Advocacy & Safety - Ninja bikers and bicycle advocacy

I was at an advocacy meeting last night where the subject of lightless biking came up. I have not seen many cyclists without lights, but tonight I saw 2 on the way home from work. I caught one and passed him just before a downhill. A car pulled up to a stop sign to my right in perfect timing to take this cyclist out if the motorist didn't happen to see him. At the bottom of the hill, another cyclist without lights pulled up to a stop sign just as I passed. Fortunately, the second cyclist's scofflaw ways didn't extend to running stop signs.

After the Madison incident, I felt even more inhibited about saying anything than I usually would. I'm lit up like a Christmas tree myself, and I have the occasional incident that suggests I don't have enough lights. I was very tempted to mention that no lights is a $90 ticket in our area to the first cyclist. But I didn't. Discuss.

Use enough lights on your machine (perhaps some front lights canted at 45 degrees) to be able to see the ninjas before a potential accident (and let the ninjas see you).

Now that you've eliminated the majority of your risk, let Natural Selection to take its course on the others.

-Kurt

gosh, we should stop that from happening. meetings help. Its real neat your lit up like a christmas tree:)

I was very tempted to mention that no lights is a $90 ticket in our area to the first cyclist. But I didn't. Discuss.

I think if you'd have said, "Dude, fyi, i got a ticket for no lights and it was $90! Good luck." That way you don't come off as a light-nanny who is trying to tell someone what to do about their own safety, but just a guy whose trying to communicate that maybe buying lights would be cheaper than paying a ticket...

I'm going to have my bike phosphorous coated and then mount two of those 25 million candlepower flashlights so I glow in the dark. Probably make an aluminum suit too - for reflectivity.

I'm going to have my bike phosphorous coated and then mount two of those 25 million candlepower flashlights so I glow in the dark. Probably make an aluminum suit too - for reflectivity.

Phosphorus and aluminum flashing aren't going to be that visible actually, since phospor doesnt glow bright enough of long enough to be useful; and while aluminum is shiny its going to reflect the light all over the place instead of towards the motorist.

What you're looking for instead is retroreflective materials. Try these: http://www.identi-tape.com/hi-intensity.htm

Farm Triangle is what you need:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/photo_0020.jpg

Mine is manufactured by AG-TRONIC, Hastings, Nebraska.

Man, that triangle stands out!

I don't want to look like a hay wagon going down the bike lane, but I could use something like that is a much smaller size, to hang off the back of my Brooks when commuting.

John Forester wrote in one of his books about a bike-bike accident in Eugene in the 1970's. Night time. One of them was barreling down a hill. Neither had lights.

Both died.

When I teach cycling safety, I tell people that the front light is more important than the rear blinkie. The risk of other vehicles (including bicycles!) pulling into your right of way is a significant risk.

I run three rear blinkies (including a PB Superflash and a steady non-blinking one) and about 900 lumens off the front, including a helmet mounted light that I use to selectively blind potential conflicts, and I still worry more when riding at night.

You could be in the Detroit area were hardly anyone has lights . My guess is 95% of bike riders at night in SE Michigan are NINJA riders I saw 3 just tonight at dinner .Didn't see a bike with any lights .
My guess is up around the college towns like Ann Arbor you would see more lights.

Followed a ninja bike rider while in my car, one night. He was bombing downhill on a narrow winding, tree lined street. I was gaining on him, not knowing he was there until I saw the gleam of metal on his bike. He was wearing all black, no lights, no reflectors. I lagged a couple car lengths behind him because it was too narrow to pass. He finally got up on the sidewalk where it begins, but I was still unsure if he would arrow on back into the street again. Finally passed him, but it made me rather edgy.
Saw another fellow (again, while I was in my car) pedalling madly on a 45 mph zone four lane parkway, all black, no lights, nothing, in a driving rain. Could barely see him. The guy in the right lane alongside me had to hit his brakes hard to avoid hitting the cyclist. :eek:

Do people who ride like that just not think, or are they unhappy with their lives and want something to happen to them?

Now that you've eliminated your risk, let Natural Selection to take its course.


I agree. As long as they aren't running into you, I say let 'em try and get themselves killed. They probably aren't wearing helmets either. Their choice (and a poor one it is)

I have 3 rear blinkies, a front helmet light, and a front handlebar light, and I still feel underlit. I think I need something for side visibility, but I hate the thought of putting something in the wheels of my roadie (which is also my commuter bike)

Actually the ones that crack me up are the people wearing a helmet, but no lights. Hilarious, and slightly tragic, that a chunk of styrofoam marketing can make people feel that much safer.

Farm Triangle is what you need:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/photo_0020.jpg

Mine is manufactured by AG-TRONIC, Hastings, Nebraska.

