Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - value of a mario confente

ok. as you know i have a confente. now what is a realistic value for this bike? i have seen and heard of many varied opinions but i would guess between 6-10 thou. the one on ebay sold for over 7 and it was repaint and had added parts so mine is all original. also, besides ebay, where does one go to find interested buyers? i know of vintage bike shows in california but are those for show or buy and sell? thanks

I would think ebay would capture a multitude of international bidders. You might contact some people that know Confentes... they might also know whose looking for one... CyclArt, Brian Baylis. Join and post to the Classic Rendezvous forum:

read here:

http://search.bikelist.org/

join here (somewhere):

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/main.htm

humour us mortals who cannot afford your bicycle and show us some photos so we can dream.

Pretty please?

http://images.craigslist.org/3k63o13p311012313591j0ccef3d637f91f9e.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3k93pa3l61f813214891j708e3109d6641468.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3m83p03l811912414191jef82d3ec7c531e51.jpg

thanks for the information. i had it on ebay and for some reason they suspended me. one message they sent me said i needed to pay the 22.00 fee on some ebay items so i paid it but then they said about someone might be trying to get personal info on me. anyway ive had it with ebay so the other alternatives are very welcome. thanks again. ps. what is the value in your opinion-you should know as you are a leading expert if anyone is.:thumb:

thanks for those pics. those are a few i took and have others but i dont know how to put them on. DOES ANYONE GUESS WHAT A CONFENTE IS WORTH IN TODAYS MARKET? ive tried several times but my guess doesnt seem correct.

I wish I could help you out, but I know little about your bike. What I do know (completed auctions, etc) leads me to believe the $7-10K is correct. As much as you hate it, ebay will probably get your best price. Maybe a friend can help out with their account?

Also, as suggested above, out the bike to the CR list. They will get the word out and there are many on the list who can afford the bike.

You could try Craig's List, but I think you would get at least a 20-1 crackpot to legitimate interest ratio through that.

BTW, beautiful bike. My size too.

DOES ANYONE GUESS WHAT A CONFENTE IS WORTH IN TODAYS MARKET?

FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, CONSERVATIVELY.

-Kurt

here is a possibility:

From: "Steven Maasland" <themaaslands(AT)comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:32:06 -0400
Subject: [CR]Gianna Confente looking for a Confente bike

Gianna Confente who lives in Verona Italy, the sister of Mario, is
looking for a Confente bike as a sort of family memorial to Mario.
Nobody in the extended Confente family has one of Mario's bikes and they
would like to get one. I have given them an idea as to what the going
rate for Confente bikes, and while quite shocked, they seem to
nonetheless be interested in "buying" a bike. Can anybody put me in
touch with anybody who might have one available for sale?

Steven Maasland
Moorestown, NJ
USA

thanks to everyone for the help. im going to try cr and the other reference as well. ive tried craigslist as some of you know and the buyers for that dont seem to be in my area(cal). too bad they dont have a barret jackson auction for bikes.

Apparently, the recent $7,000 Confente on ebay was purchased by the family.

Hey Joe, I've seen some of your bikes posted on craigslist. Here is a link to a free webhost for your pictures so you can show-off the rest of your bikes in here. Picture heavy post are fine with me.8)
http://photobucket.com/

too bad they dont have a barret jackson auction for bikes.

Because - thankfully - we have far more people who are in the hobby for the joy of riding and feasting their eyes on classic steeds then we have rich egomaniacs trying to outdo each other setting records for price paid for XYZ muscle car toy (which will be promptly re-sold in 3-5 years once the novelty wears off).

Confucius say: Man who try getting filthy rich selling rare bike more likely to get filthy carpet from unsold bike peeing oil on floor for five years.

If you want the big bucks, just eBay it and hope someone will pay your price.

-Kurt

Confucius say: Man who try getting filthy rich selling rare bike more likely to get filthy carpet from unsold bike peeing oil on floor for five years.

:lol: I didn't realize this Confente has a Sturmey Archer hub.



