Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - ID help please! 70's Paris Sport 12-speed

I've searched and read a lot of info here and on the web about this bike. I have gone from knowing nothing to knowing some basics, but still I'd like more. You all seem to really know your stuff, so here I am asking for help. :)

This bike belongs to my husband. It's been used and is rough, but for the most part it's all original (we think) except for the seat and tires. He won it in a raffle at a new bike store opening in Warminster, PA around the mid-70's. He rode it off and on. Rode it to work a lot for most of the 90's but it's been in the garage untouched for the last 10 years.

Anyway, I was hoping some of you could shed some light on who made the frame and/or where it came from. Any additional information about other aspects of the bike would be greatly appreciated!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee130/extrapictures4u/IMG_1479.jpg

I tried to take pictures of all the points you might need to see. If there's anything specific I should add, just let me know. Camera is handy and the bike sits nearby.

More pictures here:

http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee130/extrapictures4u/

Thanks! :thumb:

20 views and no one can help me? Did I commit a message board cardinal sin? Post in the wrong place? If I did, please forgive me, it was unintentional. I admit I registered just to get educated about this bike. It seemed like the best place at the time. If I need correcting, do so. I can handle it. ;)

I can find nothing on a Paris Sport with Vitus 788 markings. Gitane, yes, but not Paris Sport. Does the Vitus sticker just describe the tubing used to make the frame, or is Vitus the maker of the frame?

I have figured out that most of the components are French. Huret, CLB, Lyotard. My husband thinks the whole bike was made in France, but what I've read about Paris Sport says no. Thus, more confusion for me.

My husband wants me to sell it and I'm trying to do my homework before I list it. I know it's in rough shape but it must be worth something to someone. That's what I'm trying to determine, along with some vital information to put in the description. Husband says the bike shop owner was extremely excited about this bike when they had it. It had a place of honor in the display window, and they asked if they could keep it a bit longer after he won the raffle.


Any help would be appreciated.

No you did nothing wrong. It is just not a common bike. I have been playing with bikes for 50 years and never seen or heard of one until today. Rogr

Thanks for the reply. I guess my expectations were a little too high.

Let me shift gears (no pun intended ;) ) here a minute. Looking at this bike, is it worth anything to part it out instead? Is there a market for anything on it, or is the whole thing just too beat to be worth my time?

The bike IMO opinion is not worth parting out......Judging by the components I'd say it's a mid/entry level frame. Paris Sport was a house brand and the frames were made by a number of builders....Both in house (which I doubt yours was) and by builders abroad. My guess is that it's French judging by the Vitus tubing sticker. Huret derailleurs kinda point that way too....

Some info here:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Paris_Sport.htm

I've searched and read a lot of info here and on the web about this bike. I have gone from knowing nothing to knowing some basics, but still I'd like more. You all seem to really know your stuff, so here I am asking for help. :)

This bike belongs to my husband. It's been used and is rough, but for the most part it's all original (we think) except for the seat and tires. He won it in a raffle at a new bike store opening in Warminster, PA around the mid-70's. He rode it off and on. Rode it to work a lot for most of the 90's but it's been in the garage untouched for the last 10 years.

Anyway, I was hoping some of you could shed some light on who made the frame and/or where it came from. Any additional information about other aspects of the bike would be greatly appreciated!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee130/extrapictures4u/IMG_1479.jpg

I tried to take pictures of all the points you might need to see. If there's anything specific I should add, just let me know. Camera is handy and the bike sits nearby.

More pictures here:

http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee130/extrapictures4u/

Thanks! :thumb:

IIRC, Vic Fraysee ran an importing company whose house-label bikes were "Paris-Sport." This looks like a lower end model, but Paris-Sport also marketed frames built by the legendary Spanish builder Fransceco Cuevas (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Cuevas_main.htm). They also contracted with the Argentinian company Saavedra to produce a group of Campagnolo copy components under the "Paris-Sport" label.

I also seem to recall that Vic's brother Mike was a racer and a coach for the US Olympic cycling teams back in the 70s and 80s.

