Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - The Head and Heart Follow the Body?

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Neil_B
01-22-09, 09:27 AM
How many Clydes and Athenas have changed how they think as a result of losing weight? I don't mean how they think about food or exercise or bikes. How do you think about the world?

I can list three ways I've changed:

1. Now that I'm less of a man than I was, I am a better Christian. My faith was restored back in 2004, when I was 400 pounds, but it's only deepened and grown since I've lost the bulk of my excess weight.

2. Related to the first point, I'm a considerably more jovial man than I had been. Yes, I can be moody and irritable, as many a Clyde and Athena can attest to. (Quit giggling, Tom!) But my online temper seems to have moderated, and I'm less prone to get into flame wars and the like.

3 and finally, I've felt comfortable enough to not only be right, but Right. No more hiding National Review from friends. :-)

I don't know if these three items are changes in the sense that they are new to my nature, or that they emerged from the melting Neil as crocuses emerge from the melting spring snow. Was I a happy conservative Christian underneath the fat liberal curmudgeon I showed the world? Is it that I'm more comfortable being myself as I am more comfortable having a smaller and more mobile body? Or did having to undergo what many folks would consider an arduous struggle to lose weight change my thinking?

Comments, anyone? But please, let's keep this thread civil and out of the Politics and Religion group. Tom has enough to do getting better. :)


youcoming
01-22-09, 09:39 AM
The thing that has changed the most in my life is an increase in *** drive not hat I was lacking before but now that I fell better about how I look, may also help that my wife says it's like being with another guy...lol, may not be appropriate but hey you asked. I do tend to be a little more easy goiing and man I was laid back before.

Neil_B
01-22-09, 09:48 AM
The thing that has changed the most in my life is an increase in *** drive not hat I was lacking before but now that I fell better about how I look, may also help that my wife says it's like being with another guy...lol, may not be appropriate but hey you asked. I do tend to be a little more easy goiing and man I was laid back before.

No, that's a good point as well. :)


CACycling
01-22-09, 10:18 AM
For me, deepening faith precipitated changes in many areas of my life. I had drifted somewhat during the 90s. In 2001, my parents' health took a nosedive and they passed away that summer within a couple of months of each other. That started some soul searching and I started making changes. Quit smoking, quit a club that wasn't particularly healthy for me physically or spiritually, moved to a new church after 45 years attending the same one (this was for the sake of my sons but was a kickstart for me as well) and started cycling again 16 months ago.

So here I am facing the big 5 0 this year and I am a different person in many ways than I was 8 years ago. Good marriage has gotten better (yeah, the sex part too even after 25 years), good relationship with sons has gotten better (even though these represent their teenage years), spiritual life is growing constantly and I am definately healthier, physically and mentally, than I was when I was approaching 40.

I look ahead and, while life is good, I know it will only get better. Losing weight was a piece of the puzzle for me but there were, and are, many other factors at work.

Neil, enjoy the journey. And for those times when it seems to be getting tougher, remember that you are tougher as well. And keep moving forward!

Tom Stormcrowe
01-22-09, 10:52 AM
In my case, more optimism, better self confidence, and other positive changes have been a direct result. An ironic side effect has been a bit of notoriety as well, which can be quite intimidating. I get recognized in some of the darndest places. :p There has also been a distinct blurring of the line where privacy is concerned. It seems that to an extent, I've become a bit of a public figure, for good or ill.

Neil_B
01-22-09, 10:59 AM
In my case, more optimism, better self confidence, and other positive changes have been a direct result. An ironic side effect has been a bit of notoriety as well, which can be quite intimidating. I get recognized in some of the darndest places. :p There has also been a distinct blurring of the line where privacy is concerned. It seems that to an extent, I've become a bit of a public figure, for good or ill.

Publishing your writing makes you a public figure. So does giving interviews. In both cases, it's assumed you are writing or speaking ex cathedra - "from the seat of knowledge." Welcome to the club, Tom! :)

gotls1
01-22-09, 02:49 PM
I've noticed that I've become more confident and I no longer shy away from conflict at work. I'm not actively trying to pick a fight or anything, but if a situation presents itself I feel more prepared to defend my position.




