Touring - Can I upgrade my roadbike for touring? Please help an aspiring tourer.

Like other lurkers on the board, I dream about being able to tour on a bicycle someday. I started saving for a touring bike a couple months ago, but the piggy bank is slow to fill due to my current financial state. I searched this board for some insight and I came across this old thread (The Ultimate Bike Build).
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=403924&highlight=commuter+tour+world&page=2
This thread got me thinking and I' thought I should try a short tour (two day tour maybe) this coming spring, and see how it goes. If I like it, I might go all out for a touring bike build or buy a new one.

So, lets begin, this is what I got,
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/DVC45/IMG_0518.jpg
Its a Scwhinn '91 Paramount (Japanamount to others :) ).

If I upgrade to a triple chainring and use a trailer to carry my stuff's will its rear axle hold up? There's no provision for racks on this bike, so I think a trailer is my only option (no?). My main concern is, of course, durability. Can this bike hold up? Should I continue saving for a "True Touring Bike" or continue on with what I got?
So far, I have a brooks saddle and I have converted the tires to 700X28 Conti Gator Skin. Surprisingly enough, It fits! As for fenders, I know there are clip on one's but, maybe I'll just go without it.
Thanks in advance for any helpful advice!

And..oh..please take it easy on me, I'm new to this whole touring thing. :o

Yes, that old Paramount will take it. Looking at the above photo, if the seat height is correct for you then the bike might be a little large. On the other hand, if your reach with that long stem is OK, then obviously you're built with a long upper torso (think lower primate) :) and so forget the idea of a too large frame. There are ways to attach racks if you want even without the standard braze ons. You'll do great!

You don't need an expensive bike to do a tour. However, unless you're good at bike mechanics, it may not wind up being cost-effective to use this particular bike. You'll need a new crankset, a new BB, a new front derailleur, and it'd be a good idea to get new chainrings and a new chain. That also means that if the cassette is worn down, it will be a good time to replace that as well.

I'd get an estimate for the upgrades, and compare it to a low-end hybrid or a used road bike that already has a triple.

Yup, the reach is a bit long for me, no problem with the height. I'll buy a shorter reach stem for it when I have the $$ for trailer. I'de rather pay for shipping once. Please point me to where to get those rack attachments.
Thanks!

You don't need an expensive bike to do a tour. However, unless you're good at bike mechanics, it may not wind up being cost-effective to use this particular bike. You'll need a new crankset, a new BB, a new front derailleur, and it'd be a good idea to get new chainrings and a new chain. That also means that if the cassette is worn down, it will be a good time to replace that as well.

I'd get an estimate for the upgrades, and compare it to a low-end hybrid or a used road bike that already has a triple.

Thanks! The bike is in pristine condition. I got it from a friend who only put <25mi on it then kept it inside the garage since '92.
Okay, so, Trailer, new BB, Cranks and Deraileur...hhmmmnn...now a new bike is starting to sound good (slap self and try to focus). :)

You may want to do a true cost comparison between the cost of upgrading components plus the cost of trailer vs. the cost of a low price touring bike like the Windsor from bikesdirect.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm

Sometimes upgrading is not as cost effective as you might think. Even if you upgrade some components the others will be old and may cause an ongoing need for more upgrades. Your bike can work but is it really cost effective?

Good luck.

Go here (http://www.thetouringstore.com/TUBUS/Fly/FLY%20PAGE.htm) and check out the Tubus Fly with the attachment kit for the quick release. Very expensive but probably a good solution. Go light and change your freewheel to one with the biggest rear cog your RD will handle. That way it won't cost a lot and if you are in decent shape you will get up the hills without a triple. If it is a cassette, you can get an old used MTB RD and an MTB cassette with wide spacing and the same number of cogs that is on the one you have now. If you are planning on carrying a lot of stuff you will need a trailer or another bike IMO. If you can travel light I think your bike with smallish rear bags and a Camelbak Mule on your back could be a fast and fun way to go.

You don't need an expensive bike to do a tour. However, unless you're good at bike mechanics, it may not wind up being cost-effective to use this particular bike. You'll need a new crankset, a new BB, a new front derailleur, and it'd be a good idea to get new chainrings and a new chain. That also means that if the cassette is worn down, it will be a good time to replace that as well.

