Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Question for the Long-Distance Gurus

Those of you who do a century-a-month, or 200-300 miles on the weekends -- do these seem like ordinary rides to you now, or do you still treat them with a certain amount of caution? In other words, do you still spend the first ~40 miles of a century telling yourself to take it easy and save energy for the last 60? Or are these just like any other ride -- are you able to do roughly the same effort for a full 100 miles as you would do for 60?

I've done 4 centuries now, including 2 self-supported. I'm usually a lot more sore and tired after these efforts than I would be after a 60-miler, even if I take it easy for the first hour or two. I'm hoping that will go away as I do more of them.

I've done about 140 centuries or longer rides now (I don't have the exact number in front of me), but I still treat them with a certain amount of caution in the sense that I pack for a variety of weather conditions and other situations, and I never take the rides for granted. Each one is different and there's never a guarantee that I will finish them.

But as for spending the first 40 miles of a century telling myself to take it easy ... no, I don't do that. I'm a very consistent rider. I'll do the same speed for a 40 mile ride that I do for a 60 mile ride that I do for a 200 mile ride.

This is where long steady distance comes in. Long steady distance is the fastest speed you can keep up for several hours. If, for example, you were to head out and ride 60 miles (or 80 miles or 100 miles) at 15 mph, but by the end of the 60 miles you're only doing 12 mph, 15 mph is not your long steady distance pace. However, if you were to head out and ride at 14 mph, and can maintain that pace and feel comfortable with it for the entire ride, then that is probably your long steady distance pace.

Once you find your long steady distance pace, you'll be able to do your centuries and longer rides at that pace, and although I won't guarantee you won't feel sore at the end, you'll have a better chance of not feeling completely wiped out.

I'll do the same speed for a 40 mile ride that I do for a 60 mile ride that I do for a 200 mile ride...


...Once you find your long steady distance pace, you'll be able to do your centuries and longer rides at that pace, and although I won't guarantee you won't feel sore at the end, you'll have a better chance of not feeling completely wiped out.

This is exactly it, IMO. I just got back into long distance riding last year, and it took me a few rides to find what my all-day pace, and my all-day nutrition requirements were. After a few 200k attempts where I burned out early or didn't eat/drink enough, or a combo of the two, I finally pinned down my specifics. What worked for 200k in the spring worked equally well for 200 miles by mid-summer.

i'm no LD guru - luckily machka has already chimed in!

but i did do about 12 doubles last year, and a full brevet series. after having done 400 & 600k's, a century (or double) ride is definitely a bit easier, but i still take them seriously.

although, doing the longer distances has made it so that what may be a "oh my god" ride to one person (say, the 150-mile RAMROD), is something that i happily rode to and from (76 extra miles). and even then, it was "only" a 360km day.

but, as greg le mond once said, "it never gets easier, you just go faster." maybe the LD version of that could be "it never gets easier, you just go farther."

I'm usually a lot more sore and tired after these efforts than I would be after a 60-miler, even if I take it easy for the first hour or two.

I've only done 8-9 rides over 100 miles. I think you need to back down on pace; a small adjustment is huge in the end. But the same holds true in other aspects. You might get relief from adjusting or changing your cleats, or saddle, getting new shorts or gloves. It got easier for me when I started paying attention to nutrition and hydration. I never thought I would have trouble eating and drinking enough, but it takes a serious focus to get it right on long rides, for me--worth the effort.

If you get every piece mostly right--fit/comfort, nutrition, pace, training, form--then it gets much easier, but not easy. I would always take the long rides seriously, especially if you want them to be easier at the end.

"it never gets easier, you just go farther."

+1, sort of. It does get a little easier, but it's never becomes really easy.

In my experience, you always have to accord a certain level of respect to any ride that requires you to spend more than 5 hours on a bike. That's enough time for a maladjusted fit to cause problems, for some misfortune with eating or hydration to hurt, or for some change in the weather to put you in varying levels of discomfort or peril.

No, it may not be as daunting, and when you get to the point where you're riding a full brevet series and riding a century every given weekend, a 100 miles might no longer feel like a once-in-a-lifetime achievement, but they never really become cakewalks.

From my current (fallow) perspective, where I've just started back to my weekly 100+ kilometre rides, marathon distances would be nothing to take for granted. I know I could take off from here and do a 200 without problems and so on ....

But I still work my way up gently and eschew jumping in from a layoff -- as some seem to do -- to anything above about 60km. For me, it's not worth risking injury, or even the knackered feeling that comes from "too much, too soon."

So, yes, I do take longer rides seriously -- seriously enough to work my way up to the season's brevets. Once you're ready for a 200 though, you should be able to progress through the rest of a series without too much trouble, with each event a s training for the next.

i guess the more you ride centuries the less intimidating they become and easier physically. i still prepare in the same way for each one however as preparation can make or break a ride (or at the minimum increase your comfort and enjoyment of the ride.

