Living Car Free - Wife, job, family issues with car free choice...

I was sold on the car free transition after reading Living Car Free, but with the economy putting every one's job in question I'm finding myself hanging on to that security blanket. If my school district cuts my teaching position at the high school and I need to transfer to a position where I bounce between elementary schools next year, I would be completely bike dependent because the bus system in town won't cut it. (They have one bus doing two large loops on alternate half hours covering a town of 25,000 people.) Depending on my ability to get across town throughout the school year on a bike in Wisconsin seems a bit risky.

I have a commute back-up plan for my current situation should I need it using our bus system should the bike break down, and I think I could work something out with a few colleagues at work so that in a pinch, I could get there even if I get a flat at the worst point along the route.

My wife doesn't want us to go down to one car since they are both older models (2000 & 2002) but I see that as another reason to ditch the newer one right away while we can get some cash for it, and to begin socking away the savings to replace the older one. The 2000 is the minivan that holds our entire family. She is also training to be a midwife who covers home births, so she is going to need a car for the duration. I have kids in choirs and sports teams that travel, and a teenager who is about to get his license. But I'm most concerned about situations when my wife is called to attend a birth, and the youngest kid (age 6) has to be picked up, or one of the older kids needs help getting somewhere that my wife had planned to drive. I could probably rent a car on those rare occasions, but no guarantee that it's available on short notice.

Am I trying to talk myself out of doing what would be best for my family? Did everyone else have similar concerns creep into their mind when making this decision? I'm going to begin using the bus and bike to get to work anyway, but it's the commitment that selling the car represents that I feel I'm having a problem with. And we could sure use the money this year.

Please send your wisdom...

Well, feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt because I have no family, pets, or... anything. Im just a young professional. For what its worth, a 2000 is NOT a late model car. If you have taken car of them then any modern car made after 1990 will go for at least 200,000 miles, regardless of make/model. I think that with the economy the way it is, giving up one car would be protecting your family not hurting them. I hear car people talk a lot about the "risk" of going carfree. I was the same way, with or without a family. You feel scared and attached to that big hunk of metal huh? I highly recommend the book "Living well without a car." It does not take a moral issue with car use but instead the first half is almost entirely an economic argument. In fact he says in chapter one that the worst financial decision that any personal will likely make is the decision to own a car. The second half of the book is a how to guide on how to live a full, fun, and rich life without owning a car. Its great and cost $10 on amazon. Hope this helps!

Each person's situation is different. My ex-wife accepted my carfree attitude, but she realized that some times the money I saved riding instead of driving was the difference between being in the black or in the red.

You do what you can do. In your case, your wife's job as a midwife is the driving concern. She must have dependable transportation. And at times, you must be able to pick up the kids. You might be able to take a tip from the legendary Sheldon Brown. In France he used to go pick up both of his kids at school. (http://sheldonbrown.org/kidbikeback.html)

http://sheldonbrown.org/images/150/kidbikeback-1-89.jpg

Check in the winter riding forum. There are definitely people here living in New York, Chicago and Canada who commute all winter.

Do what you can. If it doesn't work this year, it might next.

where do you live in WI?

It is different for everybody...but one of my favorite pictures comes from a fellow forum member (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=52404)

Aaron:)

Start off by talking to your kids. Most 16 year olds are responsible enough to pick up a 6 year old sibling after school. Really, most 12 year olds are responsible enough. So if there is no bus service and the 6 year old's school is within walking distance, the main issue is making sure there's someone to teach how to walk to and from school. (if there *is* bus service, the 6 year old should take the bus, just like everyone else)

The older ones need to know the burden that their after school activities put on the family budget. As a teen, I was allowed *one* extracurricular that required regular staying late. Could have been a sports team (allowed because if the team had an away game, you took the team bus to the game and then back to school), or an academic thing, but I got one. More than that meant fees we couldn't afford, and an extra 20 miles on the car every time I had to stay late. There was no mass transit to get me home, so my parents were fairly strict about it. There were plenty of extracurriculars that *didn't* take staying late, and I could do as many of those as I wanted. You don't need to be as strict as my parents, but it's not reasonable to set things up so you need to drive to get all the kids every evening either.