I'd get an estimate for the upgrades, and compare it to a low-end hybrid or a used road bike that already has a triple.

I replaced crankset, BB and front derailleur on my commuter this summer for $130. Wasn't top of the line stuff, but better than new hybrid quality and I've put about 2000 miles on it since. You can purchase a cassette and chain for ~$50.

I don't think you can get much roadworthy (new hybrid or low end road bike) in that price range. Unless the wheels need replacing...

Tubus racks are nice but I'm doubting you want to spend that much in getting started. This option is much less expensive and although I can't vouch for this exact model, I've found most Axiom products a good value.

http://www.axiomgear.com/images/product/racks/regular/171379-01.jpg

http://www.axiomgear.com/product/racks/rear_low_profile_aero_racks/product.php?id=142

http://www.ebikestop.com/axiom_streamliner_road_rack_black-RK6615.php
Robow, +1, bought here the Axiom rack seems to be a very much better deal for this application than the Tubus Fly.

Yep.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/Perfect%20ride%201-1-09/Colors.jpg

It is not absolutely necessary to have a triple if you are a strong rider. I did the west coast with a guy using only a double and he just flew up every hill, said he preferred it that way.

Okay, I went to Performance Bike near me and I had them install the lowest gear cassette without having to replace my RD. I also bought the Campus pedal (clipless one side, platform on the other). Next move will be to install a 42t chainring to replace the 52t I have on the bike. I'm not a strong rider at all, I'm hoping this works out so I won't have to change the BB and cranks. I know I could train to overcome this issue but, well...its snowing heavily here and its too cold to ride outside. I hate indoor training. ' can't wait for spring.

I'm still contemplating on the racks vs trailer option. The Axiom looks good. The Tubus is pricey, but maybe worth it (?). Nashbar has a trailer for not too much money. I need to look up reviews on this.
Thanks to all for your input and please keep it coming.

Do you know a reasonably priced frame builder in your area? I'm converting an early 80's Specialized Sequoia into a tourer. The bike already has triple cage mounts on it for water bottles, but I'm having a local frame builder add canti bosses and extra eyelets to the fork and dropouts for $80. If you can find a someone in your area, you might be able to customize your frame a bit inexpensively so you can use regular racks and not have to buy a trailer.

You can tour on anything but does that bike have eyelets for attaching a rack?
I would look for a used bike from the 80's. I bought three touring bikes and they ranged from $30 to $75 dollars. And one came with 4 panniers and a handlebar bag.

I don't see any eyelets. If it was me my first choice would be to get a Bob trailer, change the crankset to a triple with a low granny - at least 24, if not 22 - and get a wide-range cassette. Even if I was young again, I wouldn't tour with a double. I did that in my 20's and it wasn't fun. If I tried that now I'd damage my knees.

Another worry when carrying a load is breaking spokes - especially if you're big (although, from the looks of this bike, you're not.) The axle isn't the concern with a Bob - they give you a dedicated skewer to use. But a poor quality hub might be problematic, or an inferior rim, weak spokes, or improper spoke tension. Putting your weight on a Bob trailer takes a little of the stress off of your rear wheel, but since you're not putting any weight on the front wheel, not that much. There's another kind of trailer, called an ExtraWheel (not ExtraCycle - that's something else), that puts all the weight on the trailer's wheel. I'd at least look into it. I weigh 205 lbs. and carry a big load. I broke a lot of spokes on my first big tour. Since then I spare no expense or effort when it comes to making sure my rear wheel is as strong and well-constructed as possible. Since I've put this kind of effort into it I haven' broken a spoke.

You'd probably be best off if you bought a new touring bike - like a Surly LHT for $1050 - but then you'd still need camping gear, and a way to carry everything. It isn't cheap to get a nice, complete touring rig, but once you do it will last for years. On the other hand, you can successfully tour on just about anything, including your Paramount, and have a great time. Good luck, and enjoy!

