Mountain Biking - noob wants to upgrade drivetrain... help?

I have a GT Backwoods that I've (unfortunately) been storing on my balcony, and the elements have not been kind to it. I want to fix it up. So I called up a repair shop and they said it would cost like $200 to do a full tune-up (repack bearing, throw parts in machine washer, replace cables, etc.). That price seemed a bit too steep for me, so I considered just selling my bike for whatever I can get for it and buying a new one. I like my frame though, so now I'm considering just replacng the drivetrain (which is acting up anyway - frequent lock-ups).

So, I was wondering what it would cost to replace the whole drive train, and if it's relatively easy enough to install on my own.

Here is current parts list (all shimano):
Alivio shifters, crank, front derailleur
STX rear derailleur
Acera front hub
Parallax rear hub
Mavic 238 rims
V-brakes

Also, probably a stupid question, but currently it has a 7 speed rear sprocket; can I put a 9 speed on it? I was looking at a Deore XT 9-Speed Hyperglide Cassette Sprocket on ebay for under $20, seemed like a good deal. I was thinking of going Deore or Deore LX for the components. I'd like to keep the whole upgrade under $130.

Any suggestions?

So, I was wondering what it would cost to replace the whole drive train, and if it's relatively easy enough to install on my own.

It depends on how much wrenching you know and what tools you have available. Acquiring the parts piecemeal can get costly although if you really know where to look, you might be able to get some good deals. A complete DeoreLX group will probably run you around $500 easy.



Here is current parts list (all shimano):
Alivio shifters, crank, front derailleur
STX rear derailleur
Acera front hub
Parallax rear hub
Mavic 238 rims
V-brakes

You might want to determine what you desperately need to replace first just to get the bike into a ridable condition.



Also, probably a stupid question, but currently it has a 7 speed rear sprocket; can I put a 9 speed on it? I was looking at a Deore XT 9-Speed Hyperglide Cassette Sprocket on ebay for under $20, seemed like a good deal. I was thinking of going Deore or Deore LX for the components. I'd like to keep the whole upgrade under $130.


You need to check your dropout spacing. You'll need 130mm spacing for 9 speed. If your dropout spacing isn't wide enough but your frame is a steel frame then you may be able to respace it. Check out Sheldon Brown's webpage on frame spacing (http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html). I somehow doubt you'll be able to keep the upgrade price below $130 with the level of components you're looking at.

Thanks for the fast reply khuon! Really helpful.



It depends on how much wrenching you know and what tools you have available. Acquiring the parts piecemeal can get costly although if you really know where to look, you might be able to get some good deals. A complete DeoreLX group will probably run you around $500 easy.

As to how much wrenching I know... not too much. I used to take my bmx bikes apart a lot, but those were much simpler beasts than mtb, so this may be out of my league. I have only basic tools, too, and I'm sure there are tons of specialized gadgets that make the whole job a ton easier.

The reaon I was thinking piecemeal is because I was checking out ebay, and it looks like I could get decent parts for a song (like deore xt rear derailleurs for under $30, shifters for under $20, deore 9-speed cassettes for under $10, etc.). Compatibility is my major hangup with going piece by piece, but I figure I can pull something together with adequate research. Even so, I should probably lower my standards a bit if I want to make a $130 price point (I picked $130 because the base line tune-up at the bike shop was $70, and I wanted to spend under $200 to get the bike ridable).



You might want to determine what you desperately need to replace first just to get the bike into a ridable condition.

Good point. Shifters are fine, but then I would need to stick with 7-speed. I really need to replace anything the chain touches though (and the chain :p), so I figured I might as well try to throw a 9 speed in there while I'm at it.



You need to check your dropout spacing. You'll need 130mm spacing for 9 speed. If your dropout spacing isn't wide enough but your frame is a steel frame then you may be able to respace it. Check out Sheldon Brown's webpage on frame spacing (http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html). I somehow doubt you'll be able to keep the upgrade price below $130 with the level of components you're looking at.

Great site, thanks for the link. I just checked my spacing (with the wheel on), and it looks to be 135mm. Should be ok there.

So new questions:
- Other than standard tools (hex wrenches, screwdrivers, socket wrench, etc.), what specialized tools are used to change over a drivetrain?
- Should I be wary of buying piecemeal, especially off of ebay? Am I asking for trouble going the piecemeal route as far as putting it all together is concerned?

tdizzie, i too have an old bike that i bought from a co-worker. thought it's rockhopper and i love the bike.. but it's just too big for me. i've thought about replacing parts on it.. but i don't think i have the tools necessary to do the job. thus, i'm thinking about getting a new bike instead. but if you can do it.. then go for it!!

