Foo - Pepper spray, what kind to get?

I live in a pretty decent area, but sometimes have to travel through much less decent areas (and I am also asking for a (female) friend who lives in a much less decent area). For this I would like some pepper spray or other non-lethal self defense 'weapon'.
First, we both live in Maryland (with regular trips to DC) are there any laws to take into account?
Second, there seems to be quite a bit of choice on the market....what kind of spray 'works'? i.e fog vs. stream, different brands, different canisters.

Any advice?

All I know for sure is maryland is one of the least free (self defense wise) states in the country. As I recall, until Bush signed that law, cops couldn't carry guns off duty in Maryland. So if she or you choose to carry a weapon, you'll probably be in violation of some law. Same goes for DC. (hoping someone else knows the laws in those places) But it's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Anyway, it all works, but the problem is the very real possibility of unintended exposure to the user. Pepper spray causes some REALLY serious pain. Anything strong will incapacitate whoever is exposed heavily. In a fight where you are on your own, this is seriously bad. For that reason, I would suggest something else. An expanding baton is a very effective measure, as is a taser if severe outnumbering isn't a problem.

Ideally I'd suggest carrying a pistol despite the illegality, but I have a feeling that's not an option. If she or you choose to carry pepper spray, I'd suggest a reputable brand like Fox Labs, Sabre Red, or any other police grade stuff. Carrying 2+ canisters would be best. Most importantly, I'd suggest repeated, heavy, full faced and self induced exposure to the stuff for anyone who carries it. If you screw up and get blasted in a struggle, not being ready could easily be lethal. The feeling of panic, pain, involuntary eye shutting, difficulty breathing, it's really a shock the first time you get hit by it. Only by repeated exposure can a person over come the effects to any degree.

I live in a pretty decent area, but sometimes have to travel through much less decent areas (and I am also asking for a (female) friend who lives in a much less decent area). For this I would like some pepper spray or other non-lethal self defense 'weapon'.
First, we both live in Maryland (with regular trips to DC) are there any laws to take into account?
Second, there seems to be quite a bit of choice on the market....what kind of spray 'works'? i.e fog vs. stream, different brands, different canisters.

Any advice?

Go to a police supply store. They will have options that are legal.

Police supply stores often don't know the law, and most often will not like selling police gear to non cops anyway.

The best place I know of on the web is www.jlusa.com They are some very reputable folks.

Police supply stores often don't know the law, and most often will not like selling police gear to non cops anyway.

The best place I know of on the web is www.jlusa.com They are some very reputable folks.

fair enough.

There is one here in town that does have pepper spray(s) available to the public. Not sure about things like tasers.

I'd go for one with hints of garlic and lemon.

You should search the pafoa.org forums for Maryland issues before you carry a weapon there.

The government's attitude in MD is that, if you're under attack, HTFU and wait for the cops.

Not to mention that many miscreants are largely immune to the effects of pepper spray. It also does not necessarily work well on people who are on certain drugs, are wearing glasses, are wearing a face mask/balaclava, it is raining while spraying, or the wind is blowing back at you while spraying. I have been sprayed during training, and I could still readily close with, grapple with and injure the person who had sprayed me. It is better than nothing, but pepper spray does have some significant limitations.

Bear Mace
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=bear+mace&aq=-1&oq=
^^^
Some world class morans right there.

Get the most effective deterrent you can find. Bear spray would be good.

Personally I'll be okay with violating a pepper spray law if it means I'm not dead/maimed/etc...

Seriously. If you're threatened, you do whatever is necessary to prevent the attacker from accomplishing their goal.

I collect swords. Not crappy, un-sharpened wallhangers, either. You could shave with the one I keep next to the bed and it's made from especially resilient steel. If a robber/attacker comes into my house they'll be losing parts. (unless they have a gun...)

. If a robber/attacker comes into my house they'll be losing parts. (unless they have a gun...)

Indoors, in a small to medium size room, a sword could easily be equal or superior to a gun.

Bear Mace
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=bear+mace&aq=-1&oq=
^^^
Some world class morans right there.God made some powerful stupid creatures.


Indoors, in a small to medium size room, a sword in the hands of someone skilled in its use could easily be equal or superior to a gun.Fixed.

Of course, that applies more if you actually have to use it. If you can scare some crackhead out of your house by running at them like an even-crazier person than they are while wielding a katana, more power to ya.

