Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Cadence and Going Faster for us newbies

I got inspired by Midgets post regarding MTB vs Roadies. I ride a road bike - pink and white - a beauty, of course! Anyhoo as some of you know, I am trying to go faster...and I hear spinning is the answer. So I just wanted to get some tips. Has anyone felt like they chug along at a clams pace, think the Slowskys! (I love them) In my Winter Base Mileage Group Rides I am the almost slowest. The slowest ends up turning back - and I end up finishing. We were at about 13 MPH on the first 501 miler...then 14.X the next ride (56.5) miles. So how do I do it???

Here's what I did - rode up with the front group as much as possible. For a while I was in my Big ring... and then 2 of the guys whom are excellent riders came by and coached me to take it easy - and always ride in the second ring on these rides - and just spin a ton. I ask you guys HOW!!! It's not easy.

It's a ton of work so I am looking for inspiration!!

I run as well to lose weight - and yesterday hit the treadmill for a 5mile run. I usually go at 10.5 to 11 mph...slow again. Today I will lift weights and first run a faster mile at maybe 9mph.maybe that's the way to get better at the long distances - but increasing speed on shorter rides? Problem is in the winter I only have the Saturday LONG ride and maybe a Sunday ride- though lately not so much.

OK Your thoughts....
A. Miss B you are one lazy rider
B. Who Cares?
C. Ah miss B it's cadence...it is hard...just pedal and pedal - keep your feet flat at all times... maximize efficiency...eat more...
D. Interesting
E. All of the Above
F. None of the Above

And More Info:
I am about 40 pounds over weight to be in top top form..... riding since June...can run 5 miles...and ride at a slow pace 100.

Info on the bike: Specialized Dolce Elite - Not compact gearing....triple..

Crankset: Shimano Tiagra, 30/39/50 teeth
Bottom Bracket Sugino Shell Width Unspecified
Rear Cogs 9-speed, 11 -28 teeth

THanks Guys - look forward to reading your ideas to ake Miss B HTFU!

How do you hold up on steep hills?
I had my Small Front Ring 30T, changed to a 24T for hills and it is great.

Acouple things that I have done: every time I ride a stationary, I stay between 90-100rpm, even if I have to adjust resistance a bit, as it is a good opportunity to give you a feel for the cadence. Then, on the road, I experimented with gears to find what gears to use at what points in my ride. An advantage is that I commute, so I ride the same route every day, and can compare different pairings and how they worked out. Another thing I committed to is spinning up hills as opposed to standing. In my opinion, this has helped as well. I am by no means a speed demon, but I do know that spinning faster in lower gears resulted in faster speeds with less fatigue, as it is more aerobic.

The first thing to do is find the comfortable cadence that you can already do in a comfortable gearing pair, then ditch it and make it just a bit harder. Either try and increase your RPM or use the next taller gear.

I have no choice other than to spin. My kees blow out like something that would happen to Wylie Coyote if I try and mash for too long or too hard.

I don't know my ring numbers and I really don't seem to care. I ride at 85-110 cadence, but I try to keep it in the 90+ range most of the time. I am rarely on my small ring and with the hills I ride, I will maybe get on the small ring once for about a minute of climbing time and then I am back to the big ring.

Acouple things that I have done: every time I ride a stationary, I stay between 90-100rpm, even if I have to adjust resistance a bit, as it is a good opportunity to give you a feel for the cadence. Then, on the road, I experimented with gears to find what gears to use at what points in my ride. An advantage is that I commute, so I ride the same route every day, and can compare different pairings and how they worked out. Another thing I committed to is spinning up hills as opposed to standing. In my opinion, this has helped as well. I am by no means a speed demon, but I do know that spinning faster in lower gears resulted in faster speeds with less fatigue, as it is more aerobic.

Thanks Midget - I tried the statonary bike just now - wow that's dast pedalling. How long do you last on it? I just did it for 10 minutes as a warm up for my weight lifting stuff....but since I can run 5 miles - I bet I coudl do that as well...any suggetsions on how often/how long. It's not a spinning bike but it's upright and may help me on the road.

How do you hold up on steep hills?
I had my Small Front Ring 30T, changed to a 24T for hills and it is great.