But I still work my way up gently and eschew jumping in from a layoff -- as some seem to do -- to anything above about 60km. For me, it's not worth risking injury, or even the knackered feeling that comes from "too much, too soon."

So, yes, I do take longer rides seriously -- seriously enough to work my way up to the season's brevets. Once you're ready for a 200 though, you should be able to progress through the rest of a series without too much trouble, with each event a s training for the next. I have my eye on travelling back to British Columbia to take part in Ken Bonner's Hare & Tortoise 1000, but since that's in the middle of June, and New England brevets don't really start until April, I won't have anything longer than a 300 under my belt for that season before starting the ride.

In a relatively abstract form, I believe that a 200 accomplishes most of the physical conditioning that one needs for longer brevets. The 300, 400 and 600 develop the skills and mental conditioning needed to endure longer distances, and these aspects don't fade as quickly as physical fitness. So, I figure, having done a 1200k two years ago, I should be ok with a 1000k this year so long as I have three or four 200 and 300k's in the months leading up to that.

But, this is the first time that I'm going through that sort of schedule, and it is still a little intimidating not having the 'gentle ramp' of a brevet series before plunging into a 1000k ride.

I just finished my 36th consecutive month of riding a 200K (or more) brevet or permanent. I think Machka put her finger on it with riding at your steady long distance pace. Of course, that pace can vary somewhat depending on things like whether you did a hard ride the day before, or if you're catching a cold, or whatever. I find that fueling needs can vary a lot with weather -- you need to eat more when it's cold, but that can be hard to do when everything is frozen and eating means pulling down your face mask and then trying to wash it down with frozen slushy gatorade. And in the summer, the heat often makes me feel a little nauseous so I just don't want to eat, even though I need to. Judging whether you're riding at that long distance pace can also be tricky if you're riding with friends who are faster, as it's easy to think you're doing OK, keeping up with them, right up until they drop you on a hill and you discover you're completely bonked and you spend the next hour or two trying to catch back up on your eating and get over that rubber-leg feeling.

Each ride brings its own challenges, nearly all of which can be overcome with a combination of mental toughness and (with any luck) the right clothes, food, &/or tools in your saddlebag. I just don't know how the go-superlight randonneurs do it, with just a tiny underseat bag and a few things stuffed in their pockets. They must be a lot tougher than me :-) For these winter rides, I've got a handlebar bag and a Carradice with quite a few extra clothes, as it is not unusual that as night falls, the clothes that were warm enough in the morning are no longer adequate, as they are damper, plus one's ability to regulate temperature goes down with fatigue.

There's hardly any ride where I just feel like I can go out with a blase approach. They always demand respect.

Thanks for your responses. I'm especially encouraged by Machka's comments about a steady pace for nearly any distance.

I have my eye on travelling back to British Columbia to take part in Ken Bonner's Hare & Tortoise 1000, but since that's in the middle of June, and New England brevets don't really start until April, I won't have anything longer than a 300 under my belt for that season before starting the ride.

We'll be glad to have you! As you probably know, the Vancouver Island spring brevets (http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/schedule/sch_vi.html)begin with our classic Tour of the Cowichan Valley, on April 11 and wrap up with the scenic and hilly "Pacific Rim 600, on May 30 -- 21 days before the Island 1000.

I agree that you should be OK if you have a few 200s and 300s in your legs, but make sure there's some climbing in the mix. The VI 1000 includes 30,000 feet of climbing, akin to PBP. North of Campbell River in particular is beautiful, wild and very lumpy.

At this point, I haven't decided whether to do this route that starts on my doorstep or go over to the Mainland for one of the 1000s there.

Note that this year, I've organized a complete Island summer series, with a new 600 route planned for July 25. It will be a loop route, re-entering Victoria at around 400k.

Speaking of summer series, the equally scenic and difficult "Tsunami" 300 will be a circle route this year (rather than out and back) and will be of special interest to 650b riders! Details to come.:speedy:

I just finished my 36th consecutive month of riding a 200K (or more) brevet or permanent.



CONGRATS!!! :thumb:
Well done!

When I was racing I normally had one or two days a week of training that were 100+ miles. At the time, they were just bike rides, and the strength of youth allowed carelessness. I remember once drafting a moped at thirty miles per hour for maybe twenty minutes, before I'd really even had a chance to warm up. The rest of the ride went just fine. (God, I miss those days.)

Last year I worked myself into enough shape that I did 100-125 miles each Saturday for several months in a row. In deference to moderately advancing age -- and a not-so-moderately advancing beer gut -- I did take the first half of those rides pretty easy. I usually do the local club run on Saturdays, and I used it as the first part of those longer rides, but instead of my usual habit of staying up front and playing with the racer boys, I was sitting back with the older folks and enjoying the scenery.

