Touring - Custom TI Touring Bike Build Thread WITH PICTS

I am building a new touring bike for a tour of Yunnan Province, China next spring.

Black Sheep, of Fort Collins Colorado made this TI frame and fork to my specs. These folks have been just great throughout the entire process.

Here are the specs:

Top Tube 55
Seat tube angle 73.25
Headtube angle 72.5
Headtube Height 150
Chain Stays 43.5
Spacing 135
Braking Avid Road BB7 disc
water bottle mounts 3
Extras: Pump peg/ low rider eyelets, rear rack eyelets, fender eyelets, TI S&S couplers, Rear Disk Brake mount on chainstay for better rear rack clearance, Titanium Racks (have not yet arrived from fame builder, removable Canti brake tabs AND disk brake mounts for future flexability.

Components
Chris king hubs, stainless drive shell,
Chris King headset
and Shimano XTR crank and deraileurs
Shimano Ultegra bar end shifters
salsa 44-36-22
SRAM 11-34 cassette
Salsa Delgado Cross rims
DT stainless straight spokes
Brooks B17 narrow saddle

Pictures posted soon. The build Process starts Monday Jan 19, so stay tuned!

Here are the picts of the frame, just arrived From Black Sheep after being sent back for some modifications (removable canti Bosses, moved rear disc brake to chainstay)
Shot of the frame left side:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/Ti%20Bike/DSC04860.jpg?t=1232047697

Shot of the rear of the frame:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/Ti%20Bike/DSC04861.jpg?t=1232047798

Shot of the right side of frame:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/Ti%20Bike/DSC04863.jpg?t=1232047861

Shot of the fork
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/Ti%20Bike/DSC04864.jpg?t=1232047906

Sounds very nice. Out of curiosity, how much does something like this cost to have built? You don't have to answer, of course.

the frame list price was just under 2500.00 not including the Titanium S&S couplers (800.00 list), the fork somewhat under 500.00. Compared to a Moots Mootour frame, very affordable, considering their base price and the cost of each and every customization.

why do you have two different brake options?

like i said, for flexability. I might want to someday use canti brakes, myself. And if I sell the frame someday, the new buyer might want canti brakes instead of discs.

and i intend to tour in some very out of the way places, where Avid road BB7s might night not be available, but canti brakes might be easily found. I like options

Congrats on the new bike. Definitely post some photos when you get her built up...:thumb:

Mmmm, pretty frame. What is the purpose of the cups over the front drop outs? Do provide more bike porn as it comes to life.

...also, I like your choice of rear caliper mount location on the chain stay. My guy wouldn't put it there.

fantastic piece of work,it must be so light and super strong.do you have your groopset sorted.what other gear have you got for that beauty.as vik said please post some (lot's) pic's as soon as possible.

Very nice frame and well thought out. Can't say much about their logo...:-)

crank and der's are shimano XTR - I want a 172.5mm crank and thats not available on the other shimano MTB cranks- cassette is SRAM, 44-36-22 rings are Salsa. most of the other components are in the first post.

I'll be pulling an extrawheel voyager trailer, the 2009 model, which packs for airline travel better than the 'classic' model.

it looks to me that the 'cups' over the front dropouts are to rim the end of the fork,note that these do not taper into the dropout -

I'll post a frame and fork weight monday.

Just heard from Mike, at Aberdeen Bicycle in Chelsea that this fork has a breezer style dropout. The advantage of this style of dropout is mainly to the builder who is freed from having to roughly match their frame angles to the angles of the braze-in tab on a conventional dropout. It is Joe Breeze, who developed them originally, for whom they are named. The tabless design allows for almost any fork to dropout angle. for a pict of some breezer dropouts, see

http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/frame/dropouts/dropout.html

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4062.jpg?t=1232458528

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4063.jpg?t=1232458553

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4055.jpg?t=1232458623

Considering this is a fork designed for a disc brake for a bike that is a cross between a touring bike and a cycloscross bike, 640 grams seems pretty reasonable, I think.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4059.jpg?t=1232458644

I am really happy about the 1920 gram TI frame... Mind you, one sees a lot of 1500-1600 gram racing frames in TI, (and some are even less, down to under 1200g). Keep in mind that this includes the weight of the Titanium S&S couplers somewhere around 260 grams for the pair. This frame is built to take some abuse, so the weight is, to me, really good.

