Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Italian BB's + LD riding = ?

do you think it's a bad (or good, or neutral) idea to use an italian-threaded BB on LD rides?

since they unscrew to the right on the drive side, they can come loose from pedaling - which is what happened to me this weekend (luckily on a short solo ride, not on a brevet!). the cranks were basically stuck, would barely turn, so it would have ended any ride.

and here's a pic, so you can see wtf i'm whining about:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3208591632_64664ca294.jpg?v=1232331949

so should i just slap some loc-tite on there? (LBS said it wasn't necessary before, that torque was enough - now they say it needs loc-tite)

does anyone else do LD rides (say 200k+) on an italian BB with no issues? anyone carry the crank-extractor/bb tool/etc on rides?

i just don't want to have to worry constantly that the bike will do this again.. it's a good bike and i've used it for a few 400k's last year.. and i don't want to not use it!

I'd say locktite it and put a lot of training miles on it. If it doesn't show any sign of loosening, you're probably OK.

You might want to carry the crank-extractor/bb tool/etc on the training rides, just in case it comes out 40 miles from home. Plus, the extra weight will make your training rides more effective. :)

Then again, if you've got your eye on a new bike, then I'd have to say it's a very bad idea to do any brevets on this one. You absolutely have to get that new bike. ;)

But since you seem otherwise happy with this one, you probably don't need to replace it. I'd be willing to bet that hundreds, if not thousands, of people have done PBP on bikes with Italian threaded BBs.

thanks for the tips - i'll feel a lot better about it with the loctite on there..



Then again, if you've got your eye on a new bike, then I'd have to say it's a very bad idea to do any brevets on this one. You absolutely have to get that new bike. ;)

yup, there's always that n + 1.. but it's a hard sell these days, as we're running out of space as it is. =]

i've got a surly pacer that i use as well, so i'm not too worried. i might just carry all the tools on brevets anyway, as they can't be more than a few pounds. i'll consider it "training" for PBP or something.


But since you seem otherwise happy with this one, you probably don't need to replace it. I'd be willing to bet that hundreds, if not thousands, of people have done PBP on bikes with Italian threaded BBs.

true indeed.

Interesting...that's a cartridge BB, right? The problem usually occurs on cup and cone BBs because of the rotational effect of the bearing balls on the cup, which tightens the cup on BSC threads.

Could it be it just wasn't tightened down snugly enough?

Loctite comes in several grades and BB threading surface area is large enough that
'excessive' (ie filling up the entire thread area) with a high binding capacity loctite
could present problems with later removal. All loctite can be removed but the
best method involves heating to 450-500F, not paint friendly, so what you want is
maybe 2-4 thread widths with loctite on them and the rest nude. You have to
degrease the threads for the loctite to work. Thread lockers strength is directly
proportional to surface area of the threading and BB are large diameter fine pitch
so have a lot of surface area compared with a 4-5-6mm diameter screws.
http://www.type2.com/library/chemicals/loctite.htm
This web site discusses various strenght thread lockers by loctite, 222 is readily
available and a likely candidate. Similar tables can be googled for other brands.
Thread locker should solve the problem, just be cautious about how much and
where you put it in BB use.

Interesting...that's a cartridge BB, right? The problem usually occurs on cup and cone BBs because of the rotational effect of the bearing balls on the cup, which tightens the cup on BSC threads.
yeah it's a centaur BB.


Could it be it just wasn't tightened down snugly enough?

seems like that's the case, i should have checked it more often (i checked maybe ever six months)..

Loctite comes in several grades and BB threading surface area is large enough that
'excessive' (ie filling up the entire thread area) with a high binding capacity loctite
could present problems with later removal. All loctite can be removed but the
best method involves heating to 450-500F, not paint friendly, so what you want is
maybe 2-4 thread widths with loctite on them and the rest nude. You have to
degrease the threads for the loctite to work. Thread lockers strength is directly
proportional to surface area of the threading and BB are large diameter fine pitch
so have a lot of surface area compared with a 4-5-6mm diameter screws.
http://www.type2.com/library/chemicals/loctite.htm
This web site discusses various strenght thread lockers by loctite, 222 is readily
available and a likely candidate. Similar tables can be googled for other brands.
Thread locker should solve the problem, just be cautious about how much and
where you put it in BB use.

thx for the info! hopefully the LBS knows about all this, as they're putting it back together for me.

thx for the info! hopefully the LBS knows about all this, as they're putting it back together for me.

If they installed it initially, they may not have torqued it down properly - despite what they may claim. I've got a Campy cartridge BB in an Italian thread shell and have had no issues yet.

If they installed it initially, they may not have torqued it down properly - despite what they may claim.

true - but i'm pretty sure they'll still do a better job since they have torque wrenches, and experience, and all.

maybe when i got it cleaned/re-packed a few months ago a "new mech" did the work? who knows. but i trust my LBS - and i'll know who to blame if it F's up again! =]

but i do want to get the tools and learn how to make these adjustments myself, for sure.

I had to pick up a guy on a double century where I was SAG-ing last year with a loose bottom bracket (not a featherweight cyclist). He told me that he had to quit PBP halfways because of the same problem with his Italian bike; and that his shop told him they had "fixed" it.
Me thinks, the "Italian" bottom bracket design is just a very stupid tradition.

Pull a Grant Peterson and slap some beeswax on it.

but i do want to get the tools and learn how to make these adjustments myself, for sure.

I did it myself. The torque rating is rather low, so I essentially snugged it down tight without popping any veins. I'm near 200 lbs, but I tend to spin rather than mash up hills, so it's possible mine would spin out as well if I were to flex the frame more aggressively.

I had to pick up a guy on a double century where I was SAG-ing last year with a loose bottom bracket (not a featherweight cyclist). He told me that he had to quit PBP halfways because of the same problem with his Italian bike; and that his shop told him they had "fixed" it.
Me thinks, the "Italian" bottom bracket design is just a very stupid tradition.

these are the kind of anecdotes i was afraid i'd hear..

I did it myself. The torque rating is rather low, so I essentially snugged it down tight without popping any veins. I'm near 200 lbs, but I tend to spin rather than mash up hills, so it's possible mine would spin out as well if I were to flex the frame more aggressively.

i'm 155#, and no sprinter, but i do like to mash so maybe that helped it unscrew..

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-56411.html



I had to pick up a guy on a double century where I was SAG-ing last year with a loose bottom bracket (not a featherweight cyclist). He told me that he had to quit PBP halfways because of the same problem with his Italian bike; and that his shop told him they had "fixed" it.
Me thinks, the "Italian" bottom bracket design is just a very stupid tradition.

I have used Italian bb for years and the only problems arose after I had removed and re-installed it. The threads are still fine. I have had an 'standard' bottom bracket come loose too. My recommendation is to get a torque wrench and look into the loctite.