Intersting... I do fine.... They make fun of me on my rides casue I have a triple and lots of gears etc. Still I am sllloooow

For higher cadence, just make sure that you watch your bike computer and adjust the gears so you're always between 80 and 100 rpm.

The other thing you can do to improve cadence is to do spin ups. Ride in a nice and easy gear at 90rpm and spin up to the highest rpm you can manage every 15 min. or so. Try to keep the high cadence for maybe 30 secs. This maybe 120 in the beginning and might feel difficult, but eventually as the times go on and you are going to improve your leg speed, this might very well go up to 150 and higher.

When I started out a year ago I thought 120 was killer, I can do now 185rpm on the rollers without loosing control over my bike.

Thomas

First, to go faster you must add the color red to the Dolce, a neat pinstripe or a rattle can job should be sufficent. It's a well know fact that red makes you go faster. Next, you need to add a flame sticker.

Ok seriously though, it takes practice. Ride how you are comfortable and enjoy it! If you want to push teh big ring do it so long as you are not mashing, you want to spin do it. On my longer rides I tend to push the big ring more than I should. Am I going to change, probably not. I'll just downshift when I need to.

IMO persons who are fast and experienced tend to recommend high cadence too much in the sense that they don't acknowledge that you have to work up to it over time. I don't think these sudden changes to high cadence are even possible for some of us. As Txintage said (I think it was he), just nudge it up a little at a time and you will improve... and IMO ou will also enjoy your rides without flogging yourself to death.

Cross training with weights for your legs and entire body will help. Strengthening all the leg muscles and your core muscles will improve your cycling.

If you're in a very low gear, you just spin and go slowly. If you're in a very high gear, the forces required are too great, and you go slowly. Somewhere in between, there's an optimum that maximizes your speed...and it's different for different people.

Higher cadence comes from practice and better cardiac fittness. Work at it for about 6 weeks and you will find you will move into the 90 95 range over time. My sweet spot is this, if I am out of breath I'm spinning too fast, if the legs hurt, I'm spinning too slow and in too big a gear.

Higher cadence preserves the knees and leave lots of power for climbs or sprints. If you are with a group, don't be shy about drafting for periods of rest. Then you can switch to a higher gear and closer cadence while sitting in. You only have so much in the tank for each ride, if used wisely you will be faster in the long run.

Thanks Midget - I tried the statonary bike just now - wow that's dast pedalling. How long do you last on it? I just did it for 10 minutes as a warm up for my weight lifting stuff....but since I can run 5 miles - I bet I coudl do that as well...any suggetsions on how often/how long. It's not a spinning bike but it's upright and may help me on the road.

My routine, and this is just personal preference, is this: If biking is the primary cardio for the day, which for me is a 'cross training' day, I run a mile, then I bike for 45 minutes on random hill setting at level 8-12, depending on how I feel that day, and what my RPM is, which I try to keep between 90 and 100. Running is definitely a good primer for this. I only go below level 10 (out of 20) when the resistance is at it's highest, aka a strong hill-I treat the level setting like downshifting.

I have been doing this 2x per week, but I want to move it to 3x. My knee was a bit sore after last night's 5k loop, so tonight is just a 1 mile and then some lifting, and tomorrow will be a bike day.

For me the biggest change in my cadence happened when I went from push push push to thinking about little circles...

I run as well to lose weight - and yesterday hit the treadmill for a 5mile run. I usually go at 10.5 to 11 mph...slow again. Today I will lift weights and first run a faster mile at maybe 9mph.

I think maybe you mean 10.5 to 11 minute miles and a faster one at 9 minute miles. Because 1.5 mph running is faster than a 6 minute mile, whihc whilke not world class, is pretty quick.

Anyways, a higher cadence is not necesarily a good thing. You have to find a cadence that suits you. For me, I use a high cadence, about 100. For you, your optimal cadence might be completely different. Either way, you need to find your optimal cadence.

Oh, if you are running, and cycling, why not throw swimming into the ring, and do a triathlon. They are tons of fun!

First off, I didn't read all the responses...

Do you have trainer? As in one of those devices you attach your bike to that has a resistance unit for the back wheel. Or a stationary? Either of those will make this easier, but you can do it on your bike on flat ground...