The welds on this frame are remarkable.
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4062.jpg?t=1232503701

the bottom bracket area

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4063.jpg?t=1232503772

Here the fork crown race is going on
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4084.jpg?t=1232503831

crown race installed

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4086.jpg?t=1232503959

Use Antiseize compound wherever metal contacts the titanium frame...

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4087.jpg?t=1232504217
using the headset press is harder than I thought it would be

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4090.jpg?t=1232504077"]http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4090.jpg?t=1232504077

et voila!

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/ti%20b%20ike%20day%20one%20%20-%20the%20headset/DSCN4091.jpg?t=1232504292

Still day one - installing a front deraileur

going to need these shims for my size of seat tube

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4133.jpg?t=1232548278

fastening the derailleur to the tube
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4135.jpg?t=1232548394

this is looking pretty snazzy - I start imagining the front der efficiently selecting rings as I pedal through the mountains of China
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4137.jpg?t=1232548483

DANGER, WILL ROBINSON. Yeeks. this clearance looks a tad tight. WAY TIGHT. Hmmmm. Not GOOD, I am thinking. No room for this deraileur let alone room for a fender. This is a A Schwalbe Marathon in a 35. Our frame spec said I would be able to get a 45 in here. Hmmmm. Need a different derailleur for sure, and even then will a fender fit in there?? and will a 45 tire?? I am starting to get hives thinking about what's up here... Only three weeks until I depart for China, and this is a... well... a surprise for sure


http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4144.jpg?t=1232549830

Ok, so a tiagra road derailleur "sorta" fits, so an Ulltegra will too... I'd rather use the XTR derailleur, but on my trek 520 the Tiagra worked with the Deore crank (and the 22 tooth small ring) I had on it... I still don't see room for a fender, let alone a fender and a 45 tire...

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4149.jpg?t=1232550104

Oh, well, forget about the derallieur here is a shot looking down the at the clearance between the 35 tire and the chainstays. about 1mm. I think something needs to go back to the frame builder. Like... the frame.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4236.jpg?t=1232550267

and here is a close up, looking down at the chainstays and the inside edge of the rim. The chainstays clearly have to be reformed to provide enough clearance for a 45 tire, and lengthened to provide clearance between a 45 tire and the seat tube, to allow a fender and an XTR front derailleur clamp. 3 weeks until I depart. Is this enoughh time??

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4238.jpg?t=1232550327

Here is the bike thus far. We talked to the builder, who by the way has been VERY responsive all along, and he agrees to turn the frame around as fast as he can. There is plenty of time. We are sending the frame and ALL the components to him tomorrow, so he will have all the parts, rebuild the rear of the frame, and even build the whole bike and ship it back in time for me to finish my planning and packing for China. I have a lot of time in China, so will do the shakedown cruise in and around Kunming before I leave for any tour.

So Tomorrow (Tuesday), Mike and I will finish enough of the bike so we can dial in the fit, the reach, the seat height, etc. Wednesday, the airline case should arrive from S&S, and we'll to a breakdown and pack exercise, then the whole shebang jets off to Colorado and the builder gets busy. I must say, despite this snaffu, I am most impressed with how the three of us (me - Mike - owner of Aberdeen Bike in Chelsea Michigan and James of Black Sheep Bikes) are pulling together as a team.

And the bike will be fit tomorrow (Tuesday), I dont expect any surprise there, and it will probably ride like a dream, and its already a work of art too. And three whole weeks to do it. piece of cake
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20front%20der%20and%20OOPS/DSCN4151.jpg?t=1232551554

So Tomorrow (Tuesday), Mike and I will finish enough of the bike so we can dial in the fit, the reach, the seat height, etc. Wednesday, the airline case should arrive from S&S, and we'll to a breakdown and pack exercise, then the whole shebang jets off to Colorado and the builder gets busy. I must say, despite this snaffu, I am most impressed with how the three of us (me - Mike - owner of Aberdeen Bike in Chelsea Michigan and James of Black Sheep Bikes) are pulling together as a team.