HTH!

I notice that the more long rides I do 100km-200km's plus the easier I find it is to listen and indentify what my body wants and needs quicker. i.e "maybe I should have eaten more at that control" instead of chasing down a couple of fast riders/ "salty foods would be good"
Or My equipemnt choices get more refined everytime I do a longer ride thus making the next one just a little easier.

Thanks for your responses. I'm especially encouraged by Machka's comments about a steady pace for nearly any distance.

+1

Could you gurus also please share your views on how to train the mental side of it, as in conditioning your mind that it (centuries, doubles, more...) is doable? I assume that part gets easier as well, but I would also assume (as has been hinted above) that a certain amount of caution and humility is necessary in this regard as well?

The legs training part I understand ("Just ride, stupid"), but I'm struggling with confidence/motivation.

I wouldn't put myself in a class with the gurus, but an easy trick for the Brevets I've ridden so far (nothing over 600K) is to mentally split the ride into sections between controls. That way you're not riding 400K (for example), you're riding 8 short rides of 50K each. Just concentrate on the next control. Also, I like to ride with others. There's a group of people in our club that are more fit than I, but I prefer to ride with them at their speed just because their company helps me enjoy the ride more. And that's what we're after, right? If you're riding along, enjoying the company of others, the motivation part kind of takes care of itself.

Steve

Those of you who do a century-a-month, or 200-300 miles on the weekends -- do these seem like ordinary rides to you now, or do you still treat them with a certain amount of caution?Whether or not a ride seems "ordinary" has to do with whether or not the ride conditions are the same for the ride every time you do it.

An amateur long distance rider, like yourself, mistakenly focuses too much attention on a single factor of a long ride - like distance" and concludes that if they are riding a certain distance, then the ride will produce a certain difficulty.

Well listen up - the longer the ride distance, the "less certain" that all the elements of any given LDX ride will be same, or "ordinary." Even when riding an identical route, changes in the wind or temperature can severely effect the effort required to finish.

Often, newbies, fail to understand the relationship of environment to any given ride and foolishly base their riding pace on previous experiences that bear little resemblance to their current predicament.


In other words, do you still spend the first ~40 miles of a century telling yourself to take it easy and save energy for the last 60? Or are these just like any other ride -- are you able to do roughly the same effort for a full 100 miles as you would do for 60?This question is another example of using "distance" as the only metric in deciding pace.

What you really need to be asking is ""How do I learn to "read the road?"" How do I know when to "go" and when to take it easy?

And that Grasshopper, is a question for another thread.........

Centuries and 200ks are short enough that I can go all out and "race" them. When I'm in condition, that is. I can do between 1 and 2 hours in my LT zone on a single ride, then I'm cooked. So spreading those efforts out with recovery between, 100-120 miles are doable in that style.

On longer rides, I limit my max HR, lowering that limit as the rides get longer. You have to know where your bonk limit is, and either finish the ride before that happens, or go slow enough that it never happens. If you're in shape for the effort, it's not so much a question of getting tired as it is being able to ride over the pain and deal with your nutrition and hydration so those don't become limiters.

Whether or not a ride seems "ordinary" has to do with whether or not the ride conditions are the same for the ride every time you do it.


True.

My century routes aren't that different in the roads they follow, but a century in winter is different to a century in spring to a century in high summer like we have now. A century on a fixed-gear bike will be different to the one on a geared bike. A century where I do shopping at the supermarket 25km before the finish is different to the one where I have an uninterrupted ride right through. A hilly century will be different from a flat century (not necessarily for speed, but I find comfort and boredom to be key issues on flat, straight rides)

Like everything in this world, it is a matter of getting out there and doing it. The more you ride centuries (even the more time you spend on the bike) the more you understand your bike fit, your bike, and your body. The more varied your environment, the more you understand how your personal needs change... important things like rehydration, refuelling and output.

Then rides of any length will become easier because you will have most of the bases covered. And you can push yourself a little further in meeting challenges that might otherwise have had you running for cover.

It's called experience.

A heart rate monitor is a good investment if you can't identify with the Borg scale of perceived physical effort. You can then work out what heart rate zones you need to use for particular types of riding and irrespective of environmental conditions, you can adjust your output to remain in those zones.

Whether or not a ride seems "ordinary" has to do with whether or not the ride conditions are the same for the ride every time you do it.

I agree with Cranium and Rowan on this one. Distance is just one factor. And it's a factor that matters a lot less the more experience you get.

I remember the first century I did very clearly. On a Fuji hard-tail mountain bike (with slicks, thankfully). I thought I was going to die. Everything hurt. I got home and immediately hit the couch to nap. Not even energy for a shower. Huge sense of accomplishment, though, and I was hooked!