Looks like a sail. If you lived in Nebraska you wouldn't put that on your bike.

i ninja bike on my commute often. i dont try make a habit of it but in the winter it gets dark earlier and my lights don't work well in below zero weather.

i know my route well and there is little to no traffic, i stay aware of my surroundings. if a car is approaching behind me i dismount the bike and stand in the shoulder until they pass. its not too much of an inconvenience for me due to the lack of traffic.

You could be in the Detroit area were hardly anyone has lights . My guess is 95% of bike riders at night in SE Michigan are NINJA riders I saw 3 just tonight at dinner .Didn't see a bike with any lights .
My guess is up around the college towns like Ann Arbor you would see more lights.

Same thing outstate in Lansing. For years I would tell people, if you see a bike with lights, it's me. I remember one time that one of the open-air crack dealers laughed after I passed, "Damn I thought that was the po-po. I almost threw my **** away and hit the dirt. I never seen a bike all lit up like that!"

The visibility situation is a little better now. I'd say that one in ten bikes have lights now. I have given blinkies to young riders. They tend to like them and use them, at least until the batteries die.

dogbreathpnw wrote:
When I teach cycling safety, I tell people that the front light is more important than the rear blinkie.

+1

Waiting at a stop sign with my Cateyes front and back, a car turning left almost wiped me out. He didn't see my front headlight, even w the small indicators on the sides.

At the next bike show I bought two different types of headlights to aim to the sides, so turning car drivers no longer have an excuse.

And I refuse to use a constant blinker. A solid red light indicates a moving vehicle. I'll put a siren and rotating beacon on my helmet before I put on a blinker. The little MEC/REI turtles set to steady are okay.

let Natural Selection to take its course.




:thumb:

First let me say that if I see a bike with more than one light on front and rear I know there is a scardey fred behind the bars. I live in a small city with plenty of street lights. My reflectors are enough for following vehicles to see me that and I take the lane at all times. I like a headlight when I'm on a dark road and use one as needed.

First let me say that if I see a bike with more than one light on front and rear I know there is a scardey fred behind the bars. I live in a small city with plenty of street lights. My reflectors are enough for following vehicles to see me that and I take the lane at all times. I like a headlight when I'm on a dark road and use one as needed.

I use one headlight, personally. I prefer two rear lights because I can't see them while I'm riding, so one could malfunction without me knowing it.

You mention having plenty of streetlights. That's what I used to think too, until there was a citywide power failure just as I was starting one of my first nighttime commutes home from work. All the streetlights and traffic lights quit functioning, and this was before I had lights for my bikes.

Somehow, I made it home--almost. As I was turning blindly into my driveway, I misjudged by a few inches and slammed my front tire into the curb. I bit my tongue so hard on impact that I almost severed it. I also bent my rim bad enough that I had to buy a new one.

Between the pain and the expense, I learned to buy some lights and use them every time. I hope you do the same, before you get hurt (or hurt somebody else).

First let me say that if I see a bike with more than one light on front and rear I know there is a scardey fred behind the bars. I live in a small city with plenty of street lights. My reflectors are enough for following vehicles to see me that and I take the lane at all times. I like a headlight when I'm on a dark road and use one as needed.Sorry, if you are riding a bike with reflectors, you are a fred. Motorists can't see you, and you have just been lucky. In particular, cross traffic to your right has no idea that you are there.

First let me say that if I see a bike with more than one light on front and rear I know there is a scardey fred behind the bars. I live in a small city with plenty of street lights. My reflectors are enough for following vehicles to see me that and I take the lane at all times. I like a headlight when I'm on a dark road and use one as needed.

And if I see a guy riding in the dark with only reflectors, I see an idiot.

Edit: or a potential Darwin Award winner.

Sorry, if you are riding a bike with reflectors, you are a fred. Motorists can't see you, and you have just been lucky. In particular, cross traffic to your right has no idea that you are there.

Not to mention that other cyclists and pedestrians can't see you, and you can't see them. So you're a menace to others as well as yourself. There's nothing more fredlike than worrying that you're a fred. ;)

First let me say that if I see a bike with more than one light on front and rear I know there is a scardey fred behind the bars. I live in a small city with plenty of street lights. My reflectors are enough for following vehicles to see me that and I take the lane at all times. I like a headlight when I'm on a dark road and use one as needed.

I don't know what a fred is, but if you see me with my dual headlights on the road and say to yourself "There's a fred", I'll think to myself "At least you see me."