Practice one legged pedaling. 20 revolutions with right leg, 20 revolutions with left leg. Pay attention to what you are doing to keep the pedal moving with one foot not touching a pedal at all. Get used to the feeling of having to rotate the crank all the way around with only one foot. Then switch feet.

When you think you have a handle on it, put both feet back on and try to coordinate the entire thing. That is spinning. If you find yourself bouncing on the seat, you aren't coordinating it right. Go back to the one legged drill.

Here's the reason why. If you aren't actively unweighting the leg that's on the upstroke, the one pushing down has to propel the bike and push that leg up too. That leg that's being pushed up is also still pushing down, increasing the effort needed to push it up. By learning to unweight that leg using the one-legged drill, you are decreasing the amount of effort needed to keep the pedals going.

I find it extremely helpful climbing, on flats, all the time actually. My preferred cadence is 105, but I can crank it up to 140 or more if needed. I do get down to the low 50's on steep climbs, but I try to keep my climbing cadence at 80 or 90.

All that said, some folks physiology precludes spinning at a fast cadence. They just aren't built for it. But you can learn to ride faster.

As I learned in another sport, to go fast, you have to practice going fast.

Missbumble, you realize that riding with a higher cadence isn't automatically going to make you faster, right?

Going faster is, ultimately, a matter of leg strength and cardiovascular fitness. If you want to ride faster, there are only a couple of choices, right? You can: 1) pedal faster in the same gear, or 2) you can switch to harder gear and pedal at the same rate, or 3) you can switch to an easier gear and pedal a lot faster. If you've got weak legs, that takes Option #2 off the table. And if you've got poor cardiovascular fitness or can't pedal at a high cadence, then Option #3 is off the table.

For myself, I tend to think of cadence not as a means to go faster but as allowing me to make the trade-off between leg strength and cardiovascular strength. Sometimes, pedaling at a higher cadence in an easier gear is a better way to go fast than using my leg muscles to push a more difficult gear. My cadence is typically between 90 and 100rpm, with an absolute maximum of about 120rpm. I'm always in a gear that allows me to pedal at this same 90-100rpm cadence. For me, this is sort of the "sweet spot"; I feel like I could pedal all day at this cadence without getting tired. As a result, I'm able to save my leg strength for when I really need it: climbing hills, embarrassing my buddies in our informal sprints, etc.

When I want to go faster, I work on leg strength and endurance not cadence! For me, this means forcing myself to ride in a more difficult gear than I normally might and to stay in that gear for as long as possible. You can also do weight lifting, hill repeats, intervals, or anything else what will help strengthen your muscles and increase power. Once you're stronger, you can then use cadence, gearing, etc. to decide when you want to use that power.

Miss alot of good advice above. One additional recommendation would be do shorter rides, where you work on higher cadence and more speed. You might see this mentioned as a time trial pace or lactate thresold workout.

I don't have a candence meter for my bike. While running I try to do 90 strides per minute. To accomplish this I made myself a clip track. Where the click is 90 bpm and I concentrate on striking my foot down on the beat. Once I get use to this feel, I can do away with the click track, I might try it on the bike.

sstorkel put it in a better fashion. Cadence on its own does not mean speed for me, but in combination with strength, and finding a sweet spot, speed is a byproduct of it, as is, in my case, endurance.
Sorry if I misled.

It takes a few seasons to be able to spin like that for most people. It also takes practice. At the same traveling speed, my heart rate is also a lot higher when I spin at 110 rpm, as opposed to 95 rpm. So for me, and more than half of the other clydes that I've ridden with, the benefit cut-off ends up being somewhere around 95-105 rpm (it is 110-120 rpm for many smaller riders). Like I said, it took a few seasons for me to get comfortable at that cadence. Before I started training for it, my cadence was usually in the 80-90 rpm range.

It also takes more energy to move bigger legs than it does smaller ones. So, you tend to see chunky-thigh people like me spin at lower rates than the pencil-leg crowd. Just how it is.