I may have missed it, but what are you sending the frame back for?

go three posts back and looks at picts 4, 6 and 7 - in 6 and 7 there is only 1 mm clearance between the chainstays and the size 35 tire. thats too little to allow for any side wheel flex at all, and a 45 tire is supposed to fit according to our spec (and it wont fit at all), and also the in pict 4 chainstays are too short for even a 35, cant get an XTR front derailleur clamp and the rear fender (not shown since there is zero clelarance already) between the seatpost and the tire.

so the chainstays need to be formed - bent to allow tire clearance instead of straight the way they are now, and lengthened a couple of cm. maybe 3. we'll see. our wheelbase is already pretty short, (in the rear 430cm) ok to go out.

Thanks for posting the excellent photos. The bike's looking very cool indeed! Sorry to hear about the screw up with the stays though.
You know, while they're fixing the frame, they might be able to braze-on a fourth set of water bottle bosses just above the down tube ones. There just might be some room. Or if isn't enough, the top boss of the existing two down tube bosses could be moved down towards the BB, then becoming the lower boss. (Does that make sense?) Maybe they'd do it free of charge, since they made a goof up. If there's time before your trip, why not?

well, it turns out that the bottle mounts are much too low already. think about uncoupling the S&S couplers for shipping in the airline legal box. I'd like to be able to un-couple the S&S couplers without removing the bottle cage (on the lower seat tube), so those mounts are moving up the tube as part of the revisions. and note that there is pump peg, so an 'old school' pump will hang below the top tube. so there is no room for an additional bottle cage on the seat tube. three water bottle are plenty, considering I can carry water plenty of other places (back of the seat, on the back rack, in the extrawheel I am taking with me, etc.

soon, pictures will be posted from the second day - wherein we finish the bike to the point that the seat position and stem length and fork tube length can be dialed in, and we ride the bike around Mikes new store (its 20 degrees outside here in Michigan) and break the bike down and pack it for shipping back to the frame builder

Day 1, part two, The stem, cassette, rear derailleur, and a large stack of spacers, many of these will get removed as we dial in the fit later.
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4093.jpg?t=1232625365

The wheels have arrived from a wheel builder, and we have installed the cassette
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4099.jpg?t=1232625542

The rear derailleur has been installed. Note the removable titanium dropout/der hanger. If it gets bent, I have spares
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4102.jpg?t=1232625566

Wipe out any grease from the bottom bracket. Grease and TI is BAD combination. makes things stick later. Wipe on some antiseize compound
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4105.jpg?t=1232625725

put on the right side adapter
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4107.jpg?t=1232625814

tighten that baby
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4108.jpg?t=1232625864

screwing in the left side adapter
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4110.jpg?t=1232625905

go three posts back and looks at picts 4, 6 and 7 - in 6 and 7 there is only 1 mm clearance between the chainstays and the size 35 tire. thats too little to allow for any side wheel flex at all, and a 45 tire is supposed to fit according to our spec (and it wont fit at all), and also the in pict 4 chainstays are too short for even a 35, cant get an XTR front derailleur clamp and the rear fender (not shown since there is zero clelarance already) between the seatpost and the tire.

so the chainstays need to be formed - bent to allow tire clearance instead of straight the way they are now, and lengthened a couple of cm. maybe 3. we'll see. our wheelbase is already pretty short, (in the rear 430cm) ok to go out.

Thanks I knew the answer was there, but I didn't see it. Good luck with getting the mods done and the bike back quickly.

Do you intend on running fenders at all?

yes, regular fender with the 35 size marathons. with the 45's will go with something less 'regular' due to the large tire size.