The son of the father-son business that imported/sold these bikes, Mike Fraysse, is an eBay seller. You might try to contact him:
http://myworld.ebay.com/mike_fraysse

If what you want is an estimate of what the bike is worth, this forum has a subforum "Vintage Value Inquires" {sic** just for that purpose. I'd repost there.

Thanks for the replies.

I have read everything there is to read on the 'net about Paris Sport. It ain't much, and what there is doesn't help me much. What I have concluded is that this probably wasn't built by any of the more famous builders that built frames that ended up Paris Sport bikes. At least I can't find any of the tell-tale markings that would confirm that. I was hoping for a name to attach to it.

I will try to contact Mike through eBay though. I didn't know that piece of information, thanks for that.

I might try the values subforum, also. Mostly I'd just like to be sure that it's worth enough to warrant my time to list on eBay or not. If not, it'll probably go back into the garage for a time when my husband needs a new 'project'. Right now his project is a couple of jetskis, and by the looks of the garage, that project won't be wrapped up any time soon. :rolleyes:

Thanks again.

I actually have a small and very modest looking brochure for Paris Sport bicycles. I'll scan the few pages I have and pass them along here. It looks like it was printed on a single rather crudely typewritten sheet of 8-1/2" x 11" paper and simply folded in the center. It contains no flashy color photos, mostly just rather skechy data on some of the basic models available. The following image is the blurry black & white photo shown on the "cover":


PARIS SPORT BROCHURE - FRONT COVER

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3314/3193813892_53baffdeb5.jpg

Click here to see Pages 2 & 3 : http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3494/3193817004_21bc9a088e_o.jpg ... and ... Page 4 : http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3500/3193818044_356a8ff126_o.jpg

I also did a bit of research when I has first stumbled upon this odd document and had printed one old reference to the bikes which was posted in the Classic Rendezvous discussion group archives. So, fortunately, I was able to easily pull up the thread in a topic search. So now, the following link will direct you to several different posts in the brief thread which contains a great deal of information... and maybe a bit of rumor a little popular myth or legend, as well. :rolleyes:

http://search.bikelist.org/query.asp?SearchString=A%20long%20reminiscence%20Re%3A%20Paris%20Sport

The very first lengthy bit by Mike Fabian of San Francisco is very interesting, but you should also wander through the other comments - several of which are written by some very notable and respected gents in vintage bike circles, from long time collectors to frame builders and shop owners from back in those days.

Hope this is all a bit useful in your quest.:o

Apart from that, to me, your bike looks like a pretty serious racing bike in its geometry - with short chainstays and tight rear wheel clearance behind the seat tube. The fork also looks very straignt and thin as you would also find on an older "racing" bike (rather than a mid-level "Sport-Touring" bike of the day. And, the brazed-on rear brake cable guides on the top tube look later than mid-70s... at least they would be rare on a lower tier mass produced French road bike from back then. The crankset looks a bit newer as well. At a glance I would have guessed it's age as closer to around 1980-ish. So, if it is truly as early as your hubby recalls, this would not be a typical cheap 1970s French bike at all... in spite of the very modestly priced components. :thumb:

While perhaps of little immediate value compared to some of the more famous brands, and bikes with expensive vintage components, it could be rather a wolf in sheep's clothing. Perhaps a good candidate for someone to refinish in a nicely done powdercoat finish and built up as a nice vintage racing bike with some classier components. :innocent:

your Paris Sport was built by french manufacturer Cycles Andre Bertin and I'd guess it's from the late 70's .Paris Sport brought in Bertin framesets with racing, touring and sport geometries and spec'd them at various equipment levels-yours being a serious entry/mid level racing bike. very nice.

Boy you guys are good !

According to the vintage Trek site, Huret used open dating, so I would look for date codes on the derailleurs. What brand is the crankset? The crank arms should have date codes as well. You might also find open dating on seat post and handlebar stem.

Wow!! Thank you all SO MUCH for that information!

