts bin parts for an easy $100-150 bike and a quick sell. But, if you live in a northern climate HOLD EM' until spring then that first stretch of nicer weather in Feb./March/April put them up on CL. Normally, I sell the normal flippers throughout the warmer months than when winter hits I start listed the nicer high end vintage parts I have been stashing throughout the year on CL, Ebay, and the vintage emails lists (CR and Bob lists).
3) The turn around time is something I tend to have a problem with. I can get them to be perfectly functioning and looking their best, but that takes time. For me working in a bike shop for 8+ hours a day during the busy summer months I don't want to go home and work on more bikes for a couple more hours before bedtime. I would rather get to ride some personally. I am trying to use this time in the winter to finish up all of my long outstanding projects to be ready when spring hits here in the mitten state.

So... how do you sell? Craigslist? Ebay? Bulletin boards?

search forums, read up a lot, then start buying and selling. No substitute for experience. Ask few questions and think about each question for a few days before you ask it.

I keep very diligent records of my flipping on an Excel spreadsheet.

Some basic guidelines:

1. Tires: Figure $12-20 each if your buying them local plus $5 each for inner tubes. I order mine from www.biketriresdirect.com (http://www.biketriresdirect.com) and only buy the least expensive tire I can find.

2. Cables: Figures $4 each with lined housing. Surprisingly my LBS has a lined Pyramid brand for $5 which is reasonable. I've ordered 50ft. rolls of black lined and stainless steel housing from www.loosescrews.com (http://www.loosescrews.com) for roughly the same cost as the LBS set albeit the loosescrewsstuff is higher quality.

3. Bar tape. $8-10. I'm still looking for a $5 source.

4. Seats. $15-20 easliy for a basic model.

One could easily drop $60 in the blink of an eye on basic 'wear' items.

As an example, in my market, Tampa, I can sell a basic lugged steel LBS brand bike for $150-$225 all day long. Knock $60 of the top of those prices and your looking at $90-$165 as maximum paying prices to break even. I try to make $100 on any complete bike I sell so factoring that in I'm looking to spend $50-75 max on a basic luged steel LBS bike.

1. Tires: I shoot for $5 plus shipping for the basic bikes (Niagara or similar), and buy tubes from Pricepoint for $2 (plus 40 cent shipping per tube). So I can put tires and tubes on a bike for less than $20. If it is a real nice bike, I will use $10 tires, plus the tubes, so a set of nice tires and tubes would be less than $30.

3. Bar tape: I load up when it is on sale at Nashbar, last large order averaged less than $5 a set.

4. Seats: I pick up seats at thrift stores and garage sales. I have never paid over $2 for a replacement seat. It is kind of odd that the same thrift store that sells bikes (all with torn seats) will have new seats on an adjacent shelf for $2 or less. But thats what I have found. I pick up every seat I see at those prices.

To avoid getting hammered on shipping, I keep a list for future internet part orders. Almost everything comes from Pricepoint, Nashbar or Niagara. I get an occasional odd piece from loosescrews.

And nothing beats a donor bike, I have picked up several for $5 to $10, which have provided seats, pedals, wheels, cranksets, derailleurs, etc. The donor usually has some fatal flaw (like a four inch crack on a chain stay), otherwise I would flip them.

+1 on an excel spreadsheet.

+1 on building inventory for spring sales.

But I did move three bikes at spring type prices on Jan 1st and 2nd. Odd but a welcome spurt of business.

Know how to market your bike. It's all about adding value to your bike, whether it's actual or perceived. Flipping the stem, setting the bars straight, new bar tape and a good cleaning can add much more value than new tires. Many people don't realize the costs of tires, so why would they care if it's got new ones?

When you list your bike, make sure you sound knowledgeable about the bike without being too technical. People are less likely to talk you down if you know your stuff. Also, know your target market. Who are you selling to? What are they going to care about? Do they care that your bike is all period correct? No. Realize that the majority of buyers know little to nothing about bicycles.