And yeah, seconding that those are both new cars. With reasonable care, most cars will last over 200,000 miles. And more reliable models should last around 400,000 miles. So unless they're something awful like a KIA, there's no need to worry about reliability yet.

Winter is a reasonable concern. I get by in Madison with a combination of walking and using the bus. When I'm healthy, I can walk a mile in about 15 minutes and I can stay warm with sensible clothing. The bus lets me dodge some walking (tho by no means *all*), and helps me handle things when it is bitterly cold. 10F, fine, I can handle that. 0F, I'm doing better but I'm still not *good* at it... and below that I really shouldn't be out for long periods. Not acclimated enough yet.

Try stuff, and see what works. You probably can't go car free right now, but you and your family can easily work towards being a one car family.

I could probably rent a car on those rare occasions, but no guarantee that it's available on short notice.

Do some investigation on this point -- it could make a big difference to your confidence that you can handle emergencies. I may only need a car once or twice a year, but when I do need it it's often because I need to transport heavy lab equipment with no advance notice. In my town, we've got a locally owned rental place that has always come through for me. I can ride into their lot at any time with no notice at all, and they never fail to find something they can rent me that will do the job, and provide a safe place to park the bike while I've got their car. (Of course, if I do give them notice, they're even better.)

I go out of my way to give them my business even when a chain rental place might be cheaper, because I know that they'll find a way to bail me out of a jam when Hertz or Enterprise would just say, "Sorry, we're out of cars today. Would you like to make a reservation for a future date?"

If you've got such a place in your town, find out about them now, and you can rest easier knowing that they've got your back in an emergency.

(And for you Santa Cruz folks, if you ever rent cars, get to know Auto World on Soquel. They're great!)

My wife doesn't want us to go down to one car since they are both older models (2000 & 2002) but I see that as another reason to ditch the newer one right away while we can get some cash for it, and to begin socking away the savings to replace the older one. The 2000 is the minivan that holds our entire family. She is also training to be a midwife who covers home births, so she is going to need a car for the duration. I have kids in choirs and sports teams that travel, and a teenager who is about to get his license. But I'm most concerned about situations when my wife is called to attend a birth, and the youngest kid (age 6) has to be picked up, or one of the older kids needs help getting somewhere that my wife had planned to drive. I could probably rent a car on those rare occasions, but no guarantee that it's available on short notice.

Am I trying to talk myself out of doing what would be best for my family? Did everyone else have similar concerns creep into their mind when making this decision? I'm going to begin using the bus and bike to get to work anyway, but it's the commitment that selling the car represents that I feel I'm having a problem with. And we could sure use the money this year.

Please send your wisdom...

Your description of your lifestyle tells me that you aren't ready to be a one-car family. To get there IMHO you are going to have to work at it. The biggest challenge I see if the teenager who is about to get a license. That's where I would focus my attention right now, convincing him that 1) you can't afford to provide him with another vehicle and that 2) there are a lot of other ways for him to get around.

Seems to me that you are in danger of becoming a 4-car family if you aren't careful. I would suggest that you set a good example to your children... showing how easy it is for you to move around without a 4-wheeler. Get them interested in bikes. Take them out with you on trips to the grocery store. Take them to the LBS and drool over new models. Maybe start doing your own repairs and letting your teenager help.

Let your car freedom evolve rather than jumping in quickly and alienating the whole family....

