Road Bike Racing - question about climbs in races

this is probably a question that everyone else knows the answer to but me, but i'm curious so:

is drafting important on climbs? i was under the impression that it wasn't b/c speeds were too low (if anyone knows what minimum speed riders must be doing in order for drafting to have any practical benefit, i'd like to know). but i remember reading in the book by lance armstrong he mentioned quite a few times how great his team mates who led him up climbs performed, and i've also read that this year in the tour de france one of the big climbs is going to be a timetrial. so riders will have to do it by themselves, w/o the help of drafting. but like i said, i figured drafting was not so important on big climbs b/c it's hard to maintain the pace needed to bennefit from it. can anyone shed some light on this for me? thanks.

dan

Don D and Road Warrior can answer this better than me.

My understanding is that that draft at 10 mph is minimal. I'm going to guess that even a minimal draft is somewhat helpful and that a lot of what a rider like Heras does for Lance is psychological. It's a lot easier to push yourself when there's someone in front of you. It's also nice to have someone pace you. Keeps you from exploding too soon.

Drafting gets more important with speed squared so to some extend you are right but I definitely agree with Laggard.

Joe

I think that "saving %30 of my energy on a steep climb" was a bit misleading, in the book.

On a climb like that, I think the real benefit is simply having someone pace for you (mental). Where they would actually come in useful is possible false flats and descents.

I still think its sort of silly when I see 5-10 riders come to a mountaintop finish together. It happens because nowone is actually trying to ride at what their most efficient pace would be. They just play cat and mouse.

Of course, the pros do these climbs at speeds mere mortals do not. I'm guessing that a good pro climber will be able to average 14-15 mph on a 6.5 - 7% grade over the course of several miles. At those speeds drafting does work. Anyone know what the average speed was for Mount Ventoux by Armstrong or Pantani?

Anyone know what the average speed was for Mount Ventoux by Armstrong or Pantani?

something between 10-12mph I'm pretty sure

(20km climb done in around 60 minutes)

I agree with Laggard. At least for us mere mortals, there's a major psychological component. It's just easier when someone else is setting the pace (provided you can keep up!).

IMO, the effect of wind seems even more significant on hard climbs, so having a rider in front of you can help quite a bit. A headwind can be brutal, and a tailwind can be like knocking the grade down a couple of degrees.

For this very reason I have been worried about
the impact that Heras is going to have on the
tour this year. On OLN after the tour last year
Lance said that there were a couple of times on
climbs that he had to tell Heras to slow down
or he (Lance) was going to get dropped. If
he was strong enough that he was ready to drop
Lance in the mountains he may a factor this
year.
I am certain that getting a "pull" up climbs
makes a significant difference. Imagine biking
into a 10mph wind, not earth shattering but it
is enough to further disturb your cadence and
on a bike that has been geared appropriately
for the climb it could leave a rider looking for
one more gear that simply is not there.

This is highly technical: they can't be going too fast because there's always some fat guy who can run along side the riders pouring water on them, or some other crap.

The biggest advantage to following/drafting on a hill for me was the psychological advantage of having a wheel to follow. If you have someone setting the pace, it's easier to follow. It takes the pressure off mentally. Lots of riders are hired by teams just for this purpose, to set tempo on the climbs. This makes it difficult for the other riders and burns off the chaff, but it also makes it easier for the team leader since all he has to do is follow. Rubiera and Beltran are the ones doing this for USPS now.

Following has always been Rebellin's strongest point and one of the reasons Hincapie is there at the end so often. They can follow well.

If you can latch onto a wheel and stay on it without letting gaps open, you can race. I think everyone who has been in a race has either said or heard said, "Close the Gap!", or "Shut down the gap!"

This is another reason why "pocket climbers" like Pantani were so successful. Their technique is to use sudden accelerations to drop the followers on climbs, breaking their rythm and opening quick gaps that the followers then had to close. Since the followers are often the weaker climbers, without the mental edge of the wheel to follow, they often fall off the pace, while the rider who jumped away settles back into the same pace after a few hundred meters and can then sustain the gap.

The ability to sustain your own high pace while climbing is alot mental, just like in time trialing. Note that the great Tour riders are often great time trialers. I think alot of good followers don't have that mental edge.

I can't count the number of races I've been in where all I could see was the wheel in front of me. Staying on that wheel becomes the key to staying in contention and that works while climbing with little or no draft or on the flats, where the draft is more pronounced.

I can't count the number of races I've been in where all I could see was the wheel in front of me. Staying on that wheel becomes the key to staying in contention and that works while climbing with little or no draft or on the flats, where the draft is more pronounced.

There are times where that wheel is the only thing that matters in the world.

i'll also guess that it prevents you from being boxed in and having your cadence interrupted. these climbs can become narrow and winding, so passing becomes a harder endeavor than in the flats.

For this very reason I have been worried about
the impact that Heras is going to have on the
tour this year. On OLN after the tour last year
Lance said that there were a couple of times on
climbs that he had to tell Heras to slow down
or he (Lance) was going to get dropped. If
he was strong enough that he was ready to drop
Lance in the mountains he may a factor this
year.
I am certain that getting a "pull" up climbs
makes a significant difference. Imagine biking
into a 10mph wind, not earth shattering but it
is enough to further disturb your cadence and
on a bike that has been geared appropriately
for the climb it could leave a rider looking for
one more gear that simply is not there.



I don't know about dropping Lance on the climb, because Roberto is not setting a pace that will let him finish the climb at that speed. His job is to blow himself up slowly by giving Lance a wheel for as long as he can. If Lance is asking him to slow down, its simply becuase he is going to fast too soon. The pace is supposed to be high enough to shed the weaker riders and discourage attacks. But not put Lance in the red while following.

After Heras blows, Lance takes over and Heras soft pedals to the top, and lives to fight and help another day.

On OLN after the tour last year
Lance said that there were a couple of times on
climbs that he had to tell Heras to slow down
or he (Lance) was going to get dropped. If
he was strong enough that he was ready to drop
Lance in the mountains he may a factor this
year.


Heras was riding with the belief that Lance was going to take the lead in the closing Kilometers. Heras would not have to maintain that pace to the top, Lance would.