To be perfectly blunt, you can't do it and do a good job of it if you have to ask. You NEED (not an option) a lot of very specialized tools that aren't cheap. As was said, a basic mid level component group is 500 bucks.

As for frame spacing you can run a 9spd no problem since the Backwoods is a steel frame, so it can be spread to fit a 9spd wheel with little affect on the frame, other than the rear wheel fitting tight. You need a chainwhip, bottom bracket tool, lockring tool, cable cutters, etc etc.

If you dont' know about parts then don't just piecemeal.... not everything works togehter and unless you know what you're doing you will probably wind up wasting money on incompatible/crappy parts.

I would use your bike to LEARN how to fix stuff. I wouldn't upgrade or replace anything with the exception of the cables, housings and possibly the chain. Tires/Tubes too if they are in poor shape. Get some tools, or a complete kit and learn how to fix your bike yourself. A lot of mail order companies sell this tool kit for @ $45. The tools aren't the greatest, but most of what a "Home Mechanic" needs. Then as you get "mur edjukated" you can buy proper tools.

You will need a stand. Those metal hangers from Home Depot for $5 work good enough. You just need something to hold your bike off the ground while you pedal and shift and adjust the cables, brakes...etc.

Go to the Mechanics Forum and read, read, read, then download the Barnett's Manuals, visit the Park Tools "how to" section of their website and post ?'s in the Mechanics forum. Plus, you can PM me with any specific questions.

Another thing to do to really save money is to turn this bike into a Single Speed and SAVE your money and buy a NEW bike!

L8R

I would use your bike to LEARN how to fix stuff. I wouldn't upgrade or replace anything with the exception of the cables, housings and possibly the chain. Tires/Tubes too if they are in poor shape. Get some tools, or a complete kit and learn how to fix your bike yourself. A lot of mail order companies sell this tool kit for @ $45. The tools aren't the greatest, but most of what a "Home Mechanic" needs. Then as you get "mur edjukated" you can buy proper tools.

You will need a stand. Those metal hangers from Home Depot for $5 work good enough. You just need something to hold your bike off the ground while you pedal and shift and adjust the cables, brakes...etc.

Go to the Mechanics Forum and read, read, read, then download the Barnett's Manuals, visit the Park Tools "how to" section of their website and post ?'s in the Mechanics forum. Plus, you can PM me with any specific questions.

Another thing to do to really save money is to turn this bike into a Single Speed and SAVE your money and buy a NEW bike!

L8R


Thanks a2, that's exactly what I did. I found a full set of bike tools off ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3664844608&ed=1082992314000&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOT:US:3) (not exactly top of the line, but should serve their purpose) and plan on taking the bike apart to clean it and try to use the parts I have now before buying anything new. The main problem with my current gear might be that it just needs to be adjusted properly. So with the new tools and guidance from forums, manuals, and a book called "Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance," I'm gonna see what I can do. Now I might only need to buy a new chain, new cables, grease, and chain lube. Much more reasonable. And I'll save a ton of money by not having to be at the mercy of the bike shop for every little thing. :D

As for the bike stand, I've always just flipped my bikes on their seat/handlebars to work on them. Do hangers or a stand make it a lot easier to work on the bike?

Thanks for the encouraging post, a2. I'll be sure to check out your suggestions, and will defiitely PM you if I have any specific questions.

As for the bike stand, I've always just flipped my bikes on their seat/handlebars to work on them. Do hangers or a stand make it a lot easier to work on the bike?



A stand definately makes it easier to work on any bike, but you can do just about anything without a stand, it just takes a little more effort

Thanks a2, that's exactly what I did. I found a full set of bike tools off ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3664844608&ed=1082992314000&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOT:US:3) (not exactly top of the line, but should serve their purpose) and plan on taking the bike apart to clean it and try to use the parts I have now before buying anything new. The main problem with my current gear might be that it just needs to be adjusted properly. So with the new tools and guidance from forums, manuals, and a book called "Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance," I'm gonna see what I can do. Now I might only need to buy a new chain, new cables, grease, and chain lube. Much more reasonable. And I'll save a ton of money by not having to be at the mercy of the bike shop for every little thing. :D

As for the bike stand, I've always just flipped my bikes on their seat/handlebars to work on them. Do hangers or a stand make it a lot easier to work on the bike?

