Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Low spoke count wheels and broken spokes

My bike came with shimano WH-r500 wheels (cheap shimano wheels) with low spoke count (20 front and 24 rear). One day I will break a spoke on these things and was wondering how hard of a time I would have getting home if I broke one of them.

I am also looking into Fiberfix (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fiberfix.htm) as an emergency repair solution. Anyone have any experience with them?

If you are randonneuring with that bike, perhaps a good set of 32-spoke wheels will put your mind at ease.

Until then, consider that a broken spoke is almost certainly going to be in the rear. Carry a spoke wrench and you'll most likely be able to true up the rim enough so it clears the stays. You can open the brake caliper, or remove it altogether, if need be and just use the front brake.

If you can install a drive side spoke without removing the cassette (usually not) then you could carry a spare spoke for each side taped to your seat stay.

The Fiberfix spoke also works fine.

I broke a spoke on my 24 spoke rear wheel and it was un-ridable -- so out of true that I couldn't open the brake wide enough for the wheel to spin.

Fiberfix spokes are commonly used by touring cyclists, I've heard they work great. I personally don't carry one when riding my road bike, but I do on tour, since the extra weight on the bike is much harder on the wheels.

I've been riding Rolfs for 10 years on my rando bike and 32 spoke wheels on my rain bike. Never broken a spoke. 160 lbs. and a very fast descender. You won't be able to straighten a wheel enough to ride the bike if you break a spoke, although Fiberfix are supposed to work great.

I have broken a spoke on my Reynolds Alta Race rear wheel (24 spoke 2 cross drive side, radial non-drive). I was on the 5 freeway to boot. I was luckily able to open the brakes wide enough to get off the freeway and then 15 miles down the road to a shop that would work on my wheel. The first shop said they were too busy. I was 70 miles from home at the time, real nice.

Yes my low spoke count is a concern of mine. One that I have not remedied as I don't want to spend the money. I fully expect to look back one day and realize my cheapness is foolish. :)

I've got low spoke count wheels on my commuter of all things. Until recently, it was also my Rando (only) bike. I was worried about the wheels too, so bought the Fiberfix spoke to carry. I tried it out in the comfort of my living room, and I'm fairly confident that it will work. I didn't leave it on to ride with though, just went through a rough truing exercise to be sure I could make it work.

On my next bike, I did opt for 32 spoke wheels though. I still carry that fiberfix spoke though. Never know who might need it.

Steve

Low spoke count wheels are great if you have a team car and your paycheck depends on you getting to the finish ahead of the other guy. That doesn't describe very many randos.

As a counterpoint to the horror stories of unrideable boutique wheels when a spoke breaks, I was riding a mountainous 200k a couple years back on my (probably 28 lb) commuter bike, with 36 spoke wheels and freewheel rear hub. Just past the halfway point, a spoke on the drive side broke. I stopped and spun the wheel to see how far out of true it was. It still cleared the brake pads, so I finished the ride w/o fixing it. IIRC, that was my second fastest 200k to date. So much for "inferior, obsolete technology".

SP
Bend, OR

Update: I decided to sign up for a wheelbuilding class at a local shop. I am going to build a rear 32 spoke rear wheel with a budget of between 150-200 for parts. Will be going out this weekend to price out my options.

Mavic Open Sport or Open Pro rims, Velocity Aerohead, Dyad, Fusion rims, Sun CR-18 rims. Shimano hubs, 105 or Ultegra. DT Swiss 14 gauge spokes. I believe you can get any of these in 32 or 36 hole.

I have the WH-500 wheels on my road bike and they've been good to me but I don't have to rely on them on brevets, touring, etc. I've got wheels made with the Open Sports, Aeroheads, and CR-18 rims and so far, so good.

Mavic Open Sport or Open Pro rims, Velocity Aerohead, Dyad, Fusion rims, Sun CR-18 rims. Shimano hubs, 105 or Ultegra. DT Swiss 14 gauge spokes. I believe you can get any of these in 32 or 36 hole.

I have the WH-500 wheels on my road bike and they've been good to me but I don't have to rely on them on brevets, touring, etc. I've got wheels made with the Open Sports, Aeroheads, and CR-18 rims and so far, so good.

I was looking most at Mavic open pros or Dt swiss 1.1 with 105 or Ultegra (probably 105 unless prices are similar). But at this point I am just going to walk into the shop and see what they have. Unless of course anyone has any better ideas...

The Wh-500s have been good to me so far. 2500 miles on them with no truing needed other than the initial tension/true check. However, I do not expect them to make it through another season. If I am lucky they will end up with between 5-8 thousand miles on them by the end of next year. I don't expect them to make it through that many miles without at least breaking a spoke.

Update: I decided to sign up for a wheelbuilding class at a local shop. I am going to build a rear 32 spoke rear wheel with a budget of between 150-200 for parts. Will be going out this weekend to price out my options.