If you want the big bucks, just eBay it and hope someone will pay your price.


I agree, pay the extra money to have a long auction too, with lots and lots of pictures. I think your bike could drum up enough bids to fetch some serious cash. Maybe someone out there is really burning for one after losing the last auction.

-Matt

:lol: I didn't realize this Confente has a Sturmey Archer hub.

Peter Kohler once made a reference to a Sturmey hub leaking over his carpeting after having been on a well-deserved test ride; that is what inspired the gag.

I was about to change it to "bottom bracket grease," but since when does someone let a Confente get wet enough in the frame for the BB grease to lose viscosity and drip out the weep hole? Never. I figured the oil reference would pass, seeing that some of the racers back in the day would flush the grease out of their hubs on race day and run oil instead - just for that little friction advantage. I could imagine one of the road racing greats setting up his Confente in that fashion, so I stuck with it.

(Who knew that one joke would have such a story behind it?)

-Kurt

I thought the joke was funny, I wasn't picking on the grease/oil thing. I had a bike with an SA hub and it leaked everywhere, I developed OCD checking that the oil cap was always facing up (of course that is not the source, but it couldn't hurt). I have heard it referred to as english rust proofing. But thinking of a SA hub in a Confente does make me smile.

Please consider doing a good deed. I understand that the Confente family would be interested in having one of his bikes. Maybe you could sell the bike to the family at below market value but still make a nice chunk of change.

Firstly, for those who have mentioned it (and as has been pointed out): the Confente family has its bike - they bought the one recently on ebay. I don't personally feel they need to have two rather than someone else having one.
Secondly, you can sell at vintage bike events. Did you actually watch the Barett-Jackson car auction you referenced? I noticed that one guy who got top dollar for his cars really worked his sales - he was in the staging area morning until night talking to interested potential buyers about them. This kind of things works wonders. It says, "I'm really interested in these things and know what I'm doing, not just out to make a buck."
Joe, you really seem like a nice enough guy. But you don't seem like a guy who really cares about that Confente beyond its monetary value, much less about vintage bikes in general. You seem to consider "WHAT A CONFENTE IS WORTH IN TODAY"S MARKET" like it was a barrel of crude or a ton of copper - like a commodity. That's off-putting to some collectors. It may be that in "today's market," buying a bike and trying to flip it a few months or a year later for a huge profit (and your initial craiglist asking price was frankly outrageous) is not a reliable means of making a quick buck.
Yes, the ebay Confente got full value (IMO) given it's condition. But guess what? - the seller had tons of good pictures of the bike. He was also a knowledgable collector (and former bike shop owner) who was vouched for to the vintage bike community by a number of respected vintage bike folks. He also was willing to risk the bike in an auction style format, and chanced getting less than full value as a result; you seem to want no risk and all reward. By contrast, your official introduction to the CR list community demonstrated an unwillingness or inabliity to read the list rules before posting.
If you are really willing to sell the bike, and not simply announce "Confente!" to the world and expect it to beat a path to your door, you might find that you get pretty close to your $9000 asking price.

Firstly, for those who have mentioned it (and as has been pointed out): the Confente family has its bike - they bought the one recently on ebay. I don't personally feel they need to have two rather than someone else having one.
Secondly, you can sell at vintage bike events. Did you actually watch the Barett-Jackson car auction you referenced? I noticed that one guy who got top dollar for his cars really worked his sales - he was in the staging area morning until night talking to interested potential buyers about them. This kind of things works wonders. It says, "I'm really interested in these things and know what I'm doing, not just out to make a buck."
Joe, you really seem like a nice enough guy. But you don't seem like a guy who really cares about that Confente beyond its monetary value, much less about vintage bikes in general. You seem to consider "WHAT A CONFENTE IS WORTH IN TODAY"S MARKET" like it was a barrel of crude or a ton of copper - like a commodity. That's off-putting to some collectors. It may be that in "today's market," buying a bike and trying to flip it a few months or a year later for a huge profit (and your initial craiglist asking price was frankly outrageous) is not a reliable means of making a quick buck.
Yes, the ebay Confente got full value (IMO) given it's condition. But guess what? - the seller had tons of good pictures of the bike. He was also a knowledgable collector (and former bike shop owner) who was vouched for to the vintage bike community by a number of respected vintage bike folks. He also was willing to risk the bike in an auction style format, and chanced getting less than full value as a result; you seem to want no risk and all reward. By contrast, your official introduction to the CR list community demonstrated an unwillingness or inabliity to read the list rules before posting.
If you are really willing to sell the bike, and not simply announce "Confente!" to the world and expect it to beat a path to your door, you might find that you get pretty close to your $9000 asking price.