Thanks for the encouraging post, a2. I'll be sure to check out your suggestions, and will defiitely PM you if I have any specific questions.

Yeah, a stand definitely helps. It's hard to shift your bike when it's upside down. I went to Home Depot (sure Lowe's has em too) and bought a black flip down rack that you screw to your wall to organize your garage. The thing was like $4.95. I bought like 4 of them for all my bikes. You can find them in bike shops as well (and pay $14.95). I'll find a picture of mine and post it.

The only thing I do, is I use some straps (old inner tubes work) and strap my bike to the rack. This helps when torque/force is required to loosen a bolt.

L8R

Here's a link: http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=30206-000000923-FSR13

At Lowe's, cost is only $4.96

Hey those would make my garage look alot more organized. Plus get my bike out of damger with the way my wife drives in and parking :D

They work pretty well too. AND they flip up and out of the way when not being used.

I actually put some rope on the ends of one and use it to hold up the bow of my kayak!

L8R

THE BALL IS ROLLING! Got the tools in today and couldn't help myself... tore the whole damn bike apart! :D

Everything went pretty smoothly (at least once I figure out that one side of the BB had reverse threads :rolleyes: ). One thing I screwed up with though is when I took the rear derailleur apart (not entirely sure why I decided to do that... went a crazy with the allen wrenches), I noticed that the two cogs were not the same as I thought they would be, and I didn't notice that until after they were both out and mixed up on the floor. One of them is wider and had a metal bushing on the inside, and the other is thinner with no bushing. It might make itself clear once I put it back together after cleaning everything, but I figure I'll throw that out there anyway.

I took some pictures, but I'm not entirely sure how to post them. Do I need to find some web site to host them, or can I just attach them somehow? [edit: think I figured it out**

Here is my "workshop" (hopefully)

Instead of using "quick reply" us the "Go advanced" button below this text screen and there is another botton called "manage attachments".

L8R

here is picture of a bunch of beautiful stuff (that I will definitely have to replace, except for the derailleur wheels... for now):

Good work! I, too, find beer and ziplocs to be essential in the workspace! Careful with that hammer, though...

If you are replacing parts, you'll be replacing the rusted steel cassette & crank w/ alum or alum+steel or alum+titanium ones. For now, you should be able to bend back into shape any teeth that are offline, and use naval jelly or some sort of cleaner and a wire brush to remove the rust.

Oh, yeah, when you're buying new components from e-bay, keep in mind that they might be XT, but they might be really old. There have been various changes over the years in standardized widths and whatnot. Proceed with caution! Aardvark Cycles has various tech sheets about these issues. Here's one: http://www.aardvarkcycles.com/product417.html

have fun!

A bike, tools, Beer and tunes!

Aint life grand?

BTW, you're going to have to do better than newspapers to protect your carpet. Never fails, those really greasy headset bearings will slip out of you hand in onto the one little piece of exposed carpet when the newspapers shift just a little bit.

L8R

BTW, you're going to have to do better than newspapers to protect your carpet. Never fails, those really greasy headset bearings will slip out of you hand in onto the one little piece of exposed carpet when the newspapers shift just a little bit.

Agreed. I personally would recommend a camping tarp. Fairly cheap, large, durable and washable.

Agreed. I personally would recommend a camping tarp. Fairly cheap, large, durable and washable.

Yep. I live in an apartment which is almoste completely carpeted. I was laying down newspaper and cut up garbage bags to protect the carpet, but I still made plenty of grease and dirt spots. Just bought a big tarp for like $5 and i left no marks and it was easier. Goodluck.

Yep. I live in an apartment which is almoste completely carpeted. I was laying down newspaper and cut up garbage bags to protect the carpet, but I still made plenty of grease and dirt spots. Just bought a big tarp for like $5 and i left no marks and it was easier. Goodluck.

I have a house now... with a garage where I do most of my wrenching. I still use a tarp. It keeps things cleaner (concrete is porous too) and also allows me to "capture" dropped small items better. When I did live in an apartment, aside from the stains, I used to lose stuff in my carpet all the time. The tarp solved that.

yeah, I figured I'd get the carpet a little nasty (and I did drop something off the newspaper... that Oxyclean stuff works great!), but the carpet was already pretty gross anyway so I wasn't too worried. Except for that one thing I dropped it worked out surprisingly better than I thought it would. The greasiest stuff went in the ziplocs (also so I could keep the parts for various stuff together). Then I sprayed simple green right into the bags, swished it around a little, let it rest for a couple minutes, then kept filling the bag up with hot water until it was clear. Shiny things are nice.