Why are you going with Schwalbe Marathons and not the Marathon Plus or Supreme? Is it just what you had on hand to try fitting everything out? The SMP and Supreme seem to be better tires just with a larger price tag. But, I don't think cost is much of an issue with this bike.

with all due respect, marathon plus are rubbish rubber boat-anchors that benefit greatly from marketing. I love schwalbe tires (I currently have 4 different makes- marathon, big apple, fat frank, fat albert ) and all my bikes sport them. The marathons are already terribly tough, and have proven to be nearly flatproof even on an extended tour through goathead country... Last year I drank into the marathon-plus blue-strip kool aid, in order to fix a problem i didnt actually have, and regretted it from day one due to the sluggish ride of a porker tire.

maybe heaviness is your bag, but the added weight probably cost a grand to remove through the use of Titanium...

beautiful bike, another wonderful black sheep creation. Too bad about the problem with the stay sizing, it seems unusual for that to happen from what ive heard about them.

for another awesome black sheep mountain tourer look here:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1058635878_721da793fe.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianwickman/1058635878/in/set-72157600349065770/&usg=__MwKdSTlD1KBq9E4snnuauCCWPtg=&h=333&w=500&sz=81&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=HAZ3X0ZFQ_1v8M:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dblack%2Bsheep%2Bsliding%2Bdropouts%2Brohloff%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

double post

oh.... bother. take a breath fellow posters.

here we go.

"maybe heaviness is your bag, but the added weight probably cost a grand to remove through the use of Titanium..."

liked the thought so much, its posted twice...

look at the pictures. the tires are Marathon XR - an expedition tire. I liked the tread pattern and the comments of the riders that actually use for I want to use it for. EXPEDITION touring. thats it.

but here is the funny part:

looking at the schwalbe web site, all the pluses there are wire bead. you ever pack a bicycle case - this bike is really a tight fit -- really really tight - vertically.... I knew I'd wanting folding tires, or I'd end up using too much of the vertical space in the case - the bike barely fits as it is. Oh... I'll be carrying spares too. and NOT wire bead tires for that either.... FOLDING ones. We did a test fit already - tires came off early as we puzzled it out.

also - I like to carry a spare tire like I'm using, so that kinda means a folding tire too.... think about it...

on the schwalbe site, I can't even find a folding marathon Plus. All the ones I could find are wire bead. that kinda takes the plus's off the list, even before considering weight OR marketing hype.

Hi Jb,

Thanks for all the detail in this interesting thread.

Re: your troubles with tire clearance.

I am wondering, though, why the framebuilder ever put 43.5cm chainstays on this bike to begin with (as detailed in your original post) if you asked for clearance for 45c tires. The Surly LHT (for example) advertises it has clearance for 45c tires and its chainstays are 46cm long. To me, 43.5 cm chainstays on your frame are on the "short" side of acceptable anyway for a touring bike, even with smaller (32c) tires.

700c wheels plus 43.5cm chainstays says to me there was no way a big tire was going to fit.

I'm sure your framebuilder knows more about frames that I could ever hope to, but your pictures make this look like a huge (not a small) design miss.

Am happy he's cooperating with you but am wondering how this could have been missed...

BB

sorry about that diatribe, I was just so disappointed by the kludgyness of the marathon plusses that i rail against them at any opportunity! :) didnt mean to hijack your thread at all, I just hate those particular tires! Im sure that Marathon XR's will be the replacements for my marathons when they die...

I love the bike, truly... It reminds me of my primary ride, an SS coupled (retrofitted later) custom I had built about ten years ago (in steel, alas) with 26 inch wheels. its a very similar exped. tourer to yours, just less nice in about every way :)

for what its worth, my 26 inch wheeled tourer is sized for max of 50mm tires plus fenders, and has chainstays of 43.25 cm. I have no idea how blacksheep thought they would squeeze 700c wheels in essentially the same space, but Im glad they are willing to rectify it and turn the frame around.

I suppose even the best of us make head slapping mistakes every so often, especially in times of stress. It does seem like a bit of a whopper though.

The important thing with any mistake though is taking the responsibility and doing what you can to rectify it which the frame builder seems to be doing.

yup, yeppers and yes...

we figure we'll have another 3 cm in the chainstays. the important part is that its an oversight that is been cheerfully addressed. bet it doesnt happen again.

we asked for that length, and w2e asked for 45's, so it was just missed. heck, the 35's dont even fit in the chainstays, and thats because the chainstays are straight, not formed... all being fixed.

soon I'll get back to some photos....

honestly, it will be a better ride for the longer stays, I think... so its a hassle, but a good thing to have happen in the long run.