Increasing your comfortable spin rate does make you faster, though. I work on it by doing fast-spin intervals, and one recovery/slow/flat ride where I try to keep my cadence above 110 for the entire ride. The idea is to spin faster than I ever would ride in a "real" or group ride. Speed and other technique goes out the window. It hurts, but it trains-up those fast-twitch muscles better than just about anything else that I've tried.

Be careful spinning fast at first too. You can damage your knees if you spin so fast that you lose control of the movement. You don't want to hyper-extend or twist-up those knees.

Take care.

Efficiency is much more importnant than cadence. Has someone shown you/taught you how to pedal in circles?

:Crankset: Shimano Tiagra, 30/39/50 teeth"

You're missing the most important detail- Crank LENGTH!

IF your cranks are too long for your legs, your cadence will be limited.
The length should be stamped inside one/both arms. Typically, something like 170MM.

I have a bad knee, and simply going to 170's from the 175's that were on the bike increased my cadence by 22%.
The 175's simply exceeded the range of motion in my knee, so I was literally "carrying the knee over the top" with the opposite down stroke.

5MM doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that you also raise the seat by 5MM. That's really a 10MM change in how much the "up knee" bends. (.4")

DOing intervals on a trainer was most effective in my case. I used to think one had to push big gears on the road to go fast. This only leads to fatigue. It is like trying to bench press 300 lbs. You can do it a few times then you're spent. SO you benched 300 lbs 5 times, you moved 1500 lbs. If you bench 150 lbs, you can lift it 20 times. That's 3000 lbs of force. With the 300 lbs, it's doubtful you'll be able to do another set. With the 150, you will easily be able to continue lifting.

One season I actually trained to improve my cycling. I didn't count miles, how far behind I was left behind on group rides, what centuries I wanted to complete, it was all drills on the trainer and some long wekend rides.

My trainer workouts were high cadence intervals mixed with hard effort intervals. My workouts were along these lines.

10 minutes warm up
1 minute hig revs. (100 + while trying to maintain a smooth spin) Maybe a 39/15 combo, no bouncing!
3 minutes recoup pace
1 minute biggest gear ( 50 x 11). You want to puke by the end of this interval.
Then repeat the cycle.

After a couple of weeks, you will improve and feel stronger. I might alter the plan at times. Maybe drop the big ring workout a couple of gears and push HARD for 3 minutes. Then do a high rep interval after a 3 minute rest. Folloing the clock with planned recoup intervals is a good tool as it forces you to GO even if you aren't prepared. It's like listening to a coach telling you to GO NOW, rather than lolligagging around till you feel like it!:D

After a 45 minute session like this, you will be sweating like a dog but you wil know that you got a good workout. When I returned to theh road, I was shocked at how much my tech had changed. You will feel ike you want to do intervals and you have the ability.

But like others say, it doesn't make you faster. My opinion is that it allows you to carry a higher speed more efficiently with less fatigue.

Missbumble,

There have been losts of good suggestions so I won't add any more other than to encourage you to stick with it and follow some of the advise. Find what works for you. You WILL get stronger and you WILL get faster as you keep working on both your riding and your running. It all takes time. When I got back to riding/commuting on bike about 20 months ago I used to struggle to get much over 12 MPH for only 5 miles. Now I can easily do 13 to 14 on my heavy winter tires with a bit of wind, and about 16 to 17 with summer tires on the exact same bike... but that is for a short 5 mile route. Its easy to got fast on a short ride. I know you've been working hard, but I bet you could never ride 14 mph on average for 50 miles last year. If you only get the one longer ride in, then maybe hold off with some of the intervals till you are close to the end. That way you can work yourself hard, but know that you'll still be able to get to the end. You don't want to over do it early on and then completely run out of steam with a good distance to go till the end. Also note that hills will greatly lower your average speed... if you get a bunch of hills then you'll certainly be riding slower, but you will be working much harder.

Hang in there and continue to work hard like you have been. I bet that next year you'll be able to ride at 15 to 16 mph over long runs.

Happy riding,
André

5MM doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that you also raise the seat by 5MM. That's really a 10MM change in how much the "up knee" bends. (.4")
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Why would you keep the saddle at the same height if you changed the crank length? Saddle height is set by the leg extension, therefore if you change it.........:twitchy:


Because I am so finely in tune with my bike, I would drop the saddle 5mm if I lowered the bottom of the pedal stroke by 5mm.:roflmao2:

Missbumble, you realize that riding with a higher cadence isn't automatically going to make you faster, right?