3 and finally, I've felt comfortable enough to not only be right, but Right. No more hiding National Review from friends. :-)



This made me LOL. Since I live in the People's Republic of California, I haven't reached that level of confidence yet...

EasyEd
01-22-09, 03:21 PM
If I had to guess, I would say that the restoration of your faith is what started you on the path to the changes you mention. It has a sort of domino effect, defeating the things in your life that are holding you back, one after another. The weight loss is the most visible change, but not the first domino to fall.

Mr Danw
01-22-09, 04:26 PM
Great topic Neil.

I almost do not qualify to add to this because I have really never had to overcome the physical adversity as some of our brethren have. Overcoming adversity changes how one thinks. Losing weight brings better physical health and even a better outlook. I personally believe that the better outlook and changed thought process comes from overcoming a major obstacle in our lives. For many here that obstacle was and is weight loss, for some social acceptance and for some those go hand in hand.

Weight loss was the original goal of many and it becomes the means to dream of other goals.

Weight loss has little to do with the any major change in my life. I weighed maybe 225-230 at my heaviest. It never bothered me. I spent my youth as what I would consider very underweight. People saw my ribs when my shirt was off and subconsciously wanted to go to Chili's. But this is going somewhere related to life changing. As a young teen I found myself, through no fault of my own, homeless and hungry. Ever been hungry? Like eat a half a can of beans and save the rest because you don't know if there will be food coming your way the next day? At that point I was taken in by the father of a friend who was not your standard TV age dad. This guy was an old school biker. The kind of Harley rider who would grease his hair, put on his good boots, and put in his good teeth to ride with his wife on Friday night. The other bikers nick named this man Brother. He taught me about hard work. He taught me about life. This person changed my life.

Then I met my wife, she taught me about family and love. She too changed my life.

Two people changed the way I think. They each changed my life in their own way. Weight was not my obstacle to overcome. I was. My past was never to blame for anything, in fact, I credit my past for making met he man I am today.

I am still me, my outlook is the same, at 105#, 235# or 198#. I guess our thoughts and priorities and goals change as we overcome the major obstacles life throws our way and also by the people our lives cross paths with.

Rest in peace Brother.

adrien
01-23-09, 05:23 AM
Well, I'll answer for since getting fitter, as I haven't really lost much weight, just moved it around to better places.

1. I have more stamina, and more patience. I can get more done, and my thinking seems clearer.

2. Faith certainly deepened, though becoming a Dad probably had much more to do with that.

3. I'm more left. Seriously.

4. I do much more volunteer work, and it's very focused. I've been on a board for 2 years, and was just elected chair.

5. I'm a better daddy.

6. most importantly, I'm kinder

jboyd
01-23-09, 08:29 AM
I think I am still the same old jackass I've always been. I believe that age in general has attributed to my cynicism. I do however believe in being kind to people and hope for the same from others. I have noticed a heightened sense of compassion, more for animals than people. But again, I contribute that to possibly age and not fitness.

My spirituality has always been a very shallow pool. The loss of my best friend to suicide this year has only eroded this stance further. I have never been a highly competitive or confrontational, and those traits have not changed with increased fitness.

More energy? Sure!

Jay

PSR215
01-23-09, 09:21 AM
Ive come to completely distrust the standard American diet, doctors, cardiologists, hospitals, drug companies, drugs, restaurants, school teachers, the food industries, all government agencies connected with the food and drug industries, congress, the white house.. Im friggin paranoid! Theyre all out to kill me just to make a buck off of my sorry butt .

Neil_B
01-23-09, 09:27 AM
This made me LOL. Since I live in the People's Republic of California, I haven't reached that level of confidence yet...

I'm confident enough to post in The People's Republic of Touring, which is pretty much the same. :(

Neil_B
01-23-09, 09:28 AM
... my thinking seems clearer.


Anyone else experience this change? I find I make better decisions now. Not that I don't spend a lot of time thinking about them.