I would stay away from the nashbar trailer. it is flimsy and the attachment system is terrible. I use one for light local stuff but it is not stable enough nor strong enough to tour with. The skewer that comes with it is very light weight and soft metal, making the threads strip easily, and the pins that connect it lose the bearings that hold things in place.

You can tour on anything, I started on an older bike that I had to kludge some racks onto, decided that I liked it and have slowly built up a collection or touring bikes on the cheap.
There is no shame in walking up a hill if your gearing is not low enough.

Thanks again folks!

I'm keeping an eye out for vintage MTB on Craigslist, hopefully a good deal shows up before spring. I'm also snooping around for a deal on a triple crank and FD.

No, I don't know of any frame builder. I might have to ask around for that. Honestly, I think I should really just get another bike for touring.

The Extrawheel seems really nice. It's definitely a candidate on my future buy list.

How about if I use a 42t and 24t chainring combo, will it give me better low gear range?

+1 Find a vintage MTB, will be much cheaper than any other option. You should be able to find one for $100 or less for a good one.

Don't bugger up your Paramount, it has some real value (and should continue to go up in value from here).

+1 Find a vintage MTB, will be much cheaper than any other option. You should be able to find one for $100 or less for a good one.

Don't bugger up your Paramount, it has some real value (and should continue to go up in value from here).

Funny, someone told me that too. Well, its not a Waterford, so according to some, its really not that of a collector piece (I'm not a collector anyway).
Weighing everything in, ' seems like a bike build or a new touring bike is what I really need, so just I'll keep looking and saving. Its still quite sometime before spring comes anyway.

What do you folks think about '08 Novara Randonee vs '08 Novara Safari as tour bikes? Also, my local Performance still has a small (my size) Schwinn World Tour Commuter for $650. Is this any good?
Thanks again.

If you're north of Chicago and not planning on flying anywhere, there aren't really any hills within less than a few weeks' range that you're likely to need a triple for.

I would like to know how the 700x28 tires are working out. My lbs put a 700x28 on my Masi road bike, just to see if they would fit. They looked fine to me. But, then my lbs guy said he would not recommend running them. I took his word for it, but have always wondered how they would have worked out. Let me know your experience. Thanks.

I would like to know how the 700x28 tires are working out. My lbs put a 700x28 on my Masi road bike, just to see if they would fit. They looked fine to me. But, then my lbs guy said he would not recommend running them. I took his word for it, but have always wondered how they would have worked out. Let me know your experience. Thanks.

I have only ridden it outside the Performance Bike parking lot to test the newly installed rear cogs/cassette. So far it seems to be okay.

' found a good specimen for a tourer conversion. :)

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/DVC45/IMG_0820.jpg

Now, where do I start? :)

Where do you start? By inspecting, and ideally overhauling that red Trek.

Main bearings - rear wheel, front wheel, headset, bottom bracket - are they properly adjusted and without play, do they all turn well without a gritty feeling? Ideally, you'd overhaul all the bearings by opening, cleaning and repacking them.

Wheels - are they true? Is the rim surface worn evenly and still flat enough for braking? Are the spokes evenly tensioned? Can you turn the nipples or have they seized?

Brakes, shifters, derailleurs, cables, cable housings - do they all work well? If the housings or cables look work or rusted, replace them.

Then you add a front rack or a basket, a rear rack and full fenders. Maybe an additional bottle cage.

And you go touring!

Thanks hernick. I know I have to do those, I'm just happy with my $30 find, so I posted. :)
Saturday will definitely be a busy bike overhauling day, no, I might even start at midnight on Friday when I get off work. :)

Good luck on your project! Should be a fun build.

' did a trial run yesterday. Fully loaded (30lbs). It felt very stable, though I was only going 12mph tops on flat road. I'll try going to my local bike trail and go for a 12 miler and do some erratic turns and swerves and see how she handles (if only this rain would go away). So far all is good. Total $$ spent so far, $150. I know I still have to buy real touring panniers. These are just for commuting.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/DVC45/IMG_0924.jpg

With the drop bar installed
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/DVC45/IMG_0928.jpg


Thanks again for all the help!

Shwe-e-e-et!

You could jury rig another bottle cage on to the seat tube with some hose clamps.