i bet you are dead on right, positron

but wait, something looks wrong
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4111.jpg?t=1232718882

when you do a build, don't be like us. Read the directions for the crank install first, THEN install the crank
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4113.jpg?t=1232718964

We SO left out the spacers, now they are in there
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4115.jpg?t=1232719052

and install the retaining bolt - d'ont tighten yet
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4117.jpg?t=1232719089

and set the bearing preload
loosen the adjustment nut fixing bolt and put on the TL-FC17R and use it to turn the adjustment nut to adjust play or looseness in the connection, then remove the TL-FC17R and tighten the adjustment nut fixing bolt
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4118.jpg?t=1232719210

bearing preload is adjusted, the TL-FC17R adjustment gizmo still has not been removed.
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4119.jpg?t=1232719311

I am not new to tools, but I AM new to bike building and repair. So as an exercise, Mike teaches me how to remove the crank.

I used a TL-FC35, which is another gizmo tool provided with the crank set. Use the "short pin side" TL-FC35 on the pointing "in" to engage the indentations in the crank arm cap and unscrew the crank arm cap (reverse threads on this one), and remove the crank arm cap (grasped fingers in photo).
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4124.jpg?t=1232719482

turn the TL-FC35 around and screw it in counterclockwise until it bottoms out. Make sure its been turned in at least 3.5 revoltutions or more or it may strip when you use the allen wrench to remove the crank. Turn the 8mm allen wrench clockwise to remove the crank
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4125.jpg?t=1232719772

Presto!
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/raventalking/day%201%20stem%20and%20crank/DSCN4128.jpg?t=1232719915

very cool, those cranks look amazing.

just curious if you considered a rohloff drivetrain with this custom project? If I was having such a frame built now, I would be really tempted by that route. Just wondering if the thought crossed your mind, and what your thought process might have been?

Also, what fenders are you planning to use? what racks? (you might have mentioned already, if so, sorry)

others recommended it. I nixed it. it requires special dropouts (meaning you'll be locked into rohloffs forever, I'd guess), and I can carry a spare Derailleur (and in fact I am, a deore der), and know how to fix and allign them. note that even the rear der hanger on t his bike is replacable, should one get bent). think remote china - where in china ANYWHERE to get a roholff hub repaired??

I know they are supposed to be reliable. but bottom line, its about touring, say in nepal, remote china, northern india. can always deal with a derailleur myself.

also, according to sheldon browns website, the lowest rohloff gear you can get is 18.6 gear inches, (assuming same crenk length and tires I am using) -- i like the lowest low I can still pedal and stay up.

i like A LOW granny, and my low granny is 17.6 gear inch. any lower and its hard to stay upright at 60RPM cadence (would be going 3.1 MPH at 60 cadence). low is good. high i dont care so much about, except on this build we went 46-11 for the high, gives you top speed of 27 MPH at 80 cadence. My last tour bike had 44-11 for the high, and i want more top end on this bike.

i'll get back about the fenders. cant remember. the racks are being made at Black Sheep, they are TI. lowriders on the front, regular rack, though set back, for the rear.

However, I wont be using them much as I will be pulling the new Extrawheel Voyager trailer. Last year I used the Extrawheel Classic, and it was just great in every way. the voyager will pack better for shipping on airlines.

SKS fenders.

others recommended it. I nixed it. it requires special dropouts (meaning you'll be locked into rohloffs forever, I'd guess)...snip...

fair enough, just curious as I've heard only good things from the few that I know whove used rohloff. For the record, not that it matters to you now, but merely for accuracy's sake for other readers: The use of paragon sliding dropouts (the route I would choose) means that any of their dropouts can be bolted on in a modular fashion. One could easily have a set of rohloff dropouts, as well as a set of standard vertical dropouts with hanger, 6 bolts being used to swap between them. Incidentally they make disk and non disk dropouts as well. pretty neat.

cant blame you for going the standard deraileur route though. :thumb:

of course I see your point. was not thinking. custom bike, build it to use their dropouts and can switch them later. thanks for that clarification.

Isn't Black Sheep a company specialized in funky looking TI 29ers? Maybe that's why they missed out the whole chainstay issue. 2 or 3 mm doesn't sound too much to somebody not used to touring, but I can tell you that a 45mm or + chainstay makes a heap of a difference on a *real* touring bike.