Neil_B
01-23-09, 09:38 AM
One point I didn't touch on in my initial post is choices. All of a sudden, I have a lot more of them. Before, a weekend was eating, reading, wasting time on the computer, listening to recorded music, writing.... Now I have all those plus riding, hiking, going to the gym, photography, meeting friends, planning a bike tour, listening to live music, etc. I have to deal with choice, which was never a problem I faced at 400 pounds.

A couple of posters mentioned appearance and relationships with the opposite sex. I mentioned last year a woman gave me her phone number. That was the first time I'd been 'picked up.' As odd as it was for me, I can't imagine how an Athena might feel when that happens to her.

Pinyon
01-23-09, 10:31 AM
I'm also a lot more social than I used to be. I guess that translates into confidence, as others have mentioned? I used to deliberately try to stay silent and in the background most-of-the-time. Mostly because of my weight.

It is very rare for people in my type of work to be fat at all (field biology, but I've really just worked as a computer/mapping/database geek for field biologist teams for years and years). When I was around 375 lbs, I was quietly asked not to come to meetings with outside agencies/companies and stuff like that on a regular basis. Not having to think about things like that, or stuff like fitting into chairs that have arm rests on the sides, etc. has made a HUGE difference in my life and outlook.

I also LOVE the increased number of choices that I have with respect to things that I like to do. Do I want to go to the gym, go on a hike, rock climb, whatever? Huge difference. I used to do the same things just about every week. Not anymore.

How people react towards me is also HUGE. For instance, the other week I showed up for spin class at my gym, and these two ladies started asking me about how to adjust the bikes to fit them. I figured it was because I was already warming up, and was closest to where their bikes. After I got them set up, they were totally confused when the class started, because they thought that I was the instructor! :lol: It never would have crossed my mind that such a mistake could EVER occur concerning me.

I get flirted with more often too. I have no idea how to deal with that either. Especially when they look at my wedding ring and flirt anyway. :eek: It usually takes me a few minutes to catch on too. I've been with my wife since the 80s, and am WAY out of practice in dealing with stuff like that.

The only potentially negative change is my loss in body strength. A lot of that is due to me replacing weight lifting with bicycling, and of course I'm getting older. I used to be able to just pick up heavy things with my hands. People would often ask me to help them move heavy stuff, and I was the guy that they brought into the field at work if there was any heavy equipment to move around. These days, if the object is over 300 lbs, I'm going to need help, and maybe a dolly to move it.

These days, I also have to really lean into pushing open doors with heavy springs, like you find at some stores and office buildings. I used to just stick my hand out and walk, and often had to really pay attention not to slam the door open by accident.

The biggest changes are increased freedom. I just love being able to ride my bike out into the countryside and into the mountains. I can go anywhere I want, and I like it.

wirehead
01-27-09, 06:05 PM
I don't think I'd realized just how important the sound-body/sound-mind thing was. My brain works much better post-cycling than it ever did pre-cycling. My mental focus is better and I'm generally much happier and probably friendlier.

Also, time. I'm a commuter cyclist and I tend to think that any time spent beyond my car commute time is outweighed by the added time where I'm really awake and able to think (as opposed to the crapy half-awake state where you can only watch TV or websurf)

I can't say I've shifted left or right because of biking, but then liberals think I'm charmingly conservative and conservatives have always found me frighteningly liberal. I have, given how much good this has done for me, become a passionate believer in a car-free / car-light future.

I'm also spending more time picking out clothes in the morning. Which is starting to get on my nerves. :P

txvintage
01-27-09, 07:20 PM
I've not responded to this thread earlier for a variety of reason. It's been very thought provoking, but the thought process has been in place for several months.

I've typed War and Peace three times and deleted it every time, just like I just did just now.

I don't know if I've changed so much as experienced an awaking of some long lost parts of me that I had passively let slip away.

Neil_B
01-27-09, 09:59 PM
I've not responded to this thread earlier for a variety of reasons. It's been very thought provoking, but the thought process has been in place for several months.

I've typed War and Peace three times and deleted it every time, just like I just did just now.

I don't know if I've changed so much as experienced an awaking of some long lost parts of me that I had passively let slip away.