I understand the hesitance of going to one car. I am in the same situation and most of the hesitance is related to my wife's input and thoughts. My commute is 10 blocks and I've been commuting 99.9% for about 10 months now. My wife drives a 98 CRV and I have a 92 Accord with 202K+ miles. I have had my car parked in the garage for the winter so it's kind of out of sight, out of mind. We have a 7-week old baby but my wife doesn't work at all. Basically she needs the car to go to the doctor, grocery, store, friends and other general errands; none of which are tied to a certain schedule. This means I could drive her car to work if I have a bike malfunction; which did happen the other day, I bent the rear axle on my Le Tour and my chain was froze on my Collegiate.

In my mind/situation getting rid of my car would basically mean my family has to think differently about leaving the house and doing activities. If she has an evening function scheduled then I can't go do something where I need to go far from the house till she gets back. Or if I have bike trouble and have to drive in then she may be staying in the house all day and the groceries can wait. Bottom line is this will create unforeseeable, logistical issues; but we save money and our life slows down as a family and we reduce the pace/stress. I could also buy a nice, dependable Surly with the money from selling my car.

For now I still have the car in the garage sitting idle, actually the battery is dead and I haven't been motivated to get a new one since I never drive it anyways. I did start a conversation the other evening about putting bike parts in the budget to replace the Car maintenance line item. My wife is not a bike fanatic like me but she did seem open to this suggestion.

Final Note: I feel like getting rid of my car is one of those thing's I will worry about for a long time beforehand, then when I actually do it I will find it's a piece of cake.

To me, I wouldn't see it as a commitment by selling the car. You sell your used car this year. If you need a car next year you buy another used car. You save a years worth of depreciation on the car and the insurance payments and maintenance costs.

Does your town have taxis? If you can call one in a pinch that's always a backup plan. Your town is probably too small to have a car-sharing service which would probably be ideal as backup. But perhaps a relative or neighbour backup plan?

Also if you need to drive in and worry about your wife being car-less all day, she could drop you off at work, then pick you up again so she would have use of the car.

The logistics are easier than you think IMHO FWIW (not having a family or living in a small town..)

It sounds like you're a candidate for what we call "carlite" or the good old fashioned one-car American family. Carfree might be a couple years off for you, given that you live in an area with an antiquated car-dependent infrastructure.

One thing to keep in mind is that until roughly the 1970s, only wealthy American families had two cars. Almost every family had one car. Cars were also less reliable then, and public transit was as bad or worse than it is now. Us kids were more responsible for our own transportation than modern kids are. There's no reason modern kids can't take back some of this responsibility, as gerv and Torilliin pointed out.

Another tip--learn to trust the bike more. It's very reliable transportation in all kinds of weather. The main thing that will stop you from riding would be an injury. I've been unable to ride due to a hand injury, but it's important to note that I've also been unable to drive a car.

Bike reliance is a little tricky at first, since you didn't take a 12-week high school course in driving a bike--while you probably did take such a class to learn to drive a car. Experience--and resources like bikeforums and others--will help make up the gap in your formal education. You mentioned something about getting a ride if you had a bike tire problem while commuting. Actually, you can take tire repair equipment with you, and change a tire within 5 minutes once you've practiced a few times.

So there are lots of little things (and a few big ones) to work out. The biggest obstacle is usually a bad attitude, meaning basic inflexibility and unwillingness to try novel solutions to the same old problems. And remember, nobody here will think worse of you if you decide that your goal is not being carfree, but working to become carfree at a later time.

Welcome to LCF. Good traveling on whatever road you decide to take. :)

I highly recommend the book "Living well without a car." It does not take a moral issue with car use but instead the first half is almost entirely an economic argument. In fact he says in chapter one that the worst financial decision that any personal will likely make is the decision to own a car. The second half of the book is a how to guide on how to live a full, fun, and rich life without owning a car. Its great and cost $10 on amazon. Hope this helps!

I second this good suggestion.