Take nice pictures. Make sure they are well lit, and of good quality. Don't upload them through craigslist or ebay, instead use a dedicated host site such as photobucket, and embed the photos that way.

We all have different views on this but I take pride in what I'm doing and would never sell a bike without fully cleaning, adjusting and tuning. If I wouldn't ride it myself or let my kids ride it, it wouldn't leave the garage. It gives me great pleasure when I sell a bike knowing the new owner is not going to have some problem that would come back on me because I left some worn out, hardened brake pads or damaged cables on I bike they bought from me in good faith, which is what most people do; they aren't mechanics or very experienced with bikes so they are putting some degree of trust in me which I try my best to validate.

Amen. As I mundanely work in a Honda motorcycle shop (and have done all my Craigslist sales out of there - the company is very kind, and I've built a couple of bikes for coworkers already) the concept of a happy customer not coming back with a complaint is very important to me. Besides, I normally keep any bike that I can fit for at least a couple of weeks in between rebuilding and selling, and I ride it. Which means, if I'm not happy with what I'm riding, I'm not going to dump it off on some paying customer.

Now, one huge money saving secret I've got is that I have full use of the dealership's shop, including the bead blasting tank, large wire brushing wheels, parts cleaner, etc. Which means that virtually everything that bike comes with gets reused. I haven't bought a chain in ages for a flipper - twenty minutes on the bead blaster takes care of any rust (and it's my lunch break, or even during work hours if things are quiet).

So... how do you sell? Craigslist? Ebay? Bulletin boards?

Craigslist or word of mouth. I'm not interested in shipping, as I spent ten years running a mail-order business. Besides, I've got a big enough market area with the local colleges.

Craigslist or word of mouth. I'm not interested in shipping, as I spent ten years running a mail-order business. Besides, I've got a big enough market area with the local colleges.

I have two local colleges and I live in a very bike friendly town. I will ship and for most of the stuff I have sold in the past few months have shipped most of it. I didn't for the longest time, but finally figured out I was loosing out on easy money. Now these are parts I am willing to ship and not complete bikes. I have shipped only one frame/fork that I sold on CL, and it sold for $75+shipping costs. I wouldn't ship any under $50 frame/fork I was selling as it is not worth the effort.

Most of the items I do ship tend to be higher end vintage parts that besides on Ebay can be tough to find. When pricing those items I look on Ebay and see what range they sell for. I usually go right in the middle of the range and hope for the best. I can always lower the price in the end if I want to. If it doesn't sell within so much or I really need money I list a bunch of stuff on Ebay.

Take good photos.

Take close-up photos of the "selling points" of the bikes eg: lugs, embossed details.

Women's vintage mixte bikes will sell for $100 or so; throw a $15 basket and a $3 bell and you can get $200.

Put a $3 bell on any bike you sell and mention it in the ad, even better. mention it in the heading.

Mention the size of the rider, not the bike, very few people will know the size they need.

A good example of a CL heading: "Vintage ladies bike, suits a rider 5'3-5'9, pink, bell, fenders, basket"

If the bike is clean and shiny, has new tape and an intact saddle, you can overcome a lot of the faults. It is amazing to me that people sell dirty bikes with flat tires, torn saddles and bar tape. A $20 investment and some elbow grease could add $50 to the price of almost any bike on CL.

Know how to market your bike. It's all about adding value to your bike, whether it's actual or perceived. Flipping the stem, setting the bars straight, new bar tape and a good cleaning can add much more value than new tires. Many people don't realize the costs of tires, so why would they care if it's got new ones?


As far as tires, as a minimum, I sell bikes that are ready to ride. So the dry rotted tires get replaced always. Now if the tires look good, I don't replace them. And I have reused tires from a donor bike. About half the thrift store/garage sale bikes I find have dry rotted tires.

Sometimes they actually have good/great tires, and I have swapped them out for personal use with new $5 tires.