Perhaps. Or they may have been parts of you that you never realized were there. For instance, I'd considered myself non-competitive by nature. It took fellow C/A poster Uncadan to point out to me that I not only kept notes on my rides, but clocked them as well. Even if I was only competing against myself, I was competing.

adrien
01-28-09, 01:16 PM
one more thing on me -- i've become more of an environmentalist. has to do with being outside more, and seeing the best and worst of what we have done to this planet. Why is it bike paths go through such ugliness and such prettiness?

txvintage
01-28-09, 01:30 PM
Perhaps. Or they may have been parts of you that you never realized were there. For instance, I'd considered myself non-competitive by nature. It took fellow C/A poster Uncadan to point out to me that I not only kept notes on my rides, but clocked them as well. Even if I was only competing against myself, I was competing.

No, I haven't had any new self realizations. I'm open to them though.

I realize I'm withholding some info here, and I apologize for that.

cohophysh
01-28-09, 01:53 PM
Great thread!

billydonn
01-28-09, 04:18 PM
... Even if I was only competing against myself, I was competing.

Perhaps it isn't important but, I would not call that competition.

com⋅pe⋅ti⋅tion   /ˌkɒmpɪˈtɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kom-pi-tish-uhn] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.: The competition between the two teams was bitter.
2. a contest for some prize, honor, or advantage: Both girls entered the competition.
3. the rivalry offered by a competitor: The small merchant gets powerful competition from the chain stores.
4. a competitor or competitors: What is your competition offering?
5. Sociology. rivalry between two or more persons or groups for an object desired in common, usually resulting in a victor and a loser but not necessarily involving the destruction of the latter.
6. Ecology. the struggle among organisms, both of the same and of different species, for food, space, and other vital requirements.

com·pete (kəm-pēt') Pronunciation Key
intr.v. com·pet·ed, com·pet·ing, com·petes
To strive against another or others to attain a goal, such as an advantage or a victory. See Synonyms at rival.

[Late Latin competere, to strive together, from Latin, to coincide, be suitable : com-, com- + petere, to seek; see pet- in Indo-European roots.]

billydonn
01-28-09, 04:22 PM
...
I don't know if I've changed so much as experienced an awaking of some long lost parts of me that I had passively let slip away.

Nice idea Tex! Well said. I have not come to Jesus or anything due to biking... but I darn sure do feel more fully alive.
:thumb:

Tom Stormcrowe
01-28-09, 05:36 PM
Respectfully, i disagree, based on context. In a Time Trial, for example, you are as much competing against your prior performances as you are against other time trial racers, and in endurance racing, you are more competing against yourself than you are your competitors, since the primary goal is to just finish as much as it is to finish faster than the others.

If you are comparing your results to prior results for the same course, i submit that you are competing with prior performances, and it's valid in the context.


Perhaps it isn't important but, I would not call that competition.

com⋅pe⋅ti⋅tion   /ˌkɒmpɪˈtɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kom-pi-tish-uhn] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.: The competition between the two teams was bitter.
2. a contest for some prize, honor, or advantage: Both girls entered the competition.
3. the rivalry offered by a competitor: The small merchant gets powerful competition from the chain stores.
4. a competitor or competitors: What is your competition offering?
5. Sociology. rivalry between two or more persons or groups for an object desired in common, usually resulting in a victor and a loser but not necessarily involving the destruction of the latter.
6. Ecology. the struggle among organisms, both of the same and of different species, for food, space, and other vital requirements.

com·pete (kəm-pēt') Pronunciation Key
intr.v. com·pet·ed, com·pet·ing, com·petes
To strive against another or others to attain a goal, such as an advantage or a victory. See Synonyms at rival.

[Late Latin competere, to strive together, from Latin, to coincide, be suitable : com-, com- + petere, to seek; see pet- in Indo-European roots.]

txvintage
01-28-09, 07:22 PM
Respectfully, i disagree, based on context. In a Time Trial, for example, you are as much competing against your prior performances as you are against other time trial racers, and in endurance racing, you are more competing against yourself than you are your competitors, since the primary goal is to just finish as much as it is to finish faster than the others.

If you are comparing your results to prior results for the same course, i submit that you are competing with prior performances, and it's valid in the context.