Going faster is, ultimately, a matter of leg strength and cardiovascular fitness. If you want to ride faster, there are only a couple of choices, right? You can: 1) pedal faster in the same gear, or 2) you can switch to harder gear and pedal at the same rate, or 3) you can switch to an easier gear and pedal a lot faster. If you've got weak legs, that takes Option #2 off the table. And if you've got poor cardiovascular fitness or can't pedal at a high cadence, then Option #3 is off the table.

For myself, I tend to think of cadence not as a means to go faster but as allowing me to make the trade-off between leg strength and cardiovascular strength. Sometimes, pedaling at a higher cadence in an easier gear is a better way to go fast than using my leg muscles to push a more difficult gear. My cadence is typically between 90 and 100rpm, with an absolute maximum of about 120rpm. I'm always in a gear that allows me to pedal at this same 90-100rpm cadence. For me, this is sort of the "sweet spot"; I feel like I could pedal all day at this cadence without getting tired. As a result, I'm able to save my leg strength for when I really need it: climbing hills, embarrassing my buddies in our informal sprints, etc.

When I want to go faster, I work on leg strength and endurance not cadence! For me, this means forcing myself to ride in a more difficult gear than I normally might and to stay in that gear for as long as possible. You can also do weight lifting, hill repeats, intervals, or anything else what will help strengthen your muscles and increase power. Once you're stronger, you can then use cadence, gearing, etc. to decide when you want to use that power.

I like that! :thumb:

To go at any given speed requires a certain power output. Power is force times speed. You can pedal slowly with great force, or pedal rapidly with less force, but the product is the same at the same bike speed. The amount of force you can exert decreases with increasing pedal rates...at some point, it's all you can do to move your legs, with nothing left for the bike. There's an optimum point that produces the best results. For most people, it's probably at a higher cadence than they're comfortable with at first, so learning to increase your cadence will help your biking speed...for a while. But trying to pedal too rapidly in too low a gear will actually decrease your power output and your biking speed. The trick is to find the gearing that puts you at the optimum point for you...and different people have different optimum points.

Training rides, go by yourself or with others but let them know what you are doing. Don't worry about the speed just the cadance. As stated run a gearing that allows a 90+ cadance. Do it in intervals as in 30 on 30 off for 3 minutes, what I mean is 30 seconds at 90+ cadance comfortable cadance for 30 seconds and repeat 7 or 8 times. Then give yourself a good 3-5 minutes to lower your HR and do it all over again once or twice for a total of two or three sets. The biggest importance of high cadance is overall speed and strength it really is the driver behind all cyclists goals, it trains your fast twitch muscles which will allow you to spin in the big ring later on. It also builds your cardio. One thing cadance is really good for is recovery after a long climb, don't just peak over the hill and coast, spin a little after it will help with lactic acid buildup in legs after all that hard work.

5MM doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that you also raise the seat by 5MM. That's really a 10MM change in how much the "up knee" bends. (.4")



Why would you keep the saddle at the same height if you changed the crank length? Saddle height is set by the leg extension, therefore if you change it.........:twitchy:

That's exactly what Bill was saying.

Eg, assume the following with 175mm cranks

- BB to seat = 700mm
- Pedal to seat at bottom of stroke = 700mm + 175mm = 875mm
- Pedal to seat at top of stroke 700mm - 175mm = 525mm

If you change the cranks to 170mm, you still need to keep the distance from the pedal to the seat at the bottom of stroke at 700mm, so you will raise the set height by 5mm to create a distance from the BB to the seat of 705mm.

The distance from the seat to the pedal at the top of the stroke will be now be 705mm-170mm = 535mm, an increase of 10mm.

That's exactly what Bill was saying.



I you still need to keep the distance from the pedal to the seat at the bottom of stroke at 700mm



700????..I thought we were trying to keep the stroke extension to 875?