I used to sell by eBay, then one on CL. Now it's totally word of mouth, and words out of my mouth. I look for opportunity, often at running events. My Christmas bike giveaway gets some folks interested.

Best sales tool: a prior customer who still can't stop grinning.

I guarantee my work for a month, not the vintage parts, and I have a buy back price if they go modern.

1966
• Dad taught me how to fix my own bike at 8 and said never to call and asked to be "picked up" if said bike broke down.
70's
• Grew up in Santa Clara Valley and road my bike everywhere. My bike was my best friend and fixing bikes made me allot of new best friends.
• Went to college and bought Campy parts out of the back of a VW van from a cool guy. Named Mike. Mike Sinyard.
80's
• Got hit by a car the summer before I was to start Law School, Could not ride for 2 years.
• Took job contracted to Uncle Sam managing Missile Motors and Warhead Cans.
• Bought new 1983 Colnago Mexico using my Bike Accident lawsuit money. My Rosebud
• RODE. Built Bombs. RODE.
• Saw HS Classmate Jim Gentes wearing BULLET SHAPED HELMET @ Hike & Bike. "Yeah Jim, that'll sell."
• Saw LeMond in said helmet a year later win on the last day of the tour by 8 seconds.
90's
• Iraq War 1.
• Start thinking Bombs are bad.
• Moved to Hawaii to work with Handicapped and At-Risk-Youth. Rode less.
2000
• Moved back to CA.
• Semiconductor's better than bombs.
• Got married. Needed hobby. Took over basement.
• Started "flipping"
• Red Cross Working Katrina.
2007
• Respond to Craigslist Ad about "288 Old but New Bikes".
• Tell 96 year old Dad about bikes. He Said, "Son, I would buy those bikes"
• Dad dies two weeks later.
• Bought the Bikes.
• Epic 3 day Journey with 288 bikes includes, Death, Destruction, Tornado’s and we hadn’t left Illinois!
• Hobby is over.
• Use half of wife's Art Studio and open small Bike Shop in North Beach.
2008
• Use Dads famous line "It's a $100 if I do it and $200 if you watch." Collect $200
• Find. People like bikes. Shop is too small. Sound travels through walls.
• Email from B. Bayliss. "You have my Rosebud"
• Find. $ is not as important as finding the right bike for the right rider and sharing the experience.
• Find. Wife wants Peace, Quiet and Studio back or it’s just me and my bikes.
• Find. I need a young partner and more old steel bikes.
• Promise wife her studio back for New Years.
2009
• Move across the street taking a little longer than thought.
• Wife begins art piece consisting of Vintage Steel KNIVES.
• Create 'Declaration of Principles'

NOW
• Heading out on a short ride to the Golden Gate on my Pashley Guv'Nor
• Working all day on shop.
• Small group of friends form "The Chain Gang"
• Hope to still be married next week.

Love working one bikes.
Lot better than building bombs.

DA. San Francisco, CA

P.S.
Thanks Dad

Yard Saleing 101:
Buying bikes at a yard sale is still a great, viable way to find bargains. Hey, if they're selling it at a yard sale, they probably have no clue what it's worth.
Search on Craigslist and newspapers for yard sales in your area. "Community" yard sales offer many houses to search in a short amount of time.
Arrive early, For a 7:00AM yard sales, you should be at your first sale not later than 6:45. By 8:15, all the good bikes are gone, time to go home.
If you're a flipper, buy brand name mountain bikes if they are cheap. They can be flipped too.
Consider $5 department store bikes. They can be a source of tires, shifters and cable housing.
When at a yard sale where you don't see bikes, ASK! I've found at least 10 bikes and more parts by simply asking "Are you selling any bikes or bike parts". Its amazing what comes out of the basement, under the house or storage shed. Two of my best buys, a Trek 560 and a Cannondale SR500 I obtained cheap because they "forgot to put the bikes out for the sale".
Always ask "Can you do better on the price?" Ninety percent of the time, they do!
If you see competition evaluating the bike, pull out the money and shove it in the sellers hand and walk with the bike. One of the local guys doesn't bother to get out of his car when he sees me holding a bike.