I'm impressed! You've come up with one of the best finds, and nicest low-cost conversions I've seen here. I don't know anything about the Trek 900 except what I see in the photo, but what I see says it's ideally suited for your purpose.

Even between the two photos above (the rise-bar version and the drop-bar version), you've obviously put a lot of work into it. Brakes, stem, shifters.... it's a nice job, and I bet by the end of it you'll know your bike inside out.

I'll just chip in with a few things I'd change.... when the $$ comes available. This is personal preference, but from a lot of time on the road. Of course, a lot depends on how you intend to use it -- for two-day tours around Illinois, you wouldn't need all of this.

-- Slicks for tires. Or at least narrow, non-knobby. It'll make a huge difference on pavement.

-- "Traditional" strutted fenders instead of the clip-ons. Anything that doesn't bolt on solid will find a way to work lose or drop into the wheels on a long tour. Besides.... you've got all the braze-ons, I'd use 'em!

-- Find a way to add one or two water bottle cages.

-- I assume you're gonna swap the pedals from your Paramount? If not, at least get pedals/straps...... it'd be a nightmare to have a foot slip loose on a bumpy downhill.

-- Kickstand = good, in my book. But the bottom-bracket mounted kind are frustrating. I've found that they allow a loaded bike to pivot. Worse, when you want to check your drivetrain off the bike, it blocks the pedals.

-- Can't really see the cassette (freewheel?) but it looks like a 28T or lower. If you expect hills or headwinds, I'd swap in lower gears (and/or a small granny). It looks like the derailleur is a long cage, so it should handle it.

-- Might as well get a front rack (knock-offs are under $20).... you've got all the braze-ons! Yep, your current panniers aren't touring models, but if they're big enough and don't give you problems, go ahead and use 'em on tour. And save up for the name brands.

No way is this meant to be critical -- you've got a stellar example of a mtb conversion, something that goes as gospel around here. And low cost, at that.

I have a Nishiki from the same timeframe (1988) and it's very similar, both in the frame and in the original components on your 900. My Nishiki is an excellent touring bike and I've used it for thousands of miles of loaded touring -- that's the way they made 'em back then.

-- Mark

I was really skeptical when I bought the fenders, but I bought it anyway. I'll exchange it for a Planet Bike full fender set, come Monday.
I'm currently on the hunt for a nice and sturdy rear wheel (cassette type), as the spokes on mine are rusted. Next up (next month?) would be Brooks saddle, tires, front rack and panniers.
Thanks again for the tips. Please keep 'em coming!

Here we go again, all the reasons that this individual must buy a new, touring specific bike rather than just getting on the road with what he has. DVC, you first need to decide just where you are going to tour. If you aren't going to the Rockies then you may not need to do anything to the bike. You ask if the bike will hold up. Any bike will hold up, depending on how you care for it, how far you are going, and what route you are taking. Are you going to stay on paved roads? Are you staying in the U.S.? If you are staying in the U.S. on the paved roads and perform basic maintenance, your bike will do just fine. Then you need to decide how much stuff you are going to carry. Maybe you don't need a trailer at all. Maybe you can do with rear panniers, a rack bag, and maybe a bar bag.
It is good that you are beginning your planning with an open mind. Just don't get overwhelmed with all of the negative posts here about why your bike won't work. It can work just fine.

DVC45 well done.:)

I'm a big fan of the DIY tour conversions, looks like a decent touring rig. I'd probably go for slick tires instead of those quasi-knobbies, or at least put the small, slicker tire on the rear and the knobby on front, it would be more efficient that way and you'd rather have the knobby on front for grip during turns and braking rather than on the rear.

The pedals will most likely do as they are, but I'd probably put some grippy BMX pedals on there.

Overall, not too shabby. Have fun touring!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3106/3172402342_8fc618a879.jpg?v=0thought I would throw a pic of my treck Antelope MBT conversion at you. I did a 1400 miler on this. It was good on the rough trails. If I could find an Antelope in a larger frame(this was all I had for a rough tour at the time)I would ride it in heartbeat.

Just realized that there was a second page... nice setup.

deleted by me for being stupid and not reading the second page.