Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - neck is sore and toes fall asleep

after about 5 or 10 miles my toes start fall asleep, time off the saddle either standing in the pedals or getting off the bike seams to fix the problem, I have an old Colnago saddle that is fairly narrow but very comfortable to me, I don't have any pain in the rear from it, but clearly it has something to do with my problem. Any suggestions?

Also after long rides my neck becomes incredibly sore the next day, any suggestions?

Also after long rides my neck becomes incredibly sore the next day, any suggestions? Try different things and see if they work. Hit yourself in the head with a hammer before and after riding, you won't notice your toes and neck so much.

Toes ... stop riding with your toes pointed down. You might need to lower your saddle a hair to accomplish that.

Neck ... raise your handlebars.

Toes ... stop riding with your toes pointed down. You might need to lower your saddle a hair to accomplish that.

Neck ... raise your handlebars.

+1

Yep.

I ain't no randonneur, and I don't know squat about electrolytes or sleeping in the saddle. But, I do know what hurts my neck, and I do ride long. Do what Machka says.

Took me a long time to finally raise my bars, as I liked the idea of getting super-aero in the drops, but that's just not as important as being comfortable when it comes to big miles.

Might try moving your cleats back on your shoes, too. Moves your leverage closer to your ankle, and you're less likely to inadvertantly start pointing your toes. (At least it helped me.)

You can see how high I've got my bars (an inch or so higher than saddle) on my Marinoni Sportivo in the photo at the bottom of this page (http://www.veloweb.ca/mybikes.html). I have also switched to "short and shallow" handlebars on this bike I use for my longest brevets. This allows me to spend more time in the drops without discomfort.

I have similar bar/saddle relationship on my Rivendell Bleriot (http://www.veloweb.ca/mybikepages/blerioso.html), achieved w/ long (Nitto Technomic) quill stem.

Also consider if you are getting beat up by hard, narrow tyres.

I must keep up neck and shoulder excercises if I am to ride pain free.

I do a lot of yoga, and usually one class is enough to get rid of the neck pain, until the next ride, I will def. try raising the bars, I think part of the problem is a bad habit of letting my shoulders ride up on my neck and not being conscious of stretching it out once in a while during a ride.

I ride with clips so moving cleats isn't an option for me, and I wouldn't want to lower the saddle too much as I was already thinking I needed to raise it a little, I have a new brooks B17 on the way I'll see if that makes a difference.

the bike I've been riding lately is an old Schwinn Sport Tourer, the tires are 1 1/8" and the tubes are actually covered with brittle hard wax, I guess this was some kind of old fashioned flat protection?!? I was feeling that it was riding kind of ruff compared to my other steel bikes, so maybe I'll switch out the tubes and tires for some 1 1/4"

I ride with clips so moving cleats isn't an option for me, and I wouldn't want to lower the saddle too much as I was already thinking I needed to raise it a little, I have a new brooks B17 on the way I'll see if that makes a difference.


If you're riding with clips, make sure you're wearing shoes with hard toes and stiff soles ... and you've really got to work at riding 'flat-footed' with those things. The 'scrape-the-mud-off-the-bottom-of-your-shoe' pedal stroke is not easy with clips because that motion has you pulling your foot out of the clip.

Go get a profession bike fitting!

To the OP:
If you are having these issues at 5 or 10 or 15 miles into your ride, you have a setup issue, or several. Not to bash professional bike fittings, or the people who perform them, or those who get good results therefrom, but in my experience they are a real hit or miss thing. I understand that if a person knows absolutely nothing short of squat about posturing for a specific purpose, but I've heard too many riders complain that their fitting didn't work or that they feel even more uncomfortable after having been fitted.

I've squared away at least a dozen riders just in the past year, who now believe I walk on water - it's that much better. So funny.

Simple things matter the most. Without exception, those riders I am reffering to were set up by youngsters who postured them en formulae . They end up coming on a longish ride with a group of us who go long, all tucked in like Lance. Chins on the stem, they wonder why their 45 and 50 year old necks, shoulders, wrists, and everything else is hurting.

My recipe for long ride comfort is: Bars about an inch above the saddle peak, saddle scooted forward until the lower back is arched, but the upper back is sort of straight. Yes, it's more upright, but we ain't racing.

Drop grips should point to the upper 1/4 of the rearwheel - not the hub. Ramps should be level. If the drop grips are not pointing to the upper part of the wheel, get bars that do because yours are too deep for comfortably dodging a headwind for long periods.

KOP is over-rated IMO. Worry about it only if it matters - you'll know.

Raise the saddle til you just sense your hips rocking as you pedal, then lower it til you just stop rocking. Your legs should be almost fully extended at the bottom of the stroke. The saddle will be in the ballpark and you can fine tune from there.

The age or brand or weight or tubing material of the bike you ride matters the least. The fit or size is what matters.

Sounds like the first symptoms of advanced Neopolitan Hepalitis E, a friend of mine ignored the symtpoms and after a long ride the ER chopped his toes...

Is toe box in your shoes wide enough?

I've experienced numbness due to more flexible shoe soles (on platform pedals) and overly tight shoe laces (in hiking boots).

Is toe box in your shoes wide enough?

Uh, what's a toe box? I'm going to assume that's just the part of the shoe where the toes are. I ride in a pair of sneakers, I've been meaning to get a pair of hard inserts for them but the rubber is fairly stiff, My shoes are def. not too tight or too narrow, I feel like this is mainly a saddle and saddle height issue, as soon as I stand up the piglets immediately feel a little better. I just got my brooks B17 and I've lowered it a little, and started being a lot more conscious of keeping my feet flat on the pedal, I will report back with results after a few long rides.