You can save a lot of $$$ building your own wheels. Personally I'm a fan of old, but quality used hubs. For example I picked up some 32 hole 8 speed era (7400 series) Dura Ace hubs on eBay. A 10 speed ultegra cassette fits perfectly on the freehub body (12t is the smallest). I repacked them, laced to new Velocity rims and have happily ridden thousands of miles on them for just under $200.

Even with 32/36 spoke wheels, still worth it to carry a Fiberfix. It weighs about an ounce and will help you get home without trashing the wheel. I hit a stick on my last permanent and broke a spoke. After a few minutes installing Fiberfix and adjusting, I had the wheel trued up with practically no wobble and rode the remaining 90 miles. It seems like it's a bad idea to ride a wheel with a wobble for any distance, because you're putting weird stresses on the remaining spokes, and possibly making the rim "set" out of true. I don't know if these concerns are truly valid, but I'd rather just carry that Fiberfix and not worry.

I You won't be able to straighten a wheel enough to ride the bike if you break a spoke,

I have done it a number of times. It's why I carry a tool that includes a spoke wrench. That's especially important if you have a frame with tight tire clearance at the bottom bracket.

Be sure that your tool's spoke wrench will work on your wheels. The R500s I own use large spoke nipples and they are in the hub and not the rim so they are harder to get to (they are older wheels from 2002 or so). Spoke wrenches for these are not common. My experience with these wheels is that they are heavy and the front is very flexy, but they are sturdy.

You can save a lot of $$$ building your own wheels. Personally I'm a fan of old, but quality used hubs. For example I picked up some 32 hole 8 speed era (7400 series) Dura Ace hubs on eBay. A 10 speed ultegra cassette fits perfectly on the freehub body (12t is the smallest). I repacked them, laced to new Velocity rims and have happily ridden thousands of miles on them for just under $200.

I just found a set of FH-5500 105 hubs. They are the previous generation hubs to the current 105s. I am probably going to pull the trigger on those. If I get lucky I might be able to get my build down to 100.

I was looking most at Mavic open pros or Dt swiss 1.1 with 105 or Ultegra (probably 105 unless prices are similar). But at this point I am just going to walk into the shop and see what they have. Unless of course anyone has any better ideas...

The Wh-500s have been good to me so far. 2500 miles on them with no truing needed other than the initial tension/true check. However, I do not expect them to make it through another season. If I am lucky they will end up with between 5-8 thousand miles on them by the end of next year. I don't expect them to make it through that many miles without at least breaking a spoke.

I'd look at the Mavic Open Pro with Ultegra hubs. I picked up a set from Performance Bike for less than $200. Doubt you can build them for much cheaper. Had to take them in and have the retentioned, trued and stress relieved, but that didn't cost much. Great set of wheels.

i learned my lesson a few years back when a ksyrium es wheel of mine blew a drive-side spoke. wobbled home, but it ended the century 10 miles into it.. actually we rode on to the mechanic on course, but he didn't have any replacements for my obscure bladed spkoes.

also, a note about fiberfix spokes: they won't work with Ksyrium SLs, as the spoke nipples are special to mavic.

these days i ride 32-spoked open pros on brevets, and carry a fiberfix just in case.

btw, harris cyclery carries "casette crackers (http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2456)" that can take off a casette without needed a chain whip.

i have one, but haven't had to use it (yet).. i should probably practice it at home, before i need to do it on a dark road at 2 am..

You won't be able to straighten a wheel enough to ride the bike if you break a spoke,

A 210 bud was riding 20 spoke Mavics when he broke a spoke. I did the roadside spoke adjustment and an open of the calipers. He made the 20 mile return no problem. Not even so sure he needed the caliper opened. It can be done!:thumb:

I'd look at the Mavic Open Pro with Ultegra hubs. I picked up a set from Performance Bike for less than $200. Doubt you can build them for much cheaper. Had to take them in and have the retentioned, trued and stress relieved, but that didn't cost much. Great set of wheels.

Less than 200? When did you buy them? The lowest I have seen for the set has been 250....

I have been riding Rolf Prima Vigor wheels with 16 bladed spokes for 2 years, and about 2300 miles, and I hve never had a broken spoke/ maybe I have been lucky!

I have been riding Rolf Prima Vigor wheels with 16 bladed spokes for 2 years, and about 2300 miles, and I hve never had a broken spoke/ maybe I have been lucky!


That's not luck. That's called "break in period". I had low spoke count wheels that lasted only 10 months. But that was 5000 miles. 2300 miles is not much for a long distance rider.

Sheldon Brown wrote an article on the merits of low spoke counts versus high ones. I think the article is now a bit dated, but the point he made was that there is almost no discernable advantage gained (in weight at least) by going to low spoke counts because the trade-off was the need for a heavier extrusion on the rim to cope with the diminished support.

To answer the OP's question, and now that he is doing a wheelbuilding course, and while this is a somewhat radical answer, loosen off one of the spokes entirely so it emulates a broken or missing spoke. Spin the wheel and see how much the rim deforms. If the rim is relatively heavy, it will not deform much, and that may be a clue as to how much distance you could continue riding it; major deformation... well, you know it's better to find out in the loungeroom or workshop than on a randonnee.