How to Live Well Without Owning a Car (http://books.google.com/books?id=7Aaqef3g6J0C&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=%22living+well+without+a+car%22&source=web&ots=BigMIV4Yjz&sig=QiWxY-UgI0YDBvx2pOBW-hBCvhk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA140,M1)

Divorce your Car (http://books.google.com/books?id=yVw0z-Vm1IAC&dq=divorce+your+car&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result)

One thing to keep in mind about the possibility of replacing a car with a bike: the resources necessary to manufacture a new bike is 1% of the resources needed for a car. If bicycle could allow families to go from 2 to 1 cars or from 1 to 0, this would have an enormous impact on the earth's dwindling resources.

By giving your kids ongoing lessons in self-reliance, ingenuity and non-conformity, you're giving them things of much more value than comfy rides to ballet and karate class.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your perspectives. I've decided to make the commitment to the commute in hopes of convincing my family that it's the right thing to do. I've thoroughly checked out the bus route detours, and decided that winter is the right time to use the commuter bus since the racks are always free to carry a bike. The rest of the year, I'll burn my own calories for the full distance from Appleton to Neenah, WI and back. I've decided that I can get to the other school by bike if my teaching assignment should change. So I picked up some studded tires from Peter White's, made a few adjustments to the fenders to clear my new tires and will purchase a 30 day bus pass today.

We do have some taxi service as well as car rental if I should find myself in a bind. We may miss a game or practice now and then, and that is OK. We have always limited the extracurricular involvement for financial reasons and to slow down the pace, and it has been worth it. Our kids have to choose what they care about most, and that choice is good for them. They aren't busy every moment, and that is good for them as well. The second car doesn't affect how our kids get to and from school. Even with ride sharing, I can't be there in time anyway. If my wife can't drive because of a birth, she calls another parent to fill in.

Conformity isn't an issue, LOL. If you only knew us, you wouldn't have brought it up. We have home schooled most of them, homeopathed, organicized, raw milked, solar hot watered, and herbalized all of our kids. My kids think for themselves. I'm happy to say we made a lot of good choices in between our mistakes. We take every opportunity to embarrass our teens with our personal taste in clothes although I've seen far more flamboyant folks. Sometimes, we even dance and sing in public! I knew we did something right when my oldest son told me he would buy his clothes at Good Will.

So, the full commitment to the bike commute begins, and the car is bound to follow. I hope seeing it in the garage day after day, combined with the reality that Quicken brings to our family budget will convince my wife that it is time to sell the sedan while it is still worth something. How else will we buy the replacement for the family truckster?

Sounds like a plan. Keep us up to date on how it goes.

The bottom line is what convinced my ex that being car-lite(her driving and me pedaling) was the way to go. At our poorest, it was the difference between being in the black or in the red.

One other thing that helped her is when she saw me riding on the street when I didn't know she could see me, and she saw I was riding in a safe manner.

Start off by talking to your kids. Most 16 year olds are responsible enough to pick up a 6 year old sibling after school. Really, most 12 year olds are responsible enough.

+1

I learned to ride the city bus when I was 12, and by the time I was 14 I rode it to/from all of my extracurricular activities. Of course, I also had to do things like my own laundry and get myself up for school every morning.

Sometimes I talk to co-workers and I could do things at 14 that their 17 year olds can't do. :rolleyes:

Not only will forcing your kids to take the bus save $$$, it will also teach them independence and confidence that will help them later in life. If you dropped two 14 year olds off in a neighboring city with some cash, the one that knows how to take the bus isn't going to sweat it. The one that has always been driven around by their parents is only going to know how to call for a ride.

My family recently went down to one car, and it has worked well for us. We have a newer minivan that we use to move the whole family, but my commutes, grocery store trips, etc. are all on the bike. Once a month my work requires me to travel for two days, and I have found it to be cheaper to rent a car for the necessary time rather than to insure a car that I don't drive for weeks at a time.