So I cleaned everything up, got a new crankset (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3675013438&category=56193&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1) and cassette (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3675183156&category=42332&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1) , and just got Finish Line grease, Rock 'n' Roll Extreme chain lube, an SRAM PC58 chain, and new shifter cables today. While I was waiting for that stuff I polished and waxed the frame (hey, I was bored), and swapped my front and back brake pads (my rear pads were a little more worn that the front). Right now my wheels are at the LBS getting trued. So I'm almost there! :D

While I was getting ready to grease my bearings up, I wasn't sure how I would be able to get the grease in the cup surrounded by the freewheel, so I put my engineering degree to work and made a little grease gun. I guess I wouldn't exactly call it engineering, per se, since all I did was unscrew a pen and flip the ink catridge around, but hey, it's something. Worked pretty well too! Here's a pic:

Here's a picture of the handiwork (expected reaction: "Yup, those are greased bearings alright..."):

Good job! I like the makeshift greasegun.

I agree, I like the PEN-Grease-Gun!

I'm curious about your brake pads. You said your rear is MORE worn than the front. If so, you're doing it wrong. Like cars, motorcycles and any heavy machinery, you get better control and braking effectiveness by applying more front braking than rear.

This really helps on the trails. When descending into a turn, use more front brake. You'll enter the turn with more control and will slow faster. If you use more rear brake, you'll end up skidding out. If your tire is skidding, it's NOT braking, it's out of control. That and it causes more trail damage. Remember, "Leave NO trace", skids are traces left behind!

L8R

I'm curious about your brake pads. You said your rear is MORE worn than the front. If so, you're doing it wrong. Like cars, motorcycles and any heavy machinery, you get better control and braking effectiveness by applying more front braking than rear.

Yeah, for some reason I have an inherent fear of flipping over the handlebars if I really jam on that front brake, even though I have one of those whatchamacallits on my front brake cable that's supposed to help avoid an eat-dirt-endo. Anyway, I promise I'll use the front brake more when I get back on the trail. Here's a pic of that whatchamacallit:

Yeah, I'd rip that thing off my bike. It's hard to get proper feel when you've got a whatchamacallit affecting the lever feel.

L8r

Yeah, for some reason I have an inherent fear of flipping over the handlebars if I really jam on that front brake, even though I have one of those whatchamacallits on my front brake cable that's supposed to help avoid an eat-dirt-endo. Anyway, I promise I'll use the front brake more when I get back on the trail. Here's a pic of that whatchamacallit:

You know, I've never actually tried riding a bike with those modulator things. Do they really work? Can I be coming down a fireroad at full speed and grab a handful of brake without locking up or endoing? It seems like all they do is act as a heavy-sprung slack device to limit your braking effort. Seems to be more of a governer than anything else.

You know, I've never actually tried riding a bike with those modulator things. Do they really work? Can I be coming down a fireroad at full speed and grab a handful of brake without locking up or endoing? It seems like all they do is act as a heavy-sprung slack device to limit your braking effort. Seems to be more of a governer than anything else.

It definitely feels a lot softer than when pulling the rear brake. I think calling it a governer is pretty accurate, actually. Here's a link to the product (http://www.tektro.com/leisure/107.htm). It's marketed as "anti-lock," but you could still get the rear wheel off the ground with it on.

I might just take that thing off so I could get used to the actual feel of the brakes. They put that on my bike when I bought it because I think it was the first year the V-brakes came out (as standard equipment on bikes anyway), and a lot of people were finding out the hard way that v-brakes were a bit stronger than regular (caliper?) brakes.

Hey, can I blame my lesser front brake wear on that power modulator thing and not on my being a wuss?

Hey, can I blame my lesser front brake wear on that power modulator thing and not on my being a wuss?


Sure, but only you and God know the truth!

BTW, I do think you should abandon the device! You don't need it.

L8R

regular (caliper?) brakes.

If your talking MTB then you are probably thinking about cantilever brakes, or just "canti's".

If your talking MTB then you are probably thinking about cantilever brakes, or just "canti's".

yup! that's the one.