700 +175 crank length = 875

I see what you're saying, the distance a the top of the stroke changes. Either way, the OP has a WSD bike with a 50 big ring. I hardly doubt the mfgr would supply that bike with 175 crankarms, so more than likely not a factor in this case.

I do have a 172.5 and a 175 on separate roadies. I hardly notice a difference even at the top. But then again, I don't have a bad knee to take into consideration.

.... Either way, the OP has a WSD bike with a 50 big ring. I hardly doubt the mfgr would supply that bike with 175 crankarms, so more than likely not a factor in this case.



Again you miss the point!
It's not what length crank Miss B has on her bike, it's the proper length for HER that matters!

Miss B...I think Mr Beanz "interval" suggestion might make you faster. Keep spinning and getting your cadence up but you have plenty of "base" miles now to start on some interval training whether on the trainer or on the road. If you really want to get faster, then u must "train".

I recently developed a spreadsheet that gives the cadence in a given gear at a given speed. If you don't have a cadence computer, this might be helpful. You can then figure out what speed you'd be going in a given gear at a certain cadence and then work at hitting that target speed in that gear. For example, on my Trek 460, I'd be at a cadence of 100 when I am going exactly 23.0 MPH in my 52/18 gear. The inputs are the wheel/tire radius, the crank length and the number of teeth in each gear. My spreadsheet also calculates Sheldon's gain ratio (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gain.html) for each gear. If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I can email a copy of this spreadsheet to you.

Seriously am gonna print all this out. I may need someone to decipher some of it... As I am without bike here on the road - I did try to do the stationary bike for 30 minutes - which I never do... at 90-100. It was a workout and then I ran for 30 minutes and I couod feel the different muscles each workout works - so it will help... a bit.

The trianer is a good idea. Maybe even if I am not home much I am home Thurs Eve late thru Sunday... so what the hey? I think I will inquire aftrer my ride Saturday at the LBS.

So on Satrurday I will concentrate on spinning - high caddence and smooth... Just keep at it. This summer I was starign some cadence drills but not faithfully. So I apprciate all of the suggestions. Not sure about some of the technical ones. Though I told ya all about my components - I am not sure what they all mean...but I think iget the gist of it.

Again you miss the point!
It's not what length crank Miss B has on her bike, it's the proper length for HER that matters!


I'm missing the point?:roflmao2:...........I think the post is asking how to improve spin and legspeed. I'm sure she was fitted when she bought her bike. A bike maker does not place 175 cranks on a 50 cm WSD bike. So more than likely her bike is properly set up with proper crank length. Not sure why you keep throwing in the fact that you made a huge jump from 175's to 170's because of your weak knee. The poster doesn't need to change crank length to improve a deadspot in her spin like you did. She needs advice on how to increase legspeed and improve spinning.:rolleyes:

The post is about improving the spin. I provided info on increasing speed and rpm's. But I am happy for you that you solved your fit issues in order to compensate for your bad knee.;)

But thanks, if I ever develope a bad knee and don't have the power or flexibility to push over the top, I will shorten my crank length!:D

MissB, do the workout on a bike trainer if you can. Stationary bikes at the gym aren't quite the same. Never been on a spin bike so maybe someone else can chime in on that!:)

I agree that hooking your bike up to an indoor trainer, and doing fast-cadence intervals gives fantastic results. No hills or traffic distractions. You can really pay attention to your pedal mechanics and dial it in.

I also agree that stationary bikes at the gym are not the same as riding an outdoor bike at all. As for spin bikes? It depends on the model. Most of the new ones are comparable (170 mm crank-arms), but some of the older ones feel a lot different. I find a decent spin bike equipped with SPD pedals to feel about the same as my outdoor bike on an indoor trainer, as far as pedal mechanics go. Both will help you increase your cadence during the off-season.

The problem with using spin bikes (and trainers to a degree) is that they have momentum which carries you through your deadspots thus making it harder to identify and correct them.

As I mentioned previously, efficiency in you stroke is what you should be working on before you aim for high cadences (using your butt, hamstring and other muscles). If you already have a good circular stroke then the drills suggested will work. One legged drills on the bike in particular will help stroke, balance and bike handling.