I thought I would offer an update since my last post. The commute is the easy part to do. The evenings with kids getting to soccer & choir practices, along with with hardly enough time to pull together a home cooked meal (we almost always cook from scratch) means there is a lot of pull to use the car in the evening. I've been bending to that convenience factor nearly every evening, but still have hopes for Spring when the bike paths will be clear enough for my kids.

My next concern will be how to get us from a regular bus stop with more than two bike riders hopping on a bus.

My next concern will be how to get us from a regular bus stop with more than two bike riders hopping on a bus.

try a folding bike - you can bring it right onto the bus with you. Also, with food, I like cooking too, but especially in the winter - try cooking soups & stews. They'll last you for several days (and usually taste better the day or 2 after). Put a little on top of rice & you're good. I just made some stew yesterday (took 4 hours) but I know it'll last the rest of the week, if I really want it to. And even though there's veggies in there, I can always go over to the store & pick up some carrotts or something for a side dish.

LCF heresy, but consider giving the car to the oldest child who is getting their license. Only thing is, all responsibilities also go with the car. Maybe they won't be able to do it immediately due to license age restrictions, but eventually, they drive siblings when they need to be shuttled around. They have to pay for insurance, maintenance, gas, and consumables. Once they get a full sense of what's involved, it could be a gentle nudge toward a car free lifestyle of their own.

LCF heresy, but consider giving the car to the oldest child who is getting their license. Only thing is, all responsibilities also go with the car. Maybe they won't be able to do it immediately due to license age restrictions, but eventually, they drive siblings when they need to be shuttled around. They have to pay for insurance, maintenance, gas, and consumables. Once they get a full sense of what's involved, it could be a gentle nudge toward a car free lifestyle of their own.

Haha, "nudge toward car free lifestyle...". I never thought of that.

Back in 1997 or so, a classmate of mine was given a pickup truck when she got her driver's license. Her parents paid for the insurance, but they made her pay for all her own gas, and this was one of those big 12-mile-per-gallon trucks. I got the impression she wasn't 100% grateful for the free truck. :o

LCF heresy, but consider giving the car to the oldest child who is getting their license. Only thing is, all responsibilities also go with the car. Maybe they won't be able to do it immediately due to license age restrictions, but eventually, they drive siblings when they need to be shuttled around. They have to pay for insurance, maintenance, gas, and consumables. Once they get a full sense of what's involved, it could be a gentle nudge toward a car free lifestyle of their own.

Interesting idea. I was thinking along the lines of giving the older child a cell phone as a reward for taking responsibility for the younger one. The cell phone would also contribute to the parent's peace of mind, I think. And it would assist in co-ordinating transportation plans for a carfree or carlite family.

LCF heresy, but consider giving the car to the oldest child who is getting their license. Only thing is, all responsibilities also go with the car. Maybe they won't be able to do it immediately due to license age restrictions, but eventually, they drive siblings when they need to be shuttled around. They have to pay for insurance, maintenance, gas, and consumables. Once they get a full sense of what's involved, it could be a gentle nudge toward a car free lifestyle of their own.
One of my biking influences is one of twins. His twin got his license first. Then mom had the brother do all this driving around. My friend saw this and decided not to get a drivers license. I would see him biking miles to his after school job at a gas station. My friend would rather have his freedom rather than share driving chores with his brother. I'm pretty sure it was a sibling rivalry thing going on, the one brother wanted to drive first then my friend refused to take the test to stick his brother with the extra chores.

The rest of the year, I'll burn my own calories for the full distance from Appleton to Neenah, WI and back.

I did my undergraduate at Lawrence. Reading this makes me nostalgic.

I was sold on the car free transition after reading Living Car Free,

Please send your wisdom...


Yea sounds like a great idea until you have to do it car free. You must really like a challenge at the more extreme types.

I suggest baby steps car lite. Fixing a flat tire would be one step. Getting rid of the second car is not to far away.
I bought my GF a bike rack I could meet her at points and then I could load my bike on her car or she could take me somewhere close to her route and drop me off.