As far as the neck, I'm thinking the bike I'm on right now is a little big and I need to get some better riding habits and just condition it, my neck used to hurt during yoga as well.

Uh, what's a toe box? I'm going to assume that's just the part of the shoe where the toes are. I ride in a pair of sneakers, I've been meaning to get a pair of hard inserts for them but the rubber is fairly stiff, My shoes are def. not too tight or too narrow, I feel like this is mainly a saddle and saddle height issue, as soon as I stand up the piglets immediately feel a little better. I just got my brooks B17 and I've lowered it a little, and started being a lot more conscious of keeping my feet flat on the pedal, I will report back with results after a few long rides.

As far as the neck, I'm thinking the bike I'm on right now is a little big and I need to get some better riding habits and just condition it, my neck used to hurt during yoga as well.

When you ride with the sneakers, do your toes jam up against the toe clip cage? If so, you'll want to get a pair of shoes with a hard toe area to help keep your foot from jamming up against the toe clip cage.

I ride in a pair of sneakers.

Well, that explains the sore toes.


As far as the neck, I'm thinking the bike I'm on right now is a little big and I need to get some better riding habits and just condition it, my neck used to hurt during yoga as well.

Conditioning will help.

A bike on the large side is generally better than too small -- unless the top tube is too long, which stretched a rider out too much. Depending on geometry, a larger bike allows one to obtain higher handlebar position, relieving neck stress. Bets are that the neck issue is just due to handlebar to saddle height problem.

Well, that explains the sore toes.



Conditioning will help.

A bike on the large side is generally better than too small -- unless the top tube is too long, which stretched a rider out too much. Depending on geometry, a larger bike allows one to obtain higher handlebar position, relieving neck stress. Bets are that the neck issue is just due to handlebar to saddle height problem.

I wouldn't bet against ya.

I had lots of trouble with cycling shoes and feet going numb. Finally figured out my left foot is a half size bigger than my right.

Also, your feet swell when exercising, dancing, bike riding so make sure you've got some wiggle room in your shoes. Not enough to be sliding around (or you'll jam your toes in the front) but you'll want to be able to flex your toes.

You may want to consider moldable insoles for your shoes.

I'm agreeing with jcm (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=44902) and Randochap. Lots of little "tweaks" go into getting the right fit. And believe it or not your body "type" influences all of this. Do you have a shorter torso and are reaching far for the bars? That'll strain your neck. I rode 930 miles in 9 days and my left hand was numb for a month. However I knew that was due to a severed tendon injury and other surgeries done on that hand. Neck, back, right hand, feet, all fiine!

Since the original post I slapped on my new brooks saddle, lowered the saddle a hair, raised the bars as high as I could, wore slightly stiffer soled sneakers, and been trying to keep me feet level and my shoulders back away from my neck while occasionally glancing down at the road and...

pretty much no pain in the neck and I was 15 miles into a ride before my toes even started to get a little numb. I just got a slightly smaller touring bike so we'll see what that does this week, also I'd like to get some hard inserts for my shoes and I'll continue to work on my peddling technique.

Your toe numbness may be caused by spoon-sized mountain bike pedals, but if it's not that, and it's not just a matter of pedaling by pushing too much rather than spinning...

...then you are somehow pedaling with your toes too much. Saddle may be too high (thereby being forced to pedal on tip toes), feet too far forward on the pedals.

Sore neck problems may be caused by riding too upright, or by being too scrunched up. You need to be stretched out and leaning forward on a road bike, touring or otherwise. Paradoxically, raising the bars can actually be worse. They should neither be too high or too low. By playing with horizontal stem length, the best advice I can give is that you should end up with the proper stretch and 45 degree back angle with your handlebars about an inch lower than the saddle - not much higher or lower. And then, you should adjust your saddle so that you're not sitting too high and too far forward, as is the trend nowadays (it goes give an initial feeling of more power and speed, but it's not durable).

10-15 miles is short distance on a road/touring bike, not long distance. If you're having toe numbness and neck soreness after only 10 miles, you have to have some serious bike fit issues. I don't really believe in pro bike fittings much, but on the other hand, if you can't do it yourself, you've got to start somewhere. All the old rules of thumb for bike fitting were right. They were not intended for racing, but for riding.

By playing with horizontal stem length, the best advice I can give is that you should end up with the proper stretch and 45 degree back angle with your handlebars about an inch lower than the saddle - not much higher or lower.

With hands on the hoods, drops or tops of the bars?

Try moving your usual foot position closer to the heel. Power loss seemed negligible, and it cleared up all my toe numbness issues.

Since the original post I slapped on my new brooks saddle, lowered the saddle a hair, raised the bars as high as I could, wore slightly stiffer soled sneakers, and been trying to keep me feet level and my shoulders back away from my neck while occasionally glancing down at the road and...

pretty much no pain in the neck and I was 15 miles into a ride before my toes even started to get a little numb. I just got a slightly smaller touring bike so we'll see what that does this week, also I'd like to get some hard inserts for my shoes and I'll continue to work on my peddling technique.

If you are using platform pedals with running type shoes, you should consider the largest pedal you can buy and definitely go get some low-top All-Terrain type hiking sneakers. Look for the stiffest sole available. I have used Sketcher's for years. They're cheap and as long as you don't use them for every day walking, they'll last at least two years on a bike. They have roomier toe ares and are quite suitable as bike shoes. You don't want your toes or arches bending over the pedal at all. Any hiker type sneaker will do.