I find that I sort of triage the bikes I buy. Some of the better ones (say Schwinn World Sport or above) will get the full rebuild treatment of cleaning, new parts and adjustments. Cheapo bikes, like department store road/mountain or low end 3 speeds, will get good tires, brake pads a quick squirt of fresh grease into the bearings and an adjustment. If the cables are in poor shape I will replace them, but I leave the outer housing if it is in reasonable shape.

A fully 'dressed' bike will sell for $150-250 and those are worth putting some time in. The cheapo bikes sell for under $100 (sometimes well under) but they are normally going to college students looking for a crappy bike for campus that is going to get left outside anyway. I figure with the minimal work I do on the cheapies, they are still in far better shape than a new $60 bike from Walmart.

CitizenChain's post belongs in my "What Do You Do For A Living?" thread. Love it! My wife is making some of the same noises about the old bikes I stored in the garage.

• Wife begins art piece consisting of Vintage Steel KNIVES.


:eek:

great post.

Another point. You need to consider the balance between supply and demand. If you can quickly sell anything you can get your hands on, and it is easy for you to get your hands on things (you are resourceful), you can keep your prices lower than the other sellers. If your prices are noticeably lower than everybody else's, and your stuff is just as good, your stuff will move while their stuff sits. You have to keep your product costs down to maintain your profit margin, but can do well with volume. You will also do well to keep product quality up, since you may wind up bumping into your customers again. Referrals are always better than rebukes. For maximum profit, you should try to "cherry pick" your merchandise. For maximum fun and satisfaction, that curbside treasure may be just what the doctor ordered. Overall, need to keep business and hobby side in balance.

Flipping pays for my upkeep on my riders. Anything with straight wheels and that shifts and brakes well gets sold pretty easy around here. Then there's the collectable bikes that always seem to clog up my storage and eat up my flip money.

Flipping was what originally got me to this site. I picked up a beautiful Paramount and was wondering exactly what I had. I really don't flip (to me that just means you are buying something, fixing it up and reselling it). I tend to buy bikes with decent bones and good parts then I break them down and sell as parts. I bet close to 100% of the time I make more with parts than a whole bike. Yea, it's a pain to deal in a bunch of items but its a change from my regular job. Occasionally I'll run into something I keep. And sometimes I run into stuff, mostly older, that's worth more than I thought. And occasionally I buy high and sell low. It's all part of the learning curve and bottom line reason why I do it--to stroke my bike addiction. Oh, I'll probably keep the Paramount if it doesn't sell on ebay--riding it, I've grown attached.

I just found this: Bicycle Shipping box at U-Line shipping supplies (http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?model=S-4878&root=&searchedkeywords=bicycle). Must buy in quantities of 5, at $8.87 per box. U-Line has several locations around the U.S.

Shipping bikes seems to come up frequently, and for those who use ebay and have to ship, this is one option.

Take good photos.

Take close-up photos of the "selling points" of the bikes eg: lugs, embossed details.

Women's vintage mixte bikes will sell for $100 or so; throw a $15 basket and a $3 bell and you can get $200.

Put a $3 bell on any bike you sell and mention it in the ad, even better. mention it in the heading.

Mention the size of the rider, not the bike, very few people will know the size they need.

A good example of a CL heading: "Vintage ladies bike, suits a rider 5'3-5'9, pink, bell, fenders, basket"

Excellent advice. I've only flipped a few bikes but recently listed a very small touring bike on CL several times without success. I saw this post, edited my title to reflect the size of the rider, and sold it within a week.

Do I owe Jet Sanchez a cut of the proceeds?;)

Do I owe Jet Sanchez a cut of the proceeds?;)[/QUOTE]

Giving him recognition on BF for being a top-shelf marketing genius is a reward in itself. However, who would turn down a one or two year subscription to their favorite cycling magazine?;)