Fast forward five years and almost two hundred centuries later.... Centuries generally aren't a big deal: The experience and wisdom you gain with each one lets you know how hard you can go under the condictions, what to eat and drink and when, and how to ride given the terrain, wind, humidity, heat, etc. so that you're as efficient as possible. BUT.... throw in some rough conditions, and a century or 200K can still be a total suffer-fest. One of the toughest rides I've ever done was a 200K in Oregon last winter. It was dead flat. But it was also 35F, pouring rain, and windy for the whole ride. Our little three-bike group had three flats among us. It took 13 hours to complete that ride and we suffered mightily. (That R-12 medal was well earned, though!)

Make some bad decisions about food or hydration, and a ride of a mere 100-miles (or a lot shorter) can turn into a death march. Go just a little too hard effort-wise, and you might be totally done. Wracked with cramps and a few hundred K left to go? Your ride could be over. Experience and wisdom are the keys to finding the limits of your own body and mind, as well as the tools and tricks that work best for you for conquering the distance. You gain some of both by just riding a lot. You gain more of each by riding with those more experienced and wise than you, listening to their stories, and generally doing what they do.

I really appreciate these last few posts, though I'm not completely inexperienced. For many of your warnings, I thought, "oh yeah -- been there, done that, didn't enjoy it." My usual long Sunday ride is in the 60-80 mile range. I'll go anytime the roads aren't icy. In this area we don't get much rain, but we do get our share of wind. (And it's never predictable. The best I can say about forecasts is, if they say it'll be 10mph out of the south, I expect 25-30mph from the north.)

I salute anyone who does a metric double in rainy, 35F conditions, though! After an hour or two of that, I'd probably fake an injury. ;)

I'm really encouraged by what Carbonfiberboy said: 2 hours near LT is a tempting goal. "Racing" a century? Hmm, maybe next year.

From what everyone has said here, it sounds like all I need to do this year is ramp up those long rides until I'm doing 100+ miles on my Sunday ride. Then maybe next year I can come back to this group and ask advice about 150-milers or (dare I say it) doubles. :twitchy:

Thinking back to my long distance days (350-450 miles a week training for racing) I took advantage of my location in the San Joaquin Valley: everywhere was uphill, so I could just hammer until I couldn't go anymore, then turn around and take it easy on the downhill home. I didn't worry about much but getting back before dark. If terrain and headwinds and so forth come into play, then there's more to worry about, as its no fun to bonk out in the middle of nowhere riding uphill in a headwind. I used to think how many days it would take me to walk home...

But as far as becoming fit, there always seemed to be a point in spring where I found a pace that I could just keep up for whatever distance. The only difference between 100 miles and 150 miles was how much food I would have to eat, so it was more an issue of keeping the fuel supply up than anything else. Also, once I'd find a pace it was an extra effort sometimes to break it - to push hard enough that I would need some good recovery time. At that plateau you don't get better without things like intervals which cut your miles down (and hurt!) but add to overall fitness and speed.

Those of you who do a century-a-month, or 200-300 miles on the weekends -- do these seem like ordinary rides to you now, or do you still treat them with a certain amount of caution?
I really am not in good enough shape right now to answer this question, but I will anyway. Back when I did a lot of miles, I could do a century and decide it wasn't long enough and go do a 15 mile side trip up a mountain. That was fun. Nowadays I seem to have issues with blood sugar, and prep would be more serious than filling up the water bottle and grabbing a couple of bananas.

One day I rode almost 250 miles, and that seemed to leave me feeling emotionally drained. There probably was some physiological reason for that. I'm sure nowadays it would leave me physically balled up in pain.

One organized century I went on was instructive. There were about 10 racers that went on it, and we either outpaced the support, or there was no support. That was never clear to me, for all I know we got lost while hammering away in a paceline. However, I wasn't prepared to ride a century unsupported, particularly not in a little over 4 hours. And it was cold, so eating was even more important. So I bonked with about a mile to go. I couldn't move, so I just went to sleep by the side of the road for about an hour. When I woke up, I limped to the finish and waited for my ride for another couple of hours.

I could do a century and decide it wasn't long enough and go do a 15 mile side trip up a mountain. You're not telling the whole story. If you were once able to ride so well - you must have amnesia as how you went about training up that level.

But your remarks -bring up another good point - many, many century rides "go wrong" when a rider pays more attention to a pace line than themselves.

You're not telling the whole story. If you were once able to ride so well - you must have amnesia as how you went about training up that level.I don't have amnesia about it, it was a lot of work. having a full time job wouldn't work with that much training. I also weighed about 40 pounds less than I do now.

I also weighed about 40 pounds less than I do now.Glad to hear you're so happy.