10 hours of fencing practice would probably do it. At arms length or so,, consider the difference in stopping power between a handgun and a lobbed off head.

IMO stream is the best delivery method for pepper spray. I have been sprayed a few times and can attest to how effective it is. But like MillCreek said while it is painful it doesn't stop them completely if they are determined.

As for other weapons, make sure they are legal for use in your state. I don't know about where you live but in Cali those extendable batons are illegal.

There are advantages and disadvantages to various weapons. Here is some off the top of my head:

Pepper spray advantages:

Can be used on multiple attackers.
Can be used on dogs.
Non lethal -- means lawsuits filed won't be for top dollar.

Disadvantages:

Lots of NBC people have had training where they are used to doing actions, including fighting, when their eyes are nailed with that stuff.
Crackheads and other people are immune to it.
Can blow back at you.

Civilian TASER device, such as a C2, X26C, or the Advanced TASER M18/M18L:
Advantages:

Stops someone cold, regardless of how much crack, PCP, heroin, cocaine, marijuana, alcohol, or whatever substance they are on. If you know what you are doing, you can keep them doing the fish while you get them hogtied to deliver in a nice package for the cops.

Non lethal, so again, they can't sue for top dollar.

Disadvantages:

You have one shot. That's it. Then, you have to go into melee using the tip of it as a stun gun.

Its good against only one person. Attacker has buds, life is going to be hell.

You do need to practice with it. It doesn't have that great a range, only 15 feet for civilian, 35 for LEO models. Live cartridges come in 15', 21', 25', and 35'. Non military/LEO only can get 15' (yellow door) cartridges. Weapon retention is key.

Live firearm:

Advantages:

Intimidation factor.
Can put down multiple attackers.

Disadvantages:

Are not allowed to pack in a lot of places (baseball games).
Need to work on weapon retention, else weapon will end up in attacker(s) hands.
You have to deal with the police and the attacker's attorneys, and they can try asking for some pretty insane sums of cash.
You need to pack a sufficient caliber, too small and it won't do much against a PCP addict unless you get a vital shot. Too big, hard to conceal.

2 things mlts, pepper spray can kill people with respiratory issues.

Also, caliber is a moot point to some extent. I've seen a buck get shot with 5 kill shots worth of 12 gauge slugs, blowing out its heart and other organs, and then run 70 yards. Keep in mind .22lr kills more people in the USA than all other calibers combined. Shot placement is key. That's not to say that I don't encourage the largest caliber that can reasonably be managed, but the only sure fire way to neutralize a deadly threat with a firearm is to instantly disrupt the central nervous system. That basically means zombie rules, as in neck up or the spine. Anything less might still stop someone, but a lot can happen in a few seconds.

I think I failed to mention a few things here:
1) Neither of us are citizens, so I am pretty sure that rules out guns and any sort of licensed weapon.
2) I don't think either of us would want to risk potentially killing someone.
3) I suck at fighting, really, really suck. Somehow I just can't bring myself to hurt someone, although in a pinch I will do it, but hesitantly. Not sure about my friend, but she doesn't seem to be that trained either. So, we need something idiot proof which minimizes operator input (i.e. spray & run).

If I'd be living here for a longer time, I'd probably do a knife based fighting sport just for self defense. However, that is not the case and even if it were, I need a stop-gap measure.


About HTFU and call the police....well, let's just say that I have little faith in them.
Also, when someone jumps me, getting out the cell phone, dialing 911, having some chitchat with the operator and then waiting 5 minutes for the cops....somehow that seems a bit of a problem to me....not sure why ;)

I live in a pretty decent area, but sometimes have to travel through much less decent areas (and I am also asking for a (female) friend who lives in a much less decent area). For this I would like some pepper spray or other non-lethal self defense 'weapon'.
First, we both live in Maryland (with regular trips to DC) are there any laws to take into account?
Second, there seems to be quite a bit of choice on the market....what kind of spray 'works'? i.e fog vs. stream, different brands, different canisters.

Any advice?

splash tabasco in their face.