SStorkel said about working on power. I see his point but the idea of working on cadence is that it improves your potential. If you can only turn at 80rpm max then, regardless of how strong you get, you will be limited to the speed produced by your largest gear (e.g., 50x12) at 80 rpms. If you develop an efficient stroke and work on cadence then you max potential speed is your largest gear at (say) 120rpms.

I'm missing the point?:roflmao2:...........I think the post is asking how to improve spin and legspeed. I'm sure she was fitted when she bought her bike. A bike maker does not place 175 cranks on a 50 cm WSD bike. So more than likely her bike is properly set up with proper crank length. Not sure why you keep throwing in the fact that you made a huge jump from 175's to 170's because of your weak knee. The poster doesn't need to change crank length to improve a deadspot in her spin like you did. She needs advice on how to increase legspeed and improve spinning.:rolleyes:

The post is about improving the spin. I provided info on increasing speed and rpm's. But I am happy for you that you solved your fit issues in order to compensate for your bad knee.;)

But thanks, if I ever develope a bad knee and don't have the power or flexibility to push over the top, I will shorten my crank length!:D

MissB, do the workout on a bike trainer if you can. Stationary bikes at the gym aren't quite the same. Never been on a spin bike so maybe someone else can chime in on that!:)

Specialized places 170MM cranks on their 51 & 54 CM Dolce Elites. 165's on the smaller frames and 175's on the 56 CM.

Unless you are paying $1000's, a bike fitting means adjusting the seat & bars. IF you complain enough, they might switch the stem! Few people would even think about crank length and the shop certainly isn't going to suggest THEM doing extra work an then trying to sell the take off crank..

Miss B WOULD spin faster with shorter cranks, PERIOD. That doesn't mean they would be better for her. There IS a point of diminishing returns, with the loss of leverage.
I've even tried 160's for a few months. My cadence was slightly better, but the net result wasn't!

I customize my cassette with different cogs for different crank lengths to best optimize any combination I use. That eliminates crank/gearing mismatches that could skew results of just a crank length change.
I feel that puts me far ahead on this issue over someone that posted on a similar thread that "they couldn't tell the difference"!

And assuming a bike is always going to have the proper length cranks is simply ludicrous!
Look at 26" wheeled mountain bikes. Your choices are pretty much limited to 170 & 175. It doesn't matter if you're 5'0" or 6'6"!

Unless you are paying $1000's, a bike fitting means adjusting the seat & bars. IF you complain enough, they might switch the stem! Few people would even think about crank length and the shop certainly isn't going to suggest THEM doing extra work an then trying to sell the take off crank..


I don't know what fitting your are going to, but I paid $150,a nd we changed the seat height, number of spacers in the stem, cchanged the stem (which I had to buy, but at half price), new seat, measured crank length to ensure correct length (it was), added some washers to the pedals to make them further out (I have a wide stance), and a couple of other changes, as well. Certainly not $1000's, and certainly more than sit height and bar adjustment. Anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but I'm betting most fittings are more than you think.

Not that I know what you guys are talking about - but I have 170 thingys (I go thome and looked at the "cranks" ...have no idea what that does but I have em..

Anyhoo it's like worrying about the weight of a bike when you are heavy it aint the big picture...perhaps. The big picture is getting the Bee faster. The bike is a 54.8... also I have been fitted - and have added an djustible stem to raise the bars up a bit...and perhaps we will seeif they need any more adjustent when I go in.


I think learning to spin is the key as well as cadence and drills... My knees seem to be fine - and my areobic capacity is likely good.

I will ask the guys at the shop. So Saturday I am going in at 9 am for a Trainer session. (I am going to forgo the group ride as it starts at 11 due to teh weather and is going 67 miles... well that might extend into my evening and ya know the Bee likes her Saturday evenings! So a great day to try out the Trainer!

We will be watching Chris Carmichaels video - and the guys at the shop will likely help me out - and I can try some of your ideas out. They trainer is $225 and they would give me 15% discount.. so perhaps that way I can spin at home - like tonight...


OK stay tuned - the Bee plans the HTFU. And ya know...eben if the stationary bike is not the real thing. Man I felt like Superwoman bikign at 90-100 for 30 minutes and running 3 miles. WOW! I mean a year ago I was just getting fatter and fatter and sadder and sadder...now I am the Bee!