Thanks for your concern but I have been spoiled as I live in a city laid out for walking IN THE 1600'S.
I do not have reflectors on my wheels, just the rear where Raleigh put them. as for cross traffic that is not a problem almost all streets are one way and four way stops. I have been car free all my life and have been riding for fourty-five years. And Darwin has nothing on a dumbass that lives where biking is not safe to do, that's why I don't live in the suburbs on 50 MPH arterial roads.
I'm sorry Roody can't see in the dark and doesn't know where the driveway is. So what did all those lights cost? I get little blinky clip-ons for $1.99 at the hardware store that work fine. Now when I ride the bikes with headlights I use them but my snow bike has no light.
I just wanted to see what the neo-car free kooks would say. If I die on a bike it will not be because of my lack of 1000 lumen granny lights but the inattention of the cager that hits me.

Thanks for your concern but I have been spoiled as I live in a city laid out for walking IN THE 1600'S.
I do not have reflectors on my wheels, just the rear where Raleigh put them. as for cross traffic that is not a problem almost all streets are one way and four way stops. I have been car free all my life and have been riding for fourty-five years. And Darwin has nothing on a dumbass that lives where biking is not safe to do, that's why I don't live in the suburbs on 50 MPH arterial roads.
I'm sorry Roody can't see in the dark and doesn't know where the driveway is. So what did all those lights cost? I get little blinky clip-ons for $1.99 at the hardware store that work fine. Now when I ride the bikes with headlights I use them but my snow bike has no light.
I just wanted to see what the neo-car free kooks would say. If I die on a bike it will not be because of my lack of 1000 lumen granny lights but the inattention of the cager that hits me.

Well, I know I can't change your mind, and you'll probably be OK, so God bless you.

My 2 friends that I do night rides with like the lights I gave them to an extent, but they don't like the "hassle". And, like you, they think the lights make them look dorky. They really love the ninja or guerrilla feel that they get from riding through the city at night in darkness. Sometimes I'll switch off my lights and join them in the darkness. It is nice--but only for a few minutes, then I switch on the lights.

I obviously have a different opinion than my ninja friends. I think lights give me a safety edge, not only from cars, but from pedestrians and ninja cyclists. Maybe, like you say, I don't have very good night vision if I can't see a curb in a full power failure. So one more thing I like about lights is that they help me to see obstacles in my path. I also think lights look cool on a bike. At my age (53) you start to worry less about what other people think anyway.

BTW, the lights I use are usually fairly cheap Planet Bike LED models. They aren't real bright, but adequate to my purposes. The headlights cost about $35 and the rear SuperFlash blinkies are around $25. So that's about $85 total for one bike--and $85 is more than a couple of my bikes cost! :D

I hear you man I'm 52 and ride everywhere in all conditions always have. Now a power failure on the new moon would suck. I've done some pitch black riding and it's a little un-nerving but here I am. I think the lights are overblown like helmets. I live in an old streetscape of narrow one lanes. I know my streeets, every pot hole and expansion joint and lately every ice patch too.

I hear you man I'm 52 and ride everywhere in all conditions always have. Now a power failure on the new moon would suck. I've done some pitch black riding and it's a little un-nerving but here I am. I think the lights are overblown like helmets. I live in an old streetscape of narrow one lanes. I know my streeets, every pot hole and expansion joint and lately every ice patch too.

Potholes grow as fast as mushrooms. I have come home from work and almost hit a pothole that wasn't there when I went to work that same day. That's another time when a light comes in handy, since I get out of work at 11:30 PM.

(snip) I have not seen many cyclists without lights... (snip)

I guess that's pretty much the point.

:lol:

Looks like a sail. If you lived in Nebraska you wouldn't put that on your bike.

On a style note, when it comes to reflective materials, the more area displayed to the light source, the brighter you appear. In this case as well, size does matter!

A dab of the best reflective tape (SOLAS) on your messenger bag is inadequate. 8 square inches on your messenger bag will reflect far more light to the source, thus making you far more noticeable. If you rely on reflectors, go large!

My helmet, for example, was once blue. In the daylight it appears to be a light grey because I have covered every surface with the best reflective tape I could find. I have tape on parts of my bike and shoes as well.

But I am primarily trusting in the positive light source of a white front blinky and a Planet Bike Superflash behind.

Potholes grow as fast as mushrooms. I have come home from work and almost hit a pothole that wasn't there when I went to work that same day. That's another time when a light comes in handy, since I get out of work at 11:30 PM.

One of my main routes in fact my street is made of Macadam( concrete and gravel) and doesn't get potholes and the other thing is the city being touristy fills the holes regularly. We also have gas lights on my street so power failures have little effect. It's all a matter of comfort, I'm not worried about ninja because of the ambient light and slower traffic speeds in my city I do use the lights on my Raleighs that have them, but you will never see me trussed up in dayglo ****ting my pants afraid of cagers hitting me.
I live in a great place to bike in fact the birthplace of the League of American Wheelmen. And I think vintage lights are way cool looking and I love my 1954 dynohub but winter and fifty- four year old bikes don't mix. So my snow bike has to do.