I think I failed to mention a few things here:
1) Neither of us are citizens, so I am pretty sure that rules out guns and any sort of licensed weapon.
2) I don't think either of us would want to risk potentially killing someone.
3) I suck at fighting, really, really suck. Somehow I just can't bring myself to hurt someone, although in a pinch I will do it, but hesitantly. Not sure about my friend, but she doesn't seem to be that trained either. So, we need something idiot proof which minimizes operator input (i.e. spray & run).

If I'd be living here for a longer time, I'd probably do a knife based fighting sport just for self defense. However, that is not the case and even if it were, I need a stop-gap measure.


About HTFU and call the police....well, let's just say that I have little faith in them.
Also, when someone jumps me, getting out the cell phone, dialing 911, having some chitchat with the operator and then waiting 5 minutes for the cops....somehow that seems a bit of a problem to me....not sure why ;)

There is nothing idiot proof when it comes to self defense. If you have no experience, and you are serious about staying safe, you should absolutely seek out self defense classes. Using the web you can find good ones in your area, and at affordable prices. Colleges often provide single credit hour classes in self defense which will make you much better off than you are now.

Unarmed training combined with less/non lethal weapons is the key to having a chance in a fight against any serious aggressor. You need to get confident through training, and you need to get rid of your instinct not to want to hurt or kill someone who threatens your safety. That isn't a healthy mindset. Your willingness to defend yourself if forced to needs to be absolute and unhesitating.

HALT ! It stops big dogs in their tracks..........

Perhaps the OP should consider carrying a cane. Lots of interesting things can be done with a cane.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff168/cyclearkansas/waspspray.jpg

27 ft stream. Cheap, 14oz, fits into water bottle cage, a little duct tape keeps the rattle down. 1-2 second shot works well on dogs without long term effect. Got to work well on people too, but you may not get by with it in the winter.

I'm too ADD to read the whole thread, forgive me if this is a repeat:
Some states allow a higher active ingredient content than others. Check for your state and others nearby (if you are near a border) to see if you can pick up something more potent.

Do your homework on mace. It can easily be turned on you by the attacker- or you can even spray yourself in the face by accident- these incidents happen a lot.

You might want to investigate a civilian taser (one time use) or a kubaton (my weapon of choice). Happy shopping!

Do your homework on mace. It can easily be turned on you by the attacker- or you can even spray yourself in the face by accident- these incidents happen a lot.!

Besides blow back, the other very real possibility is an assailant wiping his face, then punching you in the eye. It takes very little pepper spray to make your eye involuntarily shut.

About the legality of different percentages, I would just pull the label.

HALT ! It stops big dogs in their tracks..........

I've tested it on myself, pretty good stuff. It's not the hottest stuff out there, but it does work.

you need to get rid of your instinct not to want to hurt or kill someone who threatens your safety. That isn't a healthy mindset. Your willingness to defend yourself if forced to needs to be absolute and unhesitating.

Abso-freaking-lutely! If someone tries to hurt me, by the time the police show up I want them to be wondering who was trying to attack who because the guy curled up in the fetal position is obviously lacking stones. :lol: I'm probably not going to be able to make that happen (recovering from lyme disease sucks), but I'll try my hardest. Helps that I worked for a vet in high school and got to wrestle dogs into submission, the people in my self defense class were easy to deal with after that.

Artifice, I think I might have to order a kubotan. Looks interesting.

Reminds me of a line from a movie....
"no, no not for killing for spraying in face" very funny in an
Indian (sub-continent) accent.

Self protection is a dangerous endeavor. Good luck.

As someone who has been mugged twice, I think that carrying pepper spray or any other weapon for self defense is a bad idea.

On TV, the muggers confront you so you have a chance to do something. At least in my experience, you take a blow to the head from behind and have any weapons you have stripped from you before you even know you were in any kind of trouble. If you try to defend yourself like I did once against 4 guys who failed to knock me out on the initial blow, you get pounded into dog food.

Plus you never know when you gonna need it to repel a bear attack:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/Other/BearHazard.jpg

All I know for sure is maryland is one of the least free (self defense wise) states in the country. As I recall, until Bush signed that law, cops couldn't carry guns off duty in Maryland. So if she or you choose to carry a weapon, you'll probably be in violation of some law. Same goes for DC. (hoping someone else knows the laws in those places) But it's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Anyway, it all works, but the problem is the very real possibility of unintended exposure to the user. Pepper spray causes some REALLY serious pain. Anything strong will incapacitate whoever is exposed heavily. In a fight where you are on your own, this is seriously bad. For that reason, I would suggest something else. An expanding baton is a very effective measure, as is a taser if severe outnumbering isn't a problem.