I won't go below 32H for randonnees. I have used 36H up to now, and have broken various spokes (including 2 on the rear in PBP 2003) and have been able to keep riding with a true wheel after only a few minor tweaks of surrounding spokes.

I have a 20H rim with a Shimano dynohub that I recently acquired, but that's for winter night road riding only. I have my eye on some Velocity Aeroheads that hopefully I can snaffle, seeing that Mavic Open Pros aren't available at the price I want from the UK supplier that I use.

I am thinking of getting another SON dynohub in 32H. if and when I can locate a matching rim to make a set of three. The new pair of rims will be laced to Ultegra hubs that I have had sitting on my desk for six months waiting, waiting, waiting for the right opportunity to come along.

I also want to go with traditional spokes and hubs becausethe likelihood of spares being available from a support crew or from a bike shop is greater than for obscure (in randonneuring terms) bits such as freehubs and bladed spokes and matching nipples.

My bike came with shimano WH-r500 wheels (cheap shimano wheels) with low spoke count (20 front and 24 rear). One day I will break a spoke on these things and was wondering how hard of a time I would have getting home if I broke one of them.

I am also looking into Fiberfix (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fiberfix.htm) as an emergency repair solution. Anyone have any experience with them?

The fiber fix is a good idea.
Your bike may have three lenghts of spokes.
You would have to know how to install the temp spoke.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/TempSpoke.jpg

i have broken a spoke on those rims. on the rear i broke a drive side spoke and it was almost unrideable. i broke one on day 1 of a 2 day ride at mile 25 with 50 miles to go on the day. i was able to limp the bike the next 50 miles but i had to be careful to not push the rim to hard or it would rub on the frame. the worst thing was climbing and hearing the spokes in the rear ping and pop. nobody had a spoke for the thing including me. but within a couple of weeks i will have my new rims and i plan on pulling a office space and taking a bat to the rim for all the trouble i have been through with the thing :lol:.

That's not luck. That's called "break in period". I had low spoke count wheels that lasted only 10 months. But that was 5000 miles. 2300 miles is not much for a long distance rider.

I am getting well past the "break in period". My best guess at mileage is somewhere around 2750. It will stay that way during the winter while I ride my other bike (which is on a borrowed set of wheels thanks to a broken spoke (oh and the borrowed set has some bulging eyelets...)). I suspect I am getting into the broken period which is my cause for concern.

Sheldon Brown wrote an article on the merits of low spoke counts versus high ones. I think the article is now a bit dated, but the point he made was that there is almost no discernable advantage gained (in weight at least) by going to low spoke counts because the trade-off was the need for a heavier extrusion on the rim to cope with the diminished support.

To answer the OP's question, and now that he is doing a wheelbuilding course, and while this is a somewhat radical answer, loosen off one of the spokes entirely so it emulates a broken or missing spoke. Spin the wheel and see how much the rim deforms. If the rim is relatively heavy, it will not deform much, and that may be a clue as to how much distance you could continue riding it; major deformation... well, you know it's better to find out in the loungeroom or workshop than on a randonnee.

I won't go below 32H for randonnees. I have used 36H up to now, and have broken various spokes (including 2 on the rear in PBP 2003) and have been able to keep riding with a true wheel after only a few minor tweaks of surrounding spokes.

I have a 20H rim with a Shimano dynohub that I recently acquired, but that's for winter night road riding only. I have my eye on some Velocity Aeroheads that hopefully I can snaffle, seeing that Mavic Open Pros aren't available at the price I want from the UK supplier that I use.

I am thinking of getting another SON dynohub in 32H. if and when I can locate a matching rim to make a set of three. The new pair of rims will be laced to Ultegra hubs that I have had sitting on my desk for six months waiting, waiting, waiting for the right opportunity to come along.

I also want to go with traditional spokes and hubs becausethe likelihood of spares being available from a support crew or from a bike shop is greater than for obscure (in randonneuring terms) bits such as freehubs and bladed spokes and matching nipples.

For Sheldon Brown's article for the most part holds true. For example, Zipp 404 clinchers weigh in at 1615 and Open pro/ultegra comes in at 1700-1900 depending on spoke choice. With Dura ace hubs and a 28 hole front you can get down to 1600 grams. They only real advantage is aerodynamics. Unless you go tubular...

I had my eye on the Velocity Fusions. They sounds like a good balance of weight and durability.

If anyone has any arguments for 36h wheels I would be interested. At this point they seem like overkill unless you are touring w/gear. But I have heard a few advocates recently. Hey it is only 4 more spokes....

"Hey it is only 4 more spokes" is exactly the right attitude, IMO. I doubt there has ever been a race lost due to four extra spoes, but you can bet that plenty have been lost for want of them. There is simply no way you can tell the difference between 32 spokes and 36 while riding, and I doubt the stopwatch can tell either -- but my experience has been that 36 spoke wheels are substantially more reliable than 32.