+1 Very well put!!

I read this thread without knowing who Mario Confente was and what he was about. I said to myself, 'another Italain who tried to make it big.' Not understanding the comotion I researched and actualy came away feeling sad for the guy. Not because he died at a young age but becasue of what happened to him along his journey of life. It seemed as if people were always taking advantage of Mario for his skill, dragging him away from his family in Italy to California then New Jersey and back to California. All because of buisness men who wanted to profit from his talent.

A man Mario is only happy in his workshop building and crafting. It seems as if he was never settled enough in one place to settle in and enjoy what it is he loved to do.

Th who's who of Italian cycling went to him.....Mario Confente to have their bikes built. He didnt go to them looking for work.

Firstly, for those who have mentioned it (and as has been pointed out): the Confente family has its bike - they bought the one recently on ebay. I don't personally feel they need to have two rather than someone else having one.
Secondly, you can sell at vintage bike events. Did you actually watch the Barett-Jackson car auction you referenced? I noticed that one guy who got top dollar for his cars really worked his sales - he was in the staging area morning until night talking to interested potential buyers about them. This kind of things works wonders. It says, "I'm really interested in these things and know what I'm doing, not just out to make a buck."
Joe, you really seem like a nice enough guy. But you don't seem like a guy who really cares about that Confente beyond its monetary value, much less about vintage bikes in general. You seem to consider "WHAT A CONFENTE IS WORTH IN TODAY"S MARKET" like it was a barrel of crude or a ton of copper - like a commodity. That's off-putting to some collectors. It may be that in "today's market," buying a bike and trying to flip it a few months or a year later for a huge profit (and your initial craiglist asking price was frankly outrageous) is not a reliable means of making a quick buck.
Yes, the ebay Confente got full value (IMO) given it's condition. But guess what? - the seller had tons of good pictures of the bike. He was also a knowledgable collector (and former bike shop owner) who was vouched for to the vintage bike community by a number of respected vintage bike folks. He also was willing to risk the bike in an auction style format, and chanced getting less than full value as a result; you seem to want no risk and all reward. By contrast, your official introduction to the CR list community demonstrated an unwillingness or inabliity to read the list rules before posting.
If you are really willing to sell the bike, and not simply announce "Confente!" to the world and expect it to beat a path to your door, you might find that you get pretty close to your $9000 asking price.

+1,000!

I've never heard it put better. Your text should be framed and stickied for all to read and understand.

-Kurt

P.S.: One little thing though - IIRC, there was a second group of Mario's relatives who were interested in owning a Confente - some mention was made in the earlier Confente thread.

P.S.: One little thing though - IIRC, there was a second group of Mario's relatives who were interested in owning a Confente - some mention was made in the earlier Confente thread.

Good point - I do recall that. I was merely suggesting that I don't think the collector community should feel obligated to step back from the bike or be denied an opportunity to acquire it, now that one Confente has returned to the fold.

hay guys. quit beating up on me. first of all i love vintage bikes and everything associated with them. i own 13 other vintage bikes and ride them all the time. im sure all of you have sold a bike you love for some reason or other at one time or another. trust me i would rather keep my bike but for personal reasons i would like to sell it. anyway i have had trouble with ebay and security concerns like id theft. i may have to put it back on however which i would rather not. i have owned the confente for several years and have enjoyed it every minute even though i never ride it-too paranoid about crashing. as far as getting top dollar-well id be pretty dumb not to try to get as much as i could out of it. you guys are the same way im sure.anyway this is too long of a reply. thanks again for the insight and responses.ps i did screw up on classic rendevouz-those guys are very picky about how one advertises stuff.