Ideally I'd suggest carrying a pistol despite the illegality, but I have a feeling that's not an option. If she or you choose to carry pepper spray, I'd suggest a reputable brand like Fox Labs, Sabre Red, or any other police grade stuff. Carrying 2+ canisters would be best. Most importantly, I'd suggest repeated, heavy, full faced and self induced exposure to the stuff for anyone who carries it. If you screw up and get blasted in a struggle, not being ready could easily be lethal. The feeling of panic, pain, involuntary eye shutting, difficulty breathing, it's really a shock the first time you get hit by it. Only by repeated exposure can a person over come the effects to any degree.

Pepper spray is too similar to a condiment.

I rather carry a gun.

As someone who has been mugged twice, I think that carrying pepper spray or any other weapon for self defense is a bad idea.

On TV, the muggers confront you so you have a chance to do something. At least in my experience, you take a blow to the head from behind and have any weapons you have stripped from you before you even know you were in any kind of trouble. If you try to defend yourself like I did once against 4 guys who failed to knock me out on the initial blow, you get pounded into dog food.

Twice?

wow ... Oregon is a tougher place than I thought.

An 8 oz. bottle of Counter Assault Bear deterrent. Might as well get the best!

http://www.counterassault.com/

Twice?

wow ... Oregon is a tougher place than I thought.
Neither time was in Oregon. Both times were in major cities elsewhere, and I'd exercised poor judgment over where and when I chose to wander about by myself.

The second time, I was dangled out of a 4th floor window after I was beaten up. I wouldn't have been beaten so badly nor would I have been dangled, except I tried to smash the face in of one of the attackers when they were stripping me of my cash, ID, and jacket. It was really stupid of me to risk my life over my ID, a couple hundred bucks, and a nice leather jacket. However, the sense of violation at the time was incredible.

If you intend to defend yourself, you really must win or you will make things far worse for yourself. In a competent mugging, you will never get a chance to do anything. There's a decent chance you won't know what happened until it's over. The best defense is situational awareness and common sense that keep you out of a position where you can be attacked.

Banerjek's story is proof, one of the most important things you can do in a city environment is be mindful of who is within your area. While walking around amongst people, being mindful of your surroundings is probably 75% of the equation.

Pepper spray is too similar to a condiment.

I rather carry a gun.


That's why I quit carrying it in favor of my Sig and my ASP. :thumb:

If you intend to defend yourself, you really must win or you will make things far worse for yourself. In a competent mugging, you will never get a chance to do anything. There's a decent chance you won't know what happened until it's over. The best defense is situational awareness and common sense that keep you out of a position where you can be attacked.Yeah, a weapon of any type, be it a gun or pepper-spray will only be of use if you're carrying it in your hands at the time of the attack. And even then, a good mugger won't even let you have the chance to use it. If it's not a life-or-death situation, don't escalate it into one. Pepper spray is one of those silly things that can get you killed by turning a mugger into a pissed-off psychopath.

If you life is in danger, you must not hesitate. Strike as fast and as hard as you can lethally; you may not get a second chance. I can kill a human 7 different ways with my bare hands in a single blow. Learning an 8th one now.

Plus you never know when you gonna need it to repel a bear attack:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/Other/BearHazard.jpg

It'd probably be just like putting Tobasco on your/their food.

I can kill a human 7 different ways with my bare hands in a single blow. Learning an 8th one now.

You can never know enough ways:thumb:

If it's not a life-or-death situation, don't escalate it into one. Pepper spray is one of those silly things that can get you killed by turning a mugger into a pissed-off psychopath.

So do we just rely on the good intentions of the mugger that he/she just wants money and has no intention of harming us? What if their true intentions are to commit significant bodily harm upon our person? Do you suggest that we go as to sheep to the slaughter? This sounds very similar to the advice given to not resist a ****** unless you anger him and he kills you. You are assuming that this is not his intent regardless. I would be interested to know how the people here can make the split-second determination that the assailant is essentially not harmless, and if we don't resist, everything will be peachy.

Sabre makes one that mounts to your bike

http://www.botachtactical.com/sabred125ozb.html