The more I learn about this bike the more I hesitate to sell it. It's pretty cool. :) Our thoughts originally were that it was just going to waste in our garage, and that someone would appreciate it more and hopefully restore it, or at least make it useable again.

As far as a date on the Huret parts, I cleaned some grime off the back side of the derailleur and it's stamped "Made in France" and the number "0582". Would that be a date, as in May '82? If so, my husband is way off on the date. He said mid '70's because he thought he got that bike before he got his drivers license. '82 would have been well after that. But, he's been known to be wrong before. ;) '82 would make match what's been suggested here in this thread.

I do appreciate all the input from this community!

That bike is a pretty decent machine. Not top-of-the-line, but definitely lots of bang-for-the-buck in its day (and today, too, for that matter).

Vitus tubing was sort of under-rated. Reynolds and Columbus were the top names then, and they deserved their good reputations. But Vitus was no slouch, and it tended to get lost in the shuffle, at least in the US. Bertin was (and may still be) a major French builder of frames - everything from bike-boom lowish-end specials to top-end race-worthy stuff.

Based on the Vitus tubing, the clearances and apparent geometry of the frame, and the good-but-not-top-of-the-line componentry, my guess is that this was meant as an entry-level racing bike, with a tight, stiff frame and serviceable but upgradable parts. I bet it is a fun bike to ride when it's all spiffed up and tuned up. It certainly deserves to be ridden. Paris-Sport was well known as a big supporter of road bikes and road racing, and I doubt that they'd spec a crappy machine.

0582 sounds like the date. Look for codes on other parts for confirmation. Mid 70s entry level bikes were usually 5 speed, not six. So that is a sign it is more likely late 70s/early 80s.

For it's day, with that tight racing geometry, I can easily see why that ended up in a window. Now it's a piece of esoteric bicycling history. Restore! Restore! Restore!

Happy Trails!

Sheldon Brown has a bit of info about Paris-Sport here:

http://sheldonbrown.com/vrbn-o-z.html#parissport

I thought it was later than mid-70s. Looks like a mid-range bike, but the seat stay treatment really makes it look like a cheap bike. A friend's father knew the Fraysees and conned him out of a minor sponsorship for our club. So I had some Starnord jerseys.

As I understood, Paris Sports were a sort of house brand built by several different manufacturers.
I'm supprised no one's popped up with better info.
Bicycle Restoration has a link to the Paris Sport brand.
I owned one (cottered cranks and all)I bought from Hike and Bike in Buffalo NY circa 1970.
Bicycle_Restoration (a yahoo group has some fairly knowledgeable folks as well.

Bumping my thread for a bit more help, please. Initially, after my research, we thought we would keep this bike and restore it. My husband has decided he does not have the time or motivation to restore this bike after all, and so I'm going to list it on eBay hoping someone else will want it as a project bike.

What I need now is information on how to measure the bike so potential bidders have the information they need regarding it's size. Can anyone tell me how and what to measure?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Bike is probably either a 23 or 25 inch frame, I would guess 25 inch. Measure the length of the seat tube (bike frame) from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the top tube.

Don't be surprised if you don't get much out of ebay. ebay tends to do better with hot brands and higher end bikes. I see bikes like this one doing better on Craigs List.

I have bought bikes similar to yours on ebay for $20 to $30 range. I picked them up to avoid shipping charges. Shipping bikes can cost $60 m6o $70, so it creates a threshold on bikes (a person bidding $30 is looking at it as a bid of $100). So it cuts/eliminates much of the bidding.

On Craigs List, you might be able to get $125 to $150, I would change out the bar tape first ($5 do it yourself job). On ebay, I doubt if you would get more than $50.

Thanks for the info. I'll measure it tomorrow in the daylight.

I'm not expecting a lot, but I was hoping to get a bit more than 30 bucks. I've spent a heck of a lot of time on this thing. Shoulda just sent it to Goodwill or the Salvation Army, I guess. *sigh*

I could try Craigslist first. I've sold stuff on that before.