I wouldn't sweat it. Trust me, everyone on the CR list knew about the bike from the first moment you ever posted it. Post it on CL or Ebay and it gets around most of the lightweight collectors' forums. As mentioned, ebay opens the international market in a way CL or these forums don't.

The challenge of internet sales is creating a sense of trust with potential buyers. This may mean becoming a member of an online community first (if trying to sell within that community) or creating listings with exhaustive details and lots of large, well composed photographs.

I'm guessing you're probably more comfortable talking to people directly, hence your spartan ads. Unfortunately, this sends up red flags for some, who may interpret your ad as a scam or the fact that you're 'hiding' something.

If you have received calls, have they been positive? Have you received offers? As you can tell, your bike doesn't have a fixed value. The montetary value is something that will have to be negotiated between you and the buyer.

Good luck.

your right. im new to the whole computer ebay advertising thing. i had my sister put the bike on ebay 6 months ago but she screwed it up. i just got my first computer(believe it or not) although i use one at work(not for advertising). most of the calls ive received have been positive and informative although some crackpots as well. i know i dont have the reputation i need on ebay to encourage buyers thats why i would hope the really serious buyer would come and look at the bike in person even if it is far to come. i know in other collectable fields, collectors come from all over to look and purchase items in person. anyway thanks again. joe

I don't think any of the earlier comments were meant to be personal, I do think they contain some solid advice though. To get top dollar for your bike you need to market it a bit, prime the pump (and there is nothing wrong with wanting top dollar). Your sales ad should contain lots of info about the history of your particular bicycle and the man who made it. Now is also the time to show off details like paint and masterful lug work. To sell for 9,000+ I would even suggest getting professional pictures taken. I would try to get in contact with someone who had connections to Mario or Masi and build a reputation of reliability and trustworthiness with them. You are selling the bicycle equivalent to the Mona Lisa, and anyone dropping that kind of coin wants history and information. I realize that computers are not your strong suit, but this bike is worth the effort. Use your ad to ignite the flame of emotion and passion in your buyers and you will maximize your potential profit and minimize your risk.

thanks alot. you guys are great. any time your in nor cal give me a ring. great bike riding in the sierras. joe

Joe,

One point I've not seen so far. CR list is rather picky about sign offs etc. but Dale (who runs it) is
pretty forgiving, especially when it comes to 'internet newbies'. You might try emailing him directly
and ask for advice about getting reinstated, and how to word your advert (don't ask how much it's
worth that is heavily frowned upon).
when you do advertise it, take huge amounts of pictures, be honest in describing any damage to
paint etc. and do discuss how you managed to buy the bike from Jock Boyer. These will all help
you sell the bike. Go browse ebay for high dollar bikes ( look at completed auctions) and see what
kind of photo's and verbage they used. There is a really good advert for a De Rosa (see most beautiful bike thread in C&V for link) that Speedcycles posted (a well known successful seller).

Marty

thank you sir for the advice. i will try what you said about cr. yeah, the boyer story is pretty cool. the guy is different thats for sure. he owns several confentes-the famous one is the one he won the first coors classic on-the one with the all american stars and stripes paint job. anyway thanks again. joe:thumb:

thank you sir for the advice. i will try what you said about cr. yeah, the boyer story is pretty cool. the guy is different thats for sure. he owns several confentes-the famous one is the one he won the first coors classic on-the one with the all american stars and stripes paint job. anyway thanks again. joe:thumb:

There are a couple black/white photos (not great) of Boyer riding a Confente in "The Complete Book of Long-Distance and Competitive Cycling" by Tom Doughty. Perhaps it's yours?