No offense, but the cost of your bike with all your gear will be worth more than some villages you will be going through. Again, I respect the going all out thing on your touring bike, you are realising the dream of many tourers I'm sure.

What wheels and hubs are you going to use?

Good luck with your tour,

thanks for the concern. I am pulling a trailer with this bike. I had a real touring bike, and I sold it in favor of this build.

a trailer, thats how I tour, so the design is not like a real touring bike. I dont want it to be. even if we add three cm to the stays, the wheelbase is the same as a specialized tricross, and still 20 cm shorter than a "real" touring bike (a 2008 54 cm trek 520). and thats a good thing, since I'll never load the bike much (using an Extrawheel, as I've noted before). I want it shorter than a real touring bike, I wanted it a LOT shorter, but am willing to make it longer so I can use a 45 cm tire. CHinese roads where I am going are largely cobblestone. a 35 tire may work fine, but I want options here. I also ride on gnarly forest service roads here in NM (this on my tricross) and want the 45 option here in NM too. this is NOT a real touring bike, way more possibilities with this ride. its more of a cross between the tricross and a trek and a specialized roubaix (note the 150 cm head tube on this bike).


no offense??? I am not offended by your suggestion that this is an expensive bicycle. The offense you commit is not against me.... its against the chinese villagers.

the worth of small chinese villages cannot in any way be compared to a bicycle. I am going to China precisely for one and only one reason, to do volunteer work to help preserve and protect the immense cultural heritage of these agricultural oases from forces which share ideas similar to those you expressed that these villages aren't "worth much". These forces would have the villagers move into apartments in a city, to work in factories there, or alternatively would seek to turn their villages into cultural disneylands for the benefit of hoards of culturally insensitive tourists hosted by outsiders masquerading as locals, dressed in the garb of the villagers, and pocketing the funds rightfully due the villagers.

My bicycle touring will serve as a vehicle for the raising of funds to aid in the preservation of the lifestyle of one such village. There is tremendous value in these small villages, value that needs protection against a future that seems intent on wiping them out..

oh, right. what wheels and hubs, you asked.

chris king ISO hubs, stainless steel drive shell on the rear, dt swiss straight stainless spokes, 700c 36 hole salsa delgado cross rims. these are already built. the Extrawheel trailer wheel is 700c delgado cross rim, same spokes laced to a DT front hub, cant remember which. keep in mind the trailer wheel can be used as a spare front wheel in a pinch, or re-laced as a back wheel in a real emergency.

no offense??? I am not offended by your suggestion that this is an expensive bicycle. The offense you commit is not against me.... its against the chinese villagers.

the worth of small chinese villages cannot in any way be compared to a bicycle. I am going to China precisely for one and only one reason, to do volunteer work to help preserve and protect the immense cultural heritage of these agricultural oases from forces which share ideas similar to those you expressed that these villages aren't "worth much". These forces would have the villagers move into apartments in a city, to work in factories there, or alternatively would seek to turn their villages into cultural disneylands for the benefit of hoards of culturally insensitive tourists hosted by outsiders masquerading as locals, dressed in the garb of the villagers, and pocketing the funds rightfully due the villagers.

My bicycle touring will serve as a vehicle for the raising of funds to aid in the preservation of the lifestyle of one such village. There is tremendous value in these small villages, value that needs protection against a future that seems intent on wiping them out..

I guess I can't really speak for that poster but I didn't really read their post like you seem to. I read the post as meaning the worth of the village strictly from a monetary perspective. As in, if these people were to sell their property and homes to Disneyland they would get XXXX amount of money which is less than your bicycle which costs XXXX amount of money. I assume that cultural worth was not put in a monetary sense(since it can't) by that poster. Of course maybe I am the one who has misread their post and they actually do mean what you think.

indeed, I see your point - my apologies to forum member Zoro for making that assumption.

It was only a gross gross comparaison. I did not intend to negelect the cultural value of a certain village, country or population. AHH the joy of forum boards, the dangers of being misinterpreted.

Nice wheels by the way, and good thing you can have a complete spare wheel while you're out there.