I don't know what fitting your are going to, but I paid $150,a nd we changed the seat height, number of spacers in the stem, cchanged the stem (which I had to buy, but at half price), new seat, measured crank length to ensure correct length (it was), added some washers to the pedals to make them further out (I have a wide stance), and a couple of other changes, as well. Certainly not $1000's, and certainly more than sit height and bar adjustment. Anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but I'm betting most fittings are more than you think.

For $150 I hope they supplied the Vasoline!:)

For $150 I hope they supplied the Vasoline!:)


That was uncalled for! You need to go to your corner and take a time-out!:p

For $150 I hope they supplied the Vasoline!:)

You get what you pay for with fittings. If you want to pay $20 and get a half assed job by an unskilled fitter, go ahead. If you have the skills and knowledge to do it yourself, good for you, I don't, nor do many/most cyclists.

Price has very little to do with how good a bike fit you will get from a "professional". I received an expensive bike fitting once as a gift, and the end result was not that much different than the standard free ones you get when buying a new bike from a decent LBS.

In fact, the best fitting that I ever got was a free one from a LBS when I bought my bike last year. They changed out my saddle for one that fit me better (free), traded out the stem for one with a longer reach (free), adjusted the stem height (traded one spacer for a smaller one for free), adjusted the handlebar angle (feels better slightly down, where hands are flat on hoods), double-checked and increased the spoke tension since I'm a clyde (also free), and would not let me leave the building until they tweaked my final position while watching me ride on an indoor trainer for about 35-40 minutes, with my pedals (took off my old bike).

In fact, they sort of gave me two bike fittings for free there. They helped me dial in my old road bike to the same dimensions as the new-fit, so that I could try them out while the bike was on lay-away for a few weeks. They made the final adjustments to the new bike based on how the old bike felt with the new "fit" recommendations too. What did they get for all of that "free" time with me? A dedicated customer, and someone that recommends their shop to other serious riders in the area.

The only time that I would consider paying $500 for a fit, is if riding were consistently uncomfortable, or if I decided to start racing, for some reason (not going to happen...cycling is FUN to me, and I want to keep it that way).

I'm with Pinyon on the fitting thing, when I got my first roadbike I was at the shop for 3 freaking hours. The guy went over everything. Whole personel fit, changed out a bunch of stuff, whole bunch of measuring printed out my geometry chart ofr future bike buying. Rode th etrainer for like 1 hour tweaking this and that, even noticed I was pigeon toed on my right foot and adjusted shoes to accomadate. I would have gladly spent the $150 if it meant I could ride the bike effeciently, therefore pain free.

Well, I didn't buy my bike from the bike shop that fitted it, I bought it used, from CL. Hence the $150 charge, which also included the opportunity for me to go back two times after that for adjustments, no charge. Didn't need to, though, it was done right the first time. When I purchased my wife's bike from the same bike shop, the fitting was free, along with 3 tune ups and 2 fit adjustments.

Hey - Well today was ride number 1 on the trainer. I went to Contes in Conyers and joined the 3 shop owners and the wrench for a ride. Firstw e watched part of Transformers (next time I told them we watch When Harry Met Sally) then they put in Chris Charmichael's Climbing dvd and they all left me! So all in all I rode about 1.5 hours and loved it.

I bought the Trainer -a Giant- and will try it tomorrow with a dvd i bought (they are gonna order a Fitness Biking one for me). So I am pretty excited about it. I really do love being with them and riding withthe real cyclists. I now -=I do ride..but well I like the biking community and feeling I belong. A friend is going to bring me a bunch more DVDs he has so the Bee should be good to go. Now if only I was home in ATL long enough to ride.

Anyhoo - I will work on everything y'all taught me - and am going back in for a tweak ont he fitting. At Contes they told me my seat was faklempt...but that they did not really want to change it since the guy doing my ftting should really be the one to make adjustments.In any case I will try and see him soon.

Thanks for the support as always. No ride report today - 22 degrees this morning brrrr.

I really do love being with them and riding withthe real cyclists.

Contes they told me my seat was faklempt...

You ARE a RIDER, Miss B!

faklempt?????