I fully agree. I compete against myself all the time.

billydonn
01-29-09, 07:10 AM
Respectfully, i disagree, based on context. In a Time Trial, for example, you are as much competing against your prior performances as you are against other time trial racers, and in endurance racing, you are more competing against yourself than you are your competitors, since the primary goal is to just finish as much as it is to finish faster than the others.

If you are comparing your results to prior results for the same course, i submit that you are competing with prior performances, and it's valid in the context.

Sloppy language and thinking IMO. (Nothing personal...)

txvintage
01-29-09, 09:49 AM
Sloppy language and thinking IMO. (Nothing personal...)


Think in terms of one of the most coveted records in cycling, The Hour.

One man, One bike, One Hour. Can you be the fastest man on earth on a bike?

I'll never be the fastest man on a bike, but I can be the fastest "me" on a bike.

billydonn
01-29-09, 03:25 PM
Think in terms of one of the most coveted records in cycling, The Hour.

One man, One bike, One Hour. Can you be the fastest man on earth on a bike?

I'll never be the fastest man on a bike, but I can be the fastest "me" on a bike.


We're in agreement until the last sentence when you assert that "self-competition" is the same thing as comparing one's performance against that of someone else. (To be the "fastest man on earth" assumes another man, be he present or not.) Trying to improve oneself... that's not the same thing. Lots of us here are conscious of our abilities and performance and do the best we can to improve, but there isn't that much talk (Beanz mostly excepted) about racing other people or comparing ourselves against others, which is the essence of competition. I don't think I've ever heard Historian really talk that way. This striving to improve is a fine and noble thing and does not need to be called "competition" to establish its value.

Here are some more definitions (Cambridge Dictionary this time), none of which define "competition" or "competing" as simply striving to improve oneself. They all point to social comparison as being the essence of competition. I have added the italics for emphasis.

compete Show phonetics
verb
1 to try to be more successful than someone or something else:
It's difficult for a small supermarket to compete against/with the big supermarkets.
Both girls compete for their father's attention.
FIGURATIVE Turn the music down - I'm not competing against/with that noise (= I can't/won't try to speak louder than that music)!

2 to take part in a race or competition:
Are you competing in the 100 metres?
The two athletes are competing for the gold medal.

competition Show phonetics
noun
1 [u] when someone is trying to win something or be more successful than someone else:
Competition for jobs is intense.
There's a lot of competition between computer companies.
The two companies are in competition with each other.
[+ to infinitive] There's fierce competition to join the Special Branch.
Foreign competition (= similar products from other countries) had reduced their sales.
Why are you jealous of her? She's no competition!

2 [C] an organized event in which people try to win a prize by [I]being the best, fastest, etc:
a swimming/chess competition
She's entered a crossword competition.
HUMOROUS You don't need to eat so quickly! It's not a competition.

Neil_B
01-31-09, 05:01 PM
Sloppy language and thinking IMO. (Nothing personal...)

I have to agree with Mr. Stormcrowe and TXVintage. There IS another man 'present' in such a 'competition', namely the 'me' that set that particular time, or mileage, or whatever. The idea of splitting your past from the present and treating it as another man isn't a new one - Shakespeare's Henry V, for instance, speaks of "turn[ing] away my former self" - and use of the word "competition" is natural when comparing athletic performances.

txvintage
01-31-09, 07:42 PM
I get what BD is saying, but it's a speration of semantics.

Semantics are a non value add argument. The important thing is what one feels internally that pushes you to do better. I don't think it matters if it's better than your previous best of someone else's current best.

It's all good.

I'm either curse, or blessed, with the ability to turn anything into a competition.:o

billydonn
01-31-09, 08:31 PM
I have to agree with Mr. Stormcrowe and TXVintage. There IS another man 'present' in such a 'competition', namely the 'me' that set that particular time, or mileage, or whatever. The idea of splitting your past from the present and treating it as another man isn't a new one - Shakespeare's Henry V, for instance, speaks of "turn[ing] away my former self" - and use of the word "competition" is natural when comparing athletic performances.