FWIW, it's a pretty good all-around cycling book, covering everything from repairs, training techniques, nutrition, racing techniques, etc. It's basic, but a good read for those of us who aren't quite as experienced. Lots of good (though B/W) photos of bikes and riders from the early 80s/late 70s (book was published in 83).

Joe's Confente has its detractors and friends in Chicago.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/1014841726.html
Re: MARIO CONFENTE - $9000 (loomis, cal) (California Sucks)
Reply to: see below
Date: 2009-01-31, 12:00AM CST

If you spent NEARLY that much for a bicycle, you must be the most arrogant prick in the world.
Maybe your frilly Cal buds think you're cool, but here you would get your head knocked in for wasting money.
Here in Chicago, we ride bikes. So put your "holy ****ing grail" bike back in the vault.

And the response:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/1014880749.html
Re: confente (bicycle history)
Reply to: sale-1014880749@craigslist.org [?]
Date: 2009-01-31, 1:28AM CST


$9000 is not out of reasonable range for a confente. Mario Confente is considered possibly the best framebuilder that ever lived. His lug work is off the wall: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Confente/Confente_48_1.htm, with cutouts in dropouts and stuff no one does. Pretty sure he carved the spades in the campagnolo brake lever pictured below.

Anyway, some of the hype is cause he died young and didn't make more than 140 frames bearing his own name. They basically belong in museums. He was a madman. He carved spades into campy downtube shifters, and his bottom brackets have spades carved out of them. Probably not great for keeping moisture out of bearing cups, but you don't ride a confente on a rainy day anyway. Not saying I buy into all the name brand hype, but if there's one to hype this might be it. I'm into function, so to me 80's Suntour was the best parts maker. As far as frames, a late 80's japaneese schwinn (i.e., http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1980_1990/1988_08.htm,) or a bridgestone (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1990/pages/bridgestone-1990-17.htm) is as good as any italian racer. But if you can pay 2 mil for a Van Gogh and call it justified, why not 9,000 for a bike by one of the greatest steel frame artisans of the final years of steel's 100 year dominance in the industry? Anyway, just the lowdown on Confente.

As someone from Chicago, the first guy is a very large d-bag and needs a life.

As someone from Chicago, the first guy is a very large d-bag and needs a life.

I think the first guy was probably close to the former governor ...

+1 Hard to get top value out of Craigs List, and you will get a lot of flakes.

+1 Hard to get top value out of ebay, unless you have perfect feedback (and lots of it) and feedback on bike shipments. And also you need to create a world class posting, with awesome pictures, the "right" details, etc. The great deals I have found on ebay were due in large part to the seller not doing his job in creating an accurate and attractive listing.

Given a seller with little/no feedback on ebay, the better option is Craigs List. But be prepared for all of the Craigs List crap.

I took a quick look at your numerous Craigs List postings on this bike. I do not see a way you are going to attract a buyer with the pictures you have on C/L. If you don't know how to do it, I would suggest you pay someone to assist you in doing it.

well guys-thanks to craigslist believe it or not i had a gentleman come by today who loved the bike-not afraid to spend the 9000. he said he would come next week to get it as i would not accept a check and banks closed early on sat. ps i reported that chicago nut to moderator. hes the great guy who actually flagged the confente because i put on chicago craigslist.

Good call on not taking a personal check.

Good call on not taking a personal check.

It would have been better to take a deposit check, say 3k. and call the Bank on Monday to verify funds.
Give the check back when the cash arrives.

+1 Deposit would have been best. Odd that someone comes out to see a $9,000 bike with no money. But I have never sold or bought a bike in that price range....

yeh. the guy travels two hours to get here but only has a check. i was going to get a deposit and he seemed willing but then he kind of just told me he would be back next week. im only with the bike on weekends as i work several hours away and stay in an apt while i work. the bikes are all at my house. anyway we agreed on a cashiers check and we would both go to bank-stays open til 1200 on sat and finalize it there. ill keep you informed:)