I'm not surprised that you agree with the people who defended you. But, sorry, you really are misusing the language, when usuing the term "competition" to describe your quest for self-improvement. I have provided several dictionary sources (nothing edited out) that all point clearly to a social element in the competitive process. As to your position being "natural" .... well, it just seems like an intellectually lazy defense to me. IMO it would really be unfortnate to lose an important distinction between two very different kinds of behavior.

I'm going to go work on a project and compete with myself (or that other fellow I used to be) now! :D

Tom Stormcrowe
01-31-09, 08:39 PM
I'm not surprised that you agree with the people who defended you. But, sorry, you really are misusing the language, when usuing the term "competition" to describe your quest for self-improvement. I have provided several dictionary sources (nothing edited out) that all point clearly to a social element in the competitive process. As to your position being "natural" .... well, it just seems like an intellectually lazy defense to me. IMO it would really be unfortnate to lose an important distinction between two very different kinds of behavior.

I'm going to go work on a project and compete with myself (or that other fellow I used to be) now! :D

If you are going to try to improve on past performance, then it's accurate enough in context. There's a literal definition and a definition in spirit (Context) to consider, when you start applying definitions to human behavior. It's the reason a time trial is considered "The Race of Truth", since you are out there on the track, alone, and racing the clock to improve on your best time to date. The fact that you are also competing against other individuals also involved in other solo ride events is pretty secondary, as it's just you and the clock, and your own personal pain cave as you go anaerobic trying to make the push.

It's a mindset you have to experience to understand.

billydonn
01-31-09, 08:47 PM
....
I'm either curse, or blessed, with the ability to turn anything into a competition.:o

Texo: Thanks, but wait: Since we've now got two different meanings accepted, which "competition" did you mean... a contest with others or trying to get better than the other person you once were? :D (I'm really serious, which did you mean?)

billydonn
01-31-09, 08:58 PM
If you are going to try to improve on past performance, then it's accurate enough in context. There's a literal definition and a definition in spirit (Context) to consider, when you start applying definitions to human behavior. ....

The purpose of this particular definition(s) is to define a type of human behavior... one that pretty clearly requires other people as a context.

Neil_B
01-31-09, 09:07 PM
I'm not surprised that you agree with the people who defended you. But, sorry, you really are misusing the language, when usuing the term "competition" to describe your quest for self-improvement. I have provided several dictionary sources (nothing edited out) that all point clearly to a social element in the competitive process. As to your position being "natural" .... well, it just seems like an intellectually lazy defense to me. IMO it would really be unfortnate to lose an important distinction between two very different kinds of behavior.

I'm going to go work on a project and compete with myself (or that other fellow I used to be) now! :D

"...the first distinction is that between the impulses by which the individual wins supremacy over his own psycho-physical organism without regard to other individuals prominent in his environment, and the second distinction is where he wins supremacy over individual organisms of others, sometimes, as we shall proceed to show, without due regard to his own. To the first group belong the manifold impulses which issue in human activity, those controlling his sensory and motor apparatus. To the second group we assign the fighting and sexual impulses, imitation, and the social dispositions closely connected with these. Each of these impulses manifests its own peculiar play activity. In the first group of impulses we find such exercises as walking, running, jumping, swimming, climbing, dancing, etc., to which we have already alluded—where the individual may develop his powers and test his progress in efficiency. In the second group we find the antagonistic exercises, such as boxing, wrestling, and the familiar games of baseball, football, hockey, etc., where the individual strives to overcome the skill, strength and efficiency of others. In the first group the aim is physical perfection for its own sake; it forms the basis of a large part of the gymnasium training of the present day. In the second group the.aim is to use the physically perfected organism in a contest or struggle with another, to see which is the better man, as the sporting phrase goes. In one case the individual may compete against himself, or his own condition, from day to day; in the other case he must necessarily compete against an opponent, or against an opponent's record. These two groups of hereditary impulses, though apparently springing from different motives, are very closely related if not interdependent. Thus it is very difficult to conceive of an individual competing successfully as an athlete until he has perfected himself as a man. The organism must find a footing in the world before it can compete with rivals or struggle with antagonists. On the other hand the individual must have something of the fighting spirit of the athlete developed through the antagonistic impulses to enable him to hold himself down to the effort necessary to the attainment of the highest physical perfection."

- American Physical Education Review, 1910, p.99 (Emphasis added - TH)

Q. E. D.

Neil_B
01-31-09, 09:39 PM
The purpose of this particular definition(s) is to define a type of human behavior... one that pretty clearly requires other people as a context.

And as I've explained, the other person is the 'former' self and his performance. That former self and performance is being personified, so he - or in this case, The Historian - is competing against another. The idea isn't that hard to grasp; do you think the term "internal debate" is bad English because there's no second person bodily present, and thus cannot be literally true?

Expect the press to use this concept, or the related idea of competing against reputation, or legend, or record, when Lance Armstrong rides the Tour this summer.

Neil_B
01-31-09, 09:44 PM
We're in agreement until the last sentence when you assert that "self-competition" is the same thing as comparing one's performance against that of someone else. (To be the "fastest man on earth" assumes another man, be he present or not.) Trying to improve oneself... that's not the same thing. Lots of us here are conscious of our abilities and performance and do the best we can to improve, but there isn't that much talk (Beanz mostly excepted) about racing other people or comparing ourselves against others, which is the essence of competition. I don't think I've ever heard Historian really talk that way. This striving to improve is a fine and noble thing and does not need to be called "competition" to establish its value.

Here are some more definitions (Cambridge Dictionary this time), none of which define "competition" or "competing" as simply striving to improve oneself. They all point to social comparison as being the essence of competition. I have added the italics for emphasis.

compete Show phonetics
verb
1 to try to be more successful than someone or something else:
It's difficult for a small supermarket to compete against/with the big supermarkets.
Both girls compete for their father's attention.
FIGURATIVE Turn the music down - I'm not competing against/with that noise (= I can't/won't try to speak louder than that music)!

2 to take part in a race or competition:
Are you competing in the 100 metres?
The two athletes are competing for the gold medal.

competition Show phonetics
noun
1 [u] when someone is trying to win something or be more successful than someone else:
Competition for jobs is intense.
There's a lot of competition between computer companies.
The two companies are in competition with each other.
[+ to infinitive] There's fierce competition to join the Special Branch.
Foreign competition (= similar products from other countries) had reduced their sales.
Why are you jealous of her? She's no competition!

2 [C] an organized event in which people try to win a prize by [I]being the best, fastest, etc:
a swimming/chess competition
She's entered a crossword competition.
HUMOROUS You don't need to eat so quickly! It's not a competition.

None of the definitions you've trotted out conflict with the use of the word "competition" in the sense of "competing against oneself."

Fantasminha
02-01-09, 06:38 PM
Funny--as I read all this about competition, I realize that I must be the only one competing against the road. LOL ... A brief history about that--I used to be a competitive skater. Only I would get so nervous before a meet if I thought about competing against my friends. I didn't want to lose but I didn't want them to either. I just wanted everyone to win and have a good time. My coach recommended that I compete against the difficulty level of the dance rather than my friends. Made it much easier and I still think of things in those terms. (See, being a sap is not new to me...LOL)

I've been in a foul mood for years now. My husband got laid off in 2003 and has not found full time work yet. This makes a very unwelcome pressure on me to keep our whole blended family in "the manner in which we've become accustomed." It's really just a good thing that we were always frugal. Anyway, cycling allows me to take all the frustrations of a day in a job that I'd really rather quit on my pedals and arrive home in a mood that's more "like me."

I've always thought that taking care of the environment was of utmost importance but felt powerless to do anything about it. Now I don't feel powerless--I know that in at least some small ways I can change my own habits to reduce my carbon footprint. I think these things together make me a little bit easier to live with.

I still have my Sunday night blues though... no matter how many miles I get in on the weekend!

txvintage
02-01-09, 06:44 PM
Texo: Thanks, but wait: Since we've now got two different meanings accepted, which "competition" did you mean... a contest with others or trying to get better than the other person you once were? :D (I'm really serious, which did you